View Full Version : Battle Comp on a bolt gun?
I searched BABC, but could only find people putting them on semi's. Would there be any benefit to putting one on a bolt gun? If I could keep the rifle from jumping and having to re-set every shot that would be nice. If I could avoid the typical noise/dust/flash of a traditional brake/comp, that would be even better. Any thoughts? Anyone tried it? What (if any) effect on POI or accuracy due to harmonics/gas velocity?
Thanks!
I think it's a great idea. I see plenty of brakes at snipershide and longdistancehunting: just a few with FSC30s recently. Logically bolt guys trail semis in this regard, so I wouldn't doubt BABC will be seen within a few years, but in very low numbers. If I had $300 doing nothing for the thread and BABC, I would. But first I'd cut the barrel to 18 or 20...So please do it and let us know!
It would work. I've been looking at my Remington 40x wondering how it would work with a BABC
im sorry, i am not familure with this term.. could someone please further explain to me what this is? i am a fast learner, it doesnt need to be to in depth.
In my opinion it wouldn't make sense. The Battlecomp keeps the muzzle flat, but the recoil is a straight back push.
Thus it's good for faster follow up shots... you don't have rapid fire on a bolt gun.
im sorry, i am not familure with this term.. could someone please further explain to me what this is? i am a fast learner, it doesnt need to be to in depth.
BABC = Big Assed Battle Comp. It is the 7.62 version of the Batttle Comp. If you don't know what a Battle Comp is, click their link (BCE) in the banner as they are a site sponsor.
In my opinion it wouldn't make sense. The Battlecomp keeps the muzzle flat, but the recoil is a straight back push.
Thus it's good for faster follow up shots... you don't have rapid fire on a bolt gun.
This is a very good point. Furthermore, to help talk myself out of this, you have to operate the action, which changes your shooting position anyway.
being a huge proponent of the battlecomp, i would not put one on a bolt gun. the battlecomp does not reduce recoil, it just reduces muzzle rise- great for rapid firing, as somebody else said, but doesn't help you on the bench. there are some great brakes designed specifically for what you're talking about.
To clarify, I'm not trying to reduce recoil because the gun hurts or anything. It's purely an attempt to self-spot (ie, see my bullet's impact through my scope) Currently, my rifle is too light, and it jumps a bit. The SJC (Titan) guys are right upstairs, and I could probably get them to make me one for it. Would that be a good choice? I shy away from a silencer for this gun as I don't want to deal with the velocity (and corresponding POI) changes. From a "practical" standpoint, do you worry about muzzle flash/dust signature on a bolt gun?
sandsunsurf
03-25-11, 11:58
Why shy away from a silencer? A can was the best thing that ever happened to my Rem 700 LTR in .223. Took it from being an ammo picky, barely 1 MOA gun to a 1/3MOA or better gun. And it reduced muzzle rise and movement to nearly zero. Not to mention the obvious benefit of shooting it without ear pro.
oh ok i understand now, just didnt know the acrnm. i agree, a can imo would be the better choice for a bolt gun, for all the obvious reasons, but, in areas where people cannot own them, or afford them, i think the comp is a very applicable idea, for self spotting, and maybe reduced felt recoil and muzzle jump.
question- what are the laws pertaining to hunting while using a can? are you allowed to use a can while hunting deer, elk, big game, varmint, ect. ect.? i am just going off the assumption here that you wouldnt be allowed to use a can while hunting, as it could be an unfair advantage and unsportsman-like; for example if you did happen to miss, and you have a can on, the likelyhood that the animal would be scared off from the sound of the shot vs if you were not using a can is slim, imo kind of cheating.
oh ok i understand now, just didnt know the acrnm. i agree, a can imo would be the better choice for a bolt gun, for all the obvious reasons, but, in areas where people cannot own them, or afford them, i think the comp is a very applicable idea, for self spotting, and maybe reduced felt recoil and muzzle jump.
question- what are the laws pertaining to hunting while using a can? are you allowed to use a can while hunting deer, elk, big game, varmint, ect. ect.? i am just going off the assumption here that you wouldnt be allowed to use a can while hunting, as it could be an unfair advantage and unsportsman-like; for example if you did happen to miss, and you have a can on, the likelyhood that the animal would be scared off from the sound of the shot vs if you were not using a can is slim, imo kind of cheating.
every state is different, on hunting laws. i'm aware of no federal laws that address NFA and hunting at all, unless it's an enhancer for federal poaching violations or something (and im still not even aware of any).
as to the battlecomp... if you're trying to keep the muzzle down, and "self spot," as you say... i'm still not entirely convinced the BC is the best device, but it will certainly work. if standing, depending on your setup, it might even push your muzzle down a little.. but proned out or otherwise supported, you'll probably achieve what you're looking for.
Theoretically a crown cut barrel is the best in terms of accuracy. The gases escaping after the bullet are travelling faster than the bullet, introducing turbulence can change the pressure in various parts of the escaping cloud. Attaching/cutting anything to the barrel can also change how it operates for better or worse, there's no way to tell until you do it, if you look at barrels as a consumable that you eventually swap though...
Muzzle rise is actually more complicated than just what's coming out the front of the gun. Changing your grip and contact points with the stock will change how it moves without resorting to cutting expensive barrels >.>
Not trying to blow up the idea, just providing alternatives. VAIS brakes are pretty popular for the .300 win-mag crowd but I've never had a need for one on a bolt gun.
sandsunsurf
03-25-11, 21:40
Theoretically a crown cut barrel is the best in terms of accuracy. The gases escaping after the bullet are travelling faster than the bullet, introducing turbulence can change the pressure in various parts of the escaping cloud. Attaching/cutting anything to the barrel can also change how it operates for better or worse, there's no way to tell until you do it, if you look at barrels as a consumable that you eventually swap though...
While true, there are many shooters that have reported increased accuracy with the addition of a silencer. One theory is based upon just what you said- hot gases exiting faster create turbulence and force on the bullet, and by controlling and/or containing those gases, a silencer can give an increase in accuracy. Also, as you noted, adding anything to the barrel changes performance and harmonics. Sometimes the different harmonics can luckily increase accuracy.
gotta love basic highschool physics. i remember learning about harmonics. was very interesting, i really enjoyed that lesson. glad im not taking it in college now... wouldnt be able to keep up.. lol:suicide2:
PRGGodfather
03-26-11, 13:59
In my opinion it wouldn't make sense. The Battlecomp keeps the muzzle flat, but the recoil is a straight back push.
Thus it's good for faster follow up shots... you don't have rapid fire on a bolt gun.
Agreed 110%. Still, we get the question all the time.
Rather than start a new thread, I'll bring this one back up...
Any new thinking on this, and/or has anyone done any more deliberate work or comparison with a BC on a bolt gun? I've had occasion to consider suppression of muzzle rise on a 16-18" sport-utility bolt. A can is not an option in the application.
QuietShootr
11-29-11, 21:29
I would never put a brake on a rifle that might ever be fired with no hearing protection. Especially a 16" .308.
Robb Jensen
11-29-11, 21:46
I'm a crazy bastard I guess. I have a Battlecomp BABC on my Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/RugerScout.jpg
It reduces recoil quite a bit and has at least 50% less muzzle rise.
If you rock a Ruger, by all means!! :p
I'm a crazy bastard I guess. I have a Battlecomp BABC on my Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle....
It reduces recoil quite a bit and has at least 50% less muzzle rise.
Right on target, thanks. Can you quantify, even approximately, the recoil reduction?
Alaskapopo
11-30-11, 02:24
In my opinion it wouldn't make sense. The Battlecomp keeps the muzzle flat, but the recoil is a straight back push.
Thus it's good for faster follow up shots... you don't have rapid fire on a bolt gun.
I have thought about a comp for my 700 only because I like to see my bullets hit the targets like rocks and water bottles and what not. There is just enough muzzle jump that I can't see what happens. With my Larue Stealth with a Titan brake I can see the targets reaction its a blast.
Pat
Robb Jensen
11-30-11, 04:12
Right on target, thanks. Can you quantify, even approximately, the recoil reduction?
Shot side by side my buddies stock flash hider on his Ruger Gunsite Scout I'd say 35-40% less rearward recoil. Using the same ammo (Federal Fusion 180gr .308Win).
I have thought about a comp for my 700 only because I like to see my bullets hit the targets like rocks and water bottles and what not. There is just enough muzzle jump that I can't see what happens. With my Larue Stealth with a Titan brake I can see the targets reaction its a blast.
Pat
Shoot farther out. ;) Beyond 500 you can spot your own shots!
A battle comp on a Bolt gun is as wrong as a man going to a Twilight movie! :p
Anchor Zero Six
11-30-11, 10:27
This is a very good point. Furthermore, to help talk myself out of this, you have to operate the action, which changes your shooting position anyway.
Your position should not change, if it is you need to practice dry firing untill it dosnt.
As for the BC idea, I think its the best thing since sliced bread for gas guns but there are better options for a precision bolt gun.
Running an SAS brake/mount on a 20" 300 WM and perceived recoil is less than most heavy 308's. Ops Inc, Badger and APA also make very effective brakes.
I would like to hear Robb J's thinking on why to choose the BC for a boltie. What is the value in negating muzzle rise when you have to cycle manually anyhow? I can understand it not being as loud as a pure brake.
What is the value in negating muzzle rise when you have to cycle manually anyhow?
I don't quite understand where this is coming from. If you are breaking your cheek-weld to throw the bolt, you are wrong. Simple as that. Eliminating recoil in any direction aids in maintaining a solid shooting position. This is especially important in precision rifle shooting. MUCH more so than a range commando running and gunning on refrigerators at the local garbage hole.
I am curious as to how the BC performs better for a bolt action than a pure brake. Semi-autos are for fridges.
I have thought about a comp for my 700 only because I like to see my bullets hit the targets like rocks and water bottles and what not. There is just enough muzzle jump that I can't see what happens. With my Larue Stealth with a Titan brake I can see the targets reaction its a blast.
Pat
Not being able to see your impact on the target is a result of bad body position. When properly setup behind the gun, recoil will go straight back and the muzzle will barely move. The jump most bolties know and sometimes refer to it as the bipod hop is very common and not necessarily easy to get rid off. For righties the muzzle will go left and for lefties it will go right. It's takes a while to learn that perfect position, specially if you're not use to it, but once you learn it, it's a thing of beauty. Not to digress though, but it's also very important to bve able to see your hit's for self correction and follow on shots to the target.
I agree with orkan, I fail to see the benefit of the BC on a bolt gun, IMO it's just not designed for that type of shooting. If you want something that will change the way the gun drives and minimizes recoil get a suppressor. This will change the characteristics of recoil and allow one to drive the gun better.
Orkan is also absolutely correct when he said that if you're breaking your cheekweld while running the bolt you're wrong. Once you're head is on that stock it should stay there, period. One needs to be able to run the bolt, load, unload and press check the rifle all with your head on the stock and your eyes down range on the target.
R.
Anchor Zero Six
11-30-11, 13:51
I am curious as to how the BC performs better for a bolt action than a pure brake. Semi-autos are for fridges.
Simply put it dosnt.
The Battle comp is great for its intended application (gas guns) as it greatly reduces recoil and produces significantly less flash than other brakes. But putting side by side against a multi chambered brake its gonna loose in recoil reduction comparison. How fast and how much gas can be redirected is what makes an effective brake. The BC is fairly constrictive in this regards as compared to an open chamber design.
I think RJ's scout idea is brilliant for that application as its on a rifle that I assume will see more offhand shooting than prone. It keeps the lines clean, its small and lightweight all of which are tennants of the scout rifle.
For reference this is what I mean by an open chamber brake and its on a 20" 300WM that weighs under 13lbs as it sits. Recoil is comparable to a soft shooting 308.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff193/AnchorStation/DSC00910.jpg
That is what I was guessing--thanks AZ6--and thanks for that excellent photo.
I'm a crazy bastard I guess. I have a Battlecomp BABC on my Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/RugerScout.jpg
It reduces recoil quite a bit and has at least 50% less muzzle rise.
Robb, two things:
1) That looks totally sick, I want one... and I don't remember the last time I wanted something Ruger made.
2) Do the die-hard scout guys give you crap about your optic positioning? ;)
Your position should not change, if it is you need to practice dry firing untill it dosnt.
I don't quite understand where this is coming from. If you are breaking your cheek-weld to throw the bolt, you are wrong. Simple as that.
Just this afternoon, I stood behind a exceedingly capable sharpshooter as he worked a target array, taking in his technique. His bolt operation was faaaast, smooth, and was without apparent impact on any other aspect of his shooting.
Thanks for the other input in this thread.
I like comps on any rifle that recoils more than a 22 L.R. I hate recoil. One of my buds has a 338 Lapua and with the brake the recoil seems way less than a 308.
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