View Full Version : Spike Tacrical ST-T2 buffer
Before I knew better I got one of these:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSTU5035MOE&name=Spikes+Tactical+16%22+Mid-Length+5.56%2f.223+Upper+Receiver&groupid=55
My concern ar this point is the buffer. Functionally it works, but for long term if there a disadvantage to using the ST-T2 buffer vs a standard h-buffer?
You will likely never have an issue that will be traced back to using the ST-T2 buffer. However, it has been proven that a traditional H2 works as well or better. The tungsten powder buffers are more marketing than they are an improvement on anything. They can also vary widely in actual weight. I picked up one from AIM a while back that was sold as a Daniel Defense product. It was obviously a T2 without the Spikes logo. Makes me wonder what else Spikes sells with their name on it that is actually made by DD and why DD had this single allotment of buffers to sell? I've never seen a DD packaged one since. I pulled it out of my rifle and went back to a traditional buffer from BCM because I did not notice any improvement in recoil characteristics.
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Ok thanks. I only have a Spikes (came with my upper) or standard carbine buffer (came with my stock kit). Just want to make sure I'm "safe" and "reliable"
I also have an ST-T2 from Spike's and also one from PWS. The face of the buffer has the PWS logo and the body says "PWS-T2". So that's 3 different ones now. Spike's, DD, and PWS. I used it (PWS) in my new build a few days ago and ran a variety of ammo through it without any problems through the carbine length gas system.
Did I notice an improvement? Hell I can't tell. Then again the FSC556 was doing it's magic. It functioned fine with all my ammo so I'm just going to leave it alone. When I start my midlength build, I'll start experimenting with different buffer weights. But I agree, I don't see any long term disadvantages with the ST-T2 over an H. You just have to cycle plenty of different ammo through it for reliability.
My "break-in" ammo the other day (200 rds total):
55gr PPU (M193), Wolf Classic, PMC, Fed value box
Setup:
Tactical Springs (Blue) buffer spring, JP Full Mass carrier, JP Enhanced Bolt, DD 14.5" LW barrel w/ PWS FSC556, PWS-T2 buffer
Weights from my postal scale:
PWS-T2 = 4.1 oz
ST-T2 = 4.2 oz
Before I knew better I got one of these:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSTU5035MOE&name=Spikes+Tactical+16%22+Mid-Length+5.56%2f.223+Upper+Receiver&groupid=55
I've read plenty of Spikes threads on here, and they all get shutdown in no time at all, but my question is, I've read the specs on this particular upper the OP listed, and the specs on BCM, and I see no technical difference in specifications whatsoever. It's very clear that the people on this site prefer the BCM, and in all honesty if I was on the market for a new upper, I'd get a BCM simply because of the amounts of testing that have been done with BCM. Are we being to quick to knock on the Spikes LE upper, when it seems no one here has even tested it with several thousand rounds? And if that's the case, then no one here has the right to say that it is, or is not a top tier upper, because judging solely on the specifications this Spikes upper in clearly top tier, as compared to a BCM. As the OP wrote "Before I knew better I got one of these" as far as specifications are concerned, you got a upper that is just as good as your standard BCM, LMT ect.
Palmetto State Armory also markets one. I have one of
theirs and one from Daniel Defense.
Mr. Goodtimes
03-21-11, 23:23
It was obviously a T2 without the Spikes logo. Makes me wonder what else Spikes sells with their name on it that is actually made by DD
Back when DD first started making rifles spikes had a bunch of DD uppers with the omega x rails on spikes tactical lowers.
I've read plenty of Spikes threads on here, and they all get shutdown in no time at all, but my question is, I've read the specs on this particular upper the OP listed, and the specs on BCM, and I see no technical difference in specifications whatsoever. It's very clear that the people on this site prefer the BCM, and in all honesty if I was on the market for a new upper, I'd get a BCM simply because of the amounts of testing that have been done with BCM. Are we being to quick to knock on the Spikes LE upper, when it seems no one here has even tested it with several thousand rounds? And if that's the case, then no one here has the right to say that it is, or is not a top tier upper, because judging solely on the specifications this Spikes upper in clearly top tier, as compared to a BCM. As the OP wrote "Before I knew better I got one of these" as far as specifications are concerned, you got a upper that is just as good as your standard BCM, LMT ect.
No one has knocked spikes in this thread. The only reason spike's threads go downhill around here are because of posts like this.
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El Pistolero
03-22-11, 08:04
I don't know anything about Spike's but I have to agree with rezin23, I see A LOT of similarity in the specs between Spikes and BCM and I'm curious why they get a bad rap. I know from another thread that Spikes is one of those brands that attracts more morons to the AR world but if we can get past that and look at the actual hardware and not the typical users I'd like to know what makes them different performance-wise than a BCM or DD.
Just for the record I don't own a Spikes, I own a BCM and would buy them again every time based on my experience with them, their prices and quality, and their reputation. But I don't know anything about Spikes so I'm curious to learn the hard facts about their uppers and how they rank against proven performers like BCM/Colt/DD.
For what it's worth, to the OP's topic; my ST-T2 functions fine, I've seen a perceived difference in recoil and reliability has been good. Good products (& service) to date from the Spike's folks in my experience.
I've read plenty of Spikes threads on here, and they all get shutdown in no time at all, but my question is, I've read the specs on this particular upper the OP listed, and the specs on BCM, and I see no technical difference in specifications whatsoever.
The problem is that BCMs specs check out.
Can we please not let this devolve into another Spikes trainwreck thread? The OP asked specifically about the T2 buffer. There has been plenty of discussion about their uppers, both good & bad. The search button is your friend.
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To the OP's original question, there is nothing wrong with using the T2 buffer. However, it isn't a revolutionary wonder-buffer, as some fans and marketing would have you beleive. It works almost as well as an H2. Cost is similar also. IMHO, if its what came with your upper, use it, it will be fine. On the other hand, if I were building a rifle and had to pick one or the other, I would go with an H2 from BCM or another reliable source. 87GN had some high speed videos a while back that showed a greater amount of bolt bounce with the T2 than with the H2.
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I have a couple of the T2 buffers and have never had an issue with them. They work well so I see no need to replace them. Spikes makes good stuff!
Before I knew better I got one of these:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSTU5035MOE&name=Spikes+Tactical+16%22+Mid-Length+5.56%2f.223+Upper+Receiver&groupid=55
My concern ar this point is the buffer. Functionally it works, but for long term if there a disadvantage to using the ST-T2 buffer vs a standard h-buffer?
There's no real disadvantage, and there won't be any long term issues as a result of using one. There is no real advantage either...in fact some would say the Tungsten powder is not as effective as the traditional weights; the video clip that around sort of shows this...but it could just simply be to do with the weight of it.
FWIW, I have one of these buffers (in Daniel Defense drag)....in usage it feels exactly like a H buffer I also have. As has been mentioned, I have also heard that there is a degree of variance with the weight of them - as a rule, it sounds like it is more of a "H1.5 to H1.75" than a H2 weight.
It's not something I go out and purposely buy, but if you have one (as I do), no harm in using it.
Nightvisionary
03-22-11, 11:11
I've read plenty of Spikes threads on here, and they all get shutdown in no time at all, but my question is, I've read the specs on this particular upper the OP listed, and the specs on BCM, and I see no technical difference in specifications whatsoever. It's very clear that the people on this site prefer the BCM, and in all honesty if I was on the market for a new upper, I'd get a BCM simply because of the amounts of testing that have been done with BCM. Are we being to quick to knock on the Spikes LE upper, when it seems no one here has even tested it with several thousand rounds? And if that's the case, then no one here has the right to say that it is, or is not a top tier upper, because judging solely on the specifications this Spikes upper in clearly top tier, as compared to a BCM. As the OP wrote "Before I knew better I got one of these" as far as specifications are concerned, you got a upper that is just as good as your standard BCM, LMT ect.
Exactly. There are a metric ton of talking heads here and elsewhere that just parrot what someone else heard. Pretty soon you have nothing more than an internet aviary with a bunch of fowl squawking the same thing over and over.
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
I have been around these forums since the mid 90's so I know how this happens. I remember back when Bushmaster was the flavor of the day.
When I was in the market for a new AR I did a whole lot of research. I was looking seriously at the Colt 6920 and BCM. Then I looked at the actual user reviews of the Spikes Tactical carbine. That peaked my interest in Spikes so I read through the testing and spec data Spikes provided online for their rifles. It pretty much mirrors BCM and many of the other companies that keep close to milspec.
I shoot every single week, sometimes twice a week. I have logged over 3k rounds through the rifle since November with minimal cleaning. I have not experienced one single malfunction, jam, or broken part. I have owned Bushmaster, Armalite, and Colt AR's. I judge the Spikes rifle to be every bit as reliable as the Colt's I have owned or used.
There are some who have a grudge against Spikes for raising the price of lowers in November 08. This is what I believe originally fueled most of the Spikes detractors. I don't have time for grudges. I purchase whatever will give me the most value and reliability for my dollar and my Spike's rifle has functioned perfectly.
The problem is that BCMs specs check out.
And Spikes don't? And not to be confrontational, but show me the proof that BCM's specs check out, or that Spikes don't. I'm not here to start a philosophical war, I want to know facts and nothing else, I want to see charts and numbers, I don't want to see opinion or speculation. I'm a Noveske man myself, but I had actually looked at that exact Spikes upper when I was trying to put a solid budget build for my brother. I ended up going with a BCM for him, but Im afraid I did so purely based on speculation of it being better than the Spikes, rather than proven fact.
Guys Im not interested in a pro spikes crusade. Im just acknowledging the sentiment on the forum right or wrong. I have no interest in replacing the upper for a new roll mark. I just want to know if the buffer is reliable and functional as reading a comment from a Mod on another thread to "Toss the ST-T2"
I was just playing to the sentiment that is common here. Its not worth the effort to start a argument. Fanboys will be fanboys.
Ive got the double whammy of spikes upper and bushmaster lower.,,im suprised im even allowed to post. However my time is better spent at the range anyway.
Guys Im not interested in a pro spikes crusade. Im just acknowledging the sentiment on the forum right or wrong. I have no interest in replacing the upper for a new roll mark. I just want to know if the buffer is reliable and functional as reading a comment from a Mod on another thread to "Toss the ST-T2"
I was just playing to the sentiment that is common here. Its not worth the effort to start a argument. Fanboys will be fanboys.
Ive got the double whammy of spikes upper and bushmaster lower.,,im suprised im even allowed to post. However my time is better spent at the range anyway.
The only thing I didn't see in the specs you linked to, was HP testing on every barrel. Without HP, the MP testing touted in the specs doesn't have much merit. Other than that, it sounds like you have a pretty squared away rifle. Keep in mind that the specific barrel steel and testing may or may not be up to "spec", so some will always consider it inferior to Colt, BCM, etc. So what?
If you're happy with it and it has proven reliable enough for your needs, not much else matters. Enjoy it, shoot the crap out of it and don't worry about the rest. Peoples feelings about Spikes and the T2 have more to do with how the company operates and how their fans always seem to be ready for a fight, than anything else. Beyond that, I'll keep my personal opinions on Spikes and to myself.
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christcorp
03-22-11, 13:19
Guys Im not interested in a pro spikes crusade. Im just acknowledging the sentiment on the forum right or wrong. I have no interest in replacing the upper for a new roll mark. I just want to know if the buffer is reliable and functional as reading a comment from a Mod on another thread to "Toss the ST-T2"
I was just playing to the sentiment that is common here. Its not worth the effort to start a argument. Fanboys will be fanboys.
Ive got the double whammy of spikes upper and bushmaster lower.,,im suprised im even allowed to post. However my time is better spent at the range anyway.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with the ST-T2 buffer. I like mine better than the carbine and the "H" buffer. I didn't want to go to the "H2" because i shoot mainly steel case russian ammo. I didn't want a buffer that was too heavy and possibly causing short stroking. Plus; I don't consider the tungsten powder to by Hype. I honestly believe that it smooths out the recoil.
Mr. Goodtimes
03-22-11, 15:09
EDIT: According to Spikes CEO (Tom Miller) on TOS Spikes Tactical makes the Daniel Defense T2 buffer for DD.
EDIT: According to Spikes CEO (Tom Miller) on TOS Spikes Tactical makes the Daniel Defense T2 buffer for DD.
Interesting. I suppose they make them for PSA also? Does DD still offer these? I only saw them available once from AIM.
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