View Full Version : Newer AR Owner
I was recommended to use this forum because I was told I could get solid and truthful advice without major criticism. So, I'm posting this question because I'm at a fork in the road. I currently own a Rock River and I have it pretty much how I like it. I was told that my rifle was shit because it was too commercial. Now I’m not one to normally change my mind off of poor criticism but I investigated other brands and my research has brought me to Bravo Company. They seem to have a great reputation following them. So, here is the fork…Do I sell the RRA rifle and buy a BCM? I believe I can almost make it a wash.
Questions two – I currently have a middy; is there any advantage or disadvantage over the carbine?
I look forward to any advice or help offered. Thanks in advance.
Sell it get the BCM. The carbine maybe a little more reliable due to being over gassed when compared to a middy, but is also alot rougher on parts.
If it were me personally, yes, I'd probably sell it and get a BCM.
Or, you can upgrade what's needed on the RR, like staking the gas carrier key, getting a decent bolt, etc.
At the end of the day, yes, the BCM is indeed "professional grade", while the Rock River is "commercial grade".
RRA is a good rifle. Is it the best, no. If you are a operator on assignment or a officer on patrol you would want the very best (BCM, Colt, LMT, etc.) due to the possibility of your life being on the line.
If you are just killing paper then the RRA is fine. If you can break even and get a BCM, go for it. It will probably give you peace of mind.
I would stick with the mid-length gas system due to lighter recoil and additional rail space. Just personal preference. Hope this helps.
polymorpheous
03-26-11, 12:25
The good news is, due to name recognition, is that the RRA rifle will sell easily.
And you'll probably get a decent price for it.
You can put together a full BCM rifle using one of their blem lowers for less than $1000. Of course this is for a stock, vanilla BCM.
I'd personally make the switch.
kinda following along- if you can switch to BCM without it costing a lot, then i would.. but if it's gonna be $300 or more out of pocket, i'd just make some improvements to the weapon you have. RRA is not a "shit" rifle... i would never buy one, for a multitude of reasons that go beyond just it's specs, but if i had one, i wouldn't necessarily abandon it.
read the technical stickies... there's a thread specifically for people who already own commercial-grade rifles, and how to improve them. then decide if it's worth trading up.
welcome to the board
If you're the kind of guy that would have a Black and Decker drill because you only use it once in a while and B&D would probably be "good enough" for you, then the RRA may meet your needs and desires. If you're a Milwaukee power tool kind of guy, would prefer to have "professional grade" tools, sell the RRA and get the BCM. The price difference is low, the quality difference is vast and I've never heard anyone complain about having TOO reliable a rifle.
One more question. Is it difficult to get the lower receiver group from an FFL? Or is it as simple as going there with the form from the web site and a check?
If you buy a lower receiver or lower receiver group online, you will pay for it online and have to have it shipped to your local FFL (he will have to fax his FFL to the seller if they don't already have him in their FFL file). You can then pick it up from him, and fill out the 4473 form and he'll do the NICS. Usually, that FFL will charge a transfer fee. Typically (around here anyway) that would be about $25.
A firearm is the sum of it's parts. It's not that all of an RRA carbine is crapola, it's that certain parts critical to proper functioning have a higher than acceptable failure rate due to inferior specifications and/or assembly techniques. (It's interesting to note that the Service Rifle crowd, who put thousands of rounds a year through their rifles, find little to complain about the RRA with the exception of the trigger group. If they were shooting carbines, I believe that would change.)
What would give you greater peace of mind? Spending the money to upgrade your RRA carbine, or buying a new BCM? The answer to that will tell you what to do
(It's interesting to note that the Service Rifle crowd, who put thousands of rounds a year through their rifles, find little to complain about the RRA with the exception of the trigger group. If they were shooting carbines, I believe that would change.)
these guys do shoot "thousands," but not that many thousands, and they don't shoot the guns hard, which is what induces problems. if you slow-fire an olyarms for 10,000 rounds, cleaning every 200 or less, you probably won't have any problems.. but put 500 rounds through the same weapon in during a hard afternoon's training, you probably won't make it through without torn rims, stuck cases, short stroking from loose gas components, or your receiver extension falling off.
a BCM or other professional-grade stick will likely do 10,000 rounds, hard-fired, without any cleaning, and with minimal loob, without experiencing any recurring malfunctions or part failure.
I would consider keeping the lower and then just adding a good upper. This will keep costs down and you can make the changes yourself and avoid some headaches.
I would consider keeping the lower and then just adding a good upper. This will keep costs down and you can make the changes yourself and avoid some headaches.
+1 Bingo!! This is what I did with my RRA ET. I sold the upper and I plan on getting a BCM midlength upper with the Magpul stocks and maybe a surefire FH. I just have to "pull the trigger" as so as funds are available. ;)
I would consider keeping the lower and then just adding a good upper. This will keep costs down and you can make the changes yourself and avoid some headaches.
This is exactly what I would do.
these guys do shoot "thousands," but not that many thousands, and they don't shoot the guns hard, which is what induces problems. if you slow-fire an olyarms for 10,000 rounds, cleaning every 200 or less, you probably won't have any problems.. but put 500 rounds through the same weapon in during a hard afternoon's training, you probably won't make it through without torn rims, stuck cases, short stroking from loose gas components, or your receiver extension falling off.
a BCM or other professional-grade stick will likely do 10,000 rounds, hard-fired, without any cleaning, and with minimal loob, without experiencing any recurring malfunctions or part failure.
You are right and I do not dispute any of your points, nor am I attempting to "salvage" the reputation of a "Worst Tier" carbine. Just pointing out that it seems that it's the carbine that's giving RRA a bad name while their rifle shines. My belief is that this is so because the rifle is a much more forgiving variation than the carbine. I think if Service Matches were shot strictly with carbines, the good reputation RRA has among Service Match shooters would be severely diminished. While I believe the reliability of an RRA rifle is better than an RRA carbine, I think if Service Rifle shooters attended a carbine class with their RRA rifles, they would be in for an unpleasant surprise
Ok guys, please don't crucify me with this question. Like I said I'm newer and still learning much. I understand looking at one; the difference between a carbine and a rifle (middy) but mechanically don't they share the same parts? So I guess my question is what is the major differences and similarities?
A Carbine has the Gas Port at 7" and a Rifle has the Gas Port at 12" (I think it's 12") and a Mid-Length has the Gas Port at 9".
Even though the overall length of a Middy can be the same as a Carbine, when you see "Carbine" it refers to a 7" Gas Ported action.
The location of a standard A-frame-type Front Sight Base, generally determines the length of the Hand Guard. So, the farther out for the Gas Port, the longer the Hand Guard.
There are 1000's of psi differences between each length. The longer Rifle has the lowest pressure, so it has a less violent action. The Carbine functions at a considerable higher gas pressure, so it is more violent.
.
arizonaranchman
03-27-11, 12:52
I would consider keeping the lower and then just adding a good upper. This will keep costs down and you can make the changes yourself and avoid some headaches.
Exactly. Just get a complete BCM upper/BCG/CH of your choice. You can retain the RRA lower reciever and simply change-out the parts with high grade replacements as your budget allows. Eventually there's nothing RRA or Bushmaster, etc left except the stamping on the side of the reciever.
Grant at G&R can fix you up with any parts you need to upgrade over time.
Thanks everyone for the help. I sold my current RRA to my friend and purchased the following:
BCM Bolt Carrier Group
BCM Standard 16" M4 Carbine Upper Receiver Group
Daniel Defense Omega Rail 7 Carbine
BCM Lower Receiver Group
I think I will be much happier. Thanks again!
Good deal. Let us know how it goes.
Thanks everyone for the help. I sold my current RRA to my friend and purchased the following:
BCM Bolt Carrier Group
BCM Standard 16" M4 Carbine Upper Receiver Group
Daniel Defense Omega Rail 7 Carbine
BCM Lower Receiver Group
I think I will be much happier. Thanks again!
Wow, that was quick. Good move!
Smart move. You'll enjoy the rifle as well as the piece of mind it brings.
Thanks again guys. All upper parts are in. Pictures to follow soon.
Upper complete with the exception of the rear iron site. Just got word that my lower will ship to my FFL tomorrow. http://184.72.239.143/mu/4c1dd967-3256-80ee.jpg
http://184.72.239.143/mu/4c1dd967-326b-24c6.jpg
http://184.72.239.143/mu/4c1dd967-327a-e31f.jpg
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