Working the AR Safety

[darr3239]

First off, I have hands that are about a close to being perfectly average in size as they make them.

I attended a Carbine course and had some issues with working the safety quickly. I realize a slight change of the grip is usually necessary to put the safety from fire to safe. My issue was moving the safety from the safe to the fire position.

I tried tilting the gun to the left, I'm right handed, and it seemed to help. None the less, after two days I never obtained what I would call a quick release of the safety.

I used a Magpul MOE grip, which I really like the feel of while firing. Don't know if I need to try another grip or what. Anyone else had this same issue? I'd appreciate any helpful advice and thanks in advance.

[Iraqgunz]

My hands are probably about average or slightly above. I have no issues at all, but I have been shooting the AR for 24 years.

I have Tango Down pistol grips on my AR's and like them. Maybe that will work?

Or just do some continuous practice.


First off, I have hands that are about a close to being perfectly average in size as they make them.

I attended a Carbine course and had some issues with working the safety quickly. I realize a slight change of the grip is usually necessary to put the safety from fire to safe. My issue was moving the safety from the safe to the fire position.

I tried tilting the gun to the left, I'm right handed, and it seemed to help. None the less, after two days I never obtained what I would call a quick release of the safety.

I used a Magpul MOE grip, which I really like the feel of while firing. Don't know if I need to try another grip or what. Anyone else had this same issue? I'd appreciate any helpful advice and thanks in advance.

[Joe R.]

Darr, if I'm not mistaken the MOE has a slight palm swell in the rear of the grip that travels up the rear of the lower receiver. This moves your hand away from the selector a bit. Try a grip that does not have this (like the Tango Down, or even a GI grip) and see if it allows you a bit more purchase on the selector.

[Appalachian]

Safety on SAFE, firing thumb on top of the selector, trigger finger straight and off the trigger. Rotate it down to FIRE. Are you keeping your firing side thumb on top of the safety when it is on SAFE? Other than that...I dunno. SHouldn't have to adjust a whole lot to go from S to F. Maybe a Tango Down would help (they are a great grip for those of us with average size paws).

[stifled]

It sounds like a smaller or differently-shaped grip may be in order.

[Watrdawg]

I have an Ergo grip on my weapon and I also have small hands. What I have found that works great for me is to use my trigger finger to manipulate the safety. Here is how I do it. Of course my trigger finger is out of the trigger well and laying flat just below the dust cover. For me it is also laying over the safety. I just run my finger either forward or back to move my safety into and out of safe/fire mode. I tried using my thumb but with small hand I had trouble consistantly reaching the safety without having to adjust my grip on the weapon.

[Duffy]

The 90 degree arrangement pretty much dictates that the user shift his grips when setting the weapon back on Safe.

There are couple of ways to deal with it:

1. Ambidextrous selector, where you use the trigger side lever to safe the weapon.

2. A 45 degree selector, you can use the tip of your thumb to safe the weapon.

A different grip doesn't change the awkwardness of the the long travel on a 90 degree selector. People that have been shooting ARs for a long time can get pretty good and fast with it, but it does require you to shift your grips.

Check out this video we took with the 45 degree selector in live fire, you'll notice that the shooter's grip never changed while flicking the weapon from Safe to Semi, and Semi to Safe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRkmt3Hhu0Y

[markm]

Darr, if I'm not mistaken the MOE has a slight palm swell in the rear of the grip that travels up the rear of the lower receiver.

Yep. Get rid of it and put the damned A2 grip back on. :mad:

[3 AE]

I have an Ergo grip on my weapon and I also have small hands. What I have found that works great for me is to use my trigger finger to manipulate the safety. Here is how I do it. Of course my trigger finger is out of the trigger well and laying flat just below the dust cover. For me it is also laying over the safety. I just run my finger either forward or back to move my safety into and out of safe/fire mode. I tried using my thumb but with small hand I had trouble consistantly reaching the safety without having to adjust my grip on the weapon. Do you have an "ambi" selector lever and didn't mention it in your post? I can't picture your description of your method. I shoot lefty and use my forefinger to manipulate the selector lever like you described. When I switch over to my right hand on the pistol grip,I manipulate the selector with my thumb with no problems.I have very small hands with a standard A-2 grip.Going from "Safe" to "Fire" should be very easy for a right hander. Does the OP have a thumb injury or something like arthritis? :confused:

[kwelz]

I agree with the experts on this one. Get a smaller grip.
I see a lot of people show up to their first class with a MOE or MIAD grip. The ones that come back to another class almost always have exchanged that for a Tango Down BG16.

[darr3239]

Thanks for all the info. guys. I don't have an ambi-selector, no arthritis or other physical issues.

It seemed it was just the last little bit of travel to get it to the fire position was sometimes an issue. I never failed to get it on fire, just had to concentrate to get it all the way down. That 45 degree safety would obviously knock out that issue.

I'll work on it a little more, and if that doesn't solve it I'll go with another grip. It was just a weird experience that didn't happen every time.

[BSmith]

I have the same problem and it seems like a 45* lever would do it for me.

[ALCOAR]

I bet a million bucks that the 45 throw selector from BAD would make the OP 's problem of breaking grip to actuate the selector not only go away, but he/she should then would be able to actuate faster than a normal person using a traditional 90 throw.

Kinda why it's a game changer....it's cures a huge problem for some folks and while doing so totally refines the AR selector and thereby making the actuation much more smooth and faster over the 90 selector...even BAD's 90 degree ambi.

One day everyone will see the light on this one, it's a no brainier if you ever even flick it just once.

[4thPointOfContact]

In terms of 45-degree selector levers, the Battle Arms Development (http://battlearmsdevelopment.com/badass.php) does it for me. I believe you have to contact them personally to request a 45-degree selector (for liability reasons), but they will accommodate the request without problem.
http://battlearmsdevelopment.com/photos/badass/BAD-Ambi%20Safety%20Specs.jpg

[The Cat]

Like you fellows, I don't have any trouble getting mine from 'safe' to 'fire', but 'fire' to 'safe' isn't quite as easy.

I like the RRA Acorn safety. It seems to make things a bit easier.

[jonconsiglio]

I attended a Carbine course and had some issues with working the safety quickly. I realize a slight change of the grip is usually necessary to put the safety from fire to safe.

What did the instructor(s) have to say about this? My wife has small hands and she has absolutely no problem with it, so I'm trying to see what the problem is.

I would think that if you had trouble during a class, it would be the perfect time to resolve the issue by talking to the instructors. I'm sure a smaller grip will help like the A2, MIAD or Tango Down.

The 45º selector is nice from what I've seen, but may not be for everyone and I don't know that I'd recommend something like that as a "fix". I think the fix needs to come from you. I have a couple Bad-ASS selectors and they're great, not to mention Charlie's (damn, I hope that's his name!) AWESOME customer service.

*EDIT - Now, I can't remember who I spoke to, maybe it was Roger, not Charlie. He sent me a new barrel last week after a 30 minute phone discussion and it fixed the very slight issue I had, which was a personal thing at that. I wasn't even calling to ask for anything, I just wanted to know if what was going on was common and what they might recommend over what i already did to fix it. Absolutely great service.

I hope you get it all worked out buddy. Good luck.

Jonathan

[SteveL]

In terms of 45-degree selector levers, the Battle Arms Development (http://battlearmsdevelopment.com/badass.php) does it for me. I believe you have to contact them personally to request a 45-degree selector (for liability reasons), but they will accommodate the request without problem.


There's nothing special required to purchase a 45° safety from BAD. Just go here and buy it:

http://shop.battlearmsdevelopment.com/BAD-ASS-ST-AMBI-SAFETY-SELECTOR-SHORT-THROW-45-BAD-ASS-ST.htm

You do however, have to make a small modification (which voids the warranty) to install one in a standard lower receiver. You can read about that here:

http://op4guy.blogspot.com/2011/01/part-two-battle-arms-45-short-throw-st.html

You can contact Duffy for information on lowers that are compatible with the BAD ASS-ST with no modification.

And I should note that you'll be hard pressed to ever find better customer service than you'll get from Roger (Duffy).

[RichDC2]

i have the battle arms 90 degree set up on all my ar's standard on left side and hybrid on right side. these things are the greatest thing since slice bread! i like the fact that my trigger finger moves out of the guard to manipulate the safety with the side of my finger. very easy and quick

[evolixsurf]

I took a dremel to my grip and make the back of it die right into the curved section of my receiver. My instructor said that the higher up on the grip you can get, the better handle you can get on the gun for accuracy. Im loving it. Youll notice that its like that already with the regular ergo grips, a2 grips and the larue or tango down grips.

[Hmac]

i have the battle arms 90 degree set up on all my ar's standard on left side and hybrid on right side. these things are the greatest thing since slice bread! i like the fact that my trigger finger moves out of the guard to manipulate the safety with the side of my finger. very easy and quick

I agree. 90 degrees works fine for me, but the ambidextrous-ness of the BAD lever makes going from FIRE to SAFE with my trigger finger on the right side of the receiver much easier than using the back of my thumb to do it on the left side.

[Duffy]

Thank you gents for your kind words :)

Without sounding like we're trying to pimp our product (the 45 degree short throw), the short throw selector is what we think it should have been all along.

Many platforms from decades ago have been using this arrangement, we never did find out why Gene Stoner went to a 90 degree, we can guess but can't back up our theories.

HK, FN, SIG and other manufacturers have been using it for a long time. For the AR platform it seems like a radical departure but it really isn't, as the concept isn't new and isn't ours, we just happen to take the step to make it and bring it to market, while others may have made it but never brought it to market.

There aren't a great deal of reasons the throw should be 90 degrees. The original goal for the 45 degree selector was to shorten the throw to make the selector faster in action, it also has the advantage of being accessible by the thumb without shifting grips. A flick of the tip of the thumb, and the weapon is on Safe. For those that are used to riding the selector (on a 1911, for instance), the 45 selector arrangement is intuitive and natural. For those handling it for the first time, the typical reaction is they don't want to go back to the 90 degree :p

This year there will be three or four manufacturers that will produce receivers compatible with both the 45 and 90 degree selector. It is our intention to make the 45 degree arrangement a viable and valid option on receivers, much like all the handguards, stocks, pistol grips, all options that make the weapon more usable and user friendly :)

[darr3239]

On speaking with the instructor during the class, he said what you guys have been saying, which was try a smaller grip or shave down the MOE.

I worked with my other AR, with has a standard grip, and there were no issues with manipulating the safety what so ever. The Magpul MOE is a bigger grip, but not huge, as evidenced when placing the guns side by side. It fills your hand more, and moves your trigger finger further back, which I really like.

For me the MOE feels great in my hand while shooting, and just generally holding onto the gun, even one handed. The 45 degree safety is looking better and better, in that it apparently gives you the ability to select the grip you like the best, while eliminating any potential issues you may have while operating the safety.

[duece71]

I have never had a problem manipulating the safety from "safe"to "fire" even with the MOE grip. From "fire"to "safe"....Yes, I have to move my grip hand off the grip to use my thumb to snap the safety from fire to safe. My hand is partially coming off the grip but as I am holding the rifle with my other hand as well it has not been a problem. Its fast but a little awkward. MOE grip is very comfortable and does not impair manipulation of the safety in either direction.