SUGGESTIONS ON TACTICAL SCHOOLS

[skydiverricardo]

Hey guys,

I just wanted some feedback from the people who have attended any of the major tactical schools, Blackwater, Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, or any others. I really want to go ahead and attend any of the major schools to take several courses including Tactical Pistol, Tactical Carbine, Carbine/pistol, etc.

Now that I have the guns I need to take the courses, I want to get some formal training (I do shoot weekly for fun). I have the money to spend on the courses and the ammo and would like to take them all as close together as possible and as soon as possible.

I really would appreciate the feedback if anyone has had experience with any of the major schools.

Thanks guys.

Ricardo

[rhino]

If you can afford to go to Thunder Ranch and/or Gunsite, you should!

I hope to make the pilgrimage to Gunsite some day.

[Snake RAH]

I don't have feedback on those schools, but just want to commend you for taking that first step towards getting some good training. Too many people are out in the world never get beyond the collection phase.

[John_Wayne777]

Now that I have the guns I need to take the courses, I want to get some formal training (I do shoot weekly for fun). I have the money to spend on the courses and the ammo and would like to take them all as close together as possible and as soon as possible.

I really would appreciate the feedback if anyone has had experience with any of the major schools.

Thanks guys.


I've taken several courses at Blackwater, and I've always been pleased with the experience. I've learned a great deal there, both from the instructors and from fellow students.

BW is bar none the finest facility I've ever seen. The instruction I have had there has ranged from good to excellent. Recently they began hiring a cadre of really good full-time instructors who bring a lot of experience to the table as well as the ability to teach. (Not everyone with lots of experience is a good instructor...)

If you are a beginner, Tactical Handgun I should be the first course you take which will introduce you to the fundamentals of range safety and shooting in general, and then the "Bushmaster Carbine Operator's" course will build fundamental skills with the carbine. The exact content of the class depends largely on the class itself and how well everyone is progressing. If you have a class that picks up the basics quickly the instructor will often pick up the challenge level.

I've also had the opportunity to train with Larry Vickers. You should make every effort to train under him when you get an opportunity to. Ditto Pat Rogers and Ken Hackathorn.

Those instructors don't often have the luxury a really awesome facility like Blackwater does, but their level of instruction isn't hindered by that.

[Business_Casual]

BW is bar none the finest facility I've ever seen. The instruction I have had there has ranged from good to excellent. Recently they began hiring a cadre of really good full-time instructors who bring a lot of experience to the table as well as the ability to teach. (Not everyone with lots of experience is a good instructor...)

That is a very good description of BW. I would go back there, particulary if I could pick the instructor(s).

M_P

[MX5]

It's good to see you're considering professional training. Too many people would rather spend their money on more guns than to learn to properly and competently operate those they have. First considerations are what you want to learn and where you're located. Only you can make the learning decision. There are very fine instructors that travel to certain areas due to the base of shooters available that seek quality instruction. Obviously, if you can train near where you live, the savings in travel expenses can go towards ammo. Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, Pat Rogers, John Farnam and others travel to some areas to train shooters. Some schools must be traveled-to in order to receive their instruction. There are many good schools and instructors and you'll receive many recommendations from everyone you speak to. Chose carefully and spend your money wisely. Tactical Defense Institute, Gunsite and Thunder Ranch are highly regarded.

[rob_s]

Ricardo, where are you located? Some people may be able to make suggestions based on your location.

[User Name]

If you can afford to go to Thunder Ranch and/or Gunsite, you should!

I hope to make the pilgrimage to Gunsite some day.

Everyone should make a Gunsite pilgrimage. Though I thought they run a cold range.
I'd like to go but I hear they are like country clubs.

Pat Rogers EAG Tactical or Louis Awerbuck for me. Less expensive than the GS or TR academy but both these guys are right on.

[Treehopr]

Gunsite was the second "school" I went to and I enjoyed it immensely. I was fortunate enough to attend prior to Col. Cooper's passing.

Having said that I doubt I would spend the money to go back based on my current location. I've taken several classes from itinerant instructors such as Pat Rogers as well as Bennie Cooley, Larry Vickers and Paul Howe.

If I were a beginning student with no formal training I would probably go with Paul Howe or Larry Vickers. Pat & Bennie are great but I think someone would get more out of the class if they already have the marksmanship and weapons manipulations down.

There are other great instructors out there and I look forward to training with all of them :D

[skydiverricardo]

Guys,

I really appreciate all the comments. I like Blackwater as it's in the east coast (I live in Miami Beach) and it would be easy for me to drive up. Also, I've heard that they have lodging facilities which makes life a little easier.

However, I'm considering all the other schools as well. I have not made up my mind yet at all.

I guess I need to look at the schedules of each school as well and see if they fit my schedule.

Again thanks for all the feedback. Keep it coming. So many of you have soooo much more experience than I do and anything that you guys can offer me in terms of advice is well received.

Ricardo

[Erick Gelhaus]

In addition to those already mentioned, a couple of other options that travel to your area are Randy Cain, www.guntactics.com, and Scott Reitz, www.internationaltactical.com

Both are knowledgable and good instructors.

[larrytelcom@yahoo.com]

Was new to the forum and looking to get some ffedback on the O'Gara Group; wondering about the training they offer in particular their tactical/weapons trng, maritime security/interdiction, PSD trng and more advanced trng they offer (HALO) etc. Any feedback would be appreciated.

[John_Wayne777]

Guys,

I really appreciate all the comments. I like Blackwater as it's in the east coast (I live in Miami Beach) and it would be easy for me to drive up. Also, I've heard that they have lodging facilities which makes life a little easier.


The bunkhouse is where lots of the fun part of Blackwater happens. Cleaning your rifle alongside guys from 3rd SF is a great time to get some good info you can't get many other places....:)

The bunkhouse is the most reasonable option financially, and it is the best option for the sake of your gear. You don't really want to be toting around a lot of hardware in and out of cheap motels in Chesapeake.

Nobody messes with anything that isn't theirs in the bunkhouse, and nobody freaks out when a guy walks in with an M249 and a couple of M4's. (empty ones, of course....don't run around the bunkhouse with loaded weapons...)

[John Hearne]

If you're in Florida, I'd check out Southern Exposure Training (www.southernexposuretraining.com). They host some top-notch instructors. I'd highly recommend Randy Cain's Tactical Handgun 101 for a novice/intro class.

[ErnieB]

The last time I was at Blackwater I learned some cool stuff from other attendees in the bunkhouse. Highly recommended.

[rob_s]

If you're in Florida, I'd check out Southern Exposure Training (www.southernexposuretraining.com). They host some top-notch instructors. I'd highly recommend Randy Cain's Tactical Handgun 101 for a novice/intro class.

Agreed, and I'd add that Randy's carbine course is a perfect first class on that platform as well.

Randy will also be doing a Handgun 101 class in the Florida Keys January 7-9. I don't know how you could ask for a class in a better place at a better time.:D

[Treehopr]

Ricardo,

zushwa hosts/coordinates quite a few courses with different instructors (including Larry Vickers) on the east coast.

Would any of these: http://www.greygrouptraining.biz/SearchResults.asp?Cat=24 work for you?

[abnartyguy]

R,
I can strongly recommend Vickers if your just starting to take a few classes, I had my first class with him and wow, he opened my mind to all kinds of new things. The amount of thought he has in his subject is mind-blowing. After that I would strongly recommend a Coolie or a Hackathorn and if your up to it a Super Dave. A strong diet of ammo and gun scrubber and you'll be ready to take on the world, later!
-Zef M.

[rhino]

If you're in Florida, I'd check out Southern Exposure Training (www.southernexposuretraining.com). They host some top-notch instructors. I'd highly recommend Randy Cain's Tactical Handgun 101 for a novice/intro class.


Amen! Irv provides exellent opportunities to the people of Florida!

[Business_Casual]

R,
and if your up to it a Super Dave. A strong diet of ammo and gun scrubber and you'll be ready to take on the world, later!
-Zef M.

Speaking of Super D, anyone know what his open class schedule is for the Fall?

M_P

[meat]

Henk Iverson. Strike Tactical Solutions. If you are ever in N. Indiana or IL, look up their class schedule. Lots of great info and concepts there; relevant, up to date info from a top use-of-force trainer as well. Fun classes, easy to understand and learn. You should show up with an understanding of basic gun handling skills, and at least have an idea of where the front sight is on the gun. Henk doesn't want to teach you to shoot, he wants to teach you how to fight.
Iverson's classes are both enjoyable and informative. I have attended multiple times and have learned something new every single class.
www.striketactical.com

S/F
-R.J.
"If you YUT them they will..."

[ErnieB]

I may be somewhat biased but LMS Defense hosts some great courses. Check them out at www.lmsdefense.com

[Street Survival]

I took the Advanced Tactical Handgun Course and shot 5,000 rounds in 4 1/2 days. I had a great time and would go back with minutes notice. I met some great shooters and our instructor was top notch. They also have the Blackwater Alumni Association which is a nice benefit for future training.

[John_Wayne777]

I took the Advanced Tactical Handgun Course and shot 5,000 rounds in 4 1/2 days. I had a great time and would go back with minutes notice. I met some great shooters and our instructor was top notch. They also have the Blackwater Alumni Association which is a nice benefit for future training.

I don't know what the whole BAA is about....they keep sending me mailings but I usually put them in the round file.

I haven't been there in over a year while but last I knew they had a former DEVGRU SEAL teaching the advanced handgun class (there's only one per year, usually) and he's a great instructor.

I wouldn't hesitate to take any class that had that instructor leading it.

[rhino]

Henk Iverson. Strike Tactical Solutions.

www.striketactical.com



I will second the recommendation for STRIKE tactical and Henk Iverson. He is a truly gifted instructor and has a fresh perspective on things that is probably different than what most people have experienced. He won't teach you anything that he is not absolutely convinced will work for you. While he does not teach "shooting," per se, his demand for accuracy is higher than most other instructors, so you'd better be able to shoot well under stress when you're exhausted. His qualifications at the end of the classes require 100% of the hits on an index card with a time limit. You only get the "successfully completed" on your certificate if you pass. He also demos all of the drills without live fire, then with live fire himself. He's a really good shooter, which while not 100% necessary to be a good teacher, it does instill confidence in the lessons.

In addition, he's a great guy. Many of the people I've met or encountered who have his level of personal intensity and practical experience have been total a**holes, but he is not. Even though the classes are all about "fighting," or rather prevailing in an armed conflict, he does not denigrate competition shooters as do so many other instructors. For those of us with feet in both worlds, that's a good thing.

The one downside is that his classes at the facility in Illinois are for civilian police and military types only. If you want to the Henk experience, you'll have to host him or go somewhere where he is doing a class that allows private citizens. I'll be hosting an open enrollment class in September of 2008 here in Indiana (no details yet; I haven't decided if it will be handgun, carbine, or both).

[Greyman09]

I can only recommend who I have trained with and they were excellent

Pat Rogers
Larry Vickers
LMSdefense( good group of squared away guys)

[Sidewinder6]

Amen! Irv provides exellent opportunities to the people of Florida!

I also agree with everyone here about Irv's facility. S.E. is a great place.