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blackbox
03-25-11, 16:34
Hows everybody doing? I was planning on putting a Leupold Deltapoint reflex on top of my scope by the objective but I have a Aimpoint T1 at the moment. I am hoping not to spend money on the Leupold red dot and mount my T1 instead. Does any body have pics of the T1 mounted above a scope please? I would like to see how it looks before I buy an ring to mount it. Will it look awkward you think? I don't have my rifle at the moment to see how it looks because its upstate and won't be back there for another 2 weeks. Heres a pic of my spr that I'm building at the moment. Thank you all for your efforts and time!

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/blackmagic619/DSC00058.jpg

kartoffel
03-25-11, 18:43
It's going to be up real high if you mount it on top of that scope. If you can live with it being non-ambidextrous, how about mounting it at 11 or 1 o'clock?

1371USMCFL
03-25-11, 19:03
check out the picture thread above, couple of people have a t1 mounted up.

blackbox
03-25-11, 19:18
It's going to be up real high if you mount it on top of that scope. If you can live with it being non-ambidextrous, how about mounting it at 11 or 1 o'clock?

you're right! i think that I will be getting some kind of offset mount for a 1 o'clock.



check out the picture thread above, couple of people have a t1 mounted up.

I didn't see any with the scope/T1 combo, I'll take another look at the pics.


THANK YOU ALL!

DMR
03-25-11, 19:30
Dump that scope mount combo before you take another step. Your rings are to low leading you to needing the riser for the objective bell to clear. Look at a base such as LaRue, Bobro, or AMD.

I'm not completely sold on having the red dot on in addition to a properly managed optic, that is in the ptoper magnification range. I saw a pretty sweet set of Leupold rings designed to also mount the Delta point.

ALCOAR
03-25-11, 19:38
Yet here I am in this whacky forum again....

Any way OP, I could give you a dozen reasons why it's better to run a secondary at 1oclock than it is to run one all jacked up in space on top of an optic, but suffice to say the offset 1oclock is the way to go 99% of the time imho.

T-1 in a LT724...
http://i53.tinypic.com/28s22au.jpg

blackbox
03-25-11, 19:52
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/blackmagic619/IMG_07801028WEVO.jpg

i was thinking of this, anybody have experience on target aquisition with this set up with the mount being that far up towards the front of the barrel at the 1 o'clock position?

blackbox
03-25-11, 20:01
Dump that scope mount combo before you take another step.

The only reason that I have that riser is because of the buis, it was the only riser I have right now for the scope to clear the iron sights. I do see myself with a LaRue base in the near future. Thank you.

DMR
03-25-11, 20:30
The only reason that I have that riser is because of the buis, it was the only riser I have right now for the scope to clear the iron sights. I do see myself with a LaRue base in the near future. Thank you.

A SWAN sleeve raiser is a better solution for that issue, but again your rings are the primary issue. They are too low so everything to follow is going to be sub optimal. Before you drop $5-600 on a red dot you need to fix your primary optic.

blackbox
03-26-11, 08:16
but again your rings are the primary issue. They are too low so everything to follow is going to be sub optimal.

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you're saying there. Can you please clarify that statement? I would like my build to come out right. Thank you.

oalocke
03-26-11, 13:00
As others have said, you need to start with the mount for your magnified optic. The height probably isn't optimal, and you've also bridged the gap between your receiver and rail. Some folks can get away with that, but I've personally experienced issues with zero shift and given that you need a new mount anyway you might as well fix both issues in one go. Larue (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/LaRue-Tactical-SPR-M4-Scope-Mount-QD-LT-104-30-p/larue%20lt%20104%2030mm.htm) and ADM (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/American-Defense-RECON-Scope-Mount-30mm-rings-p/ad%20recon%2030.htm) both make really solid options.

For your t-1, reference Trident's set-up, or mine shown here (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=836497#post836497) (which also gets into how far forward or back to place the t-1). The Larue offset works well because it aligns properly with the bore. LMT showed off a new offset mount (http://jerkingthetrigger.com/blog/2011/01/07/stat-international-and-lmt-qfss/) at Shot that does the same. There are other mounts and, again, some folks can make them work just fine but those that don't properly align to the bore are a bitch to zero and can generate weird POI shifts at different ranges.

The last advice I'd give is to spend some time swinging your rifle offhand and try to honestly decide whether it is in fact viable as a general run-and-gun rig from a weight perspective. My SPR is right on the edge, weight-wise, and your rig looks heavier than mine.

ALCOAR
03-26-11, 13:10
As others have said, you need to start with the mount for your magnified optic. The height probably isn't optimal, and you've also bridged the gap between your receiver and rail. Some folks can get away with that, but I've personally experienced issues with zero shift and given that you need a new mount anyway you might as well fix both issues in one go. Larue (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/LaRue-Tactical-SPR-M4-Scope-Mount-QD-LT-104-30-p/larue%20lt%20104%2030mm.htm) and ADM (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/American-Defense-RECON-Scope-Mount-30mm-rings-p/ad%20recon%2030.htm) both make really solid options.

For your t-1, reference Trident's set-up, or mine shown here (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=836497#post836497) (which also gets into how far forward or back to place the t-1). The Larue offset works well because it aligns properly with the bore. LMT showed off a new offset mount (http://jerkingthetrigger.com/blog/2011/01/07/stat-international-and-lmt-qfss/) at Shot that does the same. There are other mounts and, again, some folks can make them work just fine but those that don't properly align to the bore are a bitch to zero and can generate weird POI shifts at different ranges.

The last advice I'd give is to spend some time swinging your rifle offhand and try to honestly decide whether it is in fact viable as a general run-and-gun rig from a weight perspective. My SPR is right on the edge, weight-wise, and your rig looks heavier than mine.

This is excellent advice...esp. the last part, I initially ran this setup on a 18" SPR build w. a nxs 2.5-10x32 and it was just to heavy to really ever think about running and gunning on the move with it. Once I ran it on 16" recce w. the 2.5-10x24, it was much more easy to run and gun and cant b/t primary and secondary optics.

eta...if you can run your offset t-1 like Oalocke's is than that is the optimal way to run a secondary. The further back you put the secondary RDS, the faster and easier it is to pick up it's sight picture when you cant. Note that the tricky part is balancing b/t glass mount, secondary mount, and then their locations on your said configuration.

blackbox
03-28-11, 08:20
thanks for the advice gentlemen! it looks like i'll be doing more OT and saving more money for parts to complete my weapon. be well all ;)

blackbox
04-03-11, 13:19
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/blackmagic619/DSC00015.jpg

Heres what it looks now. I purchased the offset mount for the t-1 and I think that it looks really nice. I'm waiting for the qd mount that will replace the rings shown here. I can't wait to go zero this in :D Thank you all for your help!

blackbox
04-03-11, 13:19
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/blackmagic619/DSC00015.jpg


This is what it looks now. I purchased the offset mount for the t-1 and I think that it looks really nice. I'm waiting for the qd mount that will replace the rings shown here. I can't wait to go zero this in :D Thank you all for your help!

Belmont31R
04-03-11, 21:38
Maybe just the angle of the pic but how do you have a full FOV with the aimpoint behind that giant front bell?

DMR
04-06-11, 20:51
Looks like a 1" tube with a 56mm bell? What's the mag range on that?

I think you are going to have a hard time finding a quality ring mount combo for that.

blackbox
04-07-11, 07:38
Maybe just the angle of the pic but how do you have a full FOV with the aimpoint behind that giant front bell?

~~ You're right, it doesn't clear the bell... IT SUCKSSSS!!! I need to find an alternative to use the T1. Any recommendations?



Looks like a 1" tube with a 56mm bell? What's the mag range on that? I think you are going to have a hard time finding a quality ring mount combo for that.

~~ I'm gonna try the LaRue SPR 1.93, I did some research and said that it'll work. It is a 1" tube with a 56mm bell. I really hope that it fits or else I'm gonna have a $200 paperweight. I haven't taken it to the range yet but its a 10x40.

DMR
04-09-11, 06:48
~~ You're right, it doesn't clear the bell... IT SUCKSSSS!!! I need to find an alternative to use the T1. Any recommendations?

You are going to need a rail mount to get the T-1 away from the optic. Knight, LaRue and Daniel Defense are the first names to come to mind. On the Knight and LaRue models the T-1 is directly attached to the mount. The DD has a rail which the T-1 rail grabber.

It is a 1" tube with a 56mm bell. I really hope that it fits or else I'm gonna have a $200 paperweight. I haven't taken it to the range yet but its a 10x40.
? It's a 10x40x56mm? I'm guessing Bakasa? Your original optic looked like a 3x9x40mm Leupold, probably 1"? If so you had a perfectly serviceable optic to start out with, you just needed good rings to go with it.

I cringe when I see rifles that are "over glassed". Giant objectives and super mag have thier place, but they are not optimal on a field orianted AR. Since you feel the need for a a T-1 in a off set mount field use vs shooting tiny groups at range is your implied requirement. Leupold has several entry level 3x9 1" optics that fit, and several other optic options come to mind as you move up the scale.

My preferred range on a precision are is a 2.5x10 or even a 3.5x10. I my 2.5x10 Nightforce NXS has at 32mm objective. I just recieved a Pride-Fowler 2.5x10 40mm and a 1x6 24mm to T&E. 40mm is about as big as I am willing to go for a AR even a 7.62 based one.

From what you appair to have on hand I would put you original scope in the LaRue mount that is in bound. Mount your T-1 configuration on it and start shooting. If you can return the big ass optic.

After you've put some rounds down range with it look at a higher priced 30mm model.

DMR
04-09-11, 08:04
Here are some samples using my DMR with a Danial Defense mount. I shoot left handed.
Insight MRDS, due to the hight of the MRDS this combo's not bad.
http://pro-patria.us/DMR/DMR-1.jpg

http://pro-patria.us/DMR/DMR-2.jpg

http://pro-patria.us/DMR/DMR-4.jpg

Aimpoint T-1 on the same DD Mount. It sits lower and I would need to change the location of my light to make it optimal.

http://pro-patria.us/DMR/DMR-5.jpg
If you use a cat tail you have to be aware of it when you set up your mount.
http://pro-patria.us/DMR/DMR-7.jpg

The T&E Pride-Fowler 1-6x with their red dot.
http://pro-patria.us/DMR/DMR-11.jpg

http://pro-patria.us/DMR/DMR-12.jpg
My Light Carbine set up with just the 1-4 NXS.
http://pro-patria.us/DMR/DMR-13.jpg

Within my prefered window, again I'm not sure that I like using a mini-red dot in conjuntion with a magnified optic. One of the reasons that I use a cat tail is to aid in managing the optic, also one of the reasons I don't like anything above 10x and want at least a 2.5 bottom end. I run the optic on it's lowest setting and only zoom up if I'm in a stationary position. If I'm going to move then I zoom down again.

Canting the rifle inboard to use the off set red dot takes some getting used to. If you don't have a lot of training time availible I would probably stick with just the primary optic and learn to manage it. I'm preety sure the PF was set up for a righty to shoot canted, but it's so high up I'm going to look into shooting it where it is currently.

I'm looking foward to T&Eing the Pride-Fowler. My NXS 1-4 is nice, but having the extra zoom on the PF along with the rapid reticle should make for a nice GP optic.

blackbox
04-09-11, 18:14
by DMR


Your original optic looked like a 3x9x40mm Leupold, probably 1"?

You are correct sir! I did have that set up and changed it to a sightmark tactical scope that is 10x40x56mm because I can't see the target after 150 yards. I paid $220 for it and wanted to try it out and see how it works out. I really do like the Leupold and it will go on the next weapon that I build. Your weapon looks amazing!

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/blackmagic619/DSC00025-2.jpg

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/blackmagic619/DSC00024-2.jpg