View Full Version : Do you support your local gun stores?
Blue Ridge
03-27-11, 11:11
My local range is run by nice helpful guys. I tend to only shoot there when weather is bad, and try to NEVER buy ammo there, because it's roughly twice the price of the pawn shop I pass on my way there. Their transfer fees are 3 times what I pay from my local FFL. But I get my gunsmithing, bore sighting, etc. there and would like to support them, as I own a retail store myself and understand the costs of overhead. Well, they have a PPS for sale for $689. That's $97 more than online, plus sales tax. I really want to support local stores, but $147 out the door is a lot. I haven't spent a dime there with my AR build, other than having them pin the flash hider. I don't want to beat the guys up on their price, but I'd hate to buy online if they could get close to that price if I asked. On one hand, I don't feel it can hurt to ask, but on the other I don't want to offend them or be "that guy" who wants everything near cost. But perhaps "that guy" who walks in with new guns/accessories every few months they didn't buy there is worse?
I do support a few local stores, but to be honest most of the local B&M shops seem to be out to cornhole you at every opportunity. Example - PMAGs at $28?!?!?
Nope. The people that work there are dumber than snail shit, and they're prices are insane. I actually enjoy going to a gunstore about as much as going to get my prostate checked. The stuff that I hear people talking about makes my head feel like exploding. I wish it wasn't this way but it is what it is.
polymorpheous
03-27-11, 11:19
We've got 3 in the Milwaukee area.
The only one worth going to seems to mark everything up 100%
$400 for a complete M&P15 lower.
Used Gen3 Glocks for the list price of new.
I'll pick up small stuff like QD swivels and Magpul parts.
They don't mark it up as much and it pretty much would be the same online after shipping.
Leonidas24
03-27-11, 11:19
I've special ordered a lot of parts from a local shop when Rainier or BCM is sold out online. I still can't buy M16 BCGs from them though, those require a Class III. :rolleyes:
jonconsiglio
03-27-11, 11:20
My local shops are highly overpriced and charge $40 on transfers. One I won't do business with anymore after watching them forget to send in a friend's paperwork on a suppressor or SBR for 3 months and continually charge him near msrp after spending probably $50,000 in two years, give or take. Two guys there are really decent guys, but I just don't like some stuff I've seen.
Now the other one with an indoor range has high prices, but try to work with you. They also let me shoot for free a couple times a week when it's normally $15 an hour. I know the guys pretty well and they're good to me there, letting me use the range, specialty tools I don't have, etc. So, I will buy some guns from them to support them from time to time, usually handguns. I also try to buy all the smaller things I need like cleaning supplies, bags and cases if they have good ones in stock, gun safe, etc.
Jonathan
I have a local store and the owner is a good friend. I buy a fair amount of stuff from him, but not everything. He became a Noveske dealer so that I could order a complete rifle and a couple of lowers from them, and I usually order parts and accessories from him if time isn't important, but for smaller parts and accessories I usually order online. He is not very knowledgeable on AR's (hadn't heard of Noveske until I asked him to order a rifle from them) but he works hard a being competitive in price and providing good service.
There's a local shop that stocks all the good brands you typically see recommended here. I buy stuff there when prices are competitive, but they have a alot of items that are way overpriced compared to what you can buy for online. However, they also have things that aren't overpriced. I usually check prices online before heading over there and then decide when I see what they're charging for a particular item. I would rather buy locally and support my local businesses all the time, but I have to work a part-time job to pay for gun purchases, etc. so I need to make every dollar count.
I do sometimes but you have to realize the way the Internet has affected Brick & Mortar Stores.
Now days they have to offer something that you can't get by clicking on the Internet.
It may be knowledge, service, availability, not having to wait....but it needs to be something, IMO to pay more for.
If I already know what I need, don't need help, can wait then why not pay less and have it delivered to your door.
This has changed the way we all do business and not just gun stores.
Another significant factor is sales taxes on high dollar purchases.
Freight can be prohibitive on some items (like heavy ammo) but not so in many cases.
My advice is don't complain about the quality of retail salesmen when you aren't willing to pay for their service.
No more, they want $50 per transfer even if it is multiple guns that they don't carry. I say screw them, I used to buy tons of stuff from them, but no more after they pulled that crap on me. I was a great customer and they lost my business when they got greedy.
I use 2 local shops depending on how much in a hurry im in or when Im getting a saturday off mainly for transfer's but once in a while I'll get a handgun from a shop in manassas.
I do... but then there aren´t any big retail stores that carry firearms or online shops to order from in my country. Only about six or seven small gun shops in Luxembourg. Helps to keep a good overview though :D
I try to when I can. I did exclusively at one time but I got tired some of the shops treating me like shit, and the others rarely having what I want or a good price on it.
The local well known "fun" shop is always crowded. I have waited 30-40 mins sometimes just to see something. Prices vary from high to sometimes competitive. If they have something in stock that you want, ok. They will order stuff for you......for a price. No transfers at all. CS varies. The selection is ok, every now and then I see an LMT, S&W or Colt. Mostly Bushys, DPMS, RRA. Ammo is a little on the high side, $17 for .45 box of 50 and $12-13 for 9mm box of 50. That is for the brass cased stuff, Blazer is cheaper. The store is close to my house and is nice to look around in. Yes, I have bought Firearms from them in the past, not so much anymore. Mostly internet and then a transfer to another dealer.
glockshooter
03-27-11, 11:55
Lumping all the local gun shops together is stupid. Not all gun shops have stupid people and overpriced inventory. There are plenty of shops that do things the right way. A few that come to mind are the shop that Robb Jensen works at, the shop I used to work at, and the shop that my father opened a few months ago. Hell I am sure Grant's shop started out as a small local shop before he started all the online stuff. If you dont have a quality shop near you then by all means buy online, but if there is a good quality shop near you give them some business.
I think people forget that the little guys are usually the ones that you actually go to when there is a problem with your stuff. I am not saying go spend $100 over what you can find things for online, I just saying when all the little guys are gone where are you going to send your transfers. I recommend finding a good store with quality people and giving them the chance to earn your business.
Matt
I use one Guy to do the transfers and that is about it .Ammo to high weapons Over priced and not the good stuff either,Employees act like the customers are stupid which most of them are as far as being informed and Sell them what they think they Need .I have tried and helped a few in the store when I am there and they don't like that at all. I get the dagger eyes from the Staff
I had one i use to do all My shopping with , But He retired and his daughter took over and ran most of us 20 year and plus Customers Away:(
Blue Ridge
03-27-11, 11:56
Ammo is a little on the high side, $17 for .45 box of 50 and $12-13 for 9mm box of 50. That is for the brass cased stuff, Blazer is cheaper.
That's high? Those prices are exactly what I pay from the pawn shop, and the range is almost double that. I figured with the weight of ammo, buying under 1,000 rounds wouldn't be much savings except for .22lr.
I usually shop around online before any major purchase, as most of you probably do. I usually use the gun shops to browse and actually get a feel for the item I may be buying before making a final decision. If their price is right, I will buy from them, if not I will purchase online.
I try to. Some things are just waaaay cheaper online,usually of better quality, AR lowers, ammo, for example. But I bought my Glock at full retail from my normal ffl.
yes and no, My "local" shop is run by a complete moron and should be shut down by the ATF.
But I do shop in my surrounding area.
Quiet-Matt
03-27-11, 12:11
Nope. The only one I even enter anymore is the local cop shop. We are sorely lacking on gus stores in this area, we have one that is less than 1 mile from my driveway but they suck. Getting a question answered with something besides what they read in some gun rag is not going to happen. It's like going to a gun show, with all the talk of how "if you shoot somebody with a .45 their spinal cord will blow out their ass" or some crap like that. :rolleyes: I just can't take it anymore. If it aint DPMS, it aint shi*.:ph34r: Right?
Mr. Goodtimes
03-27-11, 12:14
I'll support my local gun shops when the price is right. All the local shops around here rape you on guns and ammo though for the most part. The guy I use has a nice little shop, however, I only use him for transfers. He doesn't stock much and carries the usuall junk accessories.
I would kill to have a place around here like G&R or Grey Group, Rainier, etc...
One of my other gun shops close by is a Gander Mountain. One had better do a lot of research before shopping there because you never know what is going to come out of the mouths of their various sales people. They have a large selection of most major brands, though, and it's a good place to go to handle the weapons and look them over closely. It would be unusual for me to purchase one there, though...their prices are strict retail and even with a LE discount or local gun club discount, they're still high.
There's a Cabelas a little farther down the road. They tend to be more knowledgeable on a hit-or-miss basis, but they are more likely come off with the attitude that they are doing you a huge favor by giving you advice, and don't like being cornered with difficult questions.
One thing I have learned from dealing with the local Cabelas and local Gander Mountain....I can readily understand how DPMS sells as many rifles as they do.
yes and no, My "local" shop is run by a complete moron and should be shut down by the ATF.
But I do shop in my surrounding area.
we had a shop like this and every time and I mean every time someone walked through the door the guys behind the counters would put their hand on there sidearm and look at you like you are a crook:confused:
they sold a lot of AK and AR.But they Pissed off a Chief Of police in civilian clothes and didn't know it ,soon after that the ATF raided them and they got shut down paper work was done by what looked like a 5 year old and they where known for the straw man purchase with the Local Thugs.
I heard from a LE friend the ATF sent in a undercover to Buy Multiple Purchases with thug look alikes pointing out What they wanted and they pulled a wad of cash out and the owner was fine with it .Bad mistake:rolleyes:
I do buy locally, but it helps that my local store is G&R! :dance3:
I try to, but the shop down the street is just a joke sometimes. $385 for a S&W mp15 lower, $75 for transfers if they will even do it. And if you order something for him to transfer he wont do it with out a markup AND a transfer fee.
Cesiumsponge
03-27-11, 12:39
I have several reasonable stores to select from, and on top of that live by Rainier Arms. Rainier does a majority of it's business online because Joe Gunowner isn't going to walk into their showroom and pick out a $2000 Noveske and throw a $1000 ACOG on it. If Rainier was purely a brick and mortar store, they wouldn't be in business because the fightin' AR market is too specialized. It wasn't that long ago that they had no actual storefront. It also keeps out a lot of the armchair commandos because Rainier only carries top tier items in the showroom and most folks dropping that kind of dime know what they're after. They also work exclusively with ARs so their staff are less sales-y and more informative, and their gunsmith will obviously be familiar with the platform. You're not going to end up with a "gunsmith" that only works on walnut-stocked firearms.
One must also realize that gun stores make the most money on nickel and dime items. Guns themselves usually (not always) have the lowest markup while accessories are where bills are paid. I'm aware of some of the distributor-level pricing on gear versus MSRP or street price. Even with sales discounts, they make a fair profit off of those items and they rightfully should. If everything they sold was only 5-10% over dealer cost, they wouldn't be in business very long unless they move a ridiculous volume of goods. Now...if you're marking stuff up beyond MSRP...that is an asshat move and you'll start losing more educated customers who know what things should cost.
MRevolutionIX
03-27-11, 12:46
I usually give my local guys a fair chance to earn my business. I let them know what I want and what I can get it for online. I'll give them a chance to compete and if it is +/- $20 difference then I will go with somebody local.
Gunfighter 9
03-27-11, 12:48
I have two choices for gun stores. One is a chain sporting goods place and the other is more pawn shop than gun store. Neither one has a good selection or even competitive prices. Most of the time since I am not a hunter they don't even carry any of what I am looking for. Ammo is usually over priced and limited in selection of both caliber and brand. In fact, these places are both so poorly run that they didn't even carry a crush washer, or any replacement parts of any kind. As for accessories they pawn off airsoft rebrands such as UTG, and tac-star at inflated prices. To be quite honest if they could offer me anything I wanted I would do business with them, but they don't, and I won't buy sub-par crap just to support the little guy. The only time I send them business is when I use them to facilitate an FFL transfer.
Rattlehead
03-27-11, 12:52
I support them when I can. I go there for all transfers, and they are usually the first place I'll go looking for a handgun. As far as AR's and AR accessories go, I have yet to find a shop that sells high end stuff in my area. It just so happens that the people at my local store are friends of mine, so sometimes I'll just go to see how things are going.
I like seeing local gun shops packed, and it's unfortunate that they are usually overpriced, but that's the way they stay in business. Plus, the area I'm in isn't exactly a hot spot for gun sales.
I'll usually look around the buy/sell/trade forums before I go out and buy something at a store though. Especially if it's for something like a Surefire.
Cesiumsponge
03-27-11, 12:56
I have two choices for gun stores. One is a chain sporting goods place and the other is more pawn shop than gun store. Neither one has a good selection or even competitive prices. Most of the time since I am not a hunter they don't even carry any of what I am looking for. Ammo is usually over priced and limited in selection of both caliber and brand. In fact, these places are both so poorly run that they didn't even carry a crush washer, or any replacement parts of any kind. As for accessories they pawn off airsoft rebrands such as UTG, and tac-star at inflated prices. To be quite honest if they could offer me anything I wanted I would do business with them, but they don't, and I won't buy sub-par crap just to support the little guy. The only time I send them business is when I use them to facilitate an FFL transfer.
Selling questionable accessories is a pretty dirty game, in my opinion. I see a lot of that in local stores, but it's not limited to just rail interface systems. It includes weird, non-mainstream optics or laser brands I haven't even heard of. Some of them aren't cheap either.
At least Bushmasters or DPMS, common entry-level stock at most general gun stores, can be made reasonable with some staking and a couple quick fixes. You can't take a wrench to a lousy rail or piece of bad glass. I am hoping most folks that end up with that stuff is a range rat and not putting it on duty as a bump-in-the-night-gun.
I know every single gun shop / owner / shop worker in my area. Only 1 of them does not try to rape the consumer.
The area i spend most of my time has several gun shops. A few have attitudes but there are enough good ones to choose from. When buying a high dollar gun the tax issue is hard to ignore. I mainly use one store for all transfers at $15. Which is very fair to me so i still buy a few guns a year from them. Remember if we dont keep enough business local there won't be any place to do transfers. Each time i have the local shop do a transfer i will buy something in store.
Not much, most are selling things way over priced and in general they seem to be ass clowns. :suicide2:
V/r
Uglyguns
JeepDriver
03-27-11, 13:07
I use to work part time for a local range, even then the prices I could get things online for usually was only a few dollars over their cost, and I can get things much quicker online.
Now that I'm no longer working there, most of my buying is online. Aside from the odd small thing I don't bother with the local places.
I have a good little gun shop that just opened up and has really good prices and when they cant help me I drive 40 mins and go to Palmetto State Armory
I heard from a LE friend the ATF sent in a undercover to Buy Multiple Purchases with thug look alikes pointing out What they wanted and they pulled a wad of cash out and the owner was fine with it .Bad mistake:rolleyes:
Awesome... Straw purchases were the big thing when I worked for Bass pro. The ATF was always looking for the guys that would come up from mexico and buy FN pistol chambered in 5.7x28. The same woman would come into the store and buy two or three on a monthly basis. The guys she was buying for would be hanging around the aisles near the counter watching, and walk by and try fondle the gun and walk away.
On topic though, I was turned onto a decent store by a member here. He carried better cleaning supplies and small parts than the other store I had been going to because I didn't know of any other shops out there. He also seemes pretty helpful, I'll be going back.
BlackWidow
03-27-11, 13:34
We buy alot of our ammo from a local sporting goods store (Jay's Sporting Goods) because its a must to at least help your local economy when you can. They also employ a good number of people in the area. While we could easily go direct and get ammo, we choose to support them. I make it a point to grab something local when I can.
mkmckinley
03-27-11, 13:38
I feel pretty lucky to live near some great local shops in the Seattle area. Rainier Arms is the best retailer I've ever seen for AR stuff: Good prices, knowledgable staff and a really nice sales floor. Plus they keep just about anything you could ask for in stock. I've actually heard them talk customer out of more expensive piston uppers and things that they don't need. At the same time if you show up and ask for something they dont have in stock they dont try to talk you into something else, they offerto order you what you asked for. I go to West Coast Armory for handguns because they can get me LE/MIL prices on most of them and have the best indoor rifle/pistol range. Surplus Ammo and Arms has ammo prices that beat most online stores and I don have to pay shipping. Now if only I could do NFA stuff in this state.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-27-11, 13:38
Local 9mm: 18.99 for a box of 50 WWb 9mm
Local G19: $610 OTD
Local JD Stripped Lowers: $210 OTD
Local transfer charge: $70
Ya, no thanks.
MOUNT-N-SLOT
03-27-11, 13:54
IWC supports our local shop, Jensen's Arms, in Loveland, CO. They are a first rate tactical Class 3 PPF, who moves such a volume, they often, more then not, have the ability to beat web stores on price. They also stock a wide range of firearms from every top mfg's, as well as some not so common (they have 6 JP AR's). They also supply suppressors, and SBR AR uppers. The thing that makes us support them is their commitment to inventory on the shelves. Both Magpul and IWC have used them for evaluation firearms, components and their opinions. The owner, Bob Jensen is connected to every manufacturer in the Industry, has seen it all and most importantly, shares his experience and knowledge with us.
Their service is kinda' like "The Soup Nazi" on Seinfeld. I for one enjoy the experience. ;)
MOUNT-N-SLOT
I will also add to my above post that the only shop in our area that is not taking advantage of the customers is only about 1 year new. Needless to say the local stranglehold by the long time shops is taking a beating. They are not happy that this shop is offering internet type pricing. On the plus side this new shop is moving to a location that is bout 4-5 times as large.
The old time shops have been holding the locals hostage for decades. Screw em I say. Offer fair pricing or go under. Plain and simple. Good thing this new shop beat me to it. Retirement was not too far around the corner.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-27-11, 14:03
IWC supports our local shop, Jensen's Arms, in Loveland, CO. They are a first rate tactical Class 3 PPF, who moves such a volume, they often, more then not, have the ability to beat web stores on price. They also stock a wide range of firearms from every top mfg's, as well as some not so common (they have 6 JP AR's). They also supply suppressors, and SBR AR uppers. The thing that makes us support them is their commitment to inventory on the shelves. Both Magpul and IWC have used them for evaluation firearms, components and their opinions. The owner, Bob Jensen is connected to every manufacturer in the Industry, has seen it all and most importantly, shares his experience and knowledge with us.
Their service is kinda' like "The Soup Nazi" on Seinfeld. I for one enjoy the experience. ;)
MOUNT-N-SLOT
I grew up in Loveland. Went to Jensen Arms as a kid when it was in downtown with my father and drooled over the black rifles there. As soon as I was 18 I started spending booku bucks at Jensens. Ive probably spent a good $10000 there over the last 5 or 6 years. Everytime I come home on leave I generally go in and buy a pistol, Bob usually lets me have a big discount for being a Marine. The last time I went though (Dec 2010) it seemed that the quality and quantity of black rifles was waning off. Less Noveske, LMT, and Colt, but more Bushmasters and DPMS. Also, I couldn't find Ray anywhere, he was my "gun guy". The shop still has more than most gun stores in the US, but the "soup nazi" comment was dead on. If you want to shop at Jensen's, you will get good prices and a huge availability, but it's almost a guarantee to here alot of bullshit, and to be treated like a child. Be assertive, be informed, and walk out of that store with an empty wallet!
variablebinary
03-27-11, 14:03
I support shops that support me by not raping my rump on prices.
Yes, I shop at one local store because he has realistic prices and great customer service.
He has a decent stock as far as guns and parts go, especially considering what you can usually buy in town at the other stores.
Other stores in town charge ridiculous prices and have poor CS. I'll be damned if I'm going to rip myself off to support a "local" gunstore that doesn't give a shit about CS. That dog don't hunt, no sir.
warlord260
03-27-11, 14:17
If the prices are right i shop local. If not i have to figure what is better, tax, or shipping.
Work in Lakewood Wa. Quantico Tactical, and Surplus Ammo, are fairly good to me.
If the prices are right i shop local. If not i have to figure what is better, tax, or shipping.
Work in Lakewood Wa. Quantico Tactical, and Surplus Ammo, are fairly good to me.
I agree with those 2 but prefer the Surplus Shop over Quantico. I buy ALL my ammo and parts from Surplus Ammo..plus they have PMAGs for $15, though the shops cockyness is less then desirable
The Marksman in Puyallup has gotten my business for every firearm I have bought. Plus there range fee's are cheap for MIL/LEO guys. I read reviews before I visited them but I still to this day have not seen the bad service that people have claimed.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-27-11, 14:39
I agree with those 2 but prefer the Surplus Shop over Quantico. I buy ALL my ammo and parts from Surplus Ammo, those the shops cockyness is less then desirable
The Marksman in Puyallup has gotten my business for every firearm I have bought. Plus there range fee's are cheap for MIL/LEO guys. I read reviews before I visited them but I still to this day have not seen the bad service that people have claimed.
We've got a Quantico Tactical in Oceanside. I've never hated a store front more than I HATE this store.
Kruggy5.56
03-27-11, 14:43
Theres one local shop that I deal with, and not because of there knowledge. They run big ammo sales, federal 5.56-$5.99, AE 308-$8.99, 9mm under $10 a box, plus a indoor gun range. As for AR-stuff no, $19.99 for the same G.I mags(w/green followers) I get from BCM for $8.99, and I do mean the same. They had a decent selection of AR as of yesterday, DPMS to KAC and DD, also had S&W 15 for $799. So other then getting ammo, or some odds and ends of hunting stuff, I order online.
In Texas I did. In Texas there are enough gun stores out there and enough experience that you would usually get the answer you were looking for at a reasonable price. In such cases, unless the price difference was huge, I would give to the local guy.
In Kalifornia it is different. There is less competition between the stores and a "we are the only store in the area so take it or leave it" attitude prevails, so I usually leave it. If I need something quick - I'll bite, but usually I can get it from Brownells in just a few days and at a discount, so I don't even bother. I'm not so sure my money is going to supporting my rights in Kalifornia as the last shop I went to seemed to support the ban on mail order ammo (self serving no doubt). Also, there is no telling what kind of lie you will here spouted from the mouth of your typical Kalifornia gun store employee - it make TOS look like a bunch of straight shooters.
IF ONLY I lived near Bob Jensen's still :(
Six Feet Under
03-27-11, 15:56
I go in my local shop from time to time, but nothing ever changes in there. They mostly cater to fudds, although they do sell suppressors and do NFA transfers. God knows what they'd charge for it, their regular transfer rate is $50 each. They sell C-Products 30 round AR mags for $24.99 each (or Brownells, if they're out of C-Products ones). Their Colt 7rd 1911 mags are $14.99 each (same ones I got at a gun show during the Obama-mania for $7.00 each) and their ammo is ass rape. The CHEAPEST .223 they've got is $8.99 or $9.99 a box. Glock mags of any style are $35 each and pistol ammo is at least $4-5 a box higher than Wal-Mart.
Plus they have absolutely no clue about anything when you ask them detailed questions. It's like they've got the manufacturer website pulled up, and can read you specs you could read off the tag hanging on the gun, but past that it's a no-go. My friend and I walked in there a few weeks ago and he wanted to get a Rossi .357 lever gun to put on his airboat for hogs, they had one in stock and had listed it on Gun Broker and told my buddy (who had cash in hand and wanted to buy it right then) he could go home and bid on it, but it is illegal to end auctions early. :rolleyes:
I'll stick to places that have proven they want my business. Gun Gallery in Jacksonville is one of those places, whenever I do NFA stuff I plan on having the transfer done through them. One of their employees offered to bring me a Glock sight tool to use at a rifle match I attended and let me use it for free instead of me buying one online. THAT is the kind of stuff that determines who I give my money to if prices are close to equal.
The pawn shop I do transfers with tries to pull shit on me occasionally (twice in four years) but they charge $25 for the transfer and $5 for a BG check. I don't ever buy anything there, but all they do is take delivery and give me a box, for $30. Big ****in' deal.
I think the best prices I've seen in a gun store were at the Outpost Armory in Murfreesboro, TN. I got some AR parts there and it was only a couple dollars more (and in some cases, a few less) than I would've paid for the same thing online.
The customer service at just about any online place I've ordered from (that I've had to deal with, anyways) was better than the shop here, and my UPS guy is nice too. Why would I want to get treated like ass and pay an extra $100 to do so? They have a bottom line, but I do too.
I've seen this before and it is so true; gun stores are primarily run by firearm enthusiasts, not businessmen.
I go in my local shop from time to time, but nothing ever changes in there. They mostly cater to fudds, although they do sell suppressors and do NFA transfers. God knows what they'd charge for it, their regular transfer rate is $50 each. They sell C-Products 30 round AR mags for $24.99 each (or Brownells, if they're out of C-Products ones). Their Colt 7rd 1911 mags are $14.99 each (same ones I got at a gun show during the Obama-mania for $7.00 each) and their ammo is ass rape. The CHEAPEST .223 they've got is $8.99 or $9.99 a box. Glock mags of any style are $35 each and pistol ammo is at least $4-5 a box higher than Wal-Mart.
Plus they have absolutely no clue about anything when you ask them detailed questions. It's like they've got the manufacturer website pulled up, and can read you specs you could read off the tag hanging on the gun, but past that it's a no-go. My friend and I walked in there a few weeks ago and he wanted to get a Rossi .357 lever gun to put on his airboat for hogs, they had one in stock and had listed it on Gun Broker and told my buddy (who had cash in hand and wanted to buy it right then) he could go home and bid on it, but it is illegal to end auctions early. :rolleyes:
I'll stick to places that have proven they want my business. Gun Gallery in Jacksonville is one of those places, whenever I do NFA stuff I plan on having the transfer done through them. One of their employees offered to bring me a Glock sight tool to use at a rifle match I attended and let me use it for free instead of me buying one online. THAT is the kind of stuff that determines who I give my money to if prices are close to equal.
The pawn shop I do transfers with tries to pull shit on me occasionally (twice in four years) but they charge $25 for the transfer and $5 for a BG check. I don't ever buy anything there, but all they do is take delivery and give me a box, for $30. Big ****in' deal.
I think the best prices I've seen in a gun store were at the Outpost Armory in Murfreesboro, TN. I got some AR parts there and it was only a couple dollars more (and in some cases, a few less) than I would've paid for the same thing online.
The customer service at just about any online place I've ordered from (that I've had to deal with, anyways) was better than the shop here, and my UPS guy is nice too. Why would I want to get treated like ass and pay an extra $100 to do so? They have a bottom line, but I do too.
I've seen this before and it is so true; gun stores are primarily run by firearm enthusiasts, not businessmen.
They recently quoted me a price of $150 for a rear sight that I could order directly from the manufacturer for $110.
I didn't mention them by name in my previous post, but they can be hit or miss price-wise in my experience. They do carry a lot of nice stuff in the store though.
eternal24k
03-27-11, 16:26
i give them first refusal, solong as price is competitive. I also give them tons of business in transfers
Chose the "Seldom" from above. If purchasing from local area, it's RA LLC. in Auburn.
jklaughrey
03-27-11, 17:04
I do transfers and that is about it. Although one in my area has hired on a retired officer and he has been changing the shops focus towards M4C type crowd versus "Fudd" hunter/dirt shooter. Hopefully they will be better stocked and carry parts in the future.
I've seen this before and it is so true; gun stores are primarily run by firearm enthusiasts, not businessmen.
I think firearms enthusiast[s] might be a strong term, figure someone who's into guns would know more about them. I'd say they were run like gas stations. You have to buy gas there and a candy bar costs 2X what it does at the grocery store.
Haven't been to one in years though.
I support who ever has the lowest prices, and usually that is the internet.
I usually give my local guys a fair chance to earn my business. I let them know what I want and what I can get it for online. I'll give them a chance to compete and if it is +/- $20 difference then I will go with somebody local.
+1
For little stuff, like bricks of .22lr, the local hardware store's ammo counter is as cheap as the internet (plus shipping).
There's also a certain satisfaction in knowing that I've bought exactly the right item, right now.
For bigger stuff, I view their price tags as their "offered at" prices. I'm not afraid to ask if they can lower their price.
It's hard to blame a retailer for charging some sucker full price, if they can, but if they won't budge, then I move on — no harm, no faul.
If they're willing to make a deal, then I'd rather deal with a local and save the FFL fees and the hassle, and I do like the idea of supporting the local economy and especially local firearms/ammo dealers.
Anything they stock or can get I buy from my 2 local shops. For the stuff they don't stock or can't get from a distributor they have a gun broker account and can get you just about anything on there.
Grumpy MSG
03-27-11, 17:53
It is tough to say which I have done more of...
I do support several local gun shops/ outfitters and I do prefer to give them first shot at selling me something, if I can get a $450 Internet scope for $475-500, I will buy it there. If it something that they don't understand like Eotechs or Aimpoints, I will go to several of the online vendors that I have had success with. The dealer closest to home has always been competitive with traditional firearms like Remington 700s and 870s and Mossberg 500s, and is only slightly higher than Walmart (I am willing to pay an extra $25-50 to help ensure they are around when I need them, plus they will order exactly what you want, not just what is in the Wally world case. Another shop is closer to work and they have a better selection of ammo and reloading supplies and about a half hour north of home is a third shop which specializes in tactical firearms.
I try to support my local gun stores. There are only 3 worth going to. One of them always has the lowest prices on guns, ammo and reloading components in the state, although not lower than the best internet price. A second local store has ok prices but service is sooooooooo slooooooooow I can hardly stand it. The third store has great service and I like the people that work there, but their prices are too high. $32 for a pound of powder. $15 ABOVE SUGGESTED RETAIL for a Magpul MOE buttstock. So I find it hard to buy things there.
I do support local gun stores.....just not the local gun stores in my area. I buy tons of stuff online, and a lot of it comes from the smaller outfits in other parts of the country, and at great prices. So if they can do it...why can't the ones near me? :confused:
Lately it has just been transfers.
Local prices are not competitive and quality accessories and gear are hard to come by.
outrider627
03-27-11, 18:27
I'm lucky because Boresight Solutions is my preferred local gun store, but I don't buy many accessories from Ben. He's very busy with custom work orders, so I feel like I'm wasting his time with small stuff. I usually order online, unless I know that he has what I want in stock, or it'll be easy for him to order.
Smuckatelli
03-27-11, 18:38
They handled a FFL transfer for a 6721. I ended up buying a 6920, CZ 452 Scout, Colt 1911 Commander. Cases, holsters, cleaning gear usually from them. Ammo I get a various places.
Hopefully they get the Browning 1911 22 soon, my younger kids are itching to shoot the pistol.
FChen17213
03-27-11, 18:39
I try to if the price is reasonable. Now, no one is just going to throw cash away. PMags for $20, stripped lowers for $200 etc are the norm these days at many gun shops. However, if I can buy a Glock for $465 or so, I'll bite. I will pay a few more bucks at the local gun shop if they have it in stock. Most of the time however, I'm just not willing to throw any sizeable amount of money away.
More and more I find myself shopping online. There are 3 shops really close to me, and one has a large inventory and decent prices on handguns and long guns, but their AR offerings suck, aside from a few Colts that come in once in while.
The other two shops have limited inventory, and are very overpriced.
I general buy firearms locally, but anything else, unless I need it that very day, I buy online.
I tend to buy handguns and self-defense ammo from gun stores...assuming the price is right. This is generally just out of convenience more than anything.
Any accessories, holsters, sights, magazines, etc.? Not a chance in hell.
Also, ALL my rifle components, including optics, I buy online. Stag lowers occasionally pop up at a good price, so I snagged one of those for cheap. I hate the deer on the side, but the price was too low to pass up.
I do if they have what I'm looking for, offer good customer service and have decent pricing. I will pay a little more when I get good customer service
RogerinTPA
03-27-11, 20:47
I'm pretty much done buying firearms since I have more than enough for the "average" individual, but I will on occasion trade out something worn or old for something new. As for ammo, I buy it all online.
I'm lucky that Palmetto State Armory is my local gunstore. Excellent place to buy a gun, especially when they have a 10% off sale on tax free weekend... :D
It's rare that I find something in a local shop that I know is priced below full retail. I support as many of my local business as I can but a gun shop staffed by folks who think there doing me a favor, I don't need. Face it, I've already got all the guns I need, anything else is just for my own amusement. On the other hand - just bought a S&W M&P stripped lower for $99 + tx out the door from a local shop running a "special". OK, I can live with that. Ammo? forget it, even factoring in the shipping $. If it's not on "sale" (less than full retail) I woun't touch it. :cray:
I'm lucky that Palmetto State Armory is my local gunstore. Excellent place to buy a gun, especially when they have a 10% off sale on tax free weekend... :D
that must be nice.
Belmont31R
03-27-11, 22:48
Yeah if I want to pay 450/k for for 223 55FMJ.....:rolleyes:
Local shops around here try to push specific guns to you even when you come in knowing what you want. Range time is ridiculously expensive, even when you bring your own gear.
I patronize one because it's right by my mom's house and I usually only buy targets. The other is the local cop shop. I go there because I can look at uniform stuff and they have a decent deal on the Glocks I'm looking at. I hardly buy from them though.
All the gun-related purchases I've made in the last two years were online from the same four sites.
go in my local shop from time to time, but nothing ever changes in there. They mostly cater to fudds, although they do sell suppressors and do NFA transfers. God knows what they'd charge for it, their regular transfer rate is $50 each. They sell C-Products 30 round AR mags for $24.99 each (or Brownells, if they're out of C-Products ones). Their Colt 7rd 1911 mags are $14.99 each (same ones I got at a gun show during the Obama-mania for $7.00 each) and their ammo is ass rape. The CHEAPEST .223 they've got is $8.99 or $9.99 a box. Glock mags of any style are $35 each and pistol ammo is at least $4-5 a box higher than Wal-Mart.
Plus they have absolutely no clue about anything when you ask them detailed questions. It's like they've got the manufacturer website pulled up, and can read you specs you could read off the tag hanging on the gun, but past that it's a no-go. My friend and I walked in there a few weeks ago and he wanted to get a Rossi .357 lever gun to put on his airboat for hogs, they had one in stock and had listed it on Gun Broker and told my buddy (who had cash in hand and wanted to buy it right then) he could go home and bid on it, but it is illegal to end auctions early.
You described one of my local shops to a T. The .223 ammo you are talking about for $9 a box? It's steel case Wolf at the shop in my area. $50 for a standard transfer...afraid to ask what NFA transfer is. They don't even know what the NFA law is (they told me a short barrel shotgun, with shoulder stock, is a $5 tax stamp) which would make me very wary of buying anything NFA from them
They looked at me like I had three heads when I asked if they had an y LaRue mounts in stock. $50 for an FFL transfer. If you walk in with a nearly brand new Glock 17 to trade in, they'll offer you $200 on it. Their idea of standard price is MSRP + 10% (Sale price is apparently MSRP)
The other local shop that I don't frequent has good CS, they just price everything MSRP and have mostly hunting rifles and shotguns with a very small selection of pistols (mainly Taurus and Ruger) and EBRs.
Leonidas24
03-27-11, 23:34
Aside from my previous experience, I did land a good deal on a Glock 17 after I got out of the Army at a local shop. Even though it was Glock's own discount for LE/mil, this shop honored it when the other one in Wichita didn't. I ended up paying $365 after tax including two spare mags plus the one already in the gun.
On the other hand the same shop offers DPMS as their main ARs with a few LWRC rifles and a single ACR in that order. Magpul XTM panels are $12 a pack and last time I checked their price on a thousand rds of PMC bronze 223 was $385.
I'll still buy pistols from them if I find a good deal. Wichita is very sparse when it comes to gun shops, and ranges, so I'll do what I can to support the local economy when funds permit.
I try to support a few of my local shops when I can.
wetidlerjr
03-28-11, 05:01
I will buy local if the price is close to online but many around here aren't and quality AR and 1911 stuff is VERY few and far between. :(
I do transfers at my local shops or pick up an occasional item. Paying blind allegiance to someone because they are local is silly in my opinion. This is especially true in areas where the FFL has a monopoly due to geographic considerations or whatever and they screw people because they can.
Robb Jensen
03-28-11, 07:31
Aside from my previous experience, I did land a good deal on a Glock 17 after I got out of the Army at a local shop. Even though it was Glock's own discount for LE/mil, this shop honored it when the other one in Wichita didn't. I ended up paying $365 after tax including two spare mags plus the one already in the gun.
On the other hand the same shop offers DPMS as their main ARs with a few LWRC rifles and a single ACR in that order. Magpul XTM panels are $12 a pack and last time I checked their price on a thousand rds of PMC bronze 223 was $385.
I'll still buy pistols from them if I find a good deal. Wichita is very sparse when it comes to gun shops, and ranges, so I'll do what I can to support the local economy when funds permit.
$365 is almost $100 less than dealer cost on a Glock. Not all dealers are Glock LE dealers. LE Glock dealers pay substantially less for 'blue label' Glocks. There are restrictions on who can buy new 'blue label' Glocks such as LE, Fire.EMS, Mil, security guards, armored car drivers GSSF members etc. IIRC Glock LE dealers make about $20 on a 'blue label' Glock.
Just a Jarhead
03-28-11, 07:37
Never...Attitude's & prices are a huge turn off at nearly every local shop I've been too. Ain't the Internet great!!!!
I support a couple of the local shops in my area. Not just becasue of the Active Duty and LE discounts they offer, but because they aren't pricks and will take the time to answer questions about products they sell to customers that need help. While they carry alot of UTG and lower end kit, they also carry some magpul, troy and DD and aren't affraid to try stocking other quality products if a couple people ask for them.
Small parts I normaly just order online.
NMBigfoot02
03-28-11, 07:55
I try to buy something if I'm in there, but generally I get most of my stuff online.
One thing I will not do is support a gun store that acts like they do not have time to deal with customers. I have experienced this in the past, and I refuse to support a B&M that treats their customers as an inconvenience.
I have a dealer that who is a great guy to work with. He has never charged me more than 10% above his cost. He even became an LMT dealer so I could purchase my lower. He has never charged me a transfer fee when I buy weapons elsewhere and have them shipped in. I refer him all of my friends who want to purchase a weapon and he takes care of them also. He does a good business and is fairly knowledgable.
It is good that some of you Guys are getting LE and Military discounts .The store I do transfer Only at does Not .I have been In uniform and asked for a MIL discount and they looked at me Like I just cuss their Mom
IndianaBoy
03-28-11, 10:26
Unfortunately, no.
There are two local shops. One is run by an old angry man with no teeth who has a lot of inventory(hunting rifles and handguns), sky high prices, and only takes cash.
The other is run by a dope smoking hippie, who has no inventory (a few 38s and a ruger charger), and fancies himself a gunsmith. I saw a pre-ban Bushmaster that someone asked him to thread and install a Battlecomp on. I never saw the barrel before he put the comp on, but the comp was visibly canted at least 5 degrees. It looked like the bullet just might clear the end of the comp without striking it.
I am actually kicking around the idea of opening a shop. I think there is an untapped regional market especially for AR-15s and similar rifles.
I try to buy local but, the nearest shop that has what I'm looking for is about 35 miles away... It's a great shop, good inventory and switched on staff. Their prices are a little high on some things but, for the most part they price competitvely. I just picked up an HK USP 9 in used but unfired contition for 649.00 out the door so, I do what I can to support the locals and get the small stuff online.
I would LOVE to buy from my local store, but I can't get them to acknowledge my presence. I guess window shoppers from neighboring states that can’t even purchase are more important than the retired mil/ active DoD guy with money in his pocket. In one of my latest attempts to use them for any purpose at all, they informed me that Glock changed their MIL/LEO discount and I couldn’t order and have it shipped to them, but they would sell me a G34 from their inventory at full retail.
I ordered a Sig from the factory and they insisted I have it to this same store…I cringe at the thought of it being handled through them…I haven’t heard a word from the store yet…ordered 3 weeks ago, the factory is only 25 minutes away and overnights all their shipments to said store.
If I had a shop around that was the caliber of let's say G&R Tactical, you bet your sweet ass I would buy local. However, I have yet to find such a place here in town and until the local shops stop trying to push what they stock because a "Bushmaster is the sweetest AR on the market", they won't get my money. I am currnetly in the market to build an AR and have been driving around to local shops to see what they have for lowers(stripped/complete)and other then 1 LMT, most shops carry brands I have no interest in. So It leaves me with having to do a transfer and getting a lower from out if state. I would gladly give money to a local shop that would care to even order such an item or stock it. Sadly they do not stock them and when I asked if they could order I got the, "well this brand is just a good..." No thanks.
I buy my accessories and ammo at the local store I use. For firearms, they are not competitive enough for me. They get plenty of business there because of their location so I don't feel bad about buying online. Plus they are there for that must have, can't wait purchase if it ever occurs :)
Cylinder Head
03-28-11, 12:23
I absolutely do not support my local gun shop for reasons many have pointed out earlier in this thread. They offer little in the way of knowledge, customer service or advice and their prices, while not outrageous are high.
Everyone there is grumpy and slow and they have screwed up two consecutive firearms transfers that I have done through them.
I have bought two guns through cdnninvestments.com (as recommended by the boys at HKPro) and they have been EXCELLENT.
I bought my SR-15 through Russell Tactical Arms and they were absolutely above and beyond.
The_War_Wagon
03-28-11, 13:00
There's a couple I support - and one GOOD local builder (Kevin Johnson - Johnson Tactical), but a real dearth of quality stuff around here; mostly hunting/FUDD sorts of gear.
Atmosphere
03-28-11, 13:11
I will buy locally if the item is "need it NOW" or the convenience of having it immediately is worth the extra money. Other than that, I tend to buy online.
My local shops are not knowledgeable.
coyote hunter
03-28-11, 20:14
One of the few places I will buy a gun. Moe's Hardware Hank in Black River Falls WI. great prices, and they have most anything you could need, other than AR's
It goes like this,
Hey can I see a (insert rifle here) in 30-06 with a walnut stock.
Here it is.
Do you have it in stainless?
Sure let me grab it.
Do you have a similar one in a Remington 700?
Just a second.
etc. Great place with great guys. But they won’t have much for AR's
Cesiumsponge
03-28-11, 20:24
$365 is almost $100 less than dealer cost on a Glock. Not all dealers are Glock LE dealers. LE Glock dealers pay substantially less for 'blue label' Glocks. There are restrictions on who can buy new 'blue label' Glocks such as LE, Fire.EMS, Mil, security guards, armored car drivers GSSF members etc. IIRC Glock LE dealers make about $20 on a 'blue label' Glock.
The current price for a G17 is $425 for GSSF members. I don't know if LEO/MIL has identical pricing schemes. The only downside is the dealer needs to specifically have a blue label Glock in stock to sell to you at blue label pricing if you qualify. If he has a normal G17 in stock, he can't sell it at blue label price because he paid normal dealer price on the normal Glocks. I found that out the hard way so I'm still waiting to pick up another.
walter34payton2002
03-28-11, 21:42
In the Orlando area prices are killer high and the attitudes for the most part are very bad. There are a few places, but they are sparsely distributed and not too close to me. Not to mention the misinformation you hear every time one frequents those places. I have developed the M4 approach- walk away and do what I am there to do.
Anyway, how's this for support- If you see something cheaper online, but want to support something good try buying it online at the lower price and donate the difference of price from the brick and mortar store to the NRA. So if item is shipped $75 and your local store's best price out the door is $90, $15 to the NRA!!! That's my kind of support.
walter34payton2002
03-28-11, 21:44
Oh and let me add.....Gunsmiths are a dying breed too. They just don't know anything for the most part in my neck of the woods. It is very sad it wasn't supposed to be this way.
I like to support the mom and pop shops, but some of them are way out of line when it comes to price. Some are so full of BS its just hard trying to communitcate with them. For example, I went into one shop and saw his 45 WWB for $50 per 50 rnd box. I couldn't resist telling him how far out of line his prices were. His response: "yeah, but my ammo has the good primers and not the new ones that make the ammo go bad in two months time the government is now forcing the ammo makers put in."
I'm lucky to live close to a shop that is staffed by guys that not only KNOW guns, but LIKE guns. Many shops I've been in have been staffed by people who could have been just as happy selling model airplanes. I buy MOST ammo online, and some guns online, but try to support my good local shop as much as I can, cause I want them to stay right where they are. It's a real blessing to have folks like this only 30 minutes away.
Skip
Of course! The closest shop to me gets my $25 every time I trasnfer in. Haha!
I buy online because the local prices are outragious. For example, the RRA Elite Operator 2 I just had transfered in was almost $400 cheaper online than what they wanted.
Can't say I'm all that interested in supporting the nearest large gun shop around here, given some of their political related antics.
I can only recall one gun shop I've ever been to that wasn't full of retards or weasels. Sadly, that one was a really long drive. I gave them all the business I could, though.
When I was in Hawaii there was only two shops I would frequent, otherwise everything was online purchases.Here in the DFW area, there are only 2-3 places I have visited more than once, and the only thing I buy locally is powder and primers at Cabelas.
just my humble opinion of the few local shops i've been to around houston
Top Gun Range -- generally just go here for the indoor range on lunch breaks; pros: gun rental option if looking to try a new handgun, cons: high prices, "this is what you need" type sales staff, drinks the Bushmaster kool-aid
Collector's Firearms -- I'd just as soon watch this place burn to the ground (ok that was harsh - maybe just a For Lease sign on the shop). Their staff, well lets just say I shoveled less sh*t when my grandpa made me clean the stalls during summers on the farm; pros: umm... cons: everything, including that magical 'Used cost more then New' form of capitalism
SOG Armory -- Probably the friendliest store I've been to in a while - no pressure, they actually greet you with a hello, and they have the sales attitude of "what are you looking to do/use this for" versus "this is what you need"; pros: internet comparable prices in-store, owner actually takes an interest in his customers, they carry a wide range of brands, and willing to order for you - haven't inquired about transfers yet
again, just my humble opinion and observations
bnanaphone
03-29-11, 10:32
I like to say I frequently use the local shops but it seldom happens. When it comes to firearm or scope purchases, I can always get a better price online AND I save on the sales tax, which adds up on the $700+ items. Ammo is one of those things I have to buy online since I can usually get 30% more ammo for the same price locally.
There is one place, Adventure Shooting Sports, located inside a Hummer dealership that carries some nice things, S&B scopes, Nightforce, M82A1s and a plethora of shiny multi-colored Sigs..:rolleyes: The staff is very friendly and helpful so I can't fault them. A few prices are high but others are very inline for the product.
Mid America Arms has some helpful staff and some fudds. Selection is your run of the mill store with Bushmasters, DPMS, oh and Counter Sniper scopes. I occassionally buy a Pmag or small accessory from them. Transfer fees are on the high side too, $45. If you want to transfer a gun that they could order you, it is the transfer fee plus 10% of the purchase price since they are "not getting the business". That is why I do transfers at the pawn shop next door for half the price!
Typically, I browse locally and buy online from reputable dealers on this site.
I buy online exclusively. MY LGS (ATP) in summerville, SC area, is WAY to high on prices. Please understand there is a difference in making a small profit & taxing out the wazoo.
A great "for instance" of why I don't shop there. I wanted a Ruger LCP. So it was black friday & they have a facebook page too. Saying $50 off any handgun purchase, plus no tax for the weekend. With $50 off + no tax they still wanted like $379 for the Ruger LCP. That's above freakin MSRP, with a discount. I then went on gunbroker & bought a LCP (BNIB) for $250 + $20 ship + $25 FFL xfer fee. $295 In my hand, with no discounts.
Now had they of had it at MSRP of $373 - $50 discount. I would have paid the $23 extra to support my LGS. But when your charging over an $80 markup & calling it a deal, i'll take my business elsewhere.
They also charge $50 FFL xfer fee. Which is a rip. I get mine xfer'd from a guy that is a FFL holder who runs a home transfer business for $25 a gun.
The only upside to ATP is that there pistol range is a $5 flat fee for the day. You could shoot out there for 20 minutes or 5 hours for a flat $5 fee. They also allow you to bring your own ammo & don't inspect it. Someone here or on another forum mentioned, some gun shops will check your ammo before allowing you on the range, & not permit handloads. So they allow handloads as well.
I rent ear protection for $1, & already wear script glasses, then get a $1 target & just print out computer paper targets to tape to the giant $1 target, plus $5 to shoot all day. $7 + tax & I can shoot till I run out of ammo. Usually my range sessions are 2-3 hours at least. That's the only godsend with them is there range prices.
Home of the overpriced SOG AR. :rolleyes:
just my humble opinion of the few local shops i've been to around houston
Top Gun Range -- generally just go here for the indoor range on lunch breaks; pros: gun rental option if looking to try a new handgun, cons: high prices, "this is what you need" type sales staff, drinks the Bushmaster kool-aid
Collector's Firearms -- I'd just as soon watch this place burn to the ground (ok that was harsh - maybe just a For Lease sign on the shop). Their staff, well lets just say I shoveled less sh*t when my grandpa made me clean the stalls during summers on the farm; pros: umm... cons: everything, including that magical 'Used cost more then New' form of capitalism
SOG Armory -- Probably the friendliest store I've been to in a while - no pressure, they actually greet you with a hello, and they have the sales attitude of "what are you looking to do/use this for" versus "this is what you need"; pros: internet comparable prices in-store, owner actually takes an interest in his customers, they carry a wide range of brands, and willing to order for you - haven't inquired about transfers yet
again, just my humble opinion and observations
^ Holy shit, there AR's are over priced...
http://www.sogarmory.com/ProductsSingleCol.aspx?CatId=154&ParentId=154
I like to say I frequently use the local shops but it seldom happens. When it comes to firearm or scope purchases, I can always get a better price online AND I save on the sales tax, which adds up on the $700+ items. Ammo is one of those things I have to buy online since I can usually get 30% more ammo for the same price locally.
There is one place, Adventure Shooting Sports, located inside a Hummer dealership that carries some nice things, S&B scopes, Nightforce, M82A1s and a plethora of shiny multi-colored Sigs..:rolleyes: The staff is very friendly and helpful so I can't fault them. A few prices are high but others are very inline for the product.
Mid America Arms has some helpful staff and some fudds. Selection is your run of the mill store with Bushmasters, DPMS, oh and Counter Sniper scopes. I occassionally buy a Pmag or small accessory from them. Transfer fees are on the high side too, $45. If you want to transfer a gun that they could order you, it is the transfer fee plus 10% of the purchase price since they are "not getting the business". That is why I do transfers at the pawn shop next door for half the price!
Typically, I browse locally and buy online from reputable dealers on this site.
I live 5 minutes from mid america arms. Try Otto comp. His shop is near the intersection of gravois and weber. He's a local gunsmith and does FFL transfers cheap. I hardly buy anything from mid america. Mostly go there to browse. Too many know it alls in there, most of them are customers. The staff is friendly, but not the most knowledgeable.
I tried to aspire to the ideal of supporting local business. But I won't be gouged. I just bought my first online gun last weekend (my first AR, actually). Saved hundreds of dollars and tax.
The one shop I know where the clerks aren't jerks/pushy/arrogant/ wrong etc., is way out of line on price.
Now that I've finally broken the ice on online firearms purchases I think I'll never look back.
EM
SOG Armory -- Probably the friendliest store I've been to in a while - no pressure, they actually greet you with a hello, and they have the sales attitude of "what are you looking to do/use this for" versus "this is what you need"; pros: internet comparable prices in-store, owner actually takes an interest in his customers, they carry a wide range of brands, and willing to order for you - haven't inquired about transfers yet
I don't know about their store and prices there but I ran into these thieves at the SAR/Crossroads show in Phoenix and their gun show prices on lots of items were significantly higher than MSRP. While this was right after the 08 election, none of the items I saw with such higher than MSRP prices were on the hard-to-get list. All were readily available at most other stores and online.
I stood there and listened to them a while talk to other people and the BS and crap they spouted made me sick.
I live 5 minutes from mid america arms. Try Otto comp. His shop is near the intersection of gravois and weber. He's a local gunsmith and does FFL transfers cheap. I hardly buy anything from mid america. Mostly go there to browse. Too many know it alls in there, most of them are customers. The staff is friendly, but not the most knowledgeable.
Is this Otto the Czech guy? I am not from there but I have a customer who used to go there but when Otto took over 6 months to get and install a YHM rail (and some other issues)(rail never did get installed) he basically told Otto to take a flying leap and was told not to come back. He took the gun, and went somewhere else who promptly had the rail and installed it in a few days.
Is this Otto the Czech guy? I am not from there but I have a customer who used to go there but when Otto took over 6 months to get and install a YHM rail (and some other issues)(rail never did get installed) he basically told Otto to take a flying leap and was told not to come back. He took the gun, and went somewhere else who promptly had the rail and installed it in a few days.
That's the same Otto. Ill admit his turn around time isn't the best, but he's had all my guns back to me within 2 or 3 weeks of dropping them off. I've taken 7 guns to him for work, and everything has been top notch. I know many other coppers who have taken him repairs or work and been pleased with the results. Id recommend him again from my experiences.
trappernana
03-29-11, 14:09
The guys that I work with to purchase new guns and kit are awesome. They've never ripped me off, and often throw in freebees. Over the years they've probably given me at least a free case of ammo. They also huntin buds
I walked into my local shop on Friday. I'm looking for another Gen 4 19. They had one alright... $639.00 w/o night sights. I paid $550 at the same shop last year. So yea I shop when the price is competitive.
TC
Doc Safari
03-29-11, 16:45
I have to use my local dealers for firearms, but I order anything else off the internet that I can, because the price is invariably less.
One funny observation I've made is that since joining this forum I've tried to educate my favorite dealer about how BCM, DD, Noveske, etc. are better than the DPMS, Armalite, CMMG, and whatever that he's shoveling. I guess it's the money, or dealer incentives from some of these makers, but I thought sure I had talked him into at least carrying the occasional BCM or Daniel Defense. Hasn't worked so far.
Supporting local businesses is an ideal to aspire, to, like buying American. But I won't be gouged or settle for crap, and most of the LGS's in my area want to do just that, steer you toward a Taurus when you asked about Dan Wesson becasue they have a ton of them... WTF? Last week I walked into a shop with a wad of cash and explained that I wanted a particular AR, of which they have three. Their best price was way out of line. Obviously I looked around before showing up at the only shop that had stock on this particular gun. Add 10% sales tax and there is no way. I knew I could get it for hundreds less online, and avoid tax. So I did. This, incidentally, was both my first AR purchase and my first online gun purchase.
I'm inclined to think that they would've made money off me had they sold me the gun for a more reasonable price. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe their margin is really that thin. Maybe it's because they have to pay the five guys to sit around and act like know-it-all's, if they must talk to you at all. But they ended up getting nothing.
I would prefer to go see "the guys at the local gun shop" and give them my patronage, but they tend to be dim, arrogant and condescending, and often times just plain wrong and cluless about that which they speak.
The internet is much less expensive, no taxes, limitless selection, and I can get as many answers to my questions as I can stomach right there with the "buy it now" button waiting. There's no comparison.
I do support my local shop. They are pretty good about selling to me at matched prices. I have to pay the tax, but I want them to saty around.
I believe that buying locally whenever possible is always a good thing. This applies to both my country, and my region. But, of course that means that the prices have to be close enough (within reason) for me to justify this. If I can however get something from a local store, and the mark up is only slightly higher then online, I will buy it every time! I would rather support someone I can see face to face. I also am kind of old fashioned with gun stuff, and like to see what I am buying (especially with guns themselves).
I voted 'Yes, with every purchase.'
I made the mistake of buying my HK45 from Discount Guns, which is a chain here in the Seattle area. I was overcharged by a few hundred bucks. In general, their prices are pretty excessive. Nor did I find their staff all that impressive/knowledgeable. If they had remained my only option, I would have probably made subsequent purchases online.
Luckily, I found out about West Coast Armory. They aren't always dollar-for-dollar a match for the *best* online price you can find by scouring the web for the cheapest price, but they are decent and usually not too far off. For some sense, here are some of my purchases:
Colt LE6940: $1489
SR15: $2099
Gen 3 G19: $500
Scar 17S: $3000
Walther PPS: $650
While these are a bit off of the absolute *best* price I could find online they were withing spitting distance when you factored in FFL fees (and in some cases shipping). Yes, I paid a bit more but I also supported a local business. The staff is helpful and knowledgable and they've done right by me in hte past--they even allowed me to return a Gen4 G19 for the Gen3 when I had issues with it.
You can *always* find the cheapest deal online, whether talking about guns or something else. By that token, you can always get cheaper shit when it's made in Taiwan or India or whatever the slave-labor country du jour is. While that behavior does not have immediate impacts, long term it most definitely does...and it's not to the benefit of local (or US) business. It's part of the reason the US doesn't really *make* anything anymore and pretty much purely a service economy.
I completely support my local businesses. I really try to stay away from online vendors as much as I can...
This is the result of my last online purchase.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98/shenwudog/bcmbattlecomp1.jpg
From a professional... upside down battlecomp install. :rolleyes:
Then the vendor says, ooppss my bad, at least I didn't charge you for it. Then follows up by saying I should man up and fix it myself.
Nice!
I completely support my local businesses. I really try to stay away from online vendors as much as I can...
This is the result of my last online purchase.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98/shenwudog/bcmbattlecomp1.jpg
From a professional... upside down battlecomp install. :rolleyes:
Then the vendor says, ooppss my bad, at least I didn't charge you for it. Then follows up by saying I should man up and fix it myself.
Nice!
Wow, that blows! Of course, you're just as likely to run into LOCAL morons, too. Only advantage is you can deal with them face-to-face.
Wow, that blows!
yeah... upside down. :eek:
Just recently I decided to no longer use one of the local gun/supply store. The dept I work for is switching duty weapons and the LGS bought our old weapons. I work for a dept of about 60 officers and the dept has done business with this store for decades. We have all been in this store many, many times...anyway, the store told Chief and Captain an "unofficial' price that us officers could expect to pay if we wanted to buy our weapons. Many of us were excited to get a chance to buy our guns for a decent price.
We carry USPs, .40s and .45s. I believe I heard the prices were, $340 for the .40s and $460 for the .45s. Now the dept has the new guns in and all we are waiting on are holsters and myself and some of the other officers have been putting away money to buy these guns when we were told that the local store had sold our guns to an "out of state buyer" and if we wanted to buy them we would have to pay the price they charged the out of state customer...$500 for the .40s and over $600 for the .45s!!! I know that's an average price for the guns, but it is a principle thing.
This is just the most recent and personal example of poor business from the store...I have had multiple guys complain about the store recently and I have decided that if I can help it I won't be purchasing items from them anymore.
I do buy locally, but it helps that my local store is G&R! :dance3:
I'm not lucky enough to have G&R for my local shop. But I do live in Southern California near Los Angeles the weather is usually very nice and Rifle Gear is only 10 minutes away, they are primarily an internet retailer but they have a store front and a great crew of employees.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-29-11, 20:59
I completely support my local businesses. I really try to stay away from online vendors as much as I can...
This is the result of my last online purchase.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98/shenwudog/bcmbattlecomp1.jpg
From a professional... upside down battlecomp install. :rolleyes:
Then the vendor says, ooppss my bad, at least I didn't charge you for it. Then follows up by saying I should man up and fix it myself.
Nice!
Whats the vender's business name?
We carry USPs, .40s and .45s. I believe I heard the prices were, $340 for the .40s and $460 for the .45s. Now the dept has the new guns in and all we are waiting on are holsters and myself and some of the other officers have been putting away money to buy these guns when we were told that the local store had sold our guns to an "out of state buyer" and if we wanted to buy them we would have to pay the price they charged the out of state customer...$500 for the .40s and over $600 for the .45s!!! I know that's an average price for the guns, but it is a principle thing.
That is pretty shady. Think how much business they will lose through word of mouth from you and your colleagues. Deservedly so too.
christcorp
03-29-11, 23:20
There are some local gun shops that I buy guns from. Yet, I won't touch them for ammo. Their prices are ridiculous. But most of their clients are buying ammo and accessories. But for guns, they have always been fair. Then there's another gun shop in town who "THINKS" he caters to a "Higher Clientele". Problem is; he's not originally from Wyoming. He's a Left Coast transplant. As such, his clientele isn't as large as it could be. In our area, we don't want a gun shop that hires 4 people behind the counter who PRETEND they know what they're talking about. This is a state where 86% of all households own guns. Everyone here is brought up on guns. This isn't California. He also has a lot of fishing gear, which I think helps a lot. If it was just guns, he'd be out of business. I rarely buy anything from him. I only look at used trade in guns.
But when it comes to ammo; I only buy locally if it's on sale or possibly at a gun show. I will buy defense ammo locally, because I only go through about 1 box per caliber annually. But they can't match the prices I can buy online. The really stupid thing is: They could. Most people will pay a little more for ammo when it's local and convenient. But when a $4 box of Wolf online, costs $9-$10 locally, that's B.S. And of course, the 4 idiots behind the counter who don't know shiite, are telling you that it's the cost of ammo going up. I actually told one; to his face: "You're a phucking idiot. Shut the phuck up". I did tell the owner that if he really is paying $6+ for the ammo, then his distributor is ripping him off. It's like none of these people know that they can buy a case of wolf ammo for $200 ($4 a box); sell it for $6 a box. Customer will be happy, and he'll make 50% profit. Same with brass ammo.
Anyway; if I see ammo locally that is almost twice what I can get online, and the owner of the shop tries to "Justify" the price; then either: A) They are lying. or B) They are a terrible business man and doesn't know how to shop for their merchandise. Either way; I won't do business with idiots or liars. So basically; I don't rely on anyone in any gun shop to try and "Educate" me on anything gun related. I've been around guns for about 40 years. I probably know more than most of them. What I don't know, I can find the answer on the internet; sometimes in forums like this. I'll support locally when buying a gun because I want to touch the gun. If they don't have what I want, or at the price that is reasonable, then I don't buy it. It's a gun. It's not food, clothes, or gasoline for my car. It's not like I HAVE to buy it. I can wait a lot longer than they can.
Not trying to justify the 100% markup on ammo and I don't know business laws in WY but a lot of states everything costs more locally than online. Running an online business is way cheaper than running a storefront. Not just sales tax, signage tax, surety bonds, etc.
ffhounddog
03-30-11, 07:24
All my AR parts, Black Dog Magzines, and Gemtech stuff is local to me. Ammo .223 a few boxes a month to run it through my Gemtech G5 then I get the Wolf for the rest of my training. Always worried about baffle strikes never had it though. Defensive ammo I will buy a box or two of Rangers for my carry guns. Holsters I will get a Galco from them from time to time but most of the time I go online. Just too many for them to stock.
I need to get another Gemtech mount on my BCM Middy so I will be there this week to drop off an upper.
Night sights local always unless they are out then I buy them online and have the local guys install them if they have time.
BufordTJustice
03-30-11, 08:16
If there were a quality, competitively-priced, courteous, and knowledgeable local gun store....I would embrace them with wide open arms. It's SO MUCH EASIER to buy locally. But when I have knowledgeable places like BCM, Brownells, Rainier Arms, and G&R Tactical (Grant is top notch) online that not only beat the prices of ANY local vendor by a sh*tload AND who offer superior knowledge and service...why would I buy locally when I have that online? If I had a local option...
Unfortunately, Central Florida has been mighty sinful, and God has not seen fit to grant us a suitable gun store....yet.
I was under the impression that I had to buy everything online to get the sweetest deal, and keep getting proved wrong.
I usually build my want list from searching the web, articles, reviews etc. and then shop them online to get an idea of what a great price is on the item. I then head out to the local shops to try and get my hands on whatever has made "the list". In this process I can get an idea of what the local guys are trying to make off of things.
Some stores I stopped going into altogether ( See: $90 dpms LPK, $1900 Colt 6940), While some seem worth the time.
I just meandered into one of the good guy stores yesterday on my way back from work and scored a surefire 6px for $58 before tax. It may have been mis-marked, but they honored the price and invited me back. I'll be back.
oldsmoboat
03-30-11, 11:01
I prefer to buy anything I can online. But, when it comes to guns, it's usually cheaper to buy local. Typically I am seeing $25 for shipping then $65 - $120 for an FFL to receive the gun and do the DROS.
Most of the guns shops around me are staffed by rude, jerks. It's never fun to go in but a necessary evil.
wetidlerjr
03-30-11, 11:53
I prefer to buy anything I can online. But, when it comes to guns, it's usually cheaper to buy local. Typically I am seeing $25 for shipping then $65 - $120 for an FFL to receive the gun and do the DROS....
Whoa ! :blink: It costs me $10.00 for a transfer and I'm out the door. Your cost is just insane. :fie:
Whoa ! :blink: It costs me $10.00 for a transfer and I'm out the door. Your cost is just insane. :fie:
I haven't found one near me yet that will do one for less than $30-$35.
$65-120 for a transfer is OUTRAGIOUS! And here I thought the $25 I was paying for transfers was a tad high. Whoever is charging people that much should be drop kicked in the throat! They are just trying to force everyone to buy from them.
$65-120 for a transfer is OUTRAGIOUS! And here I thought the $25 I was paying for transfers was a tad high. Whoever is charging people that much should be drop kicked in the throat! They are just trying to force everyone to buy from them.
It's Kalifornia (I assume as he said DROS). The costs there for the checks and paperwork are a large part of that. That is not just the transfer fee.
I'll buy things like targets, ammo, bore brushes, patches, that sort of thing. They also have a fridge so I can grab a nice cold root beer when I'm done shooting.
Guns, mags, holsters, optics I buy elsewhere.
There's a gun store a few miles further down the road that I don't patronize anymore. I asked them to order a holster for me and they never got it in or called me about it, even after I called to remind them. One good thing I got from that store was my North Carolina CCW course, but it was accompanied by all sorts of (useless) free advice about what gun and caliber to buy.
christcorp
03-30-11, 12:23
Not trying to justify the 100% markup on ammo and I don't know business laws in WY but a lot of states everything costs more locally than online. Running an online business is way cheaper than running a storefront. Not just sales tax, signage tax, surety bonds, etc.
Of course it's more expensive; and I have no problem with that. It helps the economy, and I get the merchandise faster. But a 100% markup is wrong. That means they are either lying when they tell me costs more, or they are terrible business men. If i can buy a case of ammo for $200; $4.00 per box; then there's no reason that they can't buy at least the same price from the same online vendor. Then; they can mark it up 50% to cover profit and state sales tax.
EXAMPLES:
Gun Shop: $8.95 for wolf or bear ammo
Online and gun shows: $4.00
Gun Shop: PMC Bronze $11.95
Online and Ranch store on sale: $5.99 ($8.99 normal price)
Gun Shop: SS109 ammo $9.95
Online and gun shows: $259 case of 1000 ($5.25 a box)
If I, as a RETAIL customer can buy online at this prices, then a gun store at the very LEAST can buy at those prices. SO:
1. Their markup is too high, and they are lying about the cost of ammo.
2. They are idiots and bad at doing business, and are buying from some very expensive distributors.
This has nothing to do with local state laws or economies.
oldsmoboat
03-30-11, 12:38
It's Kalifornia (I assume as he said DROS). The costs there for the checks and paperwork are a large part of that. That is not just the transfer fee.
Ya, it's California. Dealer Record Of Sale is $35, set by the State. Then the FFL charges a fee to supply the seller with their FFL info and to receive the gun.
I am sure the price is set to discourage buying from someone else then having them do the paperwork.
I support my local store when I can, and I think I'll be able to do a lot more with them when I buy a reloading setup. As far as buying guns from them I'd gladly do so but I'm still waiting on my NY pistol license and all the long guns they have are your typical hunting and trap shooting stuff which I have plenty of from a couple generations of family hand-me-downs. Small rural town markets just aren't all that interesting, at least not in hostile states.
I do buy locally, but it helps that my local store is G&R! :dance3:
We appreciate your business!
C4
oldsmoboat
03-30-11, 12:43
On the ammo, I get it cheaper locally.
$6 a box for AE and XM193. I see some places advertise it on sale for $9. :rolleyes:
use to but now only 70-30 i just wish they help out with transfers from online stores...most of the local store in my area will not take a transfer from other stores for the few of them that do they charge $300.00 plus the cost of dros. where is the love.
thats the bay area for ya.
dirt_diver
04-01-11, 18:57
The ones around here really do themselves a favor by charging +/- $50 per transfer. That alone keeps them fairly competitive on price matching.
I am actually heading off in a few minutes to go purchase a LMT Defender lower from a local(ish) company because my usualy fun-dealer hasn't called me back yet, as I'd planned on ordering it from them.
Oh well...:confused:
Just transferred to MO from IL (thank you Jesus!:D), asked the guys at work who the local AR pro was. They all steered me to this shop only 5 minutes from my house. I was warned by multiple people that he is known as the "gun nazi". I went in (a little nevous), introduced myself (new to town, ex mil & le, ect), and inquired about a lower to finish my BCM build. He knew what a BCM was/is. He had a very nice S&W lower, and even cut open a new Pmag to let me check how well it fit in the magwell. I bought it. I was on instacheck "delay" for 2 days. He said, "bring that BCM upper in and I will put it on one of my complete lowers so you can feel what it will be like". Awsome. He calls me by name when I walk in, place is full of LEOs and ex mil like me (Sheriff was in today). I feel at home.
Picked up my lower today, bought a LPK and a weapon light (at a discount that surprised me). He said you got some work to do, any problems, call me or bring it in.:)
I can see how some would call him the "gun nazi", but they probably ran their mouth, or said some stupid shit and got what they deserved. I have no problems, and he earned my business.
anyone here live in the bay area san francisco that has a shop they work with that wont charge an arm and a leg to transfer a gun.
It is important that local gun stores stay open for "noobies" to get into shooting, that said it is hard pressed for knowledgeable people like us to overpay.
It is important that local gun stores stay open for "noobies" to get into shooting, that said it is hard pressed for knowledgeable people like us to overpay.
i has gotten pretty bad in my area...gunners dont unite.
BlackWidow
04-02-11, 01:04
So very true on the high xfer rate. But I don't blame some shops for doing it. There are so many dolts that come to me with a price that is so low you could not make 20.00 on a rifle. Of course they seen one online for (x) amount, and you should give them that price without tax like they are at a flee market buying an old shotgun off the one legged man.
They end up buying the rifle online and I swat them for a high xfer rate, and after shipping, paid more than I would have charged to special order it. I have plenty of times told customers to get rifles online because a reputable company seemed to be liquidating inventory. I then only charge them a 15.00 xfer fee, and when I sell them the accessories they want on it, I install them for free.
Just have to find that right shop to deal with.
There are only a few left around here. Most are gone.
So very true on the high xfer rate. But I don't blame some shops for doing it. There are so many dolts that come to me with a price that is so low you could not make 20.00 on a rifle. Of course they seen one online for (x) amount, and you should give them that price without tax like they are at a flee market buying an old shotgun off the one legged man.
They end up buying the rifle online and I swat them for a high xfer rate, and after shipping, paid more than I would have charged to special order it. I have plenty of times told customers to get rifles online because a reputable company seemed to be liquidating inventory. I then only charge them a 15.00 xfer fee, and when I sell them the accessories they want on it, I install them for free.
Just have to find that right shop to deal with.
wish we have someone like you in my neck of the woods.
christcorp
04-02-11, 10:09
Our local gun shops charge a flat $30 for FFL transfer fees for you ordering online and having it sent to them. HOWEVER: They all have one rule in common. NONE of them will do an FFL transfer for a weapon you order, if it's a gun that they sell at their shop. Very simple. Now; being not every gun shop sells exactly the same inventory as another in town, you can find one that will do the $30 FFL transfer on a weapon you order and sent to them. But if they sell that gun at their shop, they won't do an FFL transfer for you.
Our local gun shops charge a flat $30 for FFL transfer fees for you ordering online and having it sent to them. HOWEVER: They all have one rule in common. NONE of them will do an FFL transfer for a weapon you order, if it's a gun that they sell at their shop. Very simple. Now; being not every gun shop sells exactly the same inventory as another in town, you can find one that will do the $30 FFL transfer on a weapon you order and sent to them. But if they sell that gun at their shop, they won't do an FFL transfer for you.
thats a good idea....
jklaughrey
04-02-11, 10:45
Our local gun shops charge a flat $30 for FFL transfer fees for you ordering online and having it sent to them. HOWEVER: They all have one rule in common. NONE of them will do an FFL transfer for a weapon you order, if it's a gun that they sell at their shop. Very simple. Now; being not every gun shop sells exactly the same inventory as another in town, you can find one that will do the $30 FFL transfer on a weapon you order and sent to them. But if they sell that gun at their shop, they won't do an FFL transfer for you.
That just sounds like another way to monopolize the market share. I for one would not give them my business for that practice. Could you imagine them charging 600.00 for a Glock you could find for 450.00. Poor business model if you ask me. They need more honey...less vinegar!
huntswithweim
04-02-11, 11:16
There is older gun/pawn shop that I won't even go into anymore I would go with out before I buy from there. He burnt me once when I ordered a BLR. He didn't have it in stock but said he could order it for 750. Gun arrived when he said it would but the price was now 875. Asked why it was 175 more then what he said when he ordered it, and he got shitty and said he never said it would be 750. Anyway after a short debate paid the 875+ tax and left. Just went back in last month (2years later) and he was as gumpy and rude as ever just turned around and walked out.
There is a new store opening up bought my spikes upper and some pmags from them. Bought the stuff I needed end up BS'ing another 20-30 mintues with them. I think they are going to do well. Nice to go in to a friendly store that doesn't make you feel like you are a bother when you try to buy somthing.
Big box stores, along with online companies, have pretty much put most Mom and Pop industries out of business. When I was a kid, you bought a vacuum from the vacuum store, TV from the TV store, etc. They couldn't compete with the big stores, and neither can the small gun shops.
The difference is, with firearms, we need the local dealers, who are dying off.
If you look at what gun folks think are "fair prices", (myself included), it's 5%-10% over cost on guns and ammo, (at the most). You can't run a brick and mortar operation, stocking big ticket items, at those kinds of margins.
When I worked in a gun store as a kid, there were 40+ gun shops, in an area that there are 2 or 3 now. I hope those guys can hold on. The $20 transfer guys didn't have the resources to fight off being regulated out of business.
christcorp
04-02-11, 14:41
That just sounds like another way to monopolize the market share. I for one would not give them my business for that practice. Could you imagine them charging 600.00 for a Glock you could find for 450.00. Poor business model if you ask me. They need more honey...less vinegar!
In theory, what you say is dead on. And I would normally agree with your logic. It is sound.
However; this is wyoming. Even the smallest town has at least 5-6 places that sell guns. This doesn't even include pawn shops. Larger towns like Cheyenne and Casper add a few big-box-stores like sportsman's warehouse, sports authority, etc... Point is; this is gun country. 86% of every household has at least 1 weapon. Any retailer here trying to mark up a gun price that high would not stay in business.
Is there a markup? Sure. They have to make money too. And while I haven't gone pistol shopping in a while, a remember a couple months ago helping a friend buy a glock. Price range on just about every glock was in the $520 range. Some Sigs in the $500-$600 range. They might be a little higher than online, but with S/H and the $30 FFL transfer, they're probably comparable in price.
But you are correct that there could be some places that could try to pull a monopoly on the customer. But that's very unlikely here in Wyoming. Too many gun shops selling. And they all try and cater to different brands and clients. So if you really wanted to buy online, there's at least one of them that doesn't sell that brand that will do the transfer. They all charge a flat $30. I think it's fair. And I have no problem buying the gun locally if they have what I want. The prices are reasonable. Matter of fact; I've never bought a gun online and had it shipped to a store. I've either bought it from a local shop or a private sale or a gun show. Ammo; that's another topic. I'll buy defense ammo locally. (Don't go through much of that). But the majority of my plinking ammo I buy online.
Silver_2325
04-02-11, 18:18
Yes, with nearly every purchase. My local shop, which is conveniently located less than 5 miles from my house, is rock solid. The guy that runs it stays constantly stocked with all of the top manufacturers rifles and accessories. Daniel Defense, BCM, Colt, LWRC, Spikes, Noveske, etc... As well as all the other little guys making AR type weapons. Also has all the Magpul and Tango Down furniture to make it look pretty, very good optics selection and a very good selection of 5.56 ammo. Very good prices as well. I am very lucky to have a shop like that right down the street.
Also carries SCARs.
I'm fortunate enough that Grant is semi-local, so yes.
DrunkUncles
04-02-11, 19:48
I try to support the local gun shop here in MD. They can be expensive on somethings but reasonable on others. I'd like to think it all washes out.....
Chris
Yes, I do my best to support local places. They need better selection, but the ones that do have what I want at an acceptable price, I buy it.
I have been loading up on a few DD parts, sling mounts, front sight tool and windows Pmags for $16.39 at Blankenship Custom Firearms. It's a bit of a drive for me seeing as how I am in Martinez GA and have to drive all the way through Augusta and out to Grovetown to get there, but they have what I want.
Would have spent the money elsewhere if they had the selection. A lot of Fudd/Bubba stuff here in the CSRA/GA.
eightmillimeter
04-02-11, 20:43
Seldom. The local guys up here (even the go to shop for all the LE) just don't have a clue and the pricing is terrible. If I'm not ordering online I actually have to go to Scheels for stuff, so most of my purchases are online.
A resounding NO for me unfortunately. Most of the local shops in the area seem to be out of touch with reality when it comes to most pricing. I understand $100-$200 more than online, but trying to sell a rifle I can find for $2300 online or even 2 hours south for $3000 and claiming I'm getting a deal puts me off even the friendliest guys. Ever since my friend got his FFL and I've started seeing dealer pricing it's changed my perspective. I understand covering overhead and trying to make a profit, but it feels like some of the local shops aren't as worried about making decent margins and establishing loyal clientele so much as they are trying to ass rape the uninformed with some cash in their wallet.
my local shops are not usually stocked with the oddball things I track down from time to time so my purchasing is done on the internet primarily
My local gun shop is Palmetto State Armory, about two miles from my house. I simply cannot say enough good things about them. For all of the horror stories that posters on this and similar threads have to say about "bad" local gun shops, from surly staff to high markups to poor inventory, I have the fortune of being able to look at them and say that's simply not been my experience at PSA.
On top of that, they simply show me that they care about the community that they serve (shooters, both here in Columbia and on a larger scale as well). I was in the other night, just prior to closing, asking them for help on a little project for a friend overseas -- something on which they didn't stand to profit. They went above and beyond in helping out, showing why their shop is always full. Supporting a shop that does business in such a manner is not hard to do.
scoutfsu99
04-03-11, 22:41
Our local gun shops charge a flat $30 for FFL transfer fees for you ordering online and having it sent to them. HOWEVER: They all have one rule in common. NONE of them will do an FFL transfer for a weapon you order, if it's a gun that they sell at their shop. Very simple. Now; being not every gun shop sells exactly the same inventory as another in town, you can find one that will do the $30 FFL transfer on a weapon you order and sent to them. But if they sell that gun at their shop, they won't do an FFL transfer for you.
There are a few stores in my AO that do this too. I won't even go in them any more and I do my best to push people away from them. $589 S&W M&P9? **** you. That sells in b/w $380-$420 online, every day. $659 Glock? - Oh, wait - you'll take 10% off for a military discount? Awesome....Thanks for raping me on a $450 pistol. Even $21 PMags, no thanks. I could understand a few dollar mark up, but not out right theft. Gun stores can be their own worst enemy.
The gun shows around here are a rip off
Eurodriver
04-03-11, 23:15
A resounding NO for me unfortunately. Most of the local shops in the area seem to be out of touch with reality when it comes to most pricing. I understand $100-$200 more than online, but trying to sell a rifle I can find for $2300 online or even 2 hours south for $3000 and claiming I'm getting a deal puts me off even the friendliest guys. Ever since my friend got his FFL and I've started seeing dealer pricing it's changed my perspective. I understand covering overhead and trying to make a profit, but it feels like some of the local shops aren't as worried about making decent margins and establishing loyal clientele so much as they are trying to ass rape the uninformed with some cash in their wallet.
What kind of dealer pricing are you seeing? Ive always wondered how much a dealer pays for a NIB G19 for example.
christcorp
04-03-11, 23:28
There are a few stores in my AO that do this too. I won't even go in them any more and I do my best to push people away from them. $589 S&W M&P9? **** you. That sells in b/w $380-$420 online, every day. $659 Glock? - Oh, wait - you'll take 10% off for a military discount? Awesome....Thanks for raping me on a $450 pistol. Even $21 PMags, no thanks. I could understand a few dollar mark up, but not out right theft. Gun stores can be their own worst enemy.
Not sure where you live, but that's definitely a shame that they gouge the price like that on you. Most of our gun shops don't do that. Then again, we don't have any gun shop that tries and carry everything. So the guns they specialize in, they do a great job on prices.
Our shops are also very friendly towards online. If I can help them find better places to buy ammo or certain things, instead of their distributor, they're up for that. They've also told me of a number of online places where I might be able to find certain things I'm looking for. Our shops are pretty much on the up and up. I can't blame them for not doing a transfer on an item them sell, just because you're buying from someone who buys hundreds of them, and you're going to save $50-$75. (After the S/H and FFL transfer, you'd probably only save about $25). But that's here. I can only speak for our gun shops.
********************************************
On a side Note: Not too many people really understand business. I wonder how many on this forum actually understands how many guns, ammo, and accessories a gun shop would have to sell "At their FEW DOLLAR" mark up; in order to pay the $800-$1000 per month rent; $1000 per month, per minimum wage 160 hrs of employee pay. (Probably at least 2 employees). That's a LOT of "FEW dollar mark up" to do that. Oh wait.... The owner is suppose to make a profit too? Of course, all local gun shops could simply go out of business; which MANY ARE; and we can all simply buy online. Oh; and while we're at it; there's been a major push in Washington to have ALL internet sales charge taxes. So watch that "Price Savings" go down too. Anyway; just a thought. Not saying there aren't some gougers out there. There are. But when I look at an online price for a gun; plus $25 for S/H; plus $30 for FFL transfer; I then figure in a percentage. If my price online with everything getting it to me is $500; I don't mind paying $550-$575 for it locally. I get to touch it. I can tell if it's in good shape. My local gun dealer will warranty it if there's a problem. Even if it means transferring it back to him and giving me a complete refund. He's a registered repair for a number of manufacturers. On a $1000 weapon shipped and FFL transferred; I'd pay an extra $100 for it if I can buy it locally, where I can hold it and touch what I'm buying. Depending on the gun, maybe even $150 more. And honestly; I've NEVER seen any price of a weapon at one of my local gun shops much higher than that for markup. That's why I don't mind buying from them if they carry it.
scoutfsu99
04-03-11, 23:44
West TN area. It is a shame. I just came from WA where I was lucky enough to shop at Rainier Arms. Those guys, and their Wall of Awesome, are......well, awesome;).
Like I said, I don't mind a little mark up, but I detest out right gouging. It's a slap in the face and shows their lack of respect for their customer base. Like people have never heard of Google... Sure, they might be able to pull the wool over some people's eyes....but sooner or later, the word gets out.
If it were me, I would prefer to make a quick nickel over a slow dime. By pricing competitively with online businesses, you're ensuring a loyal customer base. It's too easy to service the hard shooters in the area. Those guys are the people you want to come back because they'll not only keep up repeat business, but they'll turn friends onto the shop. Once a person finds they were burned, they'll never come back and they'll tell all their friends too. It's sad and angering to see places do that.
ETA: I understand business enough to know a good shop when I'm in it. A good shop isn't going to bend you over the barrel with pricing. A good shop isn't going to take advantage of a new shooter's lack of familiarization. I understand the difference b/w a $659 Glock and a $450-550 Glock.
What kind of dealer pricing are you seeing? Ive always wondered how much a dealer pays for a NIB G19 for example.
About $400-$425, unless they're a direct LE account, then it's closer to $375.
wetidlerjr
04-04-11, 07:14
They are around here, too. I enjoy going, though, just to look around and be with like-minded people but a lot of the prices are insane so I seldom buy anything.
The gun shows around here are a rip off
medicman816
04-04-11, 07:50
Seldom for me as well, and not anymore for firearms themselves. We had two reputable dealers in town. One was a "mom and pop" shop that had been open for years. Not much tacticool stuff in there, mostly hunting but they had a good variety of pistols and occasionally a trade of something interesting. Their supplies were reasonably priced and they were willing to order anything they could get for you. Unfortunately they closed some time ago, shortly after a big box store moved to town. The second was a very small store/back of his garage that had an even smaller inventory but would order anything. Ammo prices were slightly higher (read: pennies). I can remember once ordering a pistol that actually cost him a few dollars more than he quoted me for. He absolutely refused to allow me to pay him the difference, going so far as to refuse to sell me the gun if I didnt pay him his quoted price. I bought a little extra ammo that day to make up for it though. :) Sadly he is also out of business.
My only other options are the big box store and a "crooked outfit" that is obsessed with certain guns, ughhuumm DPMS, ect. and thinks you are ill informed if you want something else. They also prey on the ill informed and will buy extate guns for pennies on the dollar. I do use the big box store to handle guns before I buy if they have it in stock. I recently enquired about a transfer there: $75. I simply replied "nevermind" and walked out as he was still talking. Its sad really. I now have to find a different place to buy. Thankfully I have friends who are willing to help out with certain things. Strictly legal I assure you.
I would really like to get a FFL but from everything I have read it is much harder now unless you have a storefront. That is something I can not afford to do in the short term. Our town could really use a GOOD gun store.
Big box stores, along with online companies, have pretty much put most Mom and Pop industries out of business. When I was a kid, you bought a vacuum from the vacuum store, TV from the TV store, etc. They couldn't compete with the big stores, and neither can the small gun shops.
The difference is, with firearms, we need the local dealers, who are dying off.
If you look at what gun folks think are "fair prices", (myself included), it's 5%-10% over cost on guns and ammo, (at the most). You can't run a brick and mortar operation, stocking big ticket items, at those kinds of margins.
When I worked in a gun store as a kid, there were 40+ gun shops, in an area that there are 2 or 3 now. I hope those guys can hold on. The $20 transfer guys didn't have the resources to fight off being regulated out of business.
Right. If you are going to be a small mom and pop store (like us), you HAVE to specialize. If I had to survive on my local sales, I would have been out of business years ago (thank GOD for the net).
With that said, if people find a friendly local gun shop near them, give them your business. Yes, I know that you are going to pay a couple bucks to 10% more, but just remember that they are a dying breed and if you don't support them, YOU will be screwed in the future.
C4
What kind of dealer pricing are you seeing? Ive always wondered how much a dealer pays for a NIB G19 for example.
What a dealer pays depends on what type of account they have. Some buy one and two guns at a time. Others are a member of a buying group and still others buy direct from the factory.
C4
On a side Note: Not too many people really understand business. I wonder how many on this forum actually understands how many guns, ammo, and accessories a gun shop would have to sell "At their FEW DOLLAR" mark up; in order to pay the $800-$1000 per month rent; $1000 per month, per minimum wage 160 hrs of employee pay. (Probably at least 2 employees). That's a LOT of "FEW dollar mark up" to do that. Oh wait.... The owner is suppose to make a profit too? Of course, all local gun shops could simply go out of business; which MANY ARE; and we can all simply buy online. Oh; and while we're at it; there's been a major push in Washington to have ALL internet sales charge taxes. So watch that "Price Savings" go down too. Anyway; just a thought. Not saying there aren't some gougers out there. There are. But when I look at an online price for a gun; plus $25 for S/H; plus $30 for FFL transfer; I then figure in a percentage. If my price online with everything getting it to me is $500; I don't mind paying $550-$575 for it locally. I get to touch it. I can tell if it's in good shape. My local gun dealer will warranty it if there's a problem. Even if it means transferring it back to him and giving me a complete refund. He's a registered repair for a number of manufacturers. On a $1000 weapon shipped and FFL transferred; I'd pay an extra $100 for it if I can buy it locally, where I can hold it and touch what I'm buying. Depending on the gun, maybe even $150 more. And honestly; I've NEVER seen any price of a weapon at one of my local gun shops much higher than that for markup. That's why I don't mind buying from them if they carry it.
Good post. I think people understand VERY LITTLE about running a business. This would include my fellow FFL dealers as well. :D
The average errornet consumer wants the following from their online dealer:
1. The item or gun at the dealers cost.
2. Free shipping.
3. 24/7 CS
4. Shipping on the same day as they ordered.
5. Warranty support on the item they didn't make any money on.
Dealers like local customers like you. Meaning, that you will pay 10% over what you see them for on the net. This means that they will actually make a little money on the item and can keep their lights on and pay their CRAZY liability insurance.
About a month ago, I had a customer in the shop looking at a pistol. I overheard the husband tell the wife that a gun store 45 MINUTES from me had it for $15 dollars less. They never asked me if I would price match (which I would have). How stupid could you be to drive that far for $15 dollars??? :shout:
C4
Dealers like local customers like you. Meaning, that you will pay 10% over what you see them for on the net.
I would have no problem with that at all. Unfortunately, my local gun stores seem to think that 40-50% higher is reasonable.
This would include my fellow FFL dealers as well
Forget about pricing, not being a surly jackass to everyone (especially women) who walk into the door would be a GREAT start for a lot of gunshops to learn.
Welcome to Panama City, FL. Home of the $45 transfer and $75 Winchester White Box .45 100 round. Bushy and DPMS rifles fly off the shelf for $1300. $30 / lb powder and $40/ per thousand primers are available for your reloading needs. You need an 8 lb Jug of W231? That'll be $225 if we order it. That's a whopping savings of $2 / lb.
I've tried to support my local gun stores, but I just can't pay those prices anymore. My reloading components come from powder valley, and I've found a local FFL that only charges $25 for a transfer. I've at least given them a chance to be competitive. I'll get a price for a gun with all fees included, and go ask them if they can come anywhere close to that number OTD.
Me being a business owner I like to support other local business owners when I feel that their price is fair. I always factor in the price of shipping, FFL fees, and applicable taxes. I feel $50~100 markup on most firearms is fair depending upon what you are getting. Any more than that is just price gouging and I will look elsewhere to get it.
there is a fine line that consumers and dealers are walking on, for me it boils down to working together after all the goals are the same we all love firearms...still trying to find a way to make the two side happy.
The only 2 I shop at in the Vegas area are Lock N Load and New Frontier Armory. I just dropped a C note at LNL this weekend and NFA's a good bunch of guys but they're damn near in Utah and way too far to drive to on a regular basis.
I try to support my local shops w/ every purchase. However, if my local gunshop is selling American Eagle 9mm for $18.99, I'm shopping at Walmart or on the internet.
yetisoldider
04-04-11, 20:57
Buds Gun Shop is local to me, so I get the best of both worlds, really good pricing/selection and support my local economy!
not really. the gun shop were i used to live was extremely expensive. The only thing i ever bought there was CLP and i feel i got ripped off. i needed it at the moment so i was screwed. i usually drove an additional 15 mi to get my stuff.
Bedford Forrest
04-05-11, 20:48
I try to if the price is right but our choices have dwindled. 3 of my last 4 firearms purchases were from gunbroker. We recently got a new shop about 5 miles from me. I was pumped to here the owner was big on AR's until I checked him out. His favorite AR is Bushy and his optics/accessory cabinet was full of NCStar junk and his Brownell's mags were $20 a piece.
Heartbreaker
04-05-11, 21:20
Nearly every gun store in my area is the type that seems to be offended at the idea of someone spending money at their store. Last time I reluctantly went into my local shop I looked at the AR parts, first thing I saw was an Ergo grip for $65, didn't even look at a price tag after that. I buy all accessories and ammo online and do PPTs at a store over an hour away even though there are 4 or 5 closer to me, I wouldn't even want them to hold on to a gun for 10 days (CA).
I support my local shop as much as possible. Their prices on guns are nearly the best around. Prices on gear and ammo are reasonable enough that I'll buy from them as well.
I want a G&R or Palmetto State where I live... In my town it's just Scheels or Gander Mountain. Not many good deals on much of anything from what I've noticed (more like 1600 bucks for a S&W m&p15t or 9 bucks for a box of wolf). If G&R or Palmetto State were near me I would shop there almost exclusively. Instead, I buy nearly all of my gun stuff online.
just like tomorrow i am faced with my 70 30 support for local gun stores. buying an aimpoint pro. price here is $449.00 BAGV has it in stock. i can order one online but the cheap online stores dont have them in stock. saw one for 408 and 410 plush shipping and insurance if they add that it will be close to 449.00 i need it by friday for a range trip this saturday. i may or may not save if i go online.
DiabhailGadhar
04-06-11, 08:51
I generally try to support local small business as my father owned one all his life and I know from watching him it is a struggle, but of the two gun shops that are local the big one is run by a pack of assanine old jerks who are under impression that becasue I'm not 45 I dont know ish about guns..I'm a Marine and I have access to the the internet and more importantly M4car.net :D I recently watched one of their sales staff go up to three other of their staff and ask if they knew what a buffer retianing pin was. I also almost got into a completely retarded argument with a couple of their guys about the Sig individual office program "that doesnt exist" which I purchased from..I also have had another of their staff tell me that he was an 03 (infantry) then the other day said he checked eject seats in aircraft, long story short he's full of shit.
The smaller one is run by an old hard ass EOD squid and I think he is the shit, he's a total ass but he knows what he's talking about. His inventory is very limited though so it kinda sucks.
I want a G&R or Palmetto State where I live... In my town it's just Scheels or Gander Mountain. Not many good deals on much of anything from what I've noticed (more like 1600 bucks for a S&W m&p15t or 9 bucks for a box of wolf). If G&R or Palmetto State were near me I would shop there almost exclusively. Instead, I buy nearly all of my gun stuff online.
And we would love to have you near us! Most of the folks around us want nothing to do with what we sell. :rolleyes:
If you were near us, you would get special deals on gear/guns, free installs and troubleshooting on your guns, $20 dollar transfers, free local weapons training AND the chance to get free swag (that comes in all the time). :D
C4
This is sort of a sore topic for me, because Bravo Company is more or less right in my back yard. I love Bravo Company for many reasons, but because I have a limited budget for my shooting hobbies, shipping charges + WI sales tax force me to scrutenize all of my AR-related purchases. That may sound petty, but it does add up. But when need, funding, and the planets are all in proper alignment, and I have little to no room for compromise, Bravo Company is my first shopping stop. The only other AR parts I've acquired locally have been lower receivers from another local shop.
I'll say that 90% of my needs (mostly ammunition) for my other shooting pursuits are satisfied through local vendors.
And we would love to have you near us! Most of the folks around us want nothing to do with what we sell. :rolleyes:
If you were near us, you would get special deals on gear/guns, free installs and troubleshooting on your guns, $20 dollar transfers, free local weapons training AND the chance to get free swag (that comes in all the time). :D
C4
You need to move back to virginia haha, preferebly central va, so I don't have to deal with nova traffic when I wanna go to va arms. Wish we had a decent store in the capitol city.
You need to move back to virginia haha, preferebly central va, so I don't have to deal with nova traffic when I wanna go to va arms. Wish we had a decent store in the capitol city.
LOL, don't tempt me. I think I will eventually move back to the South (VA, NC or SC).
C4
got the aimpoint for $449.00 went with a LD around me.
so if all the local shops retire we can we go? transfer fees expensive or cheap but without the FFL no one wins.
LOL, don't tempt me. I think I will eventually move back to the South (VA, NC or SC).
C4
Don't give up there. Head on down to FL, or at least south GA.
I live near several excellent shops, and I was in the business here for years. I know nearly everyone, and I show my face regularly so I know who has the best prices on the stuff I use.
I buy guns locally, usually at a place where I've shopped for nearly 20 years. I rarely buy guns online since transfer fees are prohibitive. Nobody can compete with online pricing, plus our sales tax is nearly 10%, so I buy non-gun stuff online, generally in group buys for cheap shipping. I buy components from a couple of other shops to avoid Hazmat fees.
The best way to save money in this sport is to never trade anything--instead, sell it for cash and buy what you want. Then you're in a way better position.
Gotta hustle, ya know?
Okie John
I shop locally when prices are competitive. There is only 1 shop left here in Jackson, MI (Schupbachs sporting goods) I am there all the time with my son, he loves to go there since the walls are full of animal mounts. One day I finally asked if they can lower there prices on ammo since Walmart is cheaper, but I told them I did not expect them to match Walmarts price but maybe meet in the middle somewhere since I know they don't have the buying power of those big box stores(yes, they did lower there price) I just bought my first AR last week from them (DD) they did not try to sell me the most expensive gun on the wall but told me that I would get the most bang for my buck with the DD.
But what really impressed me was the guy spent a good half hour with me telling me how everything worked(which is expected) but he stripped that gun down to nothing and showed me where to clean it and where to lube it and how to put everything back together. I would have never had the guts to strip the firing pin out of it and pull the extracter out if he did not show me how easy it was. So with service like that I don't mind spending a little extra on ammo.
LOL, don't tempt me. I think I will eventually move back to the South (VA, NC or SC).
C4
Move to SC grant & I will make visits to purchase items, or if I ordered from you in SC, that would be supporting a LGS right?? :shout:
Whiskey_Bravo
04-06-11, 22:16
LOL, don't tempt me. I think I will eventually move back to the South (VA, NC or SC).
C4
I will personally help you find a location if you wanted to say....move to north Texas :D No state income tax, good gun laws, and pretty much no decent competition :D
LOL, don't tempt me. I think I will eventually move back to the South (VA, NC or SC).
C4
=====================================
How about South...Louisiana...?
We have the 2nd Amendment 3-Day weekend every year where gun related items or hunting related items are Tax-Free.
.
I will personally help you find a location if you wanted to say....move to north Texas :D No state income tax, good gun laws, and pretty much no decent competition :D
I like TX as well. If you guys secede from the union, give me a call. ;)
C4
Whiskey_Bravo
04-07-11, 08:38
I like TX as well. If you guys secede from the union, give me a call. ;)
C4
I will see what I can do.
christcorp
04-07-11, 10:25
Grant; you need to move your company and family out here to Wyoming.
1. No STATE TAX
2. Very business friendly. Especially with taxes
3. 86% of all Wyoming homes have at least 1 firearm. (Normally more)
4. Only 550,000 population.
5. State residents, in state, can carry concealed without a permit.
6. True castle doctrine. You don't need to try and "Flee" from danger. If you feel threatened on your property.... Open Fire. it's cool
7. Little, to no personal crime. Why? We respect each other. Those who don't, realize everyone has a gun, so they don't mess with each other.
8. Always run a balanced state budget. Usually a surplus. Lot of money from minerals, gas, oil, etc...
http://www.treehugger.com/wyoming.jpg
http://www.tobacco-facts.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/tobacco36.jpg
http://jacksonhole.locale.com/media/galleries/jackson+wy/regions/surrounding+wyoming+real+estate/wyoming_ranch_real_estate.jpg
elkknuckle
04-07-11, 17:12
I generally try to support local small business as my father owned one all his life and I know from watching him it is a struggle, but of the two gun shops that are local the big one is run by a pack of assanine old jerks who are under impression that becasue I'm not 45 I dont know ish about guns..I'm a Marine and I have access to the the internet and more importantly M4car.net :D I recently watched one of their sales staff go up to three other of their staff and ask if they knew what a buffer retianing pin was. I also almost got into a completely retarded argument with a couple of their guys about the Sig individual office program "that doesnt exist" which I purchased from..I also have had another of their staff tell me that he was an 03 (infantry) then the other day said he checked eject seats in aircraft, long story short he's full of shit.
The smaller one is run by an old hard ass EOD squid and I think he is the shit, he's a total ass but he knows what he's talking about. His inventory is very limited though so it kinda sucks.
Sprauge's does suck major anus haha! Wheres the other shop, in the foothills?
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