View Full Version : KAC or Noveske? $3000 to spend total
Just got an unexpected bonus from work, $3000 to spend on some more toys for myself. Unfortunately the other 2 has already been earmarked for my wife's growing collection of hummels, or I'd be getting an SR25. I'm considering 2 setups:
KAC SR-15 - Best price for me locally is $2150
Aimpoint T1 in KAC mount - $690 from a guy up in Baltimore, seems like a good deal compared to other local prices
Total: $2840
OR
Noveske SPR Upper W/Switchblock:
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/NVU-18-556-SB.aspx - With my friend's discount $1300
Noveske Mk18 Upper:
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/NVU-MK18.aspx - $900 with discount
He says he can have them here in a week from his distributor.
With this deal I get 2 blem lowers to build off. I'll probably only build 1 at the moment as I have to use the shorty with my SBR lower, so I'd say about $500 for LPK+Stock+Trigger I want. Can't buy any optics with this setup without going over 3K
Total: $2750
I can always rip off one of my eotechs from a scar, but I don't really have anything suitable for the SPR (I was thinking a NF 2.5-10 or something similar.)
I've owned several KACs and Noveskes in the past and have been thoroughly pleased with both, so I've been having trouble making a decision. Intended use is mainly backyard watermelon shooting, although if I get the SPR and can find some appropriate glass for it I'd enjoy seeing what kind of groups I can get past 500 with it. The only other AR's I own at the moment are an LMT MRP SBR and a colt M16 safe queen. Guidance appreciated!
This is tough for me as the two ARs that I own are a KAC SR15E3 and a Noveske MK18. Both are terrific rifles, but if I had to own one I'd vote with the KAC. I'm a believer in the E3 improvements, and the KAC is truly a state of the art design. If you didn't already have the LMT SBR, I'd vote for the MK18.
You really can't go wrong with any of your choices.
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x131/JSGlock34/IMG_0095.jpg?t=1301620271
Those three listed are kind of entirely different in purpose, aren't they?
One of a better all-around rifles vs. suppressor-tuned long range upper vs. a shorty.
I am reasonably confident that all three will do an outstanding job in backyard watermelon shooting.
You already have an SBR - not sure why you'd need a shorty. You're alluding to owning a SCAR. Unless your SCAR is sbr'd too, practically it falls into the same category as KAC - 16 inch all around rifle. If I were in your place, I'd get a Noveske SPR just to increase variety. This is something I've been thinking of doing myself too.
If I was going to get a complete rifle, it would be a SR15E3.
I spent a lot of money shopping around, researching parts etc. I came to the realization that I basically built a SR15E3... ;) Just with Noveske stuff. Logo is different I guess.
My barrel is a medium SS with the intermediate (11.5") gas system. I wanted something capable of sub-moa groups. But, the SR15E3 are very capable rifles, and I doubt the accuracy of the CL HF barrel would upset anyone.
Devildog0311
03-31-11, 20:43
Id go with the noveske brother. good quality rifle and it beats a lot of the other prices on good stuff they have out there. Both good, I ha[ppen to like noveske for the prices you pay and the quality you get.
After 3 months of research and the same budget, I went with the SR15 and a T-1 in a Larue mount. Couldn't be happier. I've never shot or handled a Noveske, but I have shot many others and the KAC is the smoothest shooting AR i've ever shot. With that said it sounds like you're itching for a SPR build, so do that.
Go with the KAC you'll have an awesome weapon and optic. The Noveske is also a sweet gun but it puts you over your budget.
KAC...buy online the prices are way cheaper.
I would go KAC, a friend of mine from another agency bought a Noveske the same day I got my SR15. Long story short he now has a SR15.
Belmont31R
03-31-11, 22:58
Keep in mind the E3 lower comes with a pretty nice 2 stage trigger, ambi lower, and SOPMOD stock.
Unless you upgrade the Noveske it comes with a standard lower, GI type trigger, and Vltor stock.
The SR15, added up with the features, is really one of the best values on the market. 2k is a lot to fork out for a single AR but if you were to get most other top brands, and add up the cost + upgrades to get where the SR15 is stock you'd probably end up spending more. Not to mention the E3 bolt is much more durable than a standard AR bolt, and comes with a 20k round warranty which is completely unmatched by any other brand.
CarbonCycles
03-31-11, 23:00
I'll be getting a KAC when funds permit
Save a little bit more and buy a KAC/Magpul SE rifle. You're close with $3k as is. Then throw your EO on it until you can save enough for the T1.
Sell off some of the extras that you don't need with the KAC/Magpul kit (mags, DVDs, etc) and you'll have one of the nicest factory built semi-custom ARs on the market for a reasonable price.
Keep in mind the E3 lower comes with a pretty nice 2 stage trigger, ambi lower, and SOPMOD stock.
Unless you upgrade the Noveske it comes with a standard lower, GI type trigger, and Vltor stock.
The SR15, added up with the features, is really one of the best values on the market. 2k is a lot to fork out for a single AR but if you were to get most other top brands, and add up the cost + upgrades to get where the SR15 is stock you'd probably end up spending more. Not to mention the E3 bolt is much more durable than a standard AR bolt, and comes with a 20k round warranty which is completely unmatched by any other brand.
I'm obviously biased being a predominately left hand shooter, however the new E3 lowers are easily one of my most coveted pieces of kit and I won't prob. buy another lower besides the E3's for years and years to come.
On a side note, the KAC 2stage match triggers currently being produced are much better than yesteryear KAC 2stage match triggers imho, and I own all GA triggers except for one KAC that is just perfect in my book....it's essentially a perfect SSA. The other two KAC triggers besides this one in the E3 lowers Ive received within the last yr. or two were not quite like this one I kept though just in full disclosure.
I have the KAC/Magpul Rifle, a 16" Noveske Recce, and 12.5" Noveske 6.8 and I like them all.
If you really want a KAC, just to have a KAC then go for it. You won't be disappointed.
Otherwise (I apologize for the drift from your question) I think the new LaRue 556 PredatAR (which sounds like it will start shipping today) is probably the best value out there right now ($1495!). This will be just over six pounds and probably handle very similar to the KAC/MD rifle for half the price.
Belmont31R
04-01-11, 00:19
I have the KAC/Magpul Rifle, a 16" Noveske Recce, and 12.5" Noveske 6.8 and I like them all.
If you really want a KAC, just to have a KAC then go for it. You won't be disappointed.
Otherwise (I apologize for the drift from your question) I think the new LaRue 556 PredatAR (which sounds like it will start shipping today) is probably the best value out there right now ($1495!). This will be just over six pounds and probably handle very similar to the KAC/MD rifle for half the price.
The new LaRue gun has a lightweight SS barrel which has nowhere near the longevity of the CHF CL'ed barrel the SR15 has, and doesn't have the greatly improved bolt design nor ambi lower. A lightweight SS barrel is better served in a hunting role (not a lot of rounds) or as a competition gun where the user can change barrels out frequently to maintain accuracy. Not to mention the Larue doesn't come with any BUIS whereas the KAC comes with an industry golden standard 600M rear and integrated front.
That Larue PredatAR 5.56 is basically a hunting rifle....kinda denotes the naming of it PredatAR.
LW and SS in my book is an oxymoron.
Devildog0311
04-01-11, 00:36
Personally, I would shell out the cash and build the noveske from scratch.
richdkim77
04-01-11, 00:42
As an owner of 4 Noveske's, I'll just say this. I love them, but I'm dying to purchase a SR15 next. It's just such a smooth shooter, and I love the ambi controls as I'm left handed.
I think your M16 would make a great backyard watermelon shooter.....just sayin'!
LW and SS in my book is an oxymoron.
Does this come from personal experience or theoretical considerations?
Belmont31R
04-01-11, 10:23
Does this come from personal experience or theoretical considerations?
LW SS barrels simply don't last as long because SS erodes faster when heated up than 4140/4150. Thats why most SS barrels on the market are medium contour. The thicker contour can absorb more heat. The LW SS barrels are marketed towards hunters and gamers such as the Noveske Rogue Hunter and NST guns.
LW SS barrels simply don't last as long because SS erodes faster when heated up than 4140/4150. Thats why most SS barrels on the market are medium contour. The thicker contour can absorb more heat. The LW SS barrels are marketed towards hunters and gamers such as the Noveske Rogue Hunter and NST guns.
Yep, I understand that and I agree that SS barrels wouldn't last as long as CL-HF barrels. My actual question is what practical, hands-on experience folks here have with LW SS barrels to relegate them to hunter/gamer status.
I have one LW SS Noveske barrel since 2007. This is when KAC and others didn't exist for any practical civilian purposes as far as light-weight high-end barrels were concerned. Going through classes and thousands of rounds, this barrel so far has blown all interwebs wisdom about its supposed weaknesses out of the water. I am taking it to EAG class late this month for more data collection.
Nope, I don't expect it to last 20K rounds, I'll be fine with 10-12. On the other hand, last Friday I shot a .75 MOA 5 round group right at POA with it (yeah, I know, Molon would cringe). This was after practice session so the barrel was hot, it is well used by now, and those 5 rounds contained 3 different loads. I am rather curious if any of those CL-HF or nitride barrels can do that too.
Mr. Goodtimes
04-01-11, 11:19
I have a soft spot for Knights as they are a local company so, I'd go with Knights. I think the SR15 is hard to beat. When you factor in what it comes with it's a great deal too.
Belmont31R
04-01-11, 11:30
Yep, I understand that and I agree that SS barrels wouldn't last as long as CL-HF barrels. My actual question is what practical, hands-on experience folks here have with LW SS barrels to relegate them to hunter/gamer status.
I have one LW SS Noveske barrel since 2007. This is when KAC and others didn't exist for any practical civilian purposes as far as light-weight high-end barrels were concerned. Going through classes and thousands of rounds, this barrel so far has blown all interwebs wisdom about its supposed weaknesses out of the water. I am taking it to EAG class late this month for more data collection.
Nope, I don't expect it to last 20K rounds, I'll be fine with 10-12. On the other hand, last Friday I shot a .75 MOA 5 round group right at POA with it (yeah, I know, Molon would cringe). This was after practice session so the barrel was hot, it is well used by now, and those 5 rounds contained 3 different loads. I am rather curious if any of those CL-HF or nitride barrels can do that too.
I wouldn't relegate LW SS to hunters/gamers ONLY...just thats is what they are marketed to. SS will actually outlast plain steel but AR's usually come with CL'ed chambers and bores.
Im sure the actual grade of SS matters, too. Noveske uses a good grade of SS.
How many rounds do you have through it?
Noveske:
Barrel life and accuracy is dependent on how the
barrel is used. The barrel may be damaged (shortened barrel life and/or accuracy degradation) from excessive heat caused by a
high rate of fire. We are not responsible for barrels damaged by operator abuse
LW SS is going to heat up faster due to the reduced mass.
KAC...buy online the prices are way cheaper.
I'm looking at one of these as well. Link to a good price?
thatguy950
04-01-11, 12:58
I don't know much about KAC to be honest, other than they are great guns with a ton of great feedback. That said, I love my Noveske and I will say their customer service is second-to-none.
I'm looking at one of these as well. Link to a good price?
Give Lawmen's a call.
My opinion: Get the KAC. While my next AR will be a Noveske MK18, I don't care for most of Noveske's complete rifles. The SWS rails are just plain heavy. (Notice that the MK18 I mention uses a DD rail;))
The KAC SR15E3 is about as good as it gets out of the box.
*Lightweight
*Top notch sights
*Top notch rail
*Top notch trigger
*Top notch stock (LMT Sopmod)
*Unique integrated ambi controls
*E3 bolt design
I do not have one of these rifles because I knew exactly what I wanted and was able to build it much cheaper than buying the KAC and modifying it to be the way I wanted it. However, I sell Noveske, KAC, and others, and can tell you from handling the KAC against say the Noveske Low Pro, the KAC is much sweeter.
How many rounds do you have through it?
Upwards of 3k, almost all shot during classes - so rapid fire etc. I don't do "precision shooting", the group I mentioned was shot was during a workup of magnified optic setup and new ammo.
For me, performance of my LW SS barrel - service-grade reliability, consistency despite supposed heat-related degradation, and minute of eyeball accuracy - outweighs shorter life span as compared to CL-HF barrels. This is an individual choice, of course.
I have my MSTN upper mated to Vltor A-5 RE and I'll put it up against any other rifle in terms how smooth and soft it shoots.
Give Lawmen's a call.
Even if i'm not LE?
Even if i'm not LE?
Its cheaper if you're LE/Mil but they still have great prices that they cant advertise.
Ask to talk to Casey.
KAC...buy online the prices are way cheaper.
I learned this the hard way with my SR25. I had my dealer buy it direct and the state taxes added more than I wanted. Whereas with my 15 it was the price I saw on the internet. I probably could have got the 25 for a better price off GB.com :o
Hey, I know this is an AR forum, but if it were me, I would spend the 3grand on a top-shelf SA M1A.
Sorry.....couldn't resist.
Well, I was too torn to make a decision between the 2 so I ordered an SR-15 upper and the Noveske SPR upper. Put me right @ 2700, + with the free lower I'll get I figure around $300 to finish it off and I'll have the best of both worlds for a price. The ambi controls were never a big deal for me as I'm right handed and throw a bad lever on just about everything.
When you get to shoot them, bring this thread back and let us know your impressions.
If I had to do it over I would find one of the Magpul KAC guns, the normal SR-15 isn't that much cheaper if you look at whats included on the Magpul one...
Its cheaper if you're LE/Mil but they still have great prices that they cant advertise.
Ask to talk to Casey.
Is it possible to find an SR15 complete lower?
Yes, try MSTN or Lawmens. Last I looked they were $750!
I have 2 Noveske's (16" Switchblock SPR & 10.5" Switchblock SBR) and a KAC/Nighthawk SR15.
My take:
+Noveske is slightly more accurate
+KAC is lighter, points better, yet still shoots softer
-KAC does have proprietary parts
BOTH have great customer service reps (neither needed it yet!)
++I LOVE THEM BOTH, and would never sell either
I am intrigued by the LaRue OBR, but it IS overpriced by $500 IMHO.
Yes, try MSTN or Lawmens. Last I looked they were $750!Looks like mtsn site is down for the moment. Thanks
While MSTN is active on TOS...he's still good peeps.
Since ww is down, try Email, he's pretty quick to respond: MSTN@COMCAST.NET
Own them both, love them both
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.