View Full Version : DD m4, S&W M&P15, LMT, BCM... first AR
Athirst5IoN
03-23-11, 11:18
To start off I want to thank this forum's awesome community. I've been searching through threads here for awhile, and I feel like I've learned quite a bit compared to the little knowledge I had a couple of weeks back. I have decent knowledge and experience with handguns and your basic hunting rifles, but I've only shot m4's and other ARs here and there.
So, I've recently decided I'm ready to invest in a nice quality AR. When I first began my search I was looking into S&W M&P rifles, but from posts on here I feel like my money may serve me better getting something else. I am very interested in DD v3 or v5. I've also considered investing in a 6.8 with a BCM lower and LMT 6.8 upper.
At first I will mostly be training and plinking with my purchase, but I would like to eventually get in on some tactical shooting competitions. Also if I get a 5.56 I may save up for a 6.8 upper for hunting purposes down the line.
Could you guys give me any help in my decision? What do you guys think about a DD v3 or v5 being my first purchase, and possibly buying a LMT 6.8 upper down the road to swap back and forth with the DD 5.56 upper? Also if any of you have any suggestions, help, or advise please share.
Thanks in advance.
All that you listed were good choices. I would either pick Daniel Defense or BCM. I love both companies' products and if something were to ever happen their customer service would take care of you. I think you would love the DDM4V3 or the V5. It all comes down to whether you want a 9 inch rail or a full-length 12 inch rail.
Also make sure to look at BCM, they have all kinds of different configurations for their rifles.
About the 6.8 LMT upper, I've only fired an LWRC 6.8 upper and while it was pretty fun, your money is better spent elsewhere. 6.8 ammo is expensive and hard to find at times. I would take the money you would have spent on that upper and invest in some 5.56 and some training. You will be better served with that. Also, if you are just plinking and such like you mentioned 5.56 would be cheaper and easier to find in many different loads depending on what you want.
I hope this has helped some :)
DD, LMT, BCM===GOOD. If you're going to purchase a LMT 6.8 upper, there is no need to purchase a 5.56 upper because you're only going to get the LMT in 6.8 on the monolithic rail platform (MRP). You will have the option of quick change barrels (1 minute or so) and can put a 5.56 barrel onto the weapon very quickly. I do recommend having a complete carrier for that, and PMags for your 5.56 as 6.8 does not feed well from PMags beyond 5 or 6 rounds. The LMT MRP is not cheap, but it is one phenomenal system, and you can purchase .22cal or 9mm MRP barrels from Spikes Tactical, or have the barrel of your choice machined to accept MRP bolts done here. (https://dbmg-llc.3dcartstores.com/MRP-barrel-conversion_p_25.html)
You could use any AR15 barrel you wanted to at that point because it would mean just replacing the bolt carrier group to the caliber you wanted to shoot. Theoretically, you could zero an optic to a specific barrel in a Larue mount, take the optic off, switch the barrel/bolt/magazine to another barrel, put a different optic on the weapon and go shooting very quickly. My advice in this area would be to consider the MRP as it is extremely versatile and will be a wonderul system from which to have multiple calibers for training, hunting, defense, SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, zombies....you get the idea. Good luck on your purchases.
I'd consider getting a basic BCM mid length and going from there. Your spending more on the DD gun that comes with stuff you may not need or end up liking.
I would recommend focusing on the 556 to begin with. Commonality and affordability of mags and ammo being the primary concern. If you want to buy a 6.8 later for hunting, great, but to me, the AR makes an expensive platform for killing critters if you don't already have one. For training, defense, and general recreation, the 556 makes the most sense in the AR platform. A 22 kit, dedicated upper, or dedicated gun can be a good addition later for even more affordability in training @ close range, but should not replace the 556.
As far as configuration goes, the thing you have to decide between the V3 and the V5 is whether you want 9" of rail with a fixed FSB (Front Sight Base) or 12" of rail with either fixed or folding sights. I personally prefer the longer rails (I actually run a 14") with folding sights for the following reasons:
1) allows me to get my support hand closer to the muzzle and drive the gun better.
2) more comfortable stance/shooting position
3) better sight radius using iron sights
4) minimizes barrel shadow from a light
I prefer folding to fixed sights as I like a clean sight picture, but that is really a preference thing.
At least you know to start with quality gear. That mentality will serve you well as you work out your preferences.
A standard BCM midlength would be my suggestion. Put a bunch of rounds into it and decide what you are "missing" or would like to add/upgrade to it.
Athirst5IoN
03-23-11, 12:12
Thanks guys for responding so fast. I appreciate all the advice. I have a few minor questions though.
What kind of barrel twist does the BCM 16" middy have. I may just have looked over it but I do not remember seeing anything about it.
As far as DD v3 vs v5 - I've been contemplating if I would rather have a fixed FSB or not. I know it seems like a good idea to not have a FSB when using optics, but does a FSB really bother anyone when looking through an optic? This also is something I'm wondering when looking at a BCM middy.
Thanks again.
1/7
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm
The FSB does not bother me at all with a T-1 lower 1/3 co-witness.
On my 1-4 optic equipped rifle I prefer no FSB although it was never that huge of an issue for me personally. It is just my preference as it's strictly a 3-gun rifle.
Beat Trash
03-23-11, 12:30
BCM Middy uses 1/7 twist.
Fixed front sight vs. folding sight; around here that would be like asking which type of women are better, blonds or redheads (correct answer is to get both - duh...) it comes to a matter of personal preference.
I have found that the fixed front sight doesn't bother me when using a red dot optic.
I agree with the others when they say to stay with the 5.56mm.
The DD and the BCM both offer various guns with various options on them. Both are of excellent quality. If you have the experience to know what options (if any) are best suited for your specific needs, then it might be cheaper to buy it already assembled.
If, as in your case, you are new to the platform, I'd recommend a basic carbine. With enough training and time, you will determine what options best suits your needs. Until then, keep it simple.
All of my guns are carbine length gas systems. This is only because when I bought my guns, there wasn't the variety of quality manufactures that exist today. It was pretty much limited to Colt. I have too much invested in the guns I own to change just to get the mid length gas system.
But if I lost all of my carbines and had to start over, I'd go mid length.
For you, I'd get the BCM mid length basic carbine, get some training, and shoot the shit out of it.
Athirst5IoN
03-23-11, 12:32
The FSB does not bother me at all with a T-1 lower 1/3 co-witness.
On my 1-4 optic equipped rifle I prefer no FSB although it was never that huge of an issue for me personally. It is just my preference as it's strictly a 3-gun rifle.
Could you explain what you mean by T-1 lower 1/3 co-witness as opposed to a 1-4?
... i know, i know... i'm such a 'newb'
Could you explain what you mean by T-1 lower 1/3 co-witness as opposed to a 1-4?
... i know, i know... i'm such a 'newb'
T-1 is the model number of the newest Aimpoint (also called a "Micro")
http://www.aimpoint.com/us/products/all-products/product-singleview/product/micro-t-1/
A lower-1/3 co-witness means that the optic mount is at such a height that the irons show up in the lower 1/3 of the optic's window. This is desirable to some as it allows them to look over the irons to use the optic without the need to fold the irons.
A 1-4 refers to a 1X to 4X variable magnification scope. This option is gaining popularity, especially in the 3-gun crowd, due to it's versatility.
My first AR was a LMT 14.5" carbine, really like the way I have it setup. However if I would do it over again I would go with the LMT MRP platform. The options are so great as to the different setups you could run. You could run a 14.5" CL barrel and a RDS and switch barrels and throw on the 16" or 18" stainless barrel with a magnified optic for more precision. That will be my next AR purchase when money allows.
If you want a 6.8 just need a BCG and barrel and swap it out. The .300 AAC Blackout also looks like a nice option.
dirt_diver
03-23-11, 12:53
I think lmtrocks has the best idea, being that you mentioned wanting 6.8 to at least be in your future.
That said, from what I've read you can't go wrong with BCM. Unfortunately I can't say I have firsthand knowledge with them, yet, as all I've owned is a M&P and a couple Noveskes, both brands having served their respective purposes smashingly.
ASH556 answered perfectly. Sorry, I should have offered a more detailed answer.
You got some great answers. Absorb and search some more on this sight and your decision will come to you.
Best,
Harold
Could you explain what you mean by T-1 lower 1/3 co-witness as opposed to a 1-4?
... i know, i know... i'm such a 'newb'
Welcome, try the search function. It will make your life easier and the mods will not hate you.
I'd consider getting a basic BCM mid length and going from there. Your spending more on the DD gun that comes with stuff you may not need or end up liking.
I'm in the same same boat as the OP (except I can't afford or buy an AR right away), and my first choice was a DD M4v3. Then I was told about this website in addition to the BCM line up, and now I want a 16" middy with MOE handguards.
I asked myself why I wanted the M4v3, and the honest answer is "because it looks cool." Even at the time I realized I didn't need all the extra crap. And after reading about BCMs here, I've no qualms on wanting one of those now. I'd rather be able to shoot the damn thing anyway.
Athirst5IoN
03-23-11, 13:10
Welcome, try the search function. It will make your life easier and the mods will not hate you.
Will do, thanks.
I'm in the same same boat as the OP (except I can't afford or buy an AR right away), and my first choice was a DD M4v3. Then I was told about this website in addition to the BCM line up, and now I want a 16" middy with MOE handguards.
I asked myself why I wanted the M4v3, and the honest answer is "because it looks cool." Even at the time I realized I didn't need all the extra crap. And after reading about BCMs here, I've no qualms on wanting one of those now. I'd rather be able to shoot the damn thing anyway.
Now that's a smart decision :)
If you go to the BCM sub-forum, there's a thread called "BCM Stuff" that lays out all of the specs of BCM, thus explaining why they are so great. Check it out.
Doc Safari
03-23-11, 17:01
I'll just add that I prefer my BCM carbine and mid-length to the Daniel Defense DDXV because the BCM rifles have the old-school sling swivels where you'd expect them to be: at the front sight base and the collapsible stock.
The DD had only the port at the rear of the receiver for the single-point sling and no front swivel.
I know it's a small thing, but it's something to look for if you think you might have a preference for one or the other.
Dirtyboy333
03-23-11, 23:42
If u want the nice lookin DD with the rails already installed then by all means buy it. I bought a standard carbine and ended up adding the rails among a lot of other things which ends up costing more. I bought Midwest rails and I like them but if u buy The DD your getting the best rails/handgaurds in the business for the price of the Midwest. You can always sell the rails if u don't like them.
All the brands mentioned are GTG so buy whatever u like it's your money. I would advise listening to the others and staying away from the 6.8 at least for now.
Eta. If u need a two point sling u can add a $30 rail attachment and then position it wherever you want. Also it's no big deal but if it means anything to you, DD manufactures their own product.
I'll just add that I prefer my BCM carbine and mid-length to the Daniel Defense DDXV because the BCM rifles have the old-school sling swivels where you'd expect them to be: at the front sight base and the collapsible stock.
The DD had only the port at the rear of the receiver for the single-point sling and no front swivel.
I know it's a small thing, but it's something to look for if you think you might have a preference for one or the other.
The DD VX rifles use the Omega X rails, which have integral QD sling attachment points built in. They are rotation-limited as well.
Don't get me wrong DD, BCM, and others make awesome AR-15's. But never count out S&W. S&W M&P15's are great AR15's. I got a good deal on a optics ready M&P15 awhile ago from CDNN. I liked it bec it was a bare AR that let me customize it the way I wanted it. I now have it the exact way I want it (well almost :D). What can I say, the thing has been nothing but reliable. 90% of the time I shoot dirty ammo. It just works! The only thing I "upgraded" was the buffer (spikes tactical). S&W also has great customer service. So I'm just saying don't over look them. But I don't blame you for looking at DD or BCM (future AR's for me :)), amazing companies. You can't go wrong with any of these companies. It all comes down to what do YOU want. It's personal preference my friend.
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