View Full Version : Question for you Acog guys..
philipeggo
03-23-11, 13:17
Considering buying a TA44S for my New build, admittedly i have little formal training and this will be my primary home " Honey did you hear something out there?" gun. As it stands right now im drawn to it since i know its built like a tank and it requires no batteries. However i am fully aware of my lack of training and im thinking that an Aimpoint Pro would be "easier" to use. Any thoughts or comments from you guys that are more experienced than me would be super. Price difference is not a major thing to me since i can get a decent deal on either.
I have a T1 on mine and love it, but got to try one of these (green reticle) in a class during the battfeild pickup drill. I really liked it!! If I didn't have the T1 I would get one of these. Hit up KWELZ on here as it was his rifle. The class was in jan on a cold snowy overcast day. The green just really stood out more than everyones red dot either aimpoint or eotech.
I liked it so much I bought a TA31H-Green for field use. T1 in Larue will stay on around the house and I'll swap out the ACOG in an ADM when I'm out and about.
While I like this ACOG, I would go with an Aimpoint for the role of close in room clearing.
C4
Here's a thought (and what ultimately swayed me from ACOG to Aimpoint):
Have you ever tried clearing your house at night? I don't know about you, but mine's dark. Turn on the lights you say? That makes you an easier target as you've just illuminated yourself for the bad guy. Furthermore, it impedes your ability to see outside your windows. So we're to the point of needing a weapon light. The very instant you hit that light, your lit ACOG reticle is gone. The Aimpoint isn't. And don't buy the crap that if you have tritium sights, you don't need a light. If you can't see the target, what does it matter if you can see your sights? Things look totally different under stress, in the dark, and when things are moving. Take every advantage you can for these scenarios, as they are the most likely ones you'll encounter in home/personal defense.
The reticle on the ACOG is not gone but it’s also not illuminated, its black just like any other scope. However an RDS is a better choice for HD. And since the ACOG you are looking at is only 1.5 magnification I don’t see any advantage over an Aimpoint.
The reticle on the ACOG is not gone but it’s also not illuminated, its black just like any other scope. However an RDS is a better choice for HD. And since the ACOG you are looking at is only 1.5 magnification I don’t see any advantage over an Aimpoint.
Perhaps I should have worded it differently, but that's what I meant by "lit AGOC reticle".
I would go with Trijicon RMR or Insight MRDS. You can use this for HD and close up at the range. Mount it at the 1 o'clock position so you can still have your other optic as well.
As both a police officer and an a lover of ACOGs I would suggest a RDS. A RDS and weapon mounted flashlight and you are GTG. The TA44SG is great model and probably one of the better ACOGs for room clearing but it still can washout when using a flashlight. And in complete darkness the tritium is not as bright as a red dot. The green is better than red and way better than amber IMHO. I never had anyone break in my house( however I've broken into a few :D). I know with search warrants I appreciate a red dot that is always there. You want consistency and the ACOG in those situations its not. In a home defense situation I would want the same. Will it work, of course its an ACOG. Just train a lot.
That being said my favorite optic is my TA11G is my favorite optic. But if I ever worked the day shift I would love my TA11 on patrol.
philipeggo
03-23-11, 18:31
Thanks for the help guys , noticed the washout on one of the trijicon reflex scopes but i figured acogs would be better. Think im gonna get a Aimpoint pro on a Cantilever mount.:D
I have a T1 on mine and love it, but got to try one of these (green reticle) in a class during the battfeild pickup drill. I really liked it!! If I didn't have the T1 I would get one of these. Hit up KWELZ on here as it was his rifle. The class was in jan on a cold snowy overcast day. The green just really stood out more than everyones red dot either aimpoint or eotech.
I liked it so much I bought a TA31H-Green for field use. T1 in Larue will stay on around the house and I'll swap out the ACOG in an ADM when I'm out and about.
Hey wait. How did I get pulled into this! :sarcastic:
I do run a Micro Acog on one of my guns. And I love it. It isn't the best for some situations but it is a great all around optic.
I have one acog, a TA-33, but for HD no way. In fact...have you ever fired an AR-15? Without ear protection? INSIDE? Forget about hearing anything for the rest of your life.
Leave it in the safe for HD unless you're on your porch and the zombies are in the treeline. Your HD gun should be a 12 gauge pump shotgun, loaded with birdshot, with 2 rounds of buckshot following up the rear. Attach a picatinny rail to the top of the receiver, and a mini-red dot.
If you reload, you can probably even develope a subsonic load just for the house. Discharging a weapon indoors is no joke when it comes to sound. A .223 at 3000+fps indoors is ear-i-cide for everyone in your house, especially you. The pain will be so great you won't even get off a followup shot.
The 12 gauge is your friend at home.
Not to mention, it isn't like you're going to fly out of bed in the middle of the night and be "Tactical Dan, Special Forces, Wheaties for breakfast, 3-gun 10-time world champ". It's going to be "barefoot, foggy-brained, stubbed toe, hyper-nervous, where are the kids, who's gonna eat this bullet on the other side of the wall if I miss, can't-see-shit Dave, who's wife was a bitch right before bed the night before and why isn't she doing this shit?".
870 pump. Aint nobody a house-ninja at 4am, except the crackhead.
philipeggo
03-24-11, 00:11
Hey wait. How did I get pulled into this! :sarcastic:
I do run a Micro Acog on one of my guns. And I love it. It isn't the best for some situations but it is a great all around optic.
That was my intial thought of the ACOG too , but the washout is a deal breaker for me.
I have one acog, a TA-33, but for HD no way. In fact...have you ever fired an AR-15? Without ear protection? INSIDE? Forget about hearing anything for the rest of your life.
Leave it in the safe for HD unless you're on your porch and the zombies are in the treeline. Your HD gun should be a 12 gauge pump shotgun, loaded with birdshot, with 2 rounds of buckshot following up the rear. Attach a picatinny rail to the top of the receiver, and a mini-red dot.
If you reload, you can probably even develope a subsonic load just for the house. Discharging a weapon indoors is no joke when it comes to sound. A .223 at 3000+fps indoors is ear-i-cide for everyone in your house, especially you. The pain will be so great you won't even get off a followup shot.
The 12 gauge is your friend at home.
Not to mention, it isn't like you're going to fly out of bed in the middle of the night and be "Tactical Dan, Special Forces, Wheaties for breakfast, 3-gun 10-time world champ". It's going to be "barefoot, foggy-brained, stubbed toe, hyper-nervous, where are the kids, who's gonna eat this bullet on the other side of the wall if I miss, can't-see-shit Dave, who's wife was a bitch right before bed the night before and why isn't she doing this shit?".
870 pump. Aint nobody a house-ninja at 4am, except the crackhead.
It would be prudent on anyone's part to not to source information that can pop up on the internet and could possibly be a factor in some real life situation. Birdshot is for birds, it has practically no useful terminal characteristics against people. Full stop.
Cotey, Gus J.: "Number 1 Buckshot, the Number 1 Choice." Wound Ballistics Review, 2(4), 10-18, 1996.
FWIW I have a starling (they are little tiny barn birds) problem, it regularly takes two shots to kill them at about 10 yards.
Heartbreaker
03-24-11, 02:26
I have one acog, a TA-33, but for HD no way. In fact...have you ever fired an AR-15? Without ear protection? INSIDE? Forget about hearing anything for the rest of your life.
Leave it in the safe for HD unless you're on your porch and the zombies are in the treeline. Your HD gun should be a 12 gauge pump shotgun, loaded with birdshot, with 2 rounds of buckshot following up the rear. Attach a picatinny rail to the top of the receiver, and a mini-red dot.
If you reload, you can probably even develope a subsonic load just for the house. Discharging a weapon indoors is no joke when it comes to sound. A .223 at 3000+fps indoors is ear-i-cide for everyone in your house, especially you. The pain will be so great you won't even get off a followup shot.
The 12 gauge is your friend at home.
Not to mention, it isn't like you're going to fly out of bed in the middle of the night and be "Tactical Dan, Special Forces, Wheaties for breakfast, 3-gun 10-time world champ". It's going to be "barefoot, foggy-brained, stubbed toe, hyper-nervous, where are the kids, who's gonna eat this bullet on the other side of the wall if I miss, can't-see-shit Dave, who's wife was a bitch right before bed the night before and why isn't she doing this shit?".
870 pump. Aint nobody a house-ninja at 4am, except the crackhead.
Ahhh so much nonsense/misinformation in one post, everywhere I go on the internet I can't escape from shotgun myth guy.
To the OP, I've found even with 4x ACOGs they work alright at short distance with both eyes open, but obviously there are eye relief and parallax issues you won't have with something like a T1, so you would need a consistent cheekweld and a lot of practice to really rely on it for HD. As with anything else best thing you can do is to try out different options before making your purchase, ideally on friends guns but even looking through them at a shop or gun show will give you a good understanding.
Ahhh so much nonsense/misinformation in one post, everywhere I go on the internet I can't escape from shotgun myth guy.
So you've shot a .223 indoors without 3 layers of ear protection? Patterned birdshot with a modified choke at 15 feet?
Viably negate one thing I wrote, or back to arfcom fanboy club you go.
I have one acog, a TA-33, but for HD no way. In fact...have you ever fired an AR-15? Without ear protection? INSIDE? Forget about hearing anything for the rest of your life.
Leave it in the safe for HD unless you're on your porch and the zombies are in the treeline. Your HD gun should be a 12 gauge pump shotgun, loaded with birdshot, with 2 rounds of buckshot following up the rear. Attach a picatinny rail to the top of the receiver, and a mini-red dot.
If you reload, you can probably even develope a subsonic load just for the house. Discharging a weapon indoors is no joke when it comes to sound. A .223 at 3000+fps indoors is ear-i-cide for everyone in your house, especially you. The pain will be so great you won't even get off a followup shot.
The 12 gauge is your friend at home.
Not to mention, it isn't like you're going to fly out of bed in the middle of the night and be "Tactical Dan, Special Forces, Wheaties for breakfast, 3-gun 10-time world champ". It's going to be "barefoot, foggy-brained, stubbed toe, hyper-nervous, where are the kids, who's gonna eat this bullet on the other side of the wall if I miss, can't-see-shit Dave, who's wife was a bitch right before bed the night before and why isn't she doing this shit?".
870 pump. Aint nobody a house-ninja at 4am, except the crackhead.
Please read more and post less.
So you've shot a .223 indoors without 3 layers of ear protection?
No but I have done it with simple Electronic Hearing protection. Loud but not painfully or damagingly so.
Patterned birdshot with a modified choke at 15 feet?
Is the absolute worst option for firearm Home defense I can think of except maybe a Taurus Judge or a .22 pistol.
Viably negate one thing I wrote, or back to arfcom fanboy club you go.
I think you need to read more and post less for a bit. This is a topic that has been covered numerous times here. ARs are one of the best options for Home defense. And if you have a suppressor you are even better off. I am just waiting on paperwork but once it is back my primary HD gun will be a 11.5 AR with a can. Add Hornady TAP ammo and I have an HD gun with minimal hearing danger, less over penetration than a shotgun and that I am far more familiar with.
But now we are getting way off topic.
ACOGs are not the best to use indoors but with proper training they are still quite usable.
The biggest problem has already been mentioned. Shooting from a dark room into a bright room onto a dark target. You will have trouble seeing the reticle.
Please read more and post less.
Dammit Templar, you beat me to it.
curse my verboseness.
I just had another thought this morning. If you use a scope cover on the front you can utilize the Bindon Aiming Concept. Basically you keep the front cover down when using it. Keeping both eyes open the reticle will superimpose over the target. Since no light will be coming through the scope it will not washout. It works well at close range, 20 yards or so, but it takes some practice. You could also get an ACOG with more magnification, like maybe a TA33, using this technique.
I still think an RDS is going to make a better HD optic but I thought I would throw this idea out.
Covering the front lenses is certainly an option for home defense distances, however each shooter will experience a different amount of phoria, resulting in differences in POA/POI shift. This varies shooter to shooter. I have tried it with a 4x Acog with butler flip caps and from 10 yards and in, my shift was nothing I would be concerned about for fast drills. A few inches at most. But search Molon's thread on the subject. Some have a much greater shift in POI. This increases greatly at distances greater than CQB. Again you can make just about any setup you want work, as long as you train extensively with it. But I think an optic like an aimpoint pro or c3 will have an easier learning curve and is cheaper to boot.
philipeggo
03-24-11, 10:47
Thanks for all the help guys , the info you all provide is invaluable. (Except for that bird shot thing ,if i had a shotgun it would be loaded with 00 TAP buck) I was at my local big box gun store and the only ACOGs they had were the version for the US Army and a 3x with an amber reticle. Covered the Fiber optic post and blam there went my reticle. Not to mention whenever my head was out of position i lost visibility through the scope. It was however Extremely well built . I think the Aimpoint is the way to go for me , maybe after some training ill be able to use an ACOG better and pick one up. However at this juncture it seems the the Aimpoint is more idiot proof and more forgiving when it comes to technique.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.