View Full Version : Muslims Kills 7 Over Burnt Koran...
Religion of Peace strikes again...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110401/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan
KABUL, Afghanistan – Afghans angry over the burning of a Quran at a small Florida church stormed a U.N. compound in northern Afghanistan on Friday, killing seven foreigners, including four Nepalese guards.
I think it would be more accurate to say that illiterate/uneducated tribesmen/peasants get riled up over what a local mullah with delusions of grandeur (who is also probably illiterate) who wanted to make a name for himself.
Same kind of crap that our ancestors back in Europe would have done 500 years ago, or during the Salem witch trials....
Mix absolute faith and an uneducated person/group who trusts someone looking for power, and you get bad shit breaking, no matter if it's Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc.
I don't blame the dumb ass pastor for the deaths, but he sure is a dumb ass attention whore. The 1st amendment is grand but why go stirring the hornets nest when you risk the lives of others from the comfort of your couch.
The 1st amendment is grand but why go stirring the hornets nest when you risk the lives of others from the comfort of your couch.
Just like every politician and dipshit reporter on the evening news.
Business_Casual
04-01-11, 17:51
Same kind of crap that our ancestors back in Europe would have done 500 years ago, or during the Salem witch trials....
Yeah, except most of us stopped doing that, you know, 500 years ago.
B_C
Yeah, except most of us stopped doing that, you know, 500 years ago.
B_C
The human world is not synchronized.
Same kind of crap that our ancestors back in Europe would have done 500 years ago, or during the Salem witch trials....
No, one should NOT justify this behavior in a modern world by equating it with the behavior of folks in the dark ages. Those boys and girls have SAT TV in their abodes and know EXACTLY what they're doing. They are NOT cavemen, they're just as modern as you and I.
Yeah, except most of us stopped doing that, you know, 500 years ago.
B_C
Not going to argue that at all, and that's part of my point....you're talking about a people basically stuck in the iron age but with Kalashnikovs and cell phones.
We don't have to look too far back to see some absolutely ****ed up shit done in the name of Christianity in Germany or Bosnia, or OK City.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not apologizing for those idiots in Afghanistan or the idiot down in FL, I take a rather dim view of organized religion in general.
Business_Casual
04-01-11, 19:21
Not going to argue that at all, and that's part of my point....you're talking about a people basically stuck in the iron age but with Kalashnikovs and cell phones.
We don't have to look too far back to see some absolutely ****ed up shit done in the name of Christianity in Germany or Bosnia, or OK City.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not apologizing for those idiots in Afghanistan or the idiot down in FL, I take a rather dim view of organized religion in general.
The whole Bosnian thing is another place where I disagree with you - I can't see how a war cooked up by Clinton and UN where we sided against the Christians makes any sense. I know, I know, all the war crimes we were told about justify it, etc. No need to flame me with your righteous indignation and call me a bad name. I just am exercising my right to be skeptical of the evidence and motives... Just as I am with the current topic.
B_C
Same kind of crap that our ancestors back in Europe would have done 500 years ago, or during the Salem witch trials....
I don't disagree with that. I guess my point is that ONE RELIGION is still doing this crap. Killing people over the treatment of books and cartoons is very much middle age barbarity on par with witch trials and Inquisitions. It has no place in the modern world.
We don't have to look too far back to see some absolutely ****ed up shit done in the name of Christianity in Germany or Bosnia, or OK City.
I'm assuming you mean Nazi Germany, that was hardly motivated by Christianity. The primary religious context was hatred of the Jews and there is something in Mein Kampf along the lines of "Christianity is the worst trick ever foisted upon humanity by the Jews."
As far as Bosnia, in think that was more a cultural clash than a religious one. Former "nations" with former "hatreds." There were of course religious issues tied in to those cultures but it wasn't a religious conflict like the Crusades. And the Muslims involved weren't exactly whistle clean themselves. But I don't think Islam is the primary culprit in that war either.
And as for OK City, that was a direct retaliation of "anti government" people (who also happened to be racists and followed a racist sect of Christianity aka Christian Identity) against acts like Ruby Ridge and Waco. It was NOT representative of what most consider Christians.
Are the Christian extremists that bomb abortion clinics proportionate to moderate Christians as Muslim extremists are to moderate Muslims? It isn't daily that they make the news, like Islam does?
Are the Christian extremists that bomb abortion clinics proportionate to moderate Christians as Muslim extremists are to moderate Muslims? It isn't daily that they make the news, like Islam does?
If the number of Muslim extremist who commit acts of violence was in any way proportional to Christians and Jews who commit similar acts of religiously motivated violence, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Mix absolute faith and an uneducated person/group who trusts someone looking for power, and you get bad shit breaking, no matter if it's Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc.
Yeah, 'cept I have never heard of a Hindu suicide bomber.
montanadave
04-01-11, 21:06
If a bunch of yahoos from Florida want to burn a Koran, more power to 'em... but let's ship 'em over to Afghanistan and let 'em burn it there.
I'm guessing they wouldn't have the courage of their convictions. Personally, I wish these religious zealots would all gather up in one place, martyr the shit out of one another, and leave the rest of us out of their ridiculous squabbles.
Gutshot John
04-01-11, 21:12
If a bunch of yahoos from Florida want to burn a Koran, more power to 'em... but let's ship 'em over to Afghanistan and let 'em burn it there.
I'm guessing they wouldn't have the courage of their convictions. Personally, I wish these religious zealots would all gather up in one place, martyr the shit out of one another, and leave the rest of us out of their ridiculous squabbles.
Except we live in a country that guarantees a right to freedom of speech, something that doesn't really exist over there.
I don't think burning a Quran is a particularly smart idea, although a lot of dumb ideas are tolerated here, precisely because we can shrug our shoulders and exercise our right to think "that dude's a dumbass" without murdering a bunch of people who had nothing at all to do with said dumbass.
montanadave
04-01-11, 21:22
Except we live in a country that guarantees a right to freedom of speech, something that doesn't really exist over there.
No argument here. I guess I'd just like to see the asshat who stirs up the shit actually have to face the consequences of his actions, rather than some poor innocent SOB that's trying to do a thankless job in a shitty place half a world away.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-01-11, 21:22
No, one should NOT justify this behavior in a modern world by equating it with the behavior of folks in the dark ages. Those boys and girls have SAT TV in their abodes and know EXACTLY what they're doing. They are NOT cavemen, they're just as modern as you and I.
Lol, clearly youve never been to Afghanistan. With all due respect, stop speaking out of your ass.
Monsters act monstrously, and they love it when they can find an excuse for doing what comes naturally to them. Stay vigilant my friends.
Yeah, 'cept I have never heard of a Hindu suicide bomber.
You have now: http://indianmuslims.in/is-it-hindu-terrorism/
Gutshot John
04-01-11, 21:34
No argument here. I guess I'd just like to see the asshat who stirs up the shit actually have to face the consequences of his actions, rather than some poor innocent SOB that's trying to do a thankless job in a shitty place half a world away.
What's worse from a theological perspective?
Burning a book? or Murdering a Person?
Who's the asshat? Maybe the asshat stirring up shit isn't the asshat in question.
John_Wayne777
04-01-11, 22:08
Yeah, 'cept I have never heard of a Hindu suicide bomber.
Every identifiable religious group has violent extremes. No group in the world is exempt. I can find you plenty of examples of Hindu violence, Bhuddist violence, Confucian violence, you name it.
Islam has a theological predilection for violence...one need only look at the life of the prophet to understand why...that some other religions (like Christianity) don't have in regards to the behaviors and teachings of the faith, but once that theology leaves the paper and gets into the hands of people it goes horribly wrong in every faith.
In the middle east Islam is not so much a religion as it is a means of social control. Christianity was also a means of social control at one point in European history...which is why arguments about land, power, and money ended up wrapped in religious language. The same is true in the middle east today. Arafat, for example, made all sorts of appeals to Islamic teaching and brotherhood and would go behind closed doors and sodomize underage boys. Islam was a means of promoting his personal fortune and power. He died a multi-billionaire.
This nonsense in Afghanistan is more of the same.
montanadave
04-01-11, 22:11
What's worse from a theological perspective?
Burning a book? or Murdering a Person?
Who's the asshat? Maybe the asshat stirring up shit isn't the asshat in question.
Who gives a shit in some sleepy little Florida town if this douchebag burns a Koran? Nobody. So why's he doing it? Because he's trying to stir up some shit and get his picture in the paper (and maybe scoop up a couple of extra fivers in the collection plate next Sunday).
And Reverend Bookburner knows full well if it hits the news, some mullah half a world away is gonna use this publicity stunt to stir up his congregation to go out and exact some divine retribution.
Is burning a book the moral equivalent of chopping somebody's head off? Of course not. But if you decide to burn a Koran knowing full well it's going to start a shit storm and people are likely to get seriously messed with, well, in my opinion you bear some level of complicity in whatever chain of events you initiated.
Like I said, all these religious zealots are asshats (in my albeit jaded opinion) and should be afforded the opportunity to have their own private little Armageddon. The last one standing can let the rest of us know who's top god. Hell, turn it into a reality show-- "Last Zealot Standing." I don't care, just leave me and mine out of it. And bear the consequences of your own actions; don't pick the fight and leave somebody else to take the heat.
I take a rather dim view of organized religion in general.
This is where I've been for a while. People need to keep their faith to themselves and not be so damn sensitive about it all around.
John_Wayne777
04-01-11, 22:13
No argument here. I guess I'd just like to see the asshat who stirs up the shit actually have to face the consequences of his actions, rather than some poor innocent SOB that's trying to do a thankless job in a shitty place half a world away.
I'd be content to see the ignorant savages who think that someone thousands of miles away disagreeing with them is license to grab people at random and start cutting off heads die in flames so that the rest of the planet isn't burdened by their barbarism.
...but that's just me.
John_Wayne777
04-01-11, 22:17
This is where I've been for a while. People need to keep their faith to themselves and not be so damn sensitive about it all around.
No, people shouldn't be any more shy to talk about their faith than they are to talk about any other idea or topic.
...but inherent in that right is the responsibility to recognize that there are other views and opinions in the world and not behave like a jackass about it.
Human history has never seemed to have a shortage of reasons for people to kill each other. It's a function of human nature. If tomorrow someone waved a magic wand and all notions of religion disappeared from the collective memory of humanity, the same people would be doing the same things. They'd just give it a different label.
I mean, let's be sensible here, folks: Think of how many people have been slaughtered over differing political philosophies in the last century...but we don't see anyone saying that if you hold a different political philosophy then you should shut the hell up about it, do we?
The kind of assclowns pulling this nonsense are no different than Mao's cadres, Stalin's goon squads, Nazi SS, or gangbangers in L.A. It's the same basic aspect of human nature at play.
Gutshot John
04-01-11, 22:21
Who gives a shit in some sleepy little Florida town if this douchebag burns a Koran? Nobody. So why's he doing it? Because he's trying to stir up some shit and get his picture in the paper (and maybe scoop up a couple of extra fivers in the collection plate next Sunday).
And Reverend Bookburner knows full well if it hits the news, some mullah half a world away is gonna use this publicity stunt to stir up his congregation to go out and exact some divine retribution.
Is burning a book the moral equivalent of chopping somebody's head off? Of course not. But if you decide to burn a Koran knowing full well it's going to start a shit storm and people are likely to get seriously messed with, well, in my opinion you bear some level of complicity in whatever chain of events you initiated.
Like I said, all these religious zealots are asshats (in my albeit jaded opinion) and should be afforded the opportunity to have their own private little Armageddon. The last one standing can let the rest of us know who's top god. Hell, turn it into a reality show-- "Last Zealot Standing." I don't care, just leave me and mine out of it. And bear the consequences of your own actions; don't pick the fight and leave somebody else to take the heat.
About 10 years ago living in DC I found some hippy ****tard burning the American flag. Few things piss me off more than some asshole burning a flag that so many people died for. Yet somehow I managed to restrain myself from pounding said hippy's face into the sidewalk. Why was that?
That you're even applying a double-standard here is pretty disconcerting.
Gee, I wonder what would happen if people of other religious beliefs started killing muslims for destroying their religious books and symbols? :eek:
Of course I know that would never happen because muslims get a pass in today's society. :rolleyes:
Gee, I wonder what would happen if people of other religious beliefs started killing muslims for destroying their religious books and symbols? :eek:
Of course I know that would never happen because muslims get a pass in today's society. :rolleyes:
Everyone has been killed over something at some point. Hindu on Muslim violence is pretty common in India.
John_Wayne777
04-01-11, 23:02
As some evidence of my earlier thesis:
Giants fan in critical condition after being beaten nearly to death by some Dodgers fans (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/04/01/BAM31IONA2.DTL&tsp=1)
As I said: People don't really find it difficult to come up with a reason to kill other people.
Just like every politician and dipshit reporter on the evening news.
Anybody who overreacts to a book being burned in such a way, religious or not, should be shot in the face.
True, and they talk about the dumbasery of the individual while publicizing it for $
No argument here. I guess I'd just like to see the asshat who stirs up the shit actually have to face the consequences of his actions, rather than some poor innocent SOB that's trying to do a thankless job in a shitty place half a world away.
While I understand and agree with your larger point, they would be killing people regardless of if somebody burned a Koran or not. The fact that they willingly kill people for burning books are drawing cartoons is simply demonstration of their willingness to kill for virtually any reason.
And I strongly suspect that is the motivation of a lot of Koran burners, to demonstrate that this is anything but a peaceful religion.
montanadave
04-02-11, 16:05
An interesting addendum to this story.
According to an article in the NYT (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/03/world/asia/03afghanistan.html?_r=1&ref=world), both Afghani and international news organizations made a concerted effort to play down Mr. Jones' Koran burning, which took place in Florida over a week ago. There had been little or reaction to the incident until President Karzai of Afghanistan, our man in Kabul, made public remarks about the incident and issued a statement Thursday calling for Mr. Jones' arrest. The following day, during Friday prayers, Islamic leaders throughout the country picked up on the theme and called the faithful to action.
Excerpted from the story linked above:
“Karzai brought this issue back to life, and he has to take some responsibility for starting this up,” said a prominent Afghan businessman, who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of retribution if he was identified as a critic of the president.
“Karzai’s speech itself provoked people to take such actions,” said Qayum Baabak, a political analyst in Mazar-i-Sharif. “Karzai should have called on people to be patient rather than making people more angry.”
When it comes to allies in the Middle East and the GWOT, President Karzai is proving to be a real POS.
Business_Casual
04-02-11, 19:57
Everyone has been killed over something at some point. Hindu on Muslim violence is pretty common in India.
Is that perhaps because they see Muslims as a threat? Why do you think Pakistan exists?
B_C
Is that perhaps because they see Muslims as a threat? Why do you think Pakistan exists?
B_C
Yes, that explains the Hindu on Christian violence as well, which is almost more common. (google Orissa or Bharatiya Janata if you don't believe it)
You missed my point.
Business_Casual
04-02-11, 22:42
Yes, that explains the Hindu on Christian violence as well, which is almost more common. (google Orissa or Bharatiya Janata if you don't believe it)
You missed my point.
You didn't make a point, so feel to do so.
B_C
Yes, that explains the Hindu on Christian violence as well, which is almost more common. =.
When Hindus start trying to bomb me, I will start worrying about it. But as for now, muslims are the threat. Islam is at war with the US.
When Hindus start trying to bomb me, I will start worrying about it. But as for now, muslims are the threat. Islam is at war with the US.
Everyone has been killed over something at some point.
Which was what I originally said. I'd be more concerned about the Reconquista in CONUS.
These fanatical Muslim shitbags don't need a reason to kill anyone. They simply use any act to justify their behavior. I still find it laughable that people claim Islam is a tolerant religion.
Their is nothing tolerant about Islam, nor is the way of life tolerant of western lifestyles. I also find them highly hippocritical.
Is burning a book the moral equivalent of chopping somebody's head off? Of course not. But if you decide to burn a Koran knowing full well it's going to start a shit storm and people are likely to get seriously messed with, well, in my opinion you bear some level of complicity in whatever chain of events you initiated.
I have to agree with you here. Of course the ones who kill are the real problem, but something tells me that dumbass down south wouldn't have burned the book if his daughter was staffed someplace overseas in a muslim nation.
Anyone can light a fuse and claim "Well all I did was light the fuse, the bomb did all the damage". It was the equivalent of lighting a fuse that stretched overseas to a very real bomb. If you know someone, especially someone on your side, is likely to die as a result you don't do it period.
John_Wayne777
04-03-11, 10:19
Karzai threw us under the bus on that. He's not on our side.
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Picture the scene:
You are minding your own business, and for some reason this really angry guy walks up and is bound and determined to "kick your ass." You don't want to fight, and you just walk on, then he starts beating you about the head and shoulders. You still don't want to fight, but the fact of the matter is you are, in fact, in a fight even if you offer no resistance.
Soooo, even though there are many Muslims who want no part of this nonsense, and there are many Muslim apologists in the West, there is a significant cadre of Muslims who are, in fact, at war with the West. And even if a you don't believe it - they do!
I am not worried about that poor beleaguered gas station owner in NOVA just trying to get by. I am worried about his two militant cousins who hang out all day in Crystal City conducting surveillance.
I think it would be more accurate to say that illiterate/uneducated tribesmen/peasants get riled up over what a local mullah with delusions of grandeur (who is also probably illiterate) who wanted to make a name for himself.
Same kind of crap that our ancestors back in Europe would have done 500 years ago, or during the Salem witch trials....
Mix absolute faith and an uneducated person/group who trusts someone looking for power, and you get bad shit breaking, no matter if it's Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc.
There we go. My thoughts exactly.
Karzai threw us under the bus on that. He's not on our side.
Nope, just another institutionalized anti-American criminal. One who has been fully enabled by America, of course.
But I still assign blame for the UN fatalities to the publicity seeking "pastor". He could have just burned the friggin thing in private with his other dopes and been done with it.
Business_Casual
04-03-11, 20:37
Nope, just another institutionalized anti-American criminal. One who has been fully enabled by America, of course.
You just don't understand a "nuanced" foreign policy, my friend. Clearly, if you had attended Princeton or Brown and then done an MA at Yale or Georgetown in Govt. Studies, you'd know that we need to embrace Karzai and help him sell his dope - oh, wait, I mean product - to US and European kids.
B_C
John_Wayne777
04-03-11, 22:36
Foreign policy occasionally requires us to work with assholes.
...but when a guy who is in power because of our support spreads propaganda for the enemy knowingly inciting violence against the coalition of forces protecting his dumb ass so that he can score some brownie points with the Taliban...well, that's when the POTUS is supposed to pay that ****er a visit and settle his hash.
Of course, one could theorize that the statements coming from Washington DC lately haven't exactly filled people in the thick of it with confidence and perhaps that played into the calculation to throw us under the bus.
Sen. Hairy Reid wants to hold hearings and hold someone responsible.
How about if we hold the murderers responsible?
I am thinking about making my own youtube video of a Koran burning.
Also, as a side note, I am uncomfortable that Koran and Korean look so similar because I like Koreans.
Sen. Hairy Reid wants to hold hearings and hold someone responsible.
How about if we hold the murderers responsible?
I am thinking about making my own youtube video of a Koran burning.
Also, as a side note, I am uncomfortable that Koran and Korean look so similar because I like Koreans.
Start using Quran.
"Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of offending culture, religion or traditions... Those who entered our building were actually furiously angry about the issue about the Quran. There was nothing political there." ... "I don't think we should be blaming any Afghan. We should be blaming the person who produced the news - the one who burned the Koran." - Staffan de Mistura, top U.N. envoy to Afghanistan
"Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of offending culture, religion or traditions... Those who entered our building were actually furiously angry about the issue about the Quran. There was nothing political there." ... - Staffan de Mistura, top U.N. envoy to Afghanistan
Actually, yeah, it does.
Not if you're half swede, half guido, and all cheesedick.
Actually, yeah, it does.
That's some bad engrish.
The funny thing is he works for the UN. They attacked the UN... How the UN is responsible for something that someone in Florida does defies logic. The UN defending the people who killed people who worked for the UN defies logic.
"Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of offending culture, religion or traditions... Those who entered our building were actually furiously angry about the issue about the Quran. There was nothing political there." ... "I don't think we should be blaming any Afghan. We should be blaming the person who produced the news - the one who burned the Koran." - Staffan de Mistura, top U.N. envoy to Afghanistan
That's such liberal drivel it's scary. Political correctness is a false sheen we seem to put on everything anymore. The American flag seems to be burned on a regular basis and we do little more than get upset about it. A Quran is burned one time and 7 people who had nothing to do with it apparently have to die. If this isn't a clear-cut cultural difference, I don't know what is. Also, I'd be shocked if anyone tried to tell me it's not clear which culture is a superior in this instance.
Can we build more schools and ship over less weapons, now? Might help more with long-term stability in the region.
I am thinking about making my own youtube video of a Koran burning.
Lets engage the crazy ****s half way around the world and further endanger the people who are actually fighting and not just watching Fox News - the idea that you would treat the sacrifice of so many simply to do such juvenile BS is simply beyond comprehension.
They have enough shit to worry about with out people like you wanting to show the "world" how tough and fearless you are from a Christian majority country where you risk nothing in doing such bs. Make a trip down to Deerborn and video tape yourself burning stacks of korans, show us your tough side.
Yeah you have your first amendment as do I.
I am thinking about making my own youtube video of a Koran burning.
Despite your repeated banning, I still think your smart enough not to do something so incredibly selfish and useless.
John_Wayne777
04-04-11, 11:20
"I don't think we should be blaming any Afghan. We should be blaming the person who produced the news - the one who burned the Koran." - Staffan de Mistura, top U.N. envoy to Afghanistan
...and that's why the UN is a walking disaster. Blame a guy in Florida because a bunch of goat-****ing barbarian primitives got worked into a tizzy by mullahs fed by Karzai and killed people who had nothing to do with any of that nonsense just because they could.
That's a strategy for success, alright.
Cincinnatus
04-04-11, 11:55
Not all murderous Islamists are stuck in the stoneage. Weren't the 911 highjackers well-educated, heavily financed, and tech-savvy? Does not Bin-Laden and other terrorist leaders use internet etc? Don't these scum use cell-phones to set off IEDs? Yes, many of the extremists ARE stuck in the stonage, but that is not WHY their religion is such a catalyst of violence--at some point, one must examine the religion itself.
John_Wayne777
04-04-11, 12:04
What really infuriates me about this whole mess is the fact that the doofus who burned the book is getting all the heat in the press. Why? Karzai deliberately incited this Arafat-esque infantada. Why the hell aren't US political leaders calling him on the carpet? Why isn't the UN demanding answers from him as to why he would pull such a stunt? Why aren't the foreign policy geniuses trying to figure out the Machiavellian strategy behind his actions?
A doofus in Florida didn't do this...that's the Sesame Street explanation meant to pacify the stupid and the lazy.
This was a deliberate political move by Karzai. That's what the coverage should be focused on.
Lets engage the crazy ****s half way around the world and further endanger the people who are actually fighting and not just watching Fox News - the idea that you would treat the sacrifice of so many simply to do such juvenile BS is simply beyond comprehension.
They have enough shit to worry about with out people like you wanting to show the "world" how tough and fearless you are from a Christian majority country where you risk nothing in doing such bs. Make a trip down to Deerborn and video tape yourself burning stacks of korans, show us your tough side.
Yeah you have your first amendment as do I.
Insane people will kill our troops REGARDLESS of what we do or do not do here.
One school of thought would be the bring them out of the woodwork out into the open to be shot, except of course we aren't trying to actually accomplish anything productive over there. It's little more than a "let's try and rescue the Muslims from their own crazy culture" effort.
So I'm of the opinion that we should simply bring our guys home and then burn the ****ing Quran. When compared to the actions of Muslims, the idea that we are creating problems by burning a book is offensive. It's just a shame we can't invite the Russians back with an apology.
Not all murderous Islamists are stuck in the stoneage. Weren't the 911 highjackers well-educated, heavily financed, and tech-savvy? Does not Bin-Laden and other terrorist leaders use internet etc? Don't these scum use cell-phones to set off IEDs? Yes, many of the extremists ARE stuck in the stonage, but that is not WHY their religion is such a catalyst of violence--at some point, one must examine the religion itself.
Stone age religious beliefs, modern technology. I don't think anyone was suggesting they were like the Amish. And yes, it is the religion itself and the culture built around it.
A doofus in Florida didn't do this...that's the Sesame Street explanation meant to pacify the stupid and the lazy.
Absolutely! Blame some nitwit for the actions of thousands of religious zealots who are rioting, killing and injuring one another.
Something as small as burning a book pushes them over the edge and starts riots and mayhem yet they beat their women with pipes, kill them for being raped and like butt****ing little boys at Bacha Bazi festivals.
Petraeus says Quran burning endangers war effort. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703806304576240643831942006.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond)
A doofus in Florida didn't do this...that's the Sesame Street explanation meant to pacify the stupid and the lazy.
This was a deliberate political move by Karzai. That's what the coverage should be focused on.
Their should be much more focus on Karzai, no doubt about it. And the animals rioting in the streets should be napalmed thrice over.
But some of you guys are taking a two dimensional approach to this. The burning was an obvious and predicted catalyst to innocent deaths. Surely we are smart enough here to fully understand what a catalyst is an it's role in such an incident.
But some of you guys are taking a two dimensional approach to this. The burning was an obvious and predicted catalyst to innocent deaths. Surely we are smart enough here to fully understand what a catalyst is an it's role in such an incident.
So they can't control their own actions? Thousands of hadjis on the other side of the world are controlled by 1 white guy's actions in Florida? With all due respect I call bullshit and if those ragheads can't control themselves and act like animals over such trivial bullshit thousands of miles away then I say the more taken out of the gene pool the better.
dookie1481
04-04-11, 14:27
When it comes to allies in the Middle East and the GWOT, President Karzai is proving to be a real POS.
The "qualities" that make a politician certainly seem to transcend racial, cultural, and geographical boundaries.
So they can't control their own actions? Thousands of hadjis on the other side of the world are controlled by 1 white guy's actions in Florida? With all due respect I call bullshit and if those ragheads can't control themselves and act like animals over such trivial bullshit thousands of miles away then I say the more taken out of the gene pool the better.
Who said they they're getting a pass for being such animals? Maybe the US government did, but I sure as hell didn't. And I don't care if they all kill each other over nothing either, not at all in fact. You quoted me but don't seem to have read most of what I wrote.
What I do care about are the western/Christian people who have died and will die along with our troops who have to deal with those savages. Like another member here stated, stop being simple and looking at it from the perspective of someone sitting at home watching the news and start doing so from the perspective from someone like us stuck over there.
Who said they they're getting a pass for being such animals? Maybe the US government did, but I sure as hell didn't. And I don't care if they all kill each other over nothing either, not at all in fact. You quoted me but don't seem to have read most of what I wrote.
I just reread what you wrote and came away with the same conclusion. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you wrote.
I just reread what you wrote and came away with the same conclusion. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you wrote.
No problem. Maybe look at it this way...
Consider a hornet's nest is located in a large tree nearby. Also consider that there are people camping around the hornet's nest, warily aware that it's there but doing their best not to upset it for obvious reasons. Lastly, consider that these same hornets are disturbed by someone flashing large yellow cards (for whatever reason, doesn't have to make sense to us).
So one day you decide that you don't like the hornets and feel like it should be your right to flash large yellow cards wherever you please. You then wander close enough for them to see your cards, but far enough away where you can quickly escape.
Seems like it will be great fun, but what about those minding their own business while just camping around the tree? Should they suffer so you can express your frustration with the hornets?
What I do care about are the western/Christian people
western =/= christian
western =/= christian
Yes, this would normally be the case. Though I had no idea until you mentioned it just now.
So they can't control their own actions? Thousands of hadjis on the other side of the world are controlled by 1 white guy's actions in Florida? With all due respect I call bullshit and if those ragheads can't control themselves and act like animals over such trivial bullshit thousands of miles away then I say the more taken out of the gene pool the better.
If I go down to Watts and run around calling everyone a ethnic slur should I be held accountable when I end up dead?
Am I not some what to blame for my asshatery? It's my right to call people what ever I want as long as I'm not threatening their well being. But am I not also some what liable for the shit that comes out of my mouth and the repercussions? The world isn't rubber and words & actions don't just bounce off.
If I went in front of a local church and torched a pile of Bibles I can assure you I would get my ass kicked, and I'm pretty damn sure most on this forum would cheer my assailants.
I don't blame the pastor for the murders, I blame him for being a dip shit with zero respect for those who's lives he's putting in danger for a publicity stunt to stroke his ego.
threeheadeddog
04-04-11, 19:22
This IMHO is very much the same as the point that if you dont excercise your rights you will lose them.
If you dont push back you will only loose ground. To simply sit back and allow such poeple to threaten our way of life and do or do not based on their reaction is a passive acceptance of the philosophy they posess.
So actually while I dont support any one person for pulling a stunt(which I have been led to believe it is though I am open to hearing more) I do support people for not rolling over for anyone. I would also support a "burn you book of choice" national holidy even though I am a Christian(but please dont burn any actual antiques:().
montanadave
04-04-11, 19:25
I don't blame the pastor for the murders, I blame him for being a dip shit with zero respect for those who's lives he's putting in danger for a publicity stunt to stroke his ego.
I'm less inclined to let Jones off the hook. There's legal complicity and moral complicity. Should Jones go to jail? Not in this country. But folks that spark a flame (like Jones) and folks that pour gasoline on that flame (like Karzai and the Aghani imams) then throw up their hands feigning shock when the whole shit house goes up in smoke are some serious low-life pieces of shit.
That they do it for their own political and financial gain with malice aforethought, rather than deeply held conviction, and are unwilling to bear the consequences of their actions makes them even worse.
And contrary to what some have implied, I am not engaging in any moral relativism or double standard here. The criminals and zealots that murdered the victims are just that-- murderers and barbarians. They have no place in a civil society. Unfortunately, Afghanistan isn't a civil society.
This IMHO is very much the same as the point that if you dont excercise your rights you will lose them.
If you dont push back you will only loose ground. To simply sit back and allow such poeple to threaten our way of life and do or do not based on their reaction is a passive acceptance of the philosophy they posess.
While I am 100% behind you in principal, how do you somehow perceive that our way of life was being threatened in any way whatsoever? Was the pastor not allowed to burn the book? Was he locked up for his selfish idiocy?
They burned Obama in effigy so we should carpet bomb them.
These ****ing backasswards savages kill people over cartoons. They look for any excuse in the world to flip out and go batshit crazy against the west or Americans. Here's a prime example.
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/1808/mohammedcartoonbomb.jpg
threeheadeddog
04-04-11, 19:45
While I am 100% behind you in principal, how do you somehow perceive that our way of life was being threatened in any way whatsoever? Was the pastor not allowed to burn the book? Was he locked up for his selfish idiocy?
The fact that people are comdemming free speach action is a threat to our way of life.
Maby I didnt do a good job of connecting my dots(I swear it made sense in my head), but my point was that the wearyness to express free speach is just an extension of the suppression of free speach. If we choose to not excercise our rights than in time those rights will fade away.
They burned Obama in effigy so we should carpet bomb them.
Bro frig the obama effigy, we should carpet bomb them anyway. As someone who always places children first, I see no other way to preserve the future of our own. The wave of islam-based insanity seems to grow by the day, now even in the form of democracy.
But I still personally believe the pastor does indeed have blood on his hands and very deservedly so.
Read this article. (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-afghan-koran-riots-20110404,0,6274233.story)
The insurgents, according to Afghan and Western officials, have been able to exploit the ongoing tumult, using the riots as cover for attacks against Western and government targets and reaping propaganda benefits by allying themselves with popular fury over the desecration of the Muslim holy book...
Both Afghan and Western officials cited mounting evidence that insurgents had seized the opportunity to infiltrate crowds of demonstrators in both Kandahar and Mazar-i-Sharif, concealing themselves among those who otherwise might have marched relatively peacefully.
De Mistura said the three Europeans who died in the Mazar-i-Sharif compound were not victims of random mob violence but were hunted down in the bunker where they had taken refuge. Afghan officials, who have made dozens of arrests in connection with the assault, said evidence so far suggested that the main instigators were allied with the insurgency.
Bro frig the obama effigy, we should carpet bomb them anyway.
I agree. I was using it in the same light as the previous post.
"Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of offending culture, religion or traditions... Those who entered our building were actually furiously angry about the issue about the Quran. There was nothing political there." ... "I don't think we should be blaming any Afghan. We should be blaming the person who produced the news - the one who burned the Koran." - Staffan de Mistura, top U.N. envoy to Afghanistan
Unless you're a Christian, then it's ok.
Speaking of which I saw that movie Paul this weekend, the one about the alien. Shitty movie, all the funny parts are in the previews and typical liberal hollywood crap trashing Christians as closed minded, bible thumping, gun toting, rusty pickup drivin, rednecks. Most of that's true but the parts about being completely closed minded against science is complete nonsense.
I'm amazed at the number of so-called "conservatives" in this thread that think the pastor holds some ethical or moral responsibility, even moreso at those that think he should be held accountable in some manner...
It's FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Screw consequences, screw morality, screw ethics - the Constitution lays it out in black and white. Either you agree with the Constitution or you don't. There is no middle ground, there are no "common sense limits."
It's that pastor's right to say and do what he wants. That's the cost of liberty and it's one of the many reasons why freedom "isn't free."
It's FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Screw consequences, screw morality, screw ethics - the Constitution lays it out in black and white. Either you agree with the Constitution or you don't. There is no middle ground, there are no "common sense limits."
Yes, screw morality. Where does one begin to disect...
My friend, everything above aside, aren't you the one who recently chastised a potential mild stroke victim while proclaiming your educational background on the very same subject? One in which it eventually turned out you knew nothing about on a personal nor actual basis?
But it was still good for a laugh, wasn't it?
montanadave
04-04-11, 20:10
It's FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Screw consequences, screw morality, screw ethics - the Constitution lays it out in black and white. Either you agree with the Constitution or you don't. There is no middle ground, there are no "common sense limits."
That's the very same absolutist attitude espoused by the religious fundamentalists we are fighting and its insane.
But I'll agree with your post on one point-- there's no common sense.
It's FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Screw consequences, screw morality, screw ethics - the Constitution lays it out in black and white. Either you agree with the Constitution or you don't. There is no middle ground, there are no "common sense limits."
It's that pastor's right to say and do what he wants. That's the cost of liberty and it's one of the many reasons why freedom "isn't free."
His freedom is free, he's not the one currently overseas fighting a war risking his own life for his "right" to burn a book. With your rights you should use judgement or you lose them just as fast as if you don't use them at all.
Screw it, I'm going to burn some bibles tonight, I have a good number laying around the house, so I can piss off every branch of Christianity even have a book of Mormon :) I'm also going to piss on em to extinguish the fire and upload it to youtube - hell I'll upload it to some porn site for a double whammy. It's my right to do so with out any consequence what so ever, don't infringe on me god damn it.
I'm amazed at the number of so-called "conservatives" in this thread that think the pastor holds some ethical or moral responsibility, even moreso at those that think he should be held accountable in some manner...
Exactly, if the pastor were burning a US flag he'd be a civil rights hero as far as the MSM is concerned. If he were burning a Bible, he'd be a free speech activist who liberals would flock to with their support.
He burns a Koran and it's almost like they want to blame him for starting a war in Afghanistan and creating Islamic terrorism as if it was something that suddenly just started happening.
Of course this all comes down to a desire the believe we aren't at war with Islam, just at war with terrorism. Most Americans are oblivious that Islam is at war with us.
His freedom is free, he's not the one currently overseas fighting a war risking his own life for his "right" to burn a book. With your rights you should use judgement or you lose them just as fast as if you don't use them at all.
And there's the typical emotional, illogical liberal argument. You want to limit his speech because it's not popular, while ignoring that thousands of US flags are burned every year, Bibles are trampled and tossed in the garbage, and Hindus are mocked constantly on South Park. A typical hypocritical double standard.
You want to control UNPOPULAR speech. Guess what? You, and people like you, are the VERY reason the First Amendment was penned. The First Amendment was never about popular speech because popular speech doesn't need protecting.
With all due respect to our soldiers, that's their choice to fight. if they die, then did so knowing full well their job might require their life. Those soldiers pledged an oath to protect our country and the Constitution, so quit trying to act like they're the one's that need protecting. It's a slap in the fact to every man and woman that has served this country.
If people are dying because some stupid towelheads riot, then try using your head and go after those responsible for not letting them fight back: military leadership and Congress.
And there's the typical emotional, illogical liberal argument. You want to limit his speech because it's not popular, while ignoring that thousands of US flags are burned every year, Bibles are trampled and tossed in the garbage, and Hindus are mocked constantly on South Park. A typical hypocritical double standard..
When did I say I wanted to limit his speech? That's the typical dumb ass making up shit to fit their argument.
Want to talk shit I can do it to, but I don't need to read in to it further than what you wrote, I never said he shouldn't be allowed to do it, I said people should have some "common" ****ing sense.
But **** it you love calling people liberals as a put down - as you've done so many times in the past, continue on.
And as far as soldiers dying for our rights, not every soldier has given their life freely, very few have. The vast majority who have died did so while drafted. So let's not go around spouting bs about a voluntary military simply because today it happens to be so. And even the ones who have made the ultimate sacrifice voluntarily deserve to be safe guarded by us when possible, why the **** do we need to make their lives harder than they are. I seem to recall how pissed people where about anti war protestors and how we need to support our troops no matter our feelings about the wars, talk about some hypocritical bs.
Exactly, if the pastor were burning a US flag he'd be a civil rights hero as far as the MSM is concerned. If he were burning a Bible, he'd be a free speech activist who liberals would flock to with their support.
Couldn't have said it better.
Exactly, if the pastor were burning a US flag he'd be a civil rights hero as far as the MSM is concerned. If he were burning a Bible, he'd be a free speech activist who liberals would flock to with their support.
You're a smart guy and most of the time I would agree with you. But in this case I think you are over-simplifying. As someone who has little respect for most of the MSM, it isn't 1969 and no relevant media group wants to emulate or enable an American flag burner in America anymore.
When did I say I wanted to limit his speech? That's the typical dumb ass making up shit to fit their argument.
Either you want to take his speech, or you don't believe in what you wrote here (which would mean you're posting simply for the sake of posting and don't believe a word of your own argument):
With your rights you should use judgement or you lose them just as fast as if you don't use them at all.
No, he does not have to exercise judgment nor does he have to risk losing his right because you or anyone else dislikes it.
I said people should have some "common" ****ing sense.
Really, bright guy? And just what is "common sense"? Oh, you mean "popular speech" that the general public deems acceptable. In other words, he can burn a Bible or an American flag and its ok, but if people start killing others because he burns a Quran, it's not ok. That's mob rule, genius, and is specifically why the First Amendment exists. It's to allow him to say whatever the heck he wants regardless of how many people get pissed off and/or kill each other over it.
But **** it you love calling people liberals as a put down - as you've done so many times in the past, continue on.
If you re-read, you'll find I didn't call you a liberal whatsoever. Rather, I called your argument a "typical emotional, illogical liberal argument," but no where did I call YOU a liberal. Then again, that's typical of liberals (now I just called you one), as they don't actually read what's written and go on diatribes based on an out-of-context word.
And as far as soldiers dying for our rights, not every soldier has given their life freely, very few have. The vast majority who have died did so while drafted.
Where did I say "every" soldier? Oh, wait, I didn't. But let's check the facts, shall we? The draft is done and over with, meaning every one of our soldiers that you are referring to (the ones affected by that oh-so horrific Quran burning) are there by choice; therefore, you don't have a point, do you?
So let's not go around spouting bs about a voluntary military simply because today it happens to be so.
And what in the heck does yesterday's military have to do with TODAY'S Quran burning? It doesn't, genius. The ones in harm's way have CHOSEN to be there. If they die because Joe Schmo burns a Quran, it's because they chose to be where they were at. You have no point.
And even the ones who have made the ultimate sacrifice voluntarily deserve to be safe guarded by us when possible, why the **** do we need to make their lives harder than they are.
No, they do NOT need to be protected "by us." The Constitution already protects them. The problem is liberalized morons who care more for other countries and their inbred citizens try to mangle our Constitution by limiting things such as the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (in the name of illegal arms trafficking), the Freedom of Speech (in the name of international peace), Right Against Improper Search and Seizure (in the name of national security) and so on. We (the liberals) diagnose them with PTSD and then pass laws that state people with PTSD can be declared mentally unfit for certain rights and privileges. Our soldiers are losing their rights because of anti-American, Unconstitutional legislation. The liberals scream they our soldiers "need to be protected" and then try to take away more rights in the same breath. THAT is what's wrong with our country.
I seem to recall how pissed people where about anti war protestors and how we need to support our troops no matter our feelings about the wars, talk about some hypocritical bs.
Nice try, but no: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=75337
Most of this board recognizes the WBC (and others like them) have a God-given right to say what they want, regardless of how much we hate them. I may not like the WBC, but I'll sure as heck defend their right to the end if it came to it.
You were saying?
Read this article. (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-afghan-koran-riots-20110404,0,6274233.story)
The insurgents, according to Afghan and Western officials, have been able to exploit the ongoing tumult, using the riots as cover for attacks against Western and government targets and reaping propaganda benefits by allying themselves with popular fury over the desecration of the Muslim holy book...
Both Afghan and Western officials cited mounting evidence that insurgents had seized the opportunity to infiltrate crowds of demonstrators in both Kandahar and Mazar-i-Sharif, concealing themselves among those who otherwise might have marched relatively peacefully.
De Mistura said the three Europeans who died in the Mazar-i-Sharif compound were not victims of random mob violence but were hunted down in the bunker where they had taken refuge. Afghan officials, who have made dozens of arrests in connection with the assault, said evidence so far suggested that the main instigators were allied with the insurgency.
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