View Full Version : You get what you pay for? (What separates the aimpoints/eotechs from other optics?
Ok, a couple things to get out of the way:
I'm new here, and new to the AR/tactical world.
I've done some looking into Aimpoint and Eotech sites and I understand the differences/benefits/drawbacks to them both.
I'm a father of 3 and full-time student (read $$$uper tight budget), concerned with home defense and "SHTF".
I like the Aimpoint's "forever" batteries, but like the EOTech's 65/1 MOA Reticle relative simplicity of EO's setup (you dont seem to need to get the mounts separately, etc...)
My question is this: with the EOTech and Aimpoint models I'm considering both being over $450-$500, whats to keep me from getting a Vortex SPARC for $200? (I see plenty of stuff on Aimpoint, Eotech, but almost nothing on SPARC... Opticsworld.com seems to think highly of the SPARC, but I havent seen much from consumers on what they think.)
Besides "AIMPOINT IS AWESOME!" or "EOTECH RULES", or "EVERYTHING ELSE SUCKS", what separates the EOTECH/Aimpoint and the Vortex SPARC?
I have seen some pretty good reviews on the Sparc. I don't know that the average SHTF prepper would need something pro grade like the two biggies.
The only justification for me to shell out all that would be the aimpoint battery life, and dependability, in SHTF, you have to be able to depend on your weapon with your life.
I understand the Sparc is very reliable too. I think the Sparc would be ideal. Plus it comes with the great warranty.
So, if you buy something for "SHTF" that's got a great warranty, and it shits the bed, will that great warranty help you out then?
Here's the deal, you absolutely do get what you pay for. The lesser quality clone optics will not hold up to the conditions that a military grade optic will. I'm 99% certain that even the Vortex guys say that their stuff is not meant for duty.
If you're running on a super tight budget, and brother, I do understand what that means, then run your irons, and start an Aimpoint or Eotech jar, putting a couple bucks in it when you can, and pretty soon, you'll have the money that you need for a professional grade optic.
If you can afford a $200 optic, you're about half way there to the real deal.
Also, look at buying a good condition used one from a reputable member (I'd avoid places like Ebay because of all the Chicom airsoft clones). Aimpoint just released their Patrol Optic, which comes with a useable mount, and should be about $440 or so total.
If you're buying an optic, or a weapon, that you even slightly think might be pressed into service for defense of yourself or your family, then you need the best that you can get. If that means scrimping and saving for a while, and running irons, then that's what it means, and you'll be a better shooter for it at the end of the day.
Rmplstlskn
04-01-11, 18:00
Let me share my story (lesson learned) on "making do" with CLONE optics...
I just did an INEXPENSIVE RDS (red dot sight) option for my wife's carbine (until $$$ allows a better option), so I will share my experience...
I first bought a TruGlo Open Red Dot Sight for $99, mounted it on her 14.5" middy-gas AR15 carbine, and went to the range to sight it in... This one resembled slightly a Trijicon Reflex...
http://www.truglosights.com/images/TG8360B.jpg
I liked the holographic sight options and that the BUIS (back up iron sights) could be used easily, but I did not like that the dot was right where the fixed base front sight was and I found it distracting. A riser would help but then it would be a BUIS use issue... But it didn't matter... that TruGlo sight was all over the paper and would NOT hold a zero. I determined it to be a inside defect, not a mount and use issue. So back from the range I went to my local black rifle shop for a refund... They offered to replace it but I had now lost trust in it (for a $99 optics and all :oops:)
So I swapped it for a Aimpoint Micro clone made by KONUS... It was more $$$ at $120...
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/konus/konus_7247.jpg
This RDS had a nice clear, well-defined dot and had good feedback as a decent cheap RDS option (like the PWS), but on an AR platform, a RISER is a MUST, just like an Aimpoint Micro needs a riser. I bought a 3-slot, 1" UTG riser off ebay for $11 and mounted it. This now put the red dot where an Aimpoint would put it (red dot above front sight) but due to the design of the red dot emitter inside the sight (block on bottom), this emitter would be in the way of a BUIS in use, making the BUIS about useless unless the RDS was removed. But if you buy a 5/8" riser then the red dot wil be back on top of the front sight post, and again, a distraction for me...
But for an RDS, this KONUS seems to be a nice option. It "seems" well made and feels tight and secure. The battery life is nowhere near that of an Aimpoint, by multiples of times, but what does one want from a $120 RDS? So I kept it and the UTG mount (seems well made as well) has a butterfly lockdown so it can be removed quickly if needed, allowing BUIS use.
Since this is NOT a primary weapon, I think it will suffice until a Aimpoint Comp-M3 comes along... But if I had the money back and could do it all over again, I would have put that $$$ WASTED on an RDS that just sorta works out into a fund for a REAL RDS that would have fit the bill in all areas... My lesson learned with cheap RDS's...
Rmpl
You get what you pay for? What separates the aimpoints/eotechs from other optics?
In short, quality.
I'm probably the least qualified person to answer this, so I may be 'stepping out of my lane' a bit. But I went through a similar experience that may help.
About a year ago I just had to have a red dot for my AR. But after looking around, I realized I "couldn't" afford a 4-700 dollar sight.
So I went to a gunshow to see if I could find any better deals. Big mistake... I saw an array of "Acog" "Eotech" and "Aimpoint"-style sights for prices vastly cheaper than anywhere else. They looked like the real thing. They felt like the real thing. They even functioned like the real thing. At the time I was looking for an Eotech, and I thought why not? So I went home looked on Ebay, and found one for "only" 75 bucks. What a steal!
About a week later it arrived, and I mounted it on my rifle. Everything seemed fine, until I took it out to zero. Long story short, it wouldn't. The cheapass 'made in Chrapland' adjustment screws just slipped when you turned them. And suddenly, 400 bucks for a REAL Eotech seemed rather cheap....:suicide2:
I re-sold it as a prop for only $45. Then went and bought the real thing. Trust me- you can literally see and feel the difference.
Now, I can't speak for the sight you're looking at. And apparently Vortex does make some other good stuff.
But like Templar said- you're already a third to half of the way there.
Buy once, cry once, save money.:)
Dagnabbit! Beat to it again!:D
So, if you buy something for "SHTF" that's got a great warranty, and it shits the bed, will that great warranty help you out then?
Here's the deal, you absolutely do get what you pay for. The lesser quality clone optics will not hold up to the conditions that a military grade optic will. I'm 99% certain that even the Vortex guys say that their stuff is not meant for duty.
If you're running on a super tight budget, and brother, I do understand what that means, then run your irons, and start an Aimpoint or Eotech jar, putting a couple bucks in it when you can, and pretty soon, you'll have the money that you need for a professional grade optic.
If you can afford a $200 optic, you're about half way there to the real deal.
Also, look at buying a good condition used one from a reputable member (I'd avoid places like Ebay because of all the Chicom airsoft clones). Aimpoint just released their Patrol Optic, which comes with a useable mount, and should be about $440 or so total.
If you're buying an optic, or a weapon, that you even slightly think might be pressed into service for defense of yourself or your family, then you need the best that you can get. If that means scrimping and saving for a while, and running irons, then that's what it means, and you'll be a better shooter for it at the end of the day.
I couldn't agree more. It sucks to hear that your going to have to spend $$$ but it is what it is. It all comes back to quality. Cheaper things just plain don't last and aren't dependable. I shoot my rifles quite frequently. Im spending the money to ensure when I hit that power button it comes on and stays on! I don't want to have to worry about it giving on me in say...6 months...or a year. Most of the cheap optics/red dot just wont hold a zero either at all or in the long run. Your rifle is a precision tool. Why settle for something that wont let you use it that way? I don't want to have to worry if my rifle is zero'd or not..
Grab that ol kiddies piggy bank..start dumping all your change in it..two less sodas a day..and buy the optic you really want.
I have a used 512 A65 on a Larue mount I will sell you for 260 shipped. The hood is dinged up but it is 100% functional and the glass is prefect.
Buy the Aimpoint PRO. It seems to be a M3 with a mount. I learned a hard lesson buying binoculars a few years ago. Rather than spend $250 for the ones I wanted I bought an $85 pair. They fogged bad so I bought a $120 pair that also fogged a lot. I finally bought the ones I originally wanted 3 years later for $280 and have a great pair of binoculars. I spent a total of $485. Because of this, I did what Templar suggested to you and save money to buy the Eotech. I've now saved the money and recently bought the Aimpoint PRO. I think the PRO is the best deal going.
Buy the Aimpoint PRO. It seems to be a M3 with a mount. I learned a hard lesson buying binoculars a few years ago. Rather than spend $250 for the ones I wanted I bought an $85 pair. They fogged bad so I bought a $120 pair that also fogged a lot. I finally bought the ones I originally wanted 3 years later for $280 and have a great pair of binoculars. I spent a total of $485. Because of this, I did what Templar suggested to you and save money to buy the Eotech. I've now saved the money and recently bought the Aimpoint PRO. I think the PRO is the best deal going.
I agree i just got a Aimpoint PRO and sighted it in today ,A great RDS at a great price !!
Belmont31R
04-04-11, 00:04
I've seen "bargain" RDS's fail within 50 rds.
Be honest with yourself though. This is a professional oriented site...meaning people generally are here for guns they use for duty, home defense, training, mil, and not your average guy who shoots dirt clods for fun.
If all you are is a dirt clod shooter, and no intentions of this being a serious use gun (duty or what you grab when you hear glass breaking at 2AM) then just get whatever.
If you want an optic you can rely on to get you through serious duty/combat/AND stake your life on when you get that thud at o dark thirty then get a real top grade optic not whats cheap from china.
If funds are tight save what you can...look for used stuff, too. I just sold a Aimpoint T1 in near new condition with Larue mount on here for 525 when they are 650 from LaRue.
Look for some useless shit around your house to sell. Most people have thousands of dollars tied up into junk sitting around their house.
Think about and analyze what exactly a holographic optic is - a collection of glass, electronics, and lithium batteries attached to a firearm. By their very nature, they can have many different failure points, especially when exposed to temperature extremes, high G loading, and especially operator error. Even things like the batteries themselves failing causes huge issues (see EOTech XPS), the contacts blipping under the shock of firing has caused numerous issues; small issues like a turret allowing a zero to drift, and then there's the whole litany of stupid user tricks like leaving optics on, cranking away on rheostats, etc.
I have pretty extensive experience with chinese made optics (on airsoft stuff primarily), and for doing everything but actually firing centerfire rifles, the stuff actually performs. Sure, the battery life is atrocious, the glass quality is mediocre, but hell, they look cool on internet forums. The better ones even hold their own on .22 rifles (though some will start to noticeably drift zero). Thanks kindly, but there's a reason I have 7 Aimpoints now.
I'm quite certain that the military would loooooove to use cheaper optics, but even they realized they couldn't afford to keep swapping out the ones that go TU.
If you're running on a super tight budget, and brother, I do understand what that means, then run your irons, and start an Aimpoint or Eotech jar, putting a couple bucks in it when you can, and pretty soon, you'll have the money that you need for a professional grade optic.
This is the best advice you're going to get.
zk
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-04-11, 10:56
I pay big bucks for the battery life and quality of build. My Aimpoint M4 has a battery life of 8 years....on an AA battery, my H1 has 5 years. They are built like tanks. Simple as that for me.
Cylinder Head
04-04-11, 12:37
I've turned my Aimpoint CompM3 off once. To change the battery. In three years.
I ran irons for a long time until my brother got and eotech and it was great. It made shooting with both eyes open more comfortable. I just saved money until I could afford an aimpoint T1 combo from LaRue. I put the T1 through 2 high round carbine courses and I had no problems. The only maintenance I did was wipe off the powder residue on the front of the lens. I am tired of having gear around the house that I don't use so I saved my money for something that I knew would last and could keep on my rifle for a long time.
Gunfighter 9
04-06-11, 06:31
In my opinion the Aimpoint series of sights is worth every penny. They are not just blowing smoke up your ass about the battery life. For me the issue of battery life is critical. My carbine is my primary go to gun for home defense. Therefore, I need an optic that can be left on constantly without needing a new battery every few months, weeks or days. I have no first hand experience with the EOTech stuff so I will not comment on their quality, etc. If you're on a tight budget you might consider the Aimpoint R-1. There are several retailers on line still offering great deals on this optic. It does come with a silver colored finish to it, but that can be fixed with a little paint. In the end you definitely get what you pay for. I did consider at one point buying a Vortex optic, but if you read carefully they are not parallax free inside of 50 yards. This is something to take into consideration, especially given the fact that most people would defensively use a carbine at ranges under 50 yards. Good luck to you.
When I first bought an AR-15, I didn't know any better and bought a cheap RDS. It was always losing zero, the mount didn't stay tight, and something inside it rattled. After a while, the dot was suddenly at the very top of the glass and I couldn't get it back down with any amount of adjustments or coaxing.
I replaced it with an EOTech 512 in a GG&G AccuCam mount. It has held up well and it's still in use, but it's a bit large and heavy, and I don't trust the battery compartment as I've seen them pop open in use. I also have an EOTech XPS-2, which is much smaller and lighter and I got it at a good price. The battery mount is better, but the way it's oriented means you need to be very careful with your battery selection--feed it only the best batteries, as inexpensive ones can crack. I do like the EOTechs, but the reticles are a little bit busy for me. It could be my eye sight (I have a number of issues including a mild astigmatism) so I can't fault them for that, especially since I know some people prefer their reticles over a simple dot.
Mostly I like the Aimpoint H-1. I tend to be a bit of a fumbler when cleaning guns, and there have been a couple times I've dropped an upper on the ground, optic first. The next time I take the gun to the range, I find it held zero and has no issues. I've had mine hit with hot brass, banged it on things, and generally mistreated them and they have always come back for more.
Basically, take Templar's advice. Run your irons until you can swing the cost difference for a quality optic. Especially if you're worried about SHTF scenarios, as you'd likely end up having to use your irons eventually.
Guys, thanks for all the advice...
I just bought a magpull rear BUS (to replace the stock carry handle iron). I'm taking to the range this weekend to zero, and while im in the process of saving pennies, I'll be honing my skill and getting used to the MBUS.
I think I'll skip the vortex and go straight for something im not afraid of having to trust the warranty.
Guys, thanks for all the advice...
I just bought a magpull rear BUS (to replace the stock carry handle iron). I'm taking to the range this weekend to zero, and while im in the process of saving pennies, I'll be honing my skill and getting used to the MBUS.
I think I'll skip the vortex and go straight for something im not afraid of having to trust the warranty.
Sounds good. Buying cheap is a false economy, and for those of us that have to count pennies, we need all the real economy we can get.
The new Aimpoint Patrol Optic looks really good at around $400, which includes the mount.
I've looked at the Aimpoint patrol optic - I like the pricepoint.
I think my decision past this point is going to be between an EOTech 517 and an Aimpoint patrol. From the little bit that I've played with (in the stores around here) different types of sights, i prefer the reticle on the EOTech, but the battery life on the AP's is really appealing.
I've looked at the Aimpoint patrol optic - I like the pricepoint.
I think my decision past this point is going to be between an EOTech 517 and an Aimpoint patrol. From the little bit that I've played with (in the stores around here) different types of sights, i prefer the reticle on the EOTech, but the battery life on the AP's is really appealing.
The battery life is a big reason I love Aimipoints. My HD gun next to my bed has an Aimpoint H-1 on it set to 8 so I can see it with the flashlight on. It's been on over a year. It's worth the peace of mind knowing it's one less thing I need to worry about if I hear my door getting smashed down in the middle of the night.
So, if you buy something for "SHTF" that's got a great warranty, and it shits the bed, will that great warranty help you out then?
Here's the deal, you absolutely do get what you pay for. The lesser quality clone optics will not hold up to the conditions that a military grade optic will. I'm 99% certain that even the Vortex guys say that their stuff is not meant for duty.
If you're running on a super tight budget, and brother, I do understand what that means, then run your irons, and start an Aimpoint or Eotech jar, putting a couple bucks in it when you can, and pretty soon, you'll have the money that you need for a professional grade optic.
If you can afford a $200 optic, you're about half way there to the real deal.
Also, look at buying a good condition used one from a reputable member (I'd avoid places like Ebay because of all the Chicom airsoft clones). Aimpoint just released their Patrol Optic, which comes with a useable mount, and should be about $440 or so total.
If you're buying an optic, or a weapon, that you even slightly think might be pressed into service for defense of yourself or your family, then you need the best that you can get. If that means scrimping and saving for a while, and running irons, then that's what it means, and you'll be a better shooter for it at the end of the day.
Templar hit this one out of the park. Listen to the words of wisdom. You'd be better off saving for a while. I have three kids and lots of bills too. I've had to sell some toys to meet my responsibilities. The EE here is an Outstanding place to buy high quality and most often lightly used gear at sale prices.
I would save a while and buy an Aimpoint. It wil last and it will work when/if you need it.
Check it out:
http://m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=120
If funds are tight save what you can...look for used stuff, too. I just sold a Aimpoint T1 in near new condition with Larue mount on here for 525 when they are 650 from LaRue.
Look for some useless shit around your house to sell. Most people have thousands of dollars tied up into junk sitting around their house.
I bought my first Aimpoint, an M3, from Belmont! :D It is still kicking strong and the price was around $400 with the LaRue mount.
FWIW, I have a Vortex Strikefire on my 9mm Beretta CX4 and it's held zero perfectly since I got it. It's a 4moa model with R/G dots and rides in the 30mm low mount. I picked it up on a group buy for $125 shipped. Down side---it shuts off after 4 or 8 hours if I remember correctly.
Keep looking hard for the Aimpoints. I picked up my Comp M2 from Sportsmans Whse last year when they were $319....it rides in a Larue LT-129 on my 6.8 12" SBR.
If you read the other thread in this subforum about Ancient Aimpoints you'll see I have a AP2k that I picked up for $25 a couple years ago just as a plinking sight. I'm glad I did because I recently took it out on my 10.5" 7.62x39 SBR upper and zeroed it and it worked perfectly. It runs on a CR123 battery of which I have dozens and the dot is clear. It will not turn off unless I tell it to and I'm just keeping it turned on jus to see how long it'll go. I have a feeling it will be in the thousands of hours before I'm complete. I do not recommend it as a SHTF optic as the tube is smaller (1" mount needed) but with BEO technique it works fine. My 10.5" x39 gun is a cheap blaster anyway but runs extremely well. Good luck saving up for your new optic. You'll be glad you got an Aimpoint :D
Yeah one of the Aimpoints in the other thread is going strong after 27 years!
Bionic Dead
04-29-11, 16:59
I've looked at the Aimpoint patrol optic - I like the pricepoint.
I think my decision past this point is going to be between an EOTech 517 and an Aimpoint patrol. From the little bit that I've played with (in the stores around here) different types of sights, i prefer the reticle on the EOTech, but the battery life on the AP's is really appealing.
I have the Eotech 517...I got it off of gunbroker for $350.00 used...when I got it, it looked like it had spent most of its time in a safe. Anyway, I have put it through the ringer and it keeps coming. I love the reticle, as target aquisition comes fast. AP does have better battery life, no doubt. Happened to get a great deal on it, and it has been great. Oh yeah, i bounce it back and forth between my AR and 12ga shotgun.
I have the Eotech 517...I got it off of gunbroker for $350.00 used...when I got it, it looked like it had spent most of its time in a safe. Anyway, I have put it through the ringer and it keeps coming. I love the reticle, as target aquisition comes fast. AP does have better battery life, no doubt. Happened to get a great deal on it, and it has been great. Oh yeah, i bounce it back and forth between my AR and 12ga shotgun.
how often does your EOtech switch rides? Do you take the time to readjust zero when you move it over to the 12ga? if not, then when you put it back on your AR, does it retain the previous zero well?
Bionic Dead
04-29-11, 20:25
I just re-bore sight the gun its going on and redial it in later. I have family land nearby so its no biggie to just run over and dial the weapon in. Holding zero has never been an issue with my 517.
I've seen "bargain" RDS's fail within 50 rds.
Be honest with yourself though. This is a professional oriented site...meaning people generally are here for guns they use for duty, home defense, training, mil, and not your average guy who shoots dirt clods for fun.
If all you are is a dirt clod shooter, and no intentions of this being a serious use gun (duty or what you grab when you hear glass breaking at 2AM) then just get whatever.
If you want an optic you can rely on to get you through serious duty/combat/AND stake your life on when you get that thud at o dark thirty then get a real top grade optic not whats cheap from china.
If funds are tight save what you can...look for used stuff, too. I just sold a Aimpoint T1 in near new condition with Larue mount on here for 525 when they are 650 from LaRue.
Look for some useless shit around your house to sell. Most people have thousands of dollars tied up into junk sitting around their house.
All of these are great and valid points. You need to be honest with yourself about the "what" and "why" of your purchase. For example, I have a cheap Primary Arms RDS (clone of an Aimpint micro) on my AK-47 that I use for hogs or just playing. On my duty rifle, I use the best optics I can. If the lives of others are at stake, then buy the highest quality you can for the realistic demands of your mission. That applies to almost any weapon or sighting system.
FWIW, as much as I like the EOTech reticle, and as much as I have tried to give EOTech an honest chance, I'm going back to Aimpoint. I used an EOTech on my competition rifle and it died on me at the last stage of the Texas State 3-Gun Match. I ran an Aimpoint on my SWAT rifle for 7 years and it never failed me...ever. I have another EOTech that is getting "fuzzy" and which has the standard, issued-at-the-factory problem with the battery compartment. We just finished running over 100 patrol rifle officers through their annual refresher training and...sure enough....had 2 new EOTechs start giving us trouble. No trouble with Aimpoints.
Templar and Belmont31R gave some great advice in this thread. Based on my own professional, real-world experience, I strongly recommend that if you need a RDS it for life-saving, get an Aimpoint. Take care and good luck with your decision.
how often does your EOtech switch rides? Do you take the time to readjust zero when you move it over to the 12ga? if not, then when you put it back on your AR, does it retain the previous zero well?
I have an EOTech that I move between a couple different guns. I'm using the GG&G Accucam mount on it, which seems to keep a consistent zero, though slightly different between the 2 guns. I bought mine with the GG&G mount attached, so am not sure how it compares to the stock one. I don't typically shoot more than 50 yards with either of those guns, so take this for what it's worth.
Magic_Salad0892
05-07-11, 04:38
The day after I bought an Aimpoint M4S, I dropped my gun directly on top of the optic. On a rock, or something stupid.
No zero shift, the brightness dial didn't move, no glass cracking, nothing.
I just blew on the lens, and kept on going.
Try that with a C-More. Shit would snap in half.
Repeatedly hit a C-More against shit, because in real training, and life. Shit gets beat up.
Aimpoints seem to hold their value significantly better. I've owned many of both before finally running only Aimpoints. I was always a bit faster up close with the Eotech's the T-1 changed that a bit and now I am close. The Eotech/Aimpoint debate will never end. Decide what you like. I like the robustness and battery life I get out of Aimpoints. Mine just stay on. I like the field of view and speed (at least for me) of the Eotech. It is too bad you cannot get together with some fellow members or friends and try both. Stay away from third tier optics. Save up master your irons (which is hard to argue not a bad thing) Best of luck.
Eotech is apparently working hard to improve battery life.
Same story here. Three kids, the youngest is only two months old. I tried a few junkers because I couldn't justify the price of an EOTech or Aimpoint to myself, let alone the Mrs. Then after getting tired of trying to make shitty optics work halfway decent I bit the bullet and got an EOTech. I figured, "Hey, I'll just try it out and if it doesn't wow me I can always send it back. Go Amazon!"
Needless to say I still have it. I managed to get my wife (who hated guns until a couple months ago) to go shooting with me and she loved it. Seriously, until you try one or at least see a really good video demo (try youtube), you can't understand how good an EOTech is. Target acquisition (for me and my wife at least) is damn near instantaneous. No joke. Plus, it's zero and forget. It zeros to the gun, not the user.
Eotech is apparently working hard to improve battery life.
A laser projected holographic reticle will never have the battery life of an LED projected reticle; it's just the nature of power usage.
The Eotech/Aimpoint debate will never end.
The fanboys will always make that the case: be they ford/chevy, xbox/ps3, 1911/glock, iphone/android or whatever.
What one needs to keep in mind is that when credible people are on both sides of an issue, it is quite possible that neither side is entirely correct or incorrect.
However, nary will you see someone credible touting some chicomm knock-off optics. There is a reason for that.
christcorp
05-17-11, 08:57
I don't think there's anything wrong with the battery life of an Eotech. 1000 hrs using lithium or 600 hrs using alkaline is more than enough. The ONLY time that the battery life of an Aimpoint is an advantage in the Non-Military world, is if you put your rifle/with scope away and never shoot it; and expect it to be ready for a self defense scenario. Personally, if you leave a gun in a safe or in the house for home defense, and you haven't shot it in a 6mo-12mo, then you've got some other things you should be concerned about.
I personally don't have any need for battery life that's measured in years. I change the batteries in my smoke detector in my house twice a year; I can change the batter in a scope. Especially when they are inexpensive and common batteries like AA or N.
Have you considered one of the Aimpoint 9000 series? I have a 9000sc and dig it. You can usually find them at a bargain too.
Jordan
Have you considered one of the Aimpoint 9000 series? I have a 9000sc and dig it. You can usually find them at a bargain too.
Jordan
I havent looked at the 9000 series. Is the battery life comparable?
I havent looked at the 9000 series. Is the battery life comparable?
The website says 5 years continuous/50,000 hrs:
http://www.aimpoint.com/us/products/all-products/product-singleview/product/9000SC/
I've got one on my DDM4. If you want I can post a mounted pic.
Jordan
With your money being tight, I would suggest just wait untill you can buy an aimpoint. I had an EOTech 512 for 3 weeks. A lens inside came loose after less than 80 shots downrange.As soon as I recieved it from repair I put it up for sale. If you don't want to buy the aimpoint, just get the vortex, it can't be any worse than my EOTech was.
If you want to buy crap go ahead. Don't suggest it to the rest of us. A $100 RDS is CRAP!
If you want an Eotech that's cool. They're well made. Lots of guys want their weapons and gear for defense of life and that is why so many choose an AimPoint. They're the most rugged and provide the best battery life. This provideds the best fighting ability. If your looking to use your gun for something other than life or death buy a chicom RDS and slap it on a POS gun. It's your life.
I don't sleep with my rifle and gas mask anymore either.
Happy Memorial Day and God Bless those sleeping with their weapons tonight so many of us don't have to.
Man, I'm sorta tempted just to re-post what I initially wrote in this thread... :D
This EOtech/Aimpoint garbage frothing is getting as old as 9mm/.45ACP
I cant seem to find the Aimpoint Pro instock anywhere. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
I initially started out with an Eotech 553 and loved the 65/1 MOA dot. The only con that I couldn't get over was the weight of the optic. I purchased an Aimpoint T1 and it too is a great optic. It's also 2/3rds the weight of the 553. It's nice having the extended battery life also. If it weren't for the huge weight difference of both optics I'd be fine with either one. When I get another upper I'll throw on the Eotech and have no problems.
One thing I would never do is put junk on one of my weapons. As others have said, save up and purchase whichever sight you like best. Either the Eotech or Aimpoint is a fine optic. The Aimpoint PRO has a great price point. Seems like it would be very difficult to beat.
If your rifle or carbine is something that is in your armory as a defensive or duty piece, then put a duty grade optic on it. Anything else and you are rolling the dice.
This site, M4Carbine.net, is geared towards duty grade equipment, not airsoft grade.
christcorp
05-31-11, 13:42
If you want to buy crap go ahead. Don't suggest it to the rest of us. A $100 RDS is CRAP!
If you want an Eotech that's cool. They're well made. Lots of guys want their weapons and gear for defense of life and that is why so many choose an AimPoint. They're the most rugged and provide the best battery life. This provideds the best fighting ability. If your looking to use your gun for something other than life or death buy a chicom RDS and slap it on a POS gun. It's your life.
I don't sleep with my rifle and gas mask anymore either.
Happy Memorial Day and God Bless those sleeping with their weapons tonight so many of us don't have to.
So you're saying the EOTech isn't good enough for "Defense of Life"? I would totally disagree. Unless you plan on using your rifle as a battering ram, or plan on crawling in the mud under the barbed wire you surrounded your house with, the eotech is plenty rugged enough. It will even continue to work with broken lenses. As for battery life, that isn't that big of a thing. Not unless you're the type that puts your rifle away and never take it out for years at a time. The eotech used for 2 hours every day, would last almost a year. If you're not firing your defensive weapons as least every couple of months, you have other concerns.
If your rifle or carbine is something that is in your armory as a defensive or duty piece, then put a duty grade optic on it. Anything else and you are rolling the dice.
Regardless of a weapon being duty grade or not why put something cheap on it. I totally agree with what Templar is saying and I would add that to about any situation. My thoughts are that you should always put the most reliable optic you can possibly afford on your weapon. If you buy the $100 dollar RDS and it fails, especially more than once then you have wasted a ton of time and money. I'd rather wait a few more months and save my pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters to get the sight I should. A little bit of patience could mean the difference between life and death. Sounds extreme, but what if that former paper puncher only weapon is pressed into a self defense role and the cheap chinese RDS fails at just the wrong time?
christcorp
05-31-11, 15:05
Regardless of a weapon being duty grade or not why put something cheap on it. I totally agree with what Templar is saying and I would add that to about any situation. My thoughts are that you should always put the most reliable optic you can possibly afford on your weapon. If you buy the $100 dollar RDS and it fails, especially more than once then you have wasted a ton of time and money. I'd rather wait a few more months and save my pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters to get the sight I should. A little bit of patience could mean the difference between life and death. Sounds extreme, but what if that former paper puncher only weapon is pressed into a self defense role and the cheap chinese RDS fails at just the wrong time?
I agree 100%. Especially for a defensive weapon. Here's a question however: You say it's better to wait a few months and save up for the sight you should. I can buy that. But what happens if the "Defensive Scenario" that so many people here is anticipating, happens during those few months that you're saving your pennies and nickles? That's the MAIN REASON I always have iron sights on any weapon I might even consider using for defensive purposes. Electronics break. Batteries do die. Even in a $500+ aimpoint or eotech. And therefor, if you have a good set of backup iron sights, it shouldn't matter how good or bad the electronic optics are. Because in real world defensive situation, "Civilian, not Military", the defensive use is going to be at close distances. Just wondering about those few months you're saving up for the "Right Sight". I guess No-Sight is better than a $100 sight.
So, if you buy something for "SHTF" that's got a great warranty, and it shits the bed, will that great warranty help you out then?
Here's the deal, you absolutely do get what you pay for. The lesser quality clone optics will not hold up to the conditions that a military grade optic will. I'm 99% certain that even the Vortex guys say that their stuff is not meant for duty.
If you're running on a super tight budget, and brother, I do understand what that means, then run your irons, and start an Aimpoint or Eotech jar, putting a couple bucks in it when you can, and pretty soon, you'll have the money that you need for a professional grade optic.
If you can afford a $200 optic, you're about half way there to the real deal.
Also, look at buying a good condition used one from a reputable member (I'd avoid places like Ebay because of all the Chicom airsoft clones). Aimpoint just released their Patrol Optic, which comes with a useable mount, and should be about $440 or so total.
If you're buying an optic, or a weapon, that you even slightly think might be pressed into service for defense of yourself or your family, then you need the best that you can get. If that means scrimping and saving for a while, and running irons, then that's what it means, and you'll be a better shooter for it at the end of the day.
I guess I'll have to quote myself.
I agree 100%. Especially for a defensive weapon. Here's a question however: You say it's better to wait a few months and save up for the sight you should. I can buy that. But what happens if the "Defensive Scenario" that so many people here is anticipating, happens during those few months that you're saving your pennies and nickles? That's the MAIN REASON I always have iron sights on any weapon I might even consider using for defensive purposes. Electronics break. Batteries do die. Even in a $500+ aimpoint or eotech. And therefor, if you have a good set of backup iron sights, it shouldn't matter how good or bad the electronic optics are. Because in real world defensive situation, "Civilian, not Military", the defensive use is going to be at close distances. Just wondering about those few months you're saving up for the "Right Sight". I guess No-Sight is better than a $100 sight.
I believe irons are always a must. I wouldn't go without them.
So you're saying the EOTech isn't good enough for "Defense of Life"? I would totally disagree. Unless you plan on using your rifle as a battering ram, or plan on crawling in the mud under the barbed wire you surrounded your house with, the eotech is plenty rugged enough. It will even continue to work with broken lenses. As for battery life, that isn't that big of a thing. Not unless you're the type that puts your rifle away and never take it out for years at a time. The eotech used for 2 hours every day, would last almost a year. If you're not firing your defensive weapons as least every couple of months, you have other concerns.
That is not what I said or meant. Here is what I said:
Originally Posted by usmcvet
If you want to buy crap go ahead. Don't suggest it to the rest of us. A $100 RDS is CRAP!
If you want an Eotech that's cool. They're well made. Lots of guys want their weapons and gear for defense of life and that is why so many choose an AimPoint. They're the most rugged and provide the best battery life. This provideds the best fighting ability. If your looking to use your gun for something other than life or death buy a chicom RDS and slap it on a POS gun. It's your life.
I don't sleep with my rifle and gas mask anymore either.
Happy Memorial Day and God Bless those sleeping with their weapons tonight so many of us don't have to.
I think Eotech's are well made. They do not work well for me because of my astigmatism, they're also not a $100 CHICOM POS like tac star.
I would not feel bad if I were issued an Eotech. You just have to deal with the battery issues. The battery life of an Aimpoint makes it a set it and forget it RDS. If you grab for it in the middle of the night or the middle of your shift there is a very good chance it will not be on and you will have to turn it on. I don't sleep or work 2 hours a day. I think their batteries turn off after 8 hours. I work ten hour shifts. With an Aimpoint you do not have to remember to turn it on or take the time to turn it on. Seconds can make the difference.
When it comes down to spending my money I choose to spend mine on Aimpoints. Again Eotech's are fine, I think Aimpoints are better and cheap $100 sights are JUNK.
And with that, I think we can close this out.
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