View Full Version : Custom build (first timer)
First off I just wanna say this is an awsome group of people on this site, everyone on here makes a new guy to the black rifle scene feel very comfortable with there wealth of knowlage and hospitality...with that said on to my problem, ive receintly became very interested in the M4 or black rifle. Ive ben a self proclamed gun nut, and im localy known as the gunsmith for my community.ive built a couple dozen custom 700 remingtons,a few 40x's, and im well known for my tricked out 10/22's..but ive never messed with any AR of any breed. But im lookin for a challenge and I beilieve a M4 is exactly what I need to ease my pain. So long story short im I need help choosin a basic platform to get started. One that is functinal, economial, and accurate..and of coarse easy on the eyes. Please remember I know as much about this gun as I do flyin commercial aircraft. So be gental and patient. Im lookin for a good upper, and lower mainly to shoot preditors and a little paper. But not anything worthy of national match. Any help would b greatly appriciated. Also prices ballpark guesses will wrk just to get a ruff idea. Thanks BRD III
What does "easy on the eyes" mean to you?
Any BCM carbine or midlength upper with MOE handguards would do you fine. You can order a BCM complete lower from Grant at G&R for about $350 or put together your own for a similar price - its not hard, you've obviously got some mechanical skill and with a little browsing here you could easily do it. The upper with bcg and handguards would run about $600 giving you a grand total of $950 give or take.
That would be an excellent starting point and you can always deck out the upper later. Every time I look at the pic threads here I get all these crazy ideas of how I want to reconfigure my current carbine upper :sarcastic: There are hundreds of ways to set up your weapon.
Is this a personal rifle?
Find a copy of TM 9-1005-249-23 RIFLE 5.56MM (or TM 9-1005-319-23 same manual newer edition), memorize it.
Start with THIS (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16%20bfh.htm), than add some Magpul MOE stuff. Pick a lower, and your set.
Start with THIS (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16%20bfh.htm), than add some Magpul MOE stuff. Pick a lower, and your set.
Would still need a BCG, & charging handle.
Would still need a BCG, & charging handle.
If figured that would be pretty obvious based of the description on the website. Which you would also get from BCM the same time with the rifle :)
what I ment by easy on the eyes is just a good lookin rig. Acuracy and reliabilty are most important but it has to look good as it functions.you know walk the walk if you will.
Yes this is a personal rifle, thats what makes it so hard to decide on. Im used to buildin rifles for customers and they are pretty straight foward. And hopefully I can use this gun to expand my bussness and let customers have somethin to try before they buy.
What is everyones opinion on a remington lower? Ive always ben a huge fan but this is a whole new ballgame.
bsmith_shoot
03-26-11, 22:48
what I ment by easy on the eyes is just a good lookin rig. Acuracy and reliabilty are most important but it has to look good as it functions.you know walk the walk if you will.
Yes this is a personal rifle, thats what makes it so hard to decide on. Im used to buildin rifles for customers and they are pretty straight foward. And hopefully I can use this gun to expand my bussness and let customers have somethin to try before they buy.
What is everyones opinion on a remington lower? Ive always ben a huge fan but this is a whole new ballgame.
Im from the school of thought that says, if your weapon does its job every time, its a sexy son-of-a-bitch! There are 2 reasons to own a "fighting" weapon; one is to punch paper and make friends at the range, the second is to use said weapon to defend the lives of those you love. Thats the only 2 reasons. Looks are objective, and an afterthought.
As far as the remington lower is concerned, a lower is a lower is a lower, if they are of quality fit and finish. I use Spikes a lot, cause they make good lowers, but I also use BCM and Colt, which are considered the pinnacle of AR "goodness". I reccomend you go with a know company, that has deep "roots" in the AR business. Try Colt, BCM, LMT, Spikes, DD, Mega, Noveske, etc...... All of these WILL be in spec, and WILL work on your chosen upper.
Your in a good spot that most of us dont find ourselves in often. You have the means to start from scratch. A lot of us have parts lying around, and decide to build off of them. If I was in your shoes, I would build slowly, as money builds up, and assemble the rifle that I wanted. Dont settle, do it right the first time.
Take my advice any way you want, but be sure to remember that if you buy quality parts, you just buy once.
If you'd like a Remington rollmark and don't have to pay too much extra for it, go for it. To me the rollmark means something since it's what other see when they inspect your rifle. And a rollmark like Colt or S&W can increase the selling price of a rifle if you ever had to do that. Conversely if your lower says Bob's Junkyard, well you get the idea.
What really matters are the LPK, stock kit and of course the upper receiver and you've had excellent recommendations already - BCM, DD, etc.
Is this a personal rifle?
Find a copy of TM 9-1005-249-23 RIFLE 5.56MM (or TM 9-1005-319-23 same manual newer edition), memorize it.
Were could I find a copy?
Were could I find a copy?
I got a hard copy from NTIS but it was like $30, I've seen them at gunshows too. Google provides e-copy http://www.ar15armory.com/manuals/TM9-1005-319-23.pdf
It explains how everything fits together. -.-
Google is your friend- search for TM 9-1005-319-23&P. I haven't seen change 8 on there, but the other ones will serve you well enough.
Were could I find a copy?
Thanks bssmith_shoot. Your opinoin sounds more like experiance than advice I like that. And what u said is very true, all that matters really is whats on the paper. But u got a good point on a self or home defence weapon, I pesonaly sleep with a colt gold cup 1911 in a holster on my head board and an 870 remington by the front door but I havent thought about using my m4 for defence and in a situation of that nature I dont care what it looks like as long as its realiable so I can defend my family and myself.
Im glad u mentioned colt, thats what I really had my heart set on so ill most likely go that route on my lower. But im not rushin I wanna get it right the firdt time, and im a bit of a perfectionest especialy wen it comes to my weapons.
Google is your friend- search for TM 9-1005-319-23&P. I haven't seen change 8 on there, but the other ones will serve you well enough.
Ok thanks I found a copy and orderd it. Theres a pretty big gunshow near by today im gonna see if I can find a copy there and go ahead and pick ot up so I can start memorizin it. I feel like im in the dark wenit comes to AR's and I wanna get up to speed fast
You shouldn't need to order it. It's a free download on one of the links I saw.
Ok thanks I found a copy and orderd it. Theres a pretty big gunshow near by today im gonna see if I can find a copy there and go ahead and pick ot up so I can start memorizin it. I feel like im in the dark wenit comes to AR's and I wanna get up to speed fast
Google is your friend- search for TM 9-1005-319-23&P. I haven't seen change 8 on there, but the other ones will serve you well enough.
If you'd like a Remington rollmark and don't have to pay too much extra for it, go for it. To me the rollmark means something since it's what other see when they inspect your rifle. And a rollmark like Colt or S&W can increase the selling price of a rifle if you ever had to do that. Conversely if your lower says Bob's Junkyard, well you get the idea.
What really matters are the LPK, stock kit and of course the upper receiver and you've had excellent recommendations already - BCM, DD, etc.
I really hate to sound dumb wen it comes to this stuff but lets face it I am and thats hard to admit because I call myself a smith and im suposed to know a little about everything that burns powder but anything AR is the exeption but im learnin. Could u be a little more clear on dd? I just wanna check it out and I dont know were to look.
You shouldn't need to order it. It's a free download on one of the links I saw.
I must have found the wrong thing or either its a hard copy ill double check. Thanks for catchin it.
Ok my next question. On my upper what should I go with on barrel length? What will give me the best accuracy out to lets say 300 meters? Im not expectin 1/4" moa or anything but I do reload but ive never wrkd on a load for a semiauto either. but I dont know if hand loading will wrk in this situatuation beacause of the sheer volume ill be goin thru. Yea thats one of the joys of having a 1000 meter range in your back yard u can birn as much powder as your wallet can stand.
Stay with a 16" unless you want to go the NFA route and do an SBR.
Ok my next question. On my upper what should I go with on barrel length? What will give me the best accuracy out to lets say 300 meters? Im not expectin 1/4" moa or anything but I do reload but ive never wrkd on a load for a semiauto either. but I dont know if hand loading will wrk in this situatuation beacause of the sheer volume ill be goin thru. Yea thats one of the joys of having a 1000 meter range in your back yard u can birn as much powder as your wallet can stand.
Stay with a 16" unless you want to go the NFA route and do an SBR.
??? Whats an SBR? Sorry like I said im new to all this thanks for bein pateint and all the help.
BRDIII, there are a few good stickies at the top of every sub-forum that are worth following. They'll lead you to some in depth information.
In a nutshell, there are only a few suppliers of raw lower receiver forgings. As long as they are machined within spec, properly treated and anodized, it matters little to the function of an AR as to which you select. It should take little effort to find a good lower for under under $100 before tax, fees & shipping. If you have your FFL, there is a company that offers lowers at bulk (don't recall who off hand) and I think they also offer custom markings.
For accuracy, the heart of the AR is the barrel and trigger. For reliability, it's the quality of the bolt carrier group, trigger, proper porting and springs. Also think MEAL- Magazines, Ejector*, Ammo, Lubrication. Most malfunctions in a properly assembled AR can be traced to one of these items. (*I think E is Ejector. Did a quick search for MEAL and a bunch of MRE threads popped up.)
Headspacing an AR is dirt simple if you buy an in-spec barrel assembly, which consists of the barrel and barrel extension. What they call the barrel extension is in reality, the working portion of the receiver. The upper receiver takes none of the stresses of firing the round. The barrel extension has the locking lug recesses and once the chamber is cut in the barrel, the barrel extension is headspaced to the barrel with a master bolt. This means that you can use any barrel assembly with any bolt without having to set the headspace your self. You only need to verify the headspace. Installing the barrel to the upper is simple.
When assembling my precision AR, I was amazed that no lapping or hand fitting was required. It was a simple matter of alignment, assembling, torque, staking (since the stock I selected didn't use a castle nut and the carrier already had the key staked, I did no staking), pinning and checking function. If you can build a Remington 700 or 40X, you'll quickly pick up the basics of AR assembly
PS- SBR stands for Short Barreled Rifle
Just so everone knows ive spent tne entire weekend doin nothin but eat, sleep, and breath AR so im making proggress in my quest in mastering the AR. I.just wanted to thank everyone for there help and patience. My next question is about the gas block. What do I need? The pros and cons and pinned verses nonpinned?
Also ive desided on a colt lower and ill be taking pics every step of my build and posting them as soon as my upper gets here and I ask a 1000 more questions lol. Thanks again everyone.
Thanks alot mist wolf you have ben a huge help. Ive clicked on every sticky I can find on this site and ive learned a ton of information it kinda embarasing that I missed all that and it was right there the entire time.
bsmith_shoot
03-27-11, 22:00
Just so everone knows ive spent tne entire weekend doin nothin but eat, sleep, and breath AR so im making proggress in my quest in mastering the AR. I.just wanted to thank everyone for there help and patience. My next question is about the gas block. What do I need? The pros and cons and pinned verses nonpinned?
Also ive desided on a colt lower and ill be taking pics every step of my build and posting them as soon as my upper gets here and I ask a 1000 more questions lol. Thanks again everyone.
Honestly, what I like to do is buy an upper with a standard front sight, and shave it with my dremmel and hacksaw. Ive done this with my last 3 uppers. Its easy, and cheaper.
By the way, you have made a great choice going with the Colt lower.
Yea I beilieve colt is my best choice im sure there is better out there but I got it brand new for $155.00 with all the guts. I thought that was a good price I know there usually alot more but I got a freind that owns a gun shop and he owes me a few favores. Its good to have freinds in low places.
Ok my next problem. What route do I need to take on a heat gaurd? For a carbine length barrel. What I mean is who makes a good one?
Why don't you do this. Tell us what you have decided to. For example;
1. What rail are you going to use?
2. What upper did you decide on?
3. Are you using a fixed FSB or a low pro.
Finally I think that you are seriously overthinking this. There has been plenty of information given out and you don't seem to be listening. Just an observation on my part.
Ok my next problem. What route do I need to take on a heat gaurd? For a carbine length barrel. What I mean is who makes a good one?
bsmith_shoot
03-28-11, 08:33
Ok my next problem. What route do I need to take on a heat gaurd? For a carbine length barrel. What I mean is who makes a good one?
By "heat guard", I assume you mean handguards, or rail system? If your using a standard front sight, the Magpul MOE is good. If you want rails, then good luck. Theres a thousand differant options, from a hundred differant manufacturers. I use Knights RAC if im not free-floating, but companies like DD, Yankee Hill, Troy, Midwest Industries, etc..... All make quality, tough as nails, options.
If you want more rail space, go with a lo-pro gas block, or shaved front sight, and use any manufacturer out there.
Yea rail system im sorry. Thats what I get for trying to post wen im half asleep. I knew what I wanted to say but it just came out wrong.
Your right there are thousands of rail systems out there. I went to my local gunshop today and they had twenty diffrent rails on the shelf.They had exactly what I had in mind so I bought it. Its a four sided picateny, and its a free flote rail.
It suprised me how much stuff I found at this shop. Ive only ben in there 200 times on the last 7 years and I never knew they had any AR parts. Its great cause I hate waitin on UPS they take forever to deiliver especially wen its my personal rifle parts im waitin on. The up side is its like christmas everytime that box truck pulls up lol.
I also picked up a 14.5" hammer forged flutted barrel. So im makin great progress on my build ill have pics soon. Thanks everyone for all the help especially bsmith_shoot and mist wolf. Now im lookin for literature on assembly. I want a hard copy so I can take it to work and study it and I can have it at the range for trouble shooting. Which I dont think will be a big problem beacause im using such high qaulity parts. But you never know. Dont forget what they said about the Titanic
Who makes the rail system and the barrel? You of course know that because the barrel is 14.5" inches you have to ensure that the flash hider is permed into place?
It seems as if you completely disregarded most of the good info here and did what you wanted. Which makes me wonder why you bothered to ask. :confused:
Yea rail system im sorry. Thats what I get for trying to post wen im half asleep. I knew what I wanted to say but it just came out wrong.
Your right there are thousands of rail systems out there. I went to my local gunshop today and they had twenty diffrent rails on the shelf.They had exactly what I had in mind so I bought it. Its a four sided picateny, and its a free flote rail.
It suprised me how much stuff I found at this shop. Ive only ben in there 200 times on the last 7 years and I never knew they had any AR parts. Its great cause I hate waitin on UPS they take forever to deiliver especially wen its my personal rifle parts im waitin on. The up side is its like christmas everytime that box truck pulls up lol.
I also picked up a 14.5" hammer forged flutted barrel. So im makin great progress on my build ill have pics soon. Thanks everyone for all the help especially bsmith_shoot and mist wolf. Now im lookin for literature on assembly. I want a hard copy so I can take it to work and study it and I can have it at the range for trouble shooting. Which I dont think will be a big problem beacause im using such high qaulity parts. But you never know. Dont forget what they said about the Titanic
No I used all of the info everyone gave and im very thankfull. But dont forget this is a personal rifle build. And everyone has diffrent opinions but in the end ill be the one using this build so my opinion matters the most and I have to be happy with the end result. So please dont think ive takin this help for granted because without everyone on here ide still b at page one and it would be blank.
And my barrels 16.5" im sorry I dont know y I said 14.5" thanks for catchin that.
Would you mind sharing with us your choice of barrel and rails?
No I used all of the info everyone gave and im very thankfull. But dont forget this is a personal rifle build. And everyone has diffrent opinions but in the end ill be the one using this build so my opinion matters the most and I have to be happy with the end result. So please dont think ive takin this help for granted because without everyone on here ide still b at page one and it would be blank.
And my barrels 16.5" im sorry I dont know y I said 14.5" thanks for catchin that.
Would you mind sharing with us your choice of barrel and rails?
I went with DD, they seem to built a high quality part for a decent price. Ive done some reaserch and thats the way im goin. Ill most likely use them for the rest of my build. And I feel comfortable doin that beacause everyone speaks so highly of them.
Any recomindations on a hard copy book for assembly? And were I may be able to find it. Ive googled it and found a few but I need one that has the basics. I dident know if anyone had a favorite copy?
So I just want to make sure I understand. You got a DD barrel and a rail system, correct?
I went with DD, they seem to built a high quality part for a decent price. Ive done some reaserch and thats the way im goin. Ill most likely use them for the rest of my build. And I feel comfortable doin that beacause everyone speaks so highly of them.
Any recomindations on a hard copy book for assembly? And were I may be able to find it. Ive googled it and found a few but I need one that has the basics. I dident know if anyone had a favorite copy?
Google is your friend- TM 9-1005-319-23&P. Be advised that you will also need to do whatever you are doing in conjunction with the instructions that come with said items.
I went with DD, they seem to built a high quality part for a decent price. Ive done some reaserch and thats the way im goin. Ill most likely use them for the rest of my build. And I feel comfortable doin that beacause everyone speaks so highly of them.
Any recomindations on a hard copy book for assembly? And were I may be able to find it. Ive googled it and found a few but I need one that has the basics. I dident know if anyone had a favorite copy?
Would you mind sharing with us your choice of barrel and rails?
So I just want to make sure I understand. You got a DD barrel and a rail system, correct?
Yea DD barrel and rail. Im using them for a majority of this build. Is that a hard copy?
A. I don't need a smart ass remark.
B. You are an admitted newbie and I wanted to make sure we were on the same page.
C. I didn't know that DD made fluted barrels.
Yea DD barrel and rail. Im using them for a majority of this build. Is that a hard copy?
I think we have a misunderstanding If I came across that way im sry. The last thing I want is to disrespect anyone on here because u and everyone else have ben a huge help. And without allthis help this build wouldent have happend. But ive always tried to let everyone know how thankful I am.
Your right I am a newbie and I really apriciate all the great help and I knew u were askin again to double check because I wasent clear.
My barrels not fluted thats another mistake on my part I was wrkn on a 700 remington wen I posted that and it was on my mind sry.
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