View Full Version : NY gunshops and there "RULES"
ICANHITHIMMAN
03-29-11, 18:58
So whats the deal with some gunshops in NY. Why is it some of them feel you need to prove you have a pistol permit to sell you ammo or even better you have to show them your permit to even look at a pistol?
Only reason I bring this up is my buddy just got his permit so I took him to the local Gander Mountain to look at some pistols. We did a bit of window shopping and decide to handle a few so he can get a feel for them. He gets a salsmen and tells the guy what he is looking for ya da ya da ya da.
Guy was very polite then he says I have to see your permit before I can uncase the pistol, then he turns to me and says I need yours too sence your with him. I looked right at him and asked why? He proceds to tell me its the law. I said no its your store policy and its not benifiting you guys. He says to me we are not a toy store, I droped it and we left.
What do you guys think about that am I just to sensitive. They make you show them your permit if you want hand gun ammo to. I dont get it I can go to any one of more than a dozen gun shops in the are and be handed any pistol I ask about or buy ammo no questions asked.
Cagemonkey
03-29-11, 19:20
Better get used to it. Its not going to get any better. If you want to see so real commie shit come visit MA. The only real option is to more to a more gun friendly state. The Northeast is a lost cause except for NH, VT and ME.
From a free state, and having sold guns since 1987, I'm 98% sure he's trying to avoid a straw purchase.
Down here, were there isn't a permitting system, it's something you watch out for, but up there where you have to have a permit, it's one extra step they can use to cover their ass.
Now, don't misunderstand, I'm not condoning it, but at the same time it's the permitting process itself which is really to blame.
NYS law states you need a pistol license to buy handgun only ammo. most salesman dont realize only 25 and 32 are the only handgun only rounds.
NYS law states you need a pistol license to buy handgun only ammo. most salesman dont realize only 25 and 32 are the only handgun only rounds.
What section?
I believe that NYC has a local ordinance like that, but I have never seen any statewide law stating it.
NYS is awful. I love how at Gander here in Rochester they keep the pistol ammo behind the counter, didn't know you needed a permit to buy it, I've never tried personally. But what if I have a 9mm Carbine?!(which i don't). NYS' strict gun laws are because of NYC, they want to be their own little state down there, let them be; because of them our laws are worse in my opinion, I wish they would just secede. :p
I would have said the same thing to the guy. Research and handling the weapon before you buy it is pretty damn important, I don't think that they understand that.
You DON'T need a permit to buy handgun ammo in NY. That is store policy, not law. NYC has some different laws regarding ammunition purchase, but it's not State Law.
You DON'T need a permit to buy handgun ammo in NY. That is store policy, not law. NYC has some different laws regarding ammunition purchase, but it's not State Law.
You know, I actually knew that, I have no idea why I typed that. Must be tired. But my thing with Nyc is that the representatives down there can vote on laws that have to do with the whole state, while they have their own stricter gun laws, it's just not right
5. Notwithstanding the provisions of subdivision four of this
section, it shall be unlawful for any dealer in firearms to sell any
ammunition designed exclusively for use in a pistol or revolver to any
person, not authorized to possess a pistol or revolver. The violation
of this section shall constitute a class B misdemeanor
Not listed as such in my penal law book.
270.05 is possession/sale of noxious material.
Sub 5 has to do with possession of a self defense spray.
http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal/PEN0270.05_270.05.html
Jesus,look it up yourself.
Section 270.00 paragraph 5
Learn something new everyday. I wonder when the last time that section was charged?
It only applies to dealers in firearms,it doesn't seem to apply to private sales.
The_War_Wagon
04-02-11, 06:30
He probably doesn't want to waste time with tire kickers, and does that eliminate them right away. Not terribly 'inviting' as a business practice, but then again, THAT'S the politicians' fault, & time is money too.
ICANHITHIMMAN
04-02-11, 09:05
I saw his attitude as a poor business practice he is just a salesmen at a chain store so I suppose it their fault. But the window shopper of today is the buyer of tomorrow. I’m in my 30s so is my buddy we don’t look like dead beats.
If you walk into any of the local gun shops the attitude is 180 degrees in the other direction. They welcome you and ask if their, is anything they can help you with and then offer to show you anything from the case that might peek your interest. They fully admit to being and adult toy store.
Pathfinder Ops
04-02-11, 11:34
From a free state, and having sold guns since 1987, I'm 98% sure he's trying to avoid a straw purchase.
Down here, were there isn't a permitting system, it's something you watch out for, but up there where you have to have a permit, it's one extra step they can use to cover their ass.
Now, don't misunderstand, I'm not condoning it, but at the same time it's the permitting process itself which is really to blame.
This is exactly what's going on.
That and a smattering of ignorance (yeah hard to believe but true).
I know a local gun shop owner who proclaims the crown of sole expert on gun related knowledge in our "entire region" who would not order a Choate folding stock for a .410 shotgun because he said folding stock violate the AWB.
He is wrong, so i just bought it online and wrote him off.
He is also inclined to tell you that large ammo purchases (1K rds or more) or ordering ammo on line will prompt a visit by NYSP and or ATF. And at a minimum will get you on a "list." OOOO SCARY!!!!!:cool:
Ignorance about NY's ACTUAL gun related laws is fairly common on every level from the ordinary LEO through the gun shop owners. It's no wonder people in NY get nervous when they want to explore the sport.
Oh and here is another quick WTF thing. For Christmas my wife decided that it would be kinda cute to buy a brick of .22 and put it my stocking (yeah she's cool). So she goes to Walmart (yeah I know) and the JO behind the counter tells her he needs her HG permit to sell it to her.
She says "I don't have one." And that she is buying it for her husband for Christmas. He says oh ok and sells it to her.
ICANHITHIMMAN
04-02-11, 13:45
Yes very stupid I dont think its the straw thing but maybe. My best friend worked the gun counter at Dicks sporting goods (the chain store) in an area out side the city limits her in Rochester. The policy of the store was to put all the shotguns in the backroom on friday night for the weekend to black people would not buy them. Can you belive that? Like the guys who buy guns legaly are going to use it in a crime.
Like the guys who buy guns legaly are going to use it in a crime.
Actually, yeah, they do. I worked at a time when we had a major drug war down here between two rival gangs, and saw it.
Unfortunately, bad people buy guns out of stores just like good people do.
I am not sure tha tit is anywhere in the written laws, but it seems to be a custom in NY State that gun stores will not show you a handgun and not let you handle it unless you have a NYS Pistol permit. I encountered this downstate when I lived on Long Island.
The limits on handgun ammo according to the written law is for ammo that can be exclusively be used in handguns. So if you are buying handgun ammo for a pistol calibered carbine, it is legal to sell to you.
This is subsection 4 from the same statute.
4. Sales of ammunition not prohibited. Nothing contained in this section shall be construed to prevent, or interfere in any way with, the sale of ammunition for revolvers or pistols of any kind, or for rifles, shot guns, or other arms, belonging or which may belong to any persons whether as sporting or hunting weapons or for the purpose of protection to them in their homes, or, as they may go abroad; and manufacturers are authorized to continue to manufacture, and wholesalers and dealers to continue to deal in and freely to sell ammunition to all such persons for such purposes.
I deal with this kind of stuff all the time in the Mid-Hudson. At the Gander in Kingston they wont sell any pistol ammunition unless you say: "it's for a rifle". I went shooting with a guy that was buying ammo for a .44 mag lever action, he walked into the store and said that to the guy behind the counter, and I just started laughing (first time I had seen anything like that in my life). I couldn't help myself, next thing that comes out of my mouth is: "well if I ever want pistol ammunition now I know what to say, what a joke..."
(I'm not from this state, and these little quirks are so friggen redonkulous that this WY boy is blown away!)
Ignorance about NY's ACTUAL gun related laws is fairly common on every level from the ordinary LEO through the gun shop owners. It's no wonder people in NY get nervous when they want to explore the sport.
This however is the truly scary thing about NY state. I know we have an almost 0 tolerance policy regarding LE topics, so I will tread really lightly here... I have a friend that is a Sheriff's Deputy whose actually told me to be prepared to get drawn upon simply for having an AR15 if I am ever called in for shooting on private property. There are multiple stories around my area, but I wont go there...
Also have a friend who was told by local village PD officer that it is illegal to shoot on State Land and if he gets caught he will loose all his guns FOREVER EVER (like double forever). He's in the service, so he refuses to go to a spot on state land I know about out of fear of loosing his firearms and getting in trouble. In this case, I've done plenty of research and have not found any provision stating that it is illegal to shoot on state land anywhere, and have even had a face to face discussion with the local DEC Ranger that patrols the place in question, and he said the opposite.
I feel like it is a state full of clowns where people have no clue what the laws are, so they walk around making up their own interpretation of what they think they heard at one point and then the game of telephone results in gun store clerks not letting you look at a pistol in the presence of a friend without a permit...
Oh the insanity of it all!!!!
For this very reason we're working on building up SCOPE's legal defense fund, and getting as many people to get on board with NYShooters.net to correct the misinformation. EVERY gun shop owner and gun owner should be on NYShooters so they can get educated and ask questions. The nonsense needs to be stopped immediately and permanently.
ICANHITHIMMAN
06-14-11, 13:34
Ok So I was in a shop in Scottsville the other day and the owner told me its a NYS law that they cant show you a pistol unless you show them your permit. It was the first time I ever heard anyone say that it was a law before but maybe it is? I dont know? I have been trying to look it up but I cant find anything.
I have only ever been asked about my permit at the Gander Mountain in Rochester every other shop I go to have been to has never asked for my permit. So now Im wondering who is right?
chapperjoe
06-14-11, 15:01
between laws and store policies, it can get a little crazy.
to their credit, when I was pre-pistol-permit here, the local Dick's was fine with selling me 9mm for my carbine. I didn't have to prove anything, but they did ask.
ICANHITHIMMAN
06-14-11, 16:04
between laws and store policies, it can get a little crazy.
to their credit, when I was pre-pistol-permit here, the local Dick's was fine with selling me 9mm for my carbine. I didn't have to prove anything, but they did ask.
I know right and I was just at the Gander MTN last week and asked to seek a couple of Markarovs they had and the guy never even asked just handed them over.
snackgunner
06-14-11, 16:18
After reading this thread, it just reminds me again of how thankful I am that I am no longer in New York.
Living in New York is like living in a whole new world, compared to living down south, when it comes to gun laws.
Late to this discussion, but new to my pistol permit and to handgun ownership. Down in Suffolk County on Long Island. Yes. It is the law. A gun shop can not even take a pistol out of the case to show it to you unless you first show them your pistol permit.
In order to actually purchase a gun here, you have to drive out to the police headquarters (for me 2 hours round trip), obtain a certificate of sale, $5.00 fee (you can get one for a specific gun OR for a purchase in general) You then have 20 days in which to purchase your pistol and return with it to police headquarters where they register it and add it onto your permit. If you do not purchase a pistol within 20 of the certificate's issuing date, the certificate must be returned, in person, to police headquarters.
And yes, the ranges that I have gone to have asked to see my 1911 and my permit to match the serial number before I was allowed to shoot at those ranges.
ICANHITHIMMAN
10-10-11, 21:11
Late to this discussion, but new to my pistol permit and to handgun ownership. Down in Suffolk County on Long Island. Yes. It is the law. A gun shop can not even take a pistol out of the case to show it to you unless you first show them your pistol permit.
In order to actually purchase a gun here, you have to drive out to the police headquarters (for me 2 hours round trip), obtain a certificate of sale, $5.00 fee (you can get one for a specific gun OR for a purchase in general) You then have 20 days in which to purchase your pistol and return with it to police headquarters where they register it and add it onto your permit. If you do not purchase a pistol within 20 of the certificate's issuing date, the certificate must be returned, in person, to police headquarters.
And yes, the ranges that I have gone to have asked to see my 1911 and my permit to match the serial number before I was allowed to shoot at those ranges.
Dang that sucks.
I have done a bit more research on the subject asked a few shop owners both are also police officers. Turns out you dont have to show your permit and even the local Gander mtn has moved their pistol ammo from behind the counter out to were any one can get it with out asking.
chasetopher
10-10-11, 21:33
Late to this discussion, but new to my pistol permit and to handgun ownership. Down in Suffolk County on Long Island. Yes. It is the law. A gun shop can not even take a pistol out of the case to show it to you unless you first show them your pistol permit.
In order to actually purchase a gun here, you have to drive out to the police headquarters (for me 2 hours round trip), obtain a certificate of sale, $5.00 fee (you can get one for a specific gun OR for a purchase in general) You then have 20 days in which to purchase your pistol and return with it to police headquarters where they register it and add it onto your permit. If you do not purchase a pistol within 20 of the certificate's issuing date, the certificate must be returned, in person, to police headquarters.
And yes, the ranges that I have gone to have asked to see my 1911 and my permit to match the serial number before I was allowed to shoot at those ranges.
This is plain scary. Thankfully I am in a 'free' state but I find it hard to believe that such restrictions could actually exist. The constitution and 2nd amendment only exist where the states allow it I guess.
Just scary.
Gun laws in NY aside I must say that the police department and officers and their support staff that I came in contact with while I was getting my permit and purchasing my pistol were without exception, kind, courteous and very helpful.
And, I may have just lucked out, but my local gun store has been pretty terrific as well.
NYC gun law is so strict a NY resident cant even go out of state to by firearms or ammo. I legally carry in NYC and went to Cabelas in PA and barely walked out with a Ruger 10/22. and yes in long island (where i primarily shop) you cant handle a handgun without a permit. just like someone that works in the store cant even open the case without a permit. and forget about buying anything within city limits not only is it difficult to find a store, usually the store owners an a hole, and knowing there isnt much competition they have jacked up prices...when I go shopping for a firearm (which is usually a costly experience) I want to be treated a certain way. Hunter is a great place with a very friendly and knowledgeable staff......
How would NYC know if you bought ammo out of state?
Stores in other states have a no ny'er policy period.
Okay. I was thinking more along the lines of just buying it outside NYC and bringing it back with you. That didn't even occur to me.
ICANHITHIMMAN
10-26-11, 06:14
I have gotten several guns from Ackleys in PA its just cause your so close to the city.
A few stores in pa say no ny'ers not to say it aint bs but the guy at cabelas said its a state rule
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