View Full Version : PWS Triad? WTF, over?
Has anyone had any experience with the PWS Triad suppressor/compensator? They are making some bold claims about it's performance and the device is cheap - ~$60.
The Triad flash suppressor features a revolutionary design bringing true flash suppression together with reduced muzzle flip by redirecting gases exiting the muzzle without the overpressure created by traditional recoil compensators. The unique internal design of the Triad provides an excellent performing flash suppressor while retaining a great deal of the muzzle control that PWS muzzle devices have become known for.
PWS Link (http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=251&idcategory=6)
GUNBLOG Link (http://www.gunblog.com/new-pws-triad-flash-suppressor/)
Interesting. Looks to be another compromise device.....but one with the onus on flash suppression rather than compensating. Time will tell I guess as to how effective it is.....could either turn out to be a real winner and a bargain....or just an overpriced A2. I'd like to see a view straight through it.
I mentioned on FB when I saw this that I wanted to add one to my brake testing. They said it was a FH not a brake. :confused:
I'd still like to add one. Might try to find one through other channels.
Definitely doesn't look like a brake. I guess you could make the argument that it has some comp characteristics if you time it with no slot on the bottom.
But without looking throught it, It appears to be another Blackoutish flash hider. :confused:
If it's supposed to be timed with the logo up, it looks like you've got 3 open slots at 270, 150 and 30 degrees. PERHAPS this gives the effect of pushing the muzzle down and left, kinda the same way an AK slant brake works.
But I doubt it.
And as a flash hider, I don't see how it can be any more or less effective than the Vortex, Phantom or even the lowly A2.
Looks like a money seperation device to me.
rubberneck
03-23-11, 17:59
Just a few short years ago there was a lack of decent muzzle devices now you can't swing a dead cat without hitting one. Big win for us.
doesn't look like you can use a crush washer, with that shoulder sleeve. i've grown to hate peel washers, myself. peel, tighten, peel, tighten.. oops- peeled tu mas!
It says it money back guarantee. Worth a shot I guess if youre curious. Kinda wierd about the price though...wonder how well it really works. I have been wanting to try the FCS556, It has a $100 price tag. So compared to the Triad I wonder how good it is. Id like to hear from someone thats used them
It says it money back guarantee. Worth a shot I guess if youre curious. Kinda wierd about the price though...wonder how well it really works. I have been wanting to try the FCS556, It has a $100 price tag. So compared to the Triad I wonder how good it is. Id like to hear from someone thats used them
it wasn't that long ago that $60 was about the most 90% of us would ever spend on a non-adapter muzzle device.
how quickly times change
it wasn't that long ago that $60 was about the most 90% of us would ever spend on a non-adapter muzzle device.
how quickly times change
I dont blame you. Ihave always been a fan of the "lowly" A2. lol I like it
davidjinks
03-23-11, 18:58
Definitely doesn't look like a brake. I guess you could make the argument that it has some comp characteristics if you time it with no slot on the bottom.
But without looking throught it, It appears to be another Blackoutish flash hider. :confused:
This was pretty much what I was going to say myself. I'm looking at mine right now and they look alike sans the PWS has flatter tines (For lack of the proper word).
now you can't swing a dead cat without hitting one. Big win for us.
It sucks for us cats, though!
It looks pretty interesting - I wouldn't mind giving it a try.
or even the lowly A2.
At $8, an unbeatable value.
Clobbersauras
03-24-11, 01:10
Interesting. Depending on how it's supposed to be clocked it could give some compensating effect.
SWATcop556
03-24-11, 03:37
At $8, an unbeatable value.
And it's what I run on all but two of my guns.
Same here... and those have silencer mounts or they'd be fit with A2 flash hiders as well.
At $8, an unbeatable value.
And surprisingly effective!:D
And surprisingly effective!:D
I was in a class in which everybody was running A2 FH's, except for one guy with a YHM Phantom. The Phantom guy's nighttime flash was sliiiightly less than the rest, but really not enough to justify the price difference IMHO.
I was in a class in which everybody was running A2 FH's, except for one guy with a YHM Phantom. The Phantom guy's nighttime flash was sliiiightly less than the rest, but really not enough to justify the price difference IMHO.
Ive not had a chance to personally see the phantom, but Ive heard it does its job well. The A2 just makes me fell all nostalgic:D
I received one today. I dont plan on doing any fancy video reviews, but I can compare it to a couple other FH or brake..or brakehiders, and reporting back. It did come with their handy shim set.
Ill take some macro pics of it tonight and post them. It is different than my Vortex, (I dont have blackout), in that the cuts for the prongs are not at an even depth. The top cut goes down the furthest, and I believe the bottom 2 are the same. There are angled cuts on the inside of the 3 prongs as well.
Cool. Post your thoughts for sure.
I wondered how the heck can this thing be a brake? I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't suppress flash as well as a Blackout. We'll see.
I received one today. I dont plan on doing any fancy video reviews, but I can compare it to a couple other FH or brake..or brakehiders, and reporting back. It did come with their handy shim set.
Ill take some macro pics of it tonight and post them. It is different than my Vortex, (I dont have blackout), in that the cuts for the prongs are not at an even depth. The top cut goes down the furthest, and I believe the bottom 2 are the same. There are angled cuts on the inside of the 3 prongs as well.
If you take pics post them up in here. Thanks.
I have been wanting to try out the Troy Claymore. I have an M4 in
16". Not sure if its meant for anything that long or what. I hear good things though
I received one today. I dont plan on doing any fancy video reviews, but I can compare it to a couple other FH or brake..or brakehiders, and reporting back. It did come with their handy shim set.
Ill take some macro pics of it tonight and post them. It is different than my Vortex, (I dont have blackout), in that the cuts for the prongs are not at an even depth. The top cut goes down the furthest, and I believe the bottom 2 are the same. There are angled cuts on the inside of the 3 prongs as well.
That would be great, and if you would get back to us after you get a chance to shoot it. I want to know if this thing actually cuts down on muzzle flip.
I was in a class in which everybody was running A2 FH's, except for one guy with a YHM Phantom. The Phantom guy's nighttime flash was sliiiightly less than the rest, but really not enough to justify the price difference IMHO.
This is what convinced me it was worththe cost but the vortex wasn't.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NXTLoK7wEg&feature=related
A couple quick shots trying to display the varying levels of the bottom of the prongs and the angles inside them. I will try and shoot it this weekend. The "bottom" two prongs are cut the same depth.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/r3h4b/CIMG0376.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/r3h4b/CIMG0378.jpg
Hey Sadmin
Get a chance to shoot the Triad yet? If so, what do you think?
Negative. I will this wknd.
Negative. I will this wknd.
Excellent, look forward to your comments.
I picked up one of these but have not installed it.
Initial thoughts......
1) directional venting on the inside of the prongs. Should help with muzzle rise
2) weighs ~2.1 ounces, approximately 1/2 of an AAC Blackout
3) less metal in the prongs means that it should ping much less than a Blackout, with equivalent flash hiding performance.
I forgot about this thing. You should be able to flick it with your finger and get an idea of the Pingification factor.
Put a Triad on my 16" middy and got 150 rounds through it this weekend, replacing an A2. Comes with the shims needed for timing, no peel or crush washers needed. My initial impression was of very good recoil control compared to the A2. Minimal reticle jump, and what there was went straight up, no sideways movement.
I can't yet comment anything useful on flash supression - there was no flash visible to the shooter with Federal XM193 in daytime on a bright sunny day.
I don't have a lot experience with different brakes to compare too, I'm afraid. Mostly A2, and a radial/Levang style from a now defunct company. The Triad worked much better than either of them. I would like to compare it to the FSC, but mine is an FSC30 on a 308 AR, which doesn't, somehow, seem like a fair comparison. :D
I liked it much more than I expected - when I opened the box I wondered how it was going to control recoil at all. It did, through some exploitation of physics that I don't understand. I'd buy another.
From the 6" drop test, as suspected the PWS Triad has a higher pitch, but quieter ping than the PIIIIIIIIIING of the AAC Blackout anvil strike.
Kind of like an 8" splash cymbal compared to a 18" heavy crash cymbal. The more metal, the longer the sustain.
PWS knows what they're doing with regard to muzzle control so I suspect this will be a winner.
Bumping this up. Sadmin are you there for some additional comments?
Another bump.....anyone got any more info on this thing, specifically vs other brakes and hiders?
Anyone shot these next to the Vortex/Blackout yet?
Burt Gummer
07-05-11, 10:05
If it's supposed to be timed with the logo up, it looks like you've got 3 open slots at 270, 150 and 30 degrees. PERHAPS this gives the effect of pushing the muzzle down and left, kinda the same way an AK slant brake works.
But I doubt it...
Actually, it looks like that's exactly how it mitigates muzzle climb.
I wonder if it needs to be timed differently for shooting off the left shoulder?
I wonder if it needs to be timed differently for shooting off the left shoulder?
Their instructions say to time it by putting the PWS logo in the 12o'clock position. That's a standard method they do with their FH's and comps.
Is the top cut longer than the bottom? I'm pretty interested in a new FH or Comp for my new build, i'd love to get a battlecomp but thats just out of my budget right now so at $60 this may be the winner so far.
SomeOtherGuy
08-01-11, 08:39
Is the top cut longer than the bottom? I'm pretty interested in a new FH or Comp for my new build, i'd love to get a battlecomp but thats just out of my budget right now so at $60 this may be the winner so far.
Yes, the top slot (really about 1 o'clock) is slightly deeper than the other two. I have one of these waiting to try out but just haven't gotten to it yet.
SomeOtherGuy
10-03-11, 20:25
I finally installed and tested mine today. (It had been sitting on the shelf for about 6 months.)
Installation is like any other muzzle device that needs to be timed. I installed mine with the PWS logo at exactly 12 o'clock, the intended orientation.
Test equipment: Spike's 16" midlength LE upper, 5.56 NATO, on AP lower with Armalite 2-stage trigger, VLTOR original modstock, H buffer and Armalite (?) standard carbine spring.
Conditions: clear sunny day, 1 hour before dusk in shadow from tall trees, 63 F.
Ammo: Federal .223 55gr FMJ (Walmart bulk) and Prvi Partizan M193
Felt recoil and muzzle rise: approximately the same felt recoil as on a 16" midlength with an A2. Muzzle rise did seem somewhat less, but the difference didn't seem that large. There did seem to be the straight back / limited straight up push without sideways movement that another person commented.
Noise: this actually seemed slightly louder than with an A2, although nowhere near the noise level with any brake. There was absolutely no ping or ringing as heard with many other prong-style flash hiders (Steyr FAL hiders are like tuning forks).
Flash: in late day and shade I did not see any muzzle flash, period. This may not seem remarkable, but using the same ammo I could see muzzle flash when I was firing a 20" rifle with an A2 just minutes earlier and later.
General impression: I need to try this in darkness to see how effective it is on flash. If I confirm that it's better on flash than an A2, then it would seem a somewhat better overall device based on a minor reduction in muzzle rise and better flash suppression. I have not tested it for dust when prone but I expect it will be worse than an A2 since it has a bottom slot. I'm not sure if those benefits are enough to merit the $57 or so cost when compared to the A2 you already have.
Other comments: as I mentioned I was firing a 20" rifle with an A2 at the same time. The 20" rifle had noticeably less recoil and muzzle rise than the 16" with this Triad. Just a reminder of the benefits of longer gas systems.
SomeOtherGuy
10-10-11, 22:17
Since my last post I've used the Triad-equipped upper four more times (one match and three practice sessions). I have mostly the same impressions, but I'll repeat and clarify:
Effect: the Triad has a major effect on muzzle rise and zero effect on recoil. The reduction of muzzle rise isn't all that noticeable if you don't have something to compare it with, but comparing back to back two 16" midlength uppers at the same time, one with the Triad and one with an A2, the difference was quite noticeable. Comparing those two back to back with an FSC-556, it was obvious that the FSC provided a major reduction in recoil, slightly better control of muzzle rise, and a whole lot of blast. I've also watched several videos of myself shooting with the Triad and it looks like absolutely zero muzzle rise - it looks better on video than it felt when firing.
Noise and blast: essentially identical to an A2. No ping from the tines. No blast like the FSC.
Flash: I still haven't used it in hard darkness, but in heavy shade under an extended shooting awning, which is also in tree shade and less than an hour before dusk on a cloudy day, a friend saw no visible flash while standing 8' to the side, and I haven't seen any flash with it under any shooting conditions. Also, no flash shows on video, but that was taken in fairly bright daylight. Testing this in hard darkness is on the to-do list.
I'm still unsure of the value proposition for this device, but it seems to do exactly what PWS claims.
Effect: the Triad has a major effect on muzzle rise and zero effect on recoil. The reduction of muzzle rise isn't all that noticeable if you don't have something to compare it with, but comparing back to back two 16" midlength uppers at the same time, one with the Triad and one with an A2, the difference was quite noticeable. Comparing those two back to back with an FSC-556, it was obvious that the FSC provided a major reduction in recoil, slightly better control of muzzle rise, and a whole lot of blast. I've also watched several videos of myself shooting with the Triad and it looks like absolutely zero muzzle rise - it looks better on video than it felt when firing.
Noise and blast: essentially identical to an A2. No ping from the tines. No blast like the FSC.
Flash: I still haven't used it in hard darkness, but in heavy shade under an extended shooting awning, which is also in tree shade and less than an hour before dusk on a cloudy day, a friend saw no visible flash while standing 8' to the side, and I haven't seen any flash with it under any shooting conditions. Also, no flash shows on video, but that was taken in fairly bright daylight. Testing this in hard darkness is on the to-do list.
I'm still unsure of the value proposition for this device, but it seems to do exactly what PWS claims.
To me those sound like significant value propositions.
viperashes
10-11-11, 07:09
PWS has been putting out some very interesting conceptual products. I bought one of their rifles after hearing nothing but good things from a not significant number of people.
They definitely have some hard to believe claims, but so far, I've been very impressed. Their products do exactly what the company says they will and are not under or over-sold as far as performance or quality.
Any more comments on these?
I saw these at SHOT show and a few of my trusted trigger puller friends told me they were pleasantly surprised by this muzzle device.
I'm going to pit one head to head against a FSC-556 and Battle Comp. I normally do not use brakes/comps of any kind as I much prefer suppressors or at flash hiders to muzzle devices that give me tooth aches after a few hours on the line, haha
SomeOtherGuy
01-30-12, 20:36
I continue to use the one I installed in October, and just this past week installed another one on a different upper (both of them are 16" midlengths). I've shot it with the exact same results and impressions as the first one. The Triad controls muzzle rise quite well with no increase in blast. It has no effect on recoil, and you may even perceive slightly more recoil because it's coming straight back instead of getting redirected a bit into muzzle rise. I still haven't shot it in total darkness, but in dim light no flash is visible even with ammo that tends to be flashy (UMC, Federal cheap stuff).
I've shot it back to back with the FSC-556. The FSC has a bit more muzzle control, far less recoil, and pretty strong blast.
I have not noticed any "ping" of the tines with the Triad. I have a Steyr FH on an STG-58 so I'm very familiar with what ping can be.
I had a pws mk114 built for me by the factory with the triad substituted for one of their flash hider/muzzle breaks. Is it as controllable as my Spike's with battle comp? No. Is it more controllable than a rifle with an a2? Yes! Will do some testing in the next couple days in low light (i work at an indoor range, so pitch black should not be hard). My overall impression? Love the company, love the rifle, love the flash hider! Will be buying more stuff from these guys in the very near future!
Looks like a future three prong USGI.
Very interested in hearing more about it.
Wormydog1724
02-29-12, 14:51
I have the PWS Triad 30 on my 6.8 SPC. I'll confirm evrything that was said. Although mine isn't a direct comparison because its 6.8, I am happy with the Triad. And it looks cool. Duh.
http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp247/wormydog1724/400f43f0.jpg
Battle*Hound
02-29-12, 19:49
Anyone shot these next to the Vortex/Blackout yet?
I shoot the Blackout...but I do know from experience that PWS makes very good products. Would be an interesting test.
Wormydog1724
02-29-12, 19:55
I had the Blackout on my AR before I switched it to 6.8.. There's no comparison in reduced muzzle flip and the lack of "PIIIIIING M'F'er" with the Triad. Triad>Blackout unless you need it for the suppressor, like I did. I can't comment on the flash reduction as I have no idea.
Battle*Hound
02-29-12, 20:00
Hey, anything to make it quieter without losing integrity is a win in my book.
It does look relatively unimpressive for what they claim it does. Anybody else have any good firsthand experience?
My first post, been lurking for over a year and I chanced upon this thread. I'm currently building an extra upper (11.5") and I've been looking for a product like this without breaking the bank (quite expensive in the Philippines, Battle Comps are selling for around $300). I found a PWS Triad for roughly $100 and thanks to the reviews on this thread I bought it. I'll try to post a review when I have it installed and tested on the firing range, thanks again!
Flash effect on a pitch dark indoor range seemed less than impressive to me. I could see a relatively small, dim orange flash coming through the tines. I would mostly attribute it to cheap ammo (pmc) but I still feel like you would be able to see that flash at 100 yards on the bad end of things.
As this is my one rifle and I removed an AAC brakeout non-mount, I feel my opinion is tainted as far as recoil so I will have to refrain from comment, other than to say it did have that straight up recoil everyone is talking about.
Bad Medicine
03-13-12, 13:45
I was able to shoot my PWS Triad for the first time a couple of weeks ago, I was really happy with it! It doesn't feel as concussive as the FC 556, didn't really notice any muzzle rise, and the recoil seems less than when I shot my service m4 with the A2 birdcage.
Hey guys pretty new here but here are my thoughts on the Triad.
I've had the triad on my 14.5" mid-length gun for a little 600 rounds now. In my experience the triad does a really good job fighting both muzzle climb and flash. I shot it side by side with an A2 in near zero light and flash suppression was at least as good, if not a little better. Muzzle climb is nearly totally mitigated but recoil is essentially untouched.
So if you're using a particularly overgassed 16" carbine system gun, your second shot sight picture is going to be considerably more upset than if you had a true brake on the gun. However, on a gun is already a soft shooter (such as my 14.5 middy) I found my splits to be essentially identical between the triad and an AAC brake when shooting 8 inch plates at 50 yards.
Two weeks ago I was able to shoot the triad prone and urban prone in a sandy dry riverbed. Prone and right shoulder urban were no problem at all with dust kick up. Left side urban was a little worse since there is a port that exits directly left. Still, there was never any sand kicked back towards the shooter and the target was not obscured by dust until after 9 rounds or so.
Overall I think the Triad is an amazing value. I'd like to side-by-side it with a battlecomp someday, but on the surface I can't find anything that the battlecomp does that the Triad doesn't do. And the triad is $40...
My 2¢
P.S. Never at any time did myself or shooters that were in very close proximity to me ever notice even slight concussion. There's really no overpressure at all with this device.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Awc28ZrEwQI
Here's a video of me shooting in slow mo with the PWS from directly in front of the muzzle. I'm not the best at recoil management, but you can see near the end i really cinched down on the rifle and was still getting a fair amount of recoil to the right side, specifically what PWS says this FH will minimize. Again, I was using the AAC non-mount brakeout before this and was extremely happy with it. I have since removed it in favor of the AAC. Plan on taking advantage of PWS' refund policy to see if they will allow me to put it towards an FSC556.
SomeOtherGuy
04-13-12, 09:46
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Awc28ZrEwQI
I watched your video and to my eyes the muzzle movement is better controlled than I would have expected. A comparison back to back with an A2 on the same upper would be great.
If you don't like the Triad I expect PWS will let you apply its cost toward an FSC-556 or just take a refund. Their refund policy is clear and generous.
Any updates or additional insight on this device?
I'm still really happy with mine. I finally had a chance to shoot it in zero light, and the flash suppression was very good. Much much better than the battlecomp we were shooting at the same time.
For my uses, and my applications, this is the best muzzle device out there. There is literally NO overpressure. So indoor ranges/shoot houses this thing is way more pleasant to shoot than a traditional brake, or even the battlecomp.
That being said, I ran it hard against an FSC and surefire break a few weeks ago, and while it doesn't "feel" nearly as good to shoot as the dedicated brakes, my 3 shot split times on a fullsize IPSC steel were nearly identical with all 3 guns. And actually consistently a bit faster with the triad gun. (though I had way more rounds through that gun)
I really really dig mine. And I think it looks super legit :)
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