Stag 2tl

[vatorman64]

Just bought a stag 2tl not real familiar with the ar platform. When a empty mag is installed and you pull the charging handle back it automatically stays open.Is this a normal feature. I am just trying to get real familiar with this gun before i take it to the range. Thanks

[brianc3]

Yep normal. Check out the knowledge based threads, a bunch of great info to get you started.

[polymorpheous]

See the sticky threads at the top of every AR related subforum. A wealth of knowledge grows there. Read, read, read.

Try to find an Army field manual to learn the basic manual of arms.

Welcome to the forum!:)

Edit: Here's a link for you. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-9/c04.htm#sectioni

[Markasaurus]

i have this gun. It's a fine M4gery and has most of the features of the higher priced guns.
I love it but i'd buy the gas-piston stag carbine next time - cleaning the carbon off the bolt and bolt carrier is a pain of major proportions!

a couple things you might want to know:
-there is no loaded chamber indicator the only way to tell is by yanking the charging handle a little bit and examining the ejection port for a round. but you can tell when the hammer is cocked and when it isn't i.e. when there might be a round in the chamber. the quick way to do this is you attempt to put the safety on safe position. If it won't go, the hammer is not cocked. If you can put it on safe, then you should definetely check for a round in the chamber.

I guess its possible to have a round in the chamber and the hammer NOT cocked, like a dud round or something. But the check of the safety is the quickest way. If the hammer ain't cocked, the gun is unlikely to fire i think.

-always run this rifle lubed no matter what anyone tells you. Good lubes are breakfree clp, mobil 1 (the engine oil), slip 2000 is the one people swear by but i've yet to try it. It's not so much what you use to lube, just lube it! You can run an AR clean and wet, and even dirty and wet - but you cannot run it dry and dirty or it will jam. Graphite is not a suitable lubricant by the way, it can react to the aluminum and form galvanic corrosion so keep it away from an AR.

After the first range shoot of 200 rounds the bolt had very hard carbon on the bolt tail. Also there was carbon on the firing pin flange, inside the bolt carrier group, and inside the flash hider at the muzzle. This is the downside of the direct impingement AR types, they sh$t where they eat and so the carbon has to be dealt with.

i have read a hundred posts on how to deal with the carbon. My conclusions, avoid the use of dental picks, as some people recommend, or anything else that is as hard then the part you want to clean.
Use bamboo skewers to scrape the crannies inside the bolt carrier group where the carbon is, otherwise only brass, wood or plastic scraping tools. I ordered the botach bolt cleaning tool but haven't gotten it yet, and also the bolt tail cleaner from G and g tools. Only after ordering them i am now convinced that this is the tool i should have gotten in the first place. It is called CRT-15 ar 15 bolt cleaner tool and everybody on the net that sells gun parts has it, it is $40:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j169/marc780/magnamatic-defense-crt-15-1.jpg

Moreover there are also a hundred posts on what chemical to use to help clean the carbon. (You will be scraping no matter what probably but the chemicals will help and probably essential).

i have tried the following products to help dissolve the carbon: brake cleaner spray, break-free clp, acetone, MP7 pro, mineral spirits. So far the best combination seems to be a 50/50 acetone/mineral spirits mix. I soak the parts in a glass jar (i'm pretty sure the chemicals will melt a plastic container if you left this mix in their for a week) then scrape a bit and soak some more.
To clean the carbon from around the muzzle, place the gun muzzle down into a container of the acetone-mineral spirits (mineral spirits alone will do if you don't have the acetone). Leave it soak for 10 or 15 minutes then pull it out of the jar and pick at the carbon with a bamboo skewer and see if the carbon has softened. Repeat this process until it is as clean as you can get it or you can't stand doing it any more that day - the carbon will all eventually come out using this method. At all costs avoid using screwdrivers etc inside the flash hider near the muzzle, you can wreck the crown and ruin the accuracy of the weapon with overly aggressive cleaning here.

A scotch brite pad, cut into 2 inch wide strips, seems to work very well for cleaning the bolt tail once the really hard carbon is off.

After the very first cleaning session i sent away to stag for the chrome plated bolt. $55. I'm hoping it will be easier to clean then the regular bolt.

You may hear about how wonderful the one-piece bolt rings are, to that i say you should probably avoid them. I bought 1 and installed it on the bolt, this one-piece ring made the bolt carrier group so tight the bolt would not seat in the chamber without slamming the forward assist, and needed way to much force to pull pack the charging handle. To me it seems there is no way that one-piece ring isn't going to cause a malfunction. They claim that the one piece ring will loosen up on first firing, maybe so, but in the meantime i took it off my bolt and reinstalled the old ones and am keeping the one piece as a SHTF spare part, only.

[Iraqgunz]

There is really no need to scrape carbon off the bolt tail. Especially if you lube it correctly with good lube. All those cool guy tools are just designed to take your money. You can also soak a bolt in carbon cutter or MPro7 over night and alot of the carbon will come off.

People get worked up about carbon. To me the only time it will be an issue is if you are gaging and inspecting the weapon.

As to the one piece rings. I have been using them for years, including when I was in Iraq and they have always worked 100%. I always let my BCG slam forward anyways because that is how it is supposed to be done.


i have this gun. It's a fine M4gery and has most of the features of the higher priced guns.
I love it but i'd buy the gas-piston stag carbine next time - cleaning the carbon off the bolt and bolt carrier is a pain of major proportions!

a couple things you might want to know:
-there is no loaded chamber indicator the only way to tell is by yanking the charging handle a little bit and examining the ejection port for a round. but you can tell when the hammer is cocked and when it isn't i.e. when there might be a round in the chamber. the quick way to do this is you attempt to put the safety on safe position. If it won't go, the hammer is not cocked. If you can put it on safe, then you should definetely check for a round in the chamber.

I guess its possible to have a round in the chamber and the hammer NOT cocked, like a dud round or something. But the check of the safety is the quickest way. If the hammer ain't cocked, the gun is unlikely to fire i think.

-always run this rifle lubed no matter what anyone tells you. Good lubes are breakfree clp, mobil 1 (the engine oil), slip 2000 is the one people swear by but i've yet to try it. It's not so much what you use to lube, just lube it! You can run an AR clean and wet, and even dirty and wet - but you cannot run it dry and dirty or it will jam. Graphite is not a suitable lubricant by the way, it can react to the aluminum and form galvanic corrosion so keep it away from an AR.

After the first range shoot of 200 rounds the bolt had very hard carbon on the bolt tail. Also there was carbon on the firing pin flange, inside the bolt carrier group, and inside the flash hider at the muzzle. This is the downside of the direct impingement AR types, they sh$t where they eat and so the carbon has to be dealt with.

i have read a hundred posts on how to deal with the carbon. My conclusions, avoid the use of dental picks, as some people recommend, or anything else that is as hard then the part you want to clean.
Use bamboo skewers to scrape the crannies inside the bolt carrier group where the carbon is, otherwise only brass, wood or plastic scraping tools. I ordered the botach bolt cleaning tool but haven't gotten it yet, and also the bolt tail cleaner from G and g tools. Only after ordering them i am now convinced that this is the tool i should have gotten in the first place. It is called CRT-15 ar 15 bolt cleaner tool and everybody on the net that sells gun parts has it, it is $40:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j169/marc780/magnamatic-defense-crt-15-1.jpg

Moreover there are also a hundred posts on what chemical to use to help clean the carbon. (You will be scraping no matter what probably but the chemicals will help and probably essential).

i have tried the following products to help dissolve the carbon: brake cleaner spray, break-free clp, acetone, MP7 pro, mineral spirits. So far the best combination seems to be a 50/50 acetone/mineral spirits mix. I soak the parts in a glass jar (i'm pretty sure the chemicals will melt a plastic container if you left this mix in their for a week) then scrape a bit and soak some more. A scotch brite pad, cut into 2 inch wide strips, seems to work very well for cleaning the bolt tail once the really hard carbon is off.

After the very first cleaning session i sent away to stag for the chrome plated bolt. $55. I'm hoping it will be easier to clean then the regular bolt.

You may hear about how wonderful the one-piece bolt rings are, to that i say you should probably avoid them. I bought 1 and installed it on the bolt, this one-piece ring made the bolt carrier group so tight the bolt would not seat in the chamber without slamming the forward assist, and needed way to much force to pull pack the charging handle. To me it seems there is no way that one-piece ring isn't going to cause a malfunction. They claim that the one piece ring will loosen up on first firing, maybe so, but in the meantime i took it off my bolt and reinstalled the old ones and am keeping the one piece as a SHTF spare part, only.

[Iraqgunz]

Aside from the metric ass load of information here, I would see if you received an operators manual with the weapon. That will do wonders for the basics.


Just bought a stag 2tl not real familiar with the ar platform. When a empty mag is installed and you pull the charging handle back it automatically stays open.Is this a normal feature. I am just trying to get real familiar with this gun before i take it to the range. Thanks

[ZRH]

there is no loaded chamber indicator the only way to tell is by yanking the charging handle a little bit and examining the ejection port for a round. but you can tell when the hammer is cocked and when it isn't i.e. when there might be a round in the chamber. the quick way to do this is you attempt to put the safety on safe position. If it won't go, the hammer is not cocked. If you can put it on safe, then you should definetely check for a round in the chamber.

I guess its possible to have a round in the chamber and the hammer NOT cocked, like a dud round or something. But the check of the safety is the quickest way. If the hammer ain't cocked, the gun is unlikely to fire i think.

...

TREAT EVERY FIREARM LIKE IT'S LOADED.

ALWAYS.

I am sick of getting covered by the muzzle and having people tell me the bloody safety is on.

[markm]

Just bought a stag 2tl not real familiar with the ar platform. When a empty mag is installed and you pull the charging handle back it automatically stays open.Is this a normal feature. I am just trying to get real familiar with this gun before i take it to the range. Thanks

This is how almost all decent modern auto loaders work. :confused:

You might consider taking a basic firearms course or a CCW class.

[Hmac]

i have this gun. It's a fine M4gery and has most of the features of the higher priced guns.
I love it but i'd buy the gas-piston stag carbine next time - cleaning the carbon off the bolt and bolt carrier is a pain of major proportions!





You certainly have a bigger problem with carbon than I've ever experienced. I do soak and/or scrape my bolt every now and then, but it just hasn't eve been a big deal for me. Maybe it's your ammo.

[An Undocumented Worker]

TREAT EVERY FIREARM LIKE IT'S LOADED.

ALWAYS.

I am sick of getting covered by the muzzle and having people tell me the bloody safety is on.

One of the reasons people don't have proper muzzle discipline is because they are taught that guns have 2 states, loaded and unloaded. Naturally they treat the gun differently when they percieve it to be unloaded.


Here is an article that more thoroughly describes the problems that come with the first of the golden four rules of fire arms safety.

http://grantcunningham.com/blog_files/01cd852e1047ef52554640508d2bf118-258.html


A reader alerted me to this thread over at GlockTalk, where a debate about the first of Jeff Cooper's "Four Rules of Gun Safety" is raging. Specifically, the argument centers on the allowable "exceptions" to Rule #1: "All guns are always loaded" (or, alternatively, "Treat all guns as if they were loaded.")

I feel entitled to comment, inasmuch as the observance of said rule by gunsmiths has been invoked as one of the "exceptions." I take exception to that exception, and in fact take exception to the very notion of exceptions! Allow me to explain, and perhaps start some exceptional controversy of my own.


the full article is in the link above.

[ZRH]

One of the reasons people don't have proper muzzle discipline is because they are taught that guns have 2 states, loaded and unloaded. Naturally they treat the gun differently when they percieve it to be unloaded.

Here is an article that more thoroughly describes the problems that come with the first of the golden four rules of fire arms safety.

http://grantcunningham.com/blog_files/01cd852e1047ef52554640508d2bf118-258.html

the full article is in the link above.
That is an interesting philosophical way of going about it. It may make it easier for 'average' people to understand. I still think it's mostly laziness though, a lot of people just aren't cognizant about safety until something bad happens. Muzzle discipline should be second nature. Not a big fan of chamber indicators for that reason. In my experience the more safety features something (machinery, tools, etc.) posses the lazier people act around it.

[graffex]

That is an interesting philosophical way of going about it. It may make it easier for 'average' people to understand. I still think it's mostly laziness though, a lot of people just aren't cognizant about safety until something bad happens. Muzzle discipline should be second nature. Not a big fan of chamber indicators for that reason. In my experience the more safety features something (machinery, tools, etc.) posses the lazier people act around it.

I agree totally. If you can't understand not pointing your muzzle at someone, you don't belong owning a weapon.

[MistWolf]

About the linked article-

If Rule#1 is "All guns are always loaded" there is no "or alternatively". All guns are always loaded. No exception. There is no safely unloaded state.

Cooper himself wrote that the Four Rules are actually Three Rules because "Do not point a firearms at anything you're not willing to destroy" also covers what's behind the target. So there are only Two Rules- "Don't Point, Don't Put Finger On Trigger.

In actuality, it all boils down to "Do NOT point a firearm at anything you're not willing to destroy". Keeping your finger off the trigger is only to reduce chances of tragedy during those moments mistakes are made and that rule is violated. Note that it reduces, not eliminates. Even with the finger off the trigger, tragedy can strike if muzzle discipline isn't kept.

I treat the muzzle of any firearm as if it were infinitely long and would hit people and cause harm if I were to sweep them and teach the same

[BBJones13]

About the linked article-

If Rule#1 is "All guns are always loaded" there is no "or alternatively". All guns are always loaded. No exception. There is no safely unloaded state.

Cooper himself wrote that the Four Rules are actually Three Rules because "Do not point a firearms at anything you're not willing to destroy" also covers what's behind the target. So there are only Two Rules- "Don't Point, Don't Put Finger On Trigger.

In actuality, it all boils down to "Do NOT point a firearm at anything you're not willing to destroy". Keeping your finger off the trigger is only to reduce chances of tragedy during those moments mistakes are made and that rule is violated. Note that it reduces, not eliminates. Even with the finger off the trigger, tragedy can strike if muzzle discipline isn't kept.

I treat the muzzle of any firearm as if it were infinitely long and would hit people and cause harm if I were to sweep them and teach the same

The 4 rules are redundant. They should be redundant. Safety practices should have layers and layers. Multiple mistakes should have to occur for anything bad to happen.

I know its cliche but firearm safety is never something that is mastered; it can only be practiced.

[polymorpheous]

This thread is trailing off course from the OP.

But then the OP hasn't really been active in his own thread now has he?

[An Undocumented Worker]

The 4 rules are redundant. They should be redundant. Safety practices should have layers and layers. Multiple mistakes should have to occur for anything bad to happen.

I know its cliche but firearm safety is never something that is mastered; it can only be practiced.

I was only pointing out that human mind has difficulty lying to itself. And that some people don't treat all guns as if they are loaded, mainly because in the back of their mind they percieve an unloaded gun to be less dangerous. And so it is a natural progression of human thought to tack on the exception "unless you have verified that they are not loaded" to the first rule.

This fatal mistake occurs to both the experienced and inexperienced gun handler. That article helps one understand why those who should know better have had ND's.