View Full Version : I Want The Moderation Turned Up In The Tech Forums Big Time
Over the past year, a significant increase in threads asking about cheap optics, junk guns, junk accessories, and other mind numbing topics have flooded the tech forums.
These threads have been allowed to continue for too long before being locked. I suggested locking these threads immediately and giving the posters a temporary or permanent lock depending on the severity of the thread.
This is killing the credibility of this website when I see a bunch of people with 10s, 20s, 30s, etc post counts flooding the site with trash.
Example:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=77964
While I agree there's been a troubling increase in these types of threads from what I can see they're being handled appropriately.
Please, let's not turn this into some kind of Talibanesque "I'm more orthodox than you, so take off" forum.
I think rather than punishing people, it is far more useful to correct them and bring them up to speed. And it looks like Templar is on it.
Not everyone knows everything on day one. I learned what I know because a lot of people were willing to help me understand.
Not everyone knows everything on day one. I learned what I know because a lot of people were willing to help me understand.
While I'm a bit frustrated at times, thank you for saying this Steyr. I think that people are loosing sight of this reality a bit lately, and there have been some short tempers as a result. I learned 75% of what I know about the mechanics of the M4 and accessories from this forum. But it was because people were patient and willing to explain things to me.
We were all noobs once.;)
While I agree that people will learn, we also have what I call "chronic" posters such as a few people in every SIG556 thread.
While I agree that people will learn, we also have what I call "chronic" posters such as a few people in every SIG556 thread.
Well there is a bit of a difference between a new guy who just doesn't know yet and the same guy over and over insisting that "his SKS" can shoot 1" groups at 100 yards even after he has been corrected more than a few times.
There is no reason to take out our frustrations on the new guys who are coming here looking for information. We really don't need the mob mentality that exists on other forums.
We are far better served helping people get good information so that they may become an informed shooter rather than telling them to **** off.
I can recall the guys at the gun shows back in 1979 taking the time to show me the difference between the Springfield 1903, 03 Mark I and 03A3 when I was looking to buy one for myself. I was 12 years old. Would have been really easy to just ignore the kid who for all they knew probably wasn't going to buy anything in the first place.
But instead they pulled guns out of cases, put them side by side and showed me how to tell the difference. They did this simply because I was a 12 year old kid who was interested in collecting WWI/II firearms. Their efforts contributed to me becoming the collector I am today. It is also why I'm willing to answer the questions kids at the range always have about my guns when they see them.
Case in point is the thread you posted in the OP. It would seem the guy "gets it" and actually does appreciate the help. Now he knows, if he asked on arfcom he'd have no shortage of broke dicks telling him how it is a "good sight for the money."
I would like to see a TOSser Forum that all non-M4C worthy threads just get TOSsed into so that people understand that they posted an unworthy post, but get professional help anyway.
SWATcop556
04-03-11, 03:53
Since a moderator was the first to answer the thread and chose not to lock or trash it then I would take it up with that mod and ask why.
We are experiencing an influx of new shooters to the forum and that's actually what we want otherwise it's the same five "senior members" talking about the same stuff or there is no traffic at all.
We are not all born "enlightened" about the platform and everything else that goes with it. The OP in the given thread initially posts about a cheap optic but after the thread continues he seems to be getting it. If you want to be really blunt the only unproductive post I read was yours.
There is a huge difference in someone asking an uneducated question then after receiving good feedback and information they see the light versus someone who asks a dumbass question and after receiving good feedback and information says something along the lines of "**** off my hi point is just as good as your Glock." See the difference?
Instead of demanding something be done in a public post in GD try using the report post feature. It works. I've been checking mine all day. If it warrants attention it will be handled. If not it's left to run it's course until it needs attention. This approach is more behind the scenes and doesn't come across as someone being an elitest.
Food for thought.
if i may quote myself...
what we need is to NOT facilitate retardedness, but to shut it down immediately.
my suggestion, as a non-staff member and nothing more than a guest, but hopefully valuable member, on this, my beloved site, is to institute a zero-tolerance policy for retarded, incredibly redundant threads like this one. moderator posts a brief, professional post explaining why the OP is an idiot and why the thread is being locked, and then immediately locks it, in the hopes that the stupidity will not spread contamination and infect other members, and in the hopes the moron will then seek the billions of pertinent, professional threads that already exist to preclude said thread from conception.
this puts the load squarely on the moderators/staff... but more than having to issue infractions, cleanup/delete posts, THEN lock the thread? no.. it'll be a time saver. and it'll help steer new/idiot members toward the path of enlightenment, rather than alienate them with the classic M4C dogpile.
this board has traveled far from it's beginnings. the people-who-know-something to people-who-know-shit ratio has gone WAY down. but that's to be expected. absolutely. we've got 45,000-some-odd members now, and they cant all be experts. severing the stupidity seems to me a better option than letting the poster get hammered in open thread.
just my opinion, of course.
---
ETA.... and you CAN sometimes "fix stupid"- just have to show it good threads.
I can assure you that we as moderators get very frustrated with the stupid shit that gets posted here as well. I also agree that there are some people who will not listen to any reason and we try to banish them as soon as we can.
But, we have to walk a line. If we nuke every tard who claims that his Hi-point will blow away a Glock or that his Bubba Jones AR will outshoot a Colt then we eventually will not have any new members because people will get scared off.
I encourage our members to report dumbshit as you see fit and try and point people to the water hole. It doesn't mean you have to suck their ass to make them drink, but just let them know where it is.
ThirdWatcher
04-03-11, 05:17
We were all noobs once.;)
True, but it seems like a lot of noobs don't take the time to make friends with the Search function... it's actually worse on some other forums. (How many times will "Which is better, a Full Length Guide Rod or a GI setup?" be debated anyway?:confused:)
maybe we should have a noob area... on one of my climbing forums, there's a whole sub-forum devoted solely to noobs... i think it's just called "newbies." there is a series of stickies devoted to the common stupid-noob questions on getting started, gear selection, styles, terminology, etc.. noobs can ask stupid noob questions and senior members are expected to give it straight, but not be total asses. they are, afterall, a bunch of damn noobs. sort of a safe area. perhaps assign the more patient moderators to it, in the hopes that new members won't be scared away entirely.
just a thought.
variablebinary
04-03-11, 07:10
There is nothing wrong with asking a rookie question.
The problem is when a rookie question is asked, answer is given by someone with more experience, and rookie chooses to ignore the answer or argue with the person with more experience because they don't like the answer.
There are phases that typical gun owner should experience after being a member of M4C for awhile.
*Don't know shit.
*Slightly less retarded.
*Starts to get a clue, goes away, or gets banned.
*Trolls less and comes across as less stupid because they are tired of infractions, and being told to STFU by mods, and forum regulars.
*Starts to get it and actually starts to shoot more.
*Gets it, understands it, and has more experience to speak on it because they've actually been shooting instead of playing Modern Warfare on Xbox.
*Conforms to M4C culture not because they want to be accepted, but because they know its right in a world of DPMS owners and gun show experts
Suwannee Tim
04-03-11, 07:23
While I agree that people will learn, we also have what I call "chronic" posters such as a few people in every SIG556 thread.
Every SIG related post immediately develops into a bash SIG vomitorium. The same old SIG haters spewing the same old bile. I hate Ruger as much as these guys hate SIG except that I have actual reasons to hate Ruger. They did me wrong, several times. Nevertheless, I don't get into every Ruger related thread and junk it up with my hostile feelings. It would sure be nice is these folks would give it a rest. Maybe the rest of us could engage in an actual discussion for a change.
Except for my army service back in the 60's, I joined this forum as an AR noob in January 2008. I read the stickies, especially the Knowledge Base threads and asked questions. I believe my first post was a why is X worth paying more for than Y, a typical FNG post. I received very good answers and after a brief foray with another brand I quickly bought Noveske N4.
Several posts in this thread point out that there are noobs that actually want to learn, and then there are noobs that want to argue with members that have way more experience than they do. The former group is good and will come along with the right mentoring, but the later group needs to get shut down quickly. It all comes down to attitude and a judgement call by the mods. God bless the mods, for theirs is a tough job.
Littlelebowski
04-03-11, 09:02
Just playing devil's advocate here, but I wouldn't have made such a demand (though I agree to some extent) without becoming a contributing member.
Why is a member with no ownership interest in the forum making demands?
We are experiencing an influx of new shooters to the forum and that's actually what we want otherwise it's the same five "senior members" talking about the same stuff or there is no traffic at all.
Couldn't agree more. When a forum reeks of elitism, if nothing else it becomes uninteresting.
I would like to see a TOSser Forum that all non-M4C worthy threads just get TOSsed into so that people understand that they posted an unworthy post, but get professional help anyway.
That sounds like a good idea. I like that.
variablebinary
04-03-11, 09:16
Several posts in this thread point out that there are noobs that actually want to learn, and then there are noobs that want to argue with members that have way more experience than they do. The former group is good and will come along with the right mentoring, but the later group needs to get shut down quickly.
Perfect example of a turd that was dealt with: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=77724
The great thing about turds is they absolutely cannot help themselves no matter how hard they they try or how often they are warned they just need to flap their sucks till they are shown the door.
Littlelebowski
04-03-11, 09:16
The Report Post button works well for me. I've never been penalized for reporting stupidity. It's more work than you think to moderate and look for stupid people. Give the mods a heads up.
Not sure why this couldn't have been added to one of the ongoing threads on the subject...
The forum exists to generate money: for the owner, the corporate site sponsors (industry partners), and for the vendors. Membership is perceived as the way to increase revenue, so you're unlikely to get far with demanding a decrease in membership. Additionally, as mentioned, I can say that I don't want to sit around talking to the same five guys about the same ten things. We need new blood, if nothing else so that the guys that were newbs last week but are experts this week have someone to show how smart they are. ;)
I am finding the "report post" button works well especially with the addition of some recent mods that are very level-headed as well as the return of some old hands. I have also gone on record that the smacking by rank-n-file members goes a long way too.
As discussed above, you do not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The thread linked to here seems to be a case of a guy that didn't know better but also appears to be on the right track to figuring it out. Encouraging people to "go shoot the gun" and "seek quality training" tends to weed out a lot of the problems as those that think they are above it meltdown and get nuked and those that are open to learning listen to what the membership here has to say and start to get their head (and therefore their posts) right. IMHO the linked thread appears to be the latter, as of this writing anyway.
Army Chief
04-03-11, 09:29
Understand (and share) these concerns, but let's keep in mind that our senior members are the first line of defense for the forum, and while the "Report Post" button is a very effective tool in combating stupidity, there is also something to be said for taking the extra time to help newer members find their way. The shaping role to be played here is far more important than we've generally acknowledged to this point in the discussion.
If Mods and Staff are the schoolmasters and policemen of the site, our more experienced members get to be the wise and patient grandfathers, unless they choose to abdicate that role, presumably because they are tired of dealing with newcomers. Ideally, new members should be able to glean a lot about the site culture simply by watching our senior members. When that fails, we all share in our responsibility to engage and offer correction, but the approach and motivation matter when we're responding to sub-par posts. There is a big difference between saying "hey, I'm not sure you're seeing the forest for the trees here -- let me help point you in the right direction ..." and responding with "this is the stupidest question I've seen posted here in x-number of years. Do a search."
Granted, some will respond to correction, and some will need to be escorted to the door, but we don't want to miss opportunities to grow promising new members simply because we've grown weary of providing useful feedback. When you feel the urge to blow someone's face off -- which happens to the site cadre on a daily basis -- you have to pause for a moment and consider where they are coming from. I'm not talking about where they are coming from in life, so much as where they likely picked up a lot of their posting habits (i.e. elsewhere online).
The fact that M4C strives to be so different ought to tell you right there that a certain amount of re-norming is going to be required for everyone that registers for an account here. We can either help them to figure things out and provide gentle course correction, or we can respond with irritation, criticism and intolerance. Some guys are always going to rate the latter, but not at the expense of those who show up genuinely seeking to learn ... and lest we forget, the first step on that journey is coming to realize what you don't know.
I suspect we all feel much the same way about this, but before we allow our collective angst to result in short-tempered participation and exasperation, a bit of renewed "let me show you the ropes" would probably go a long way. And, yes ... when it doesn't, we have plenty of new rope on hand, ready for fashioning into the requisite 13 coils.
United We Stand ...
AC
Growing pains...
M4C is growing (a good thing) because it has a good reputation. There are a lot of pro's here and folks with solid first hand experience. 'We' are going to attract a lot of new shooters. There is nothing wrong with this. It is better to bring a guy up than to beat him down for asking a 'dumb' question.
The amount of attention and questions I get in regards to this platform and a few other weapons and tactics is starting to get difficult to keep up with. Because of this I refer A LOT of people to this site. I do tend to set down some rules of engagement and try to educate the newcomers on etiquette before posting here however. There are many knowledgeable people with a ton of great information here so I tend to refer.
I also agree with Rob, that these sites are not just here for our own personal amusement / interaction, but they are also a business and / or related to a business. I feel that referrals are a way to support that.
militarymoron
04-03-11, 14:11
i looked at that thread and didn't see anything that the OP said that needed moderation, so i didn't do anything about it.
there's a difference between a newbie who's willing to learn and someone who isn't, and i definitely like to see M4C as welcome place for those who want to learn. anyone can help mentor new folks. to me, 'moderation' is needed when there's a conflict between members. there wasn't any conflict to moderate in that thread. sometimes it's the attitude and remarks that the more senior members make a thread stray and turn ugly. what sometimes needs moderation more than new questions are dog piles and posts from members that add nothing to the thread, or belittle newcomers for just being ignorant (not stupid).
sure, we see a lot of the same questions asked over and over, as new people come in, but that's always going to happen. sometimes i can't find what i want with the 'search' function either, and i've been here a while. think of the more experienced people who mentored you when you were new to the shooting sports or the AR platform. this is your chance to return the favour.
Cagemonkey
04-03-11, 14:23
The Report Post button works well for me. I've never been penalized for reporting stupidity. It's more work than you think to moderate and look for stupid people. Give the mods a heads up.Am I missing something? I can't find a Report Post button anywhere. Pardon my ignorance, I'm not too computer savvy.
Belmont31R
04-03-11, 14:25
Am I missing something? I can't find a Report Post button anywhere. Pardon my ignorance, I'm not too computer savvy.
Look at the top right of each post next to the post number. Theres a little icon for reporting posts.
The Report Post button works well for me. I've never been penalized for reporting stupidity. It's more work than you think to moderate and look for stupid people. Give the mods a heads up.
I have used this !with a New member attacking Senior members and SME. within Minutes Iraqgunz was on the Scene with good advice.and then after the Perp didn't take said advice and the OP smarted off
Swatcop1911 Shut it Down!
The Mods can't be in all threads, So It is Up to Us to help the Mods Police the Area.
The Mods here Do a Great Job in Cutting the BS
I understand the sentiments of the OP. Some of the newer posters take patience and tact. However, the OP has contributed to many discussions and is quite knowledgeable in several areas. Anyone that has been here for a while knows he is good to have around. This is where the issue really lies. We need quality members. How do we balance keeping them happy against the needs of the new?
Cagemonkey
04-03-11, 14:32
Look at the top right of each post next to the post number. Theres a little icon for reporting posts.
Thanks, I would never have found that in a millennia.
Not to totally agree with the OP's comments, but there is a certain amount of frustration that goes on these days with noobs.
When I got into AR's, I was so ignorant that I couldn't find my ass with a flashlight and a mirror! So I read. Then I read some more. Then after ONE YEAR of reading, I bought an AR. Then I shot it. Then shot it some more. Then I posted on a forum.
Gone are these days. Now, you go onto the most technical gun forum on the net (without actually owning a firearm) and tell SME, IP's, etc that they can't find their ass with a flashlight and a mirror. This gets real old real fast.
What's the reason for this? Don't know. For whatever reason, everyone seems to believe that their opinion is of value AND that they believe everyone else is interested in what they think. This is not true.
Senior members, you have a role to play. That role is as a mentor. Of course not everyone can be helped, but if you believe that you can provide them with some good info, please share it in a kind way.
C4
Not to totally agree with the OP's comments, but there is a certain amount of frustration that goes on these days with noobs.
When I got into AR's, I was so ignorant that I couldn't find my ass with a flashlight and a mirror! So I read. Then I read some more. Then after ONE YEAR of reading, I bought an AR. Then I shot it. Then shot it some more. Then I posted on a forum.
Gone are these days. Now, you go onto the most technical gun forum on the net (without actually owning a firearm) and tell SME, IP's, etc that they can't find their ass with a flashlight and a mirror. This gets real old real fast.
What's the reason for this? Don't know. For whatever reason, everyone seems to believe that their opinion is of value AND that they believe everyone else is interested in what they think. This is not true.
Senior members, you have a role to play. That role is as a mentor. Of course not everyone can be helped, but if you believe that you can provide them with some good info, please share it in a kind way.
C4
Well said Grant
Here's a much better "exhibit A"
(http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=78102)
and "exhibit B (http://www.airsoftcanada.com/member.php?u=49329)", for clarification.
Preferred User
04-03-11, 16:50
Unfortunately it is not just this forum that seems to be afflicted with argumentative noobs.
I moderate on a forensic forum and there seems to be an endless stream of students that come seeking help with homework that they pretend are real cases. Then they want to argue when they get called out. Or there are the new examiners that start posting with help, but it becomes apparent rather quickly that they are in over their heads.
At this point I am attributing it to the anonymity of the Internet and an impatient need to find answers with as little effort as possible. I just hope it is not kids growing up with a complete lack of respect for more experienced (not necessarily older) members.
I think we see what Grant is talking about in all walks of life right now. I hate to say that it is a result of the internet, but it is the result of the internet. For example I have students that when I come into class in the morning after the weekend have completely ****ed their work up, when I ask why they didn't follow my directions: "Because I looked up another way to do it quicker online, and I don't have a lot of time for this project." You also have people that think because they understand a little bit of one science that they have the equivalent of a PHD in all sciences simply because they can find an internet forum full of like minded ignorant people that all sit around and circle jerk about how smart they are. Which is THE problem. 8,000,000 people all saying humans don't need oxygen to live, does not, by simple weight of numbers, make their deduction "true". But, you give them all a keyboard and they will sit around telling one another that they can all breath underwater.
A little bit of knowledge is a really dangerous thing and what we are seeing happen today is people accessing the bare bones of information regarding a subject, then afterwards declaring themselves experts.
I spent a year and a half researching my M4 before I bought it. Reading as much as I could. Hell I didn't know what a DI gas system was when I first started looking at getting into automatic rifles. I drove to every gun store within 100 miles of me. I held every brand name I could get my hands on. Then I found this site, and started the process all over until I found the best rifle I could find in my area. Now I've learned more and want to start all over and get another M4 (but I think I will pick another thing I'm really ignorant in, and start getting into pistols).
People don't do research anymore. They live by their gut and their heart, not their brain. I'm actually starting to think that the Age of Reason has ended.
montanadave
04-03-11, 17:02
Thanks, I would never have found that in a millennia.
Me, too! I kept reading threads talking about the "Report Post" button and I couldn't find it to save my life.
Now, QUICK, somebody post something incredibly stupid or unbelievably vulgar so I can try it out! :no:
variablebinary
04-03-11, 18:25
Now, QUICK, somebody post something incredibly stupid or unbelievably vulgar so I can try it out! :no:
The XD is a better duty weapon than a Glock :ph34r:
Here's a much better "exhibit A"
(http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=78102)
and "exhibit B (http://www.airsoftcanada.com/member.php?u=49329)", for clarification.
"Airsoft Canada"?
maybe we should have a noob area... on one of my climbing forums, there's a whole sub-forum devoted solely to noobs... i think it's just called "newbies." there is a series of stickies devoted to the common stupid-noob questions on getting started, gear selection, styles, terminology, etc.. noobs can ask stupid noob questions and senior members are expected to give it straight, but not be total asses. they are, afterall, a bunch of damn noobs. sort of a safe area. perhaps assign the more patient moderators to it, in the hopes that new members won't be scared away entirely.
just a thought.
Thats a very good idea. Its almost like the play place at mcdonalds...you can act like a jackass just like all the other jackasses and its okay lol.
Here's a much better "exhibit A"
(http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=78102)
and "exhibit B (http://www.airsoftcanada.com/member.php?u=49329)", for clarification.
Honestly, I don't see anything wrong there either.
An airsoft guy wants to get into real ARs (good for him). He did some research with materials available like gun rags (at least he tried) and before he just went ahead and did it, he asked around (smart move).
So he shows up here with what he "believes" is a sound setup. People tell him it isn't and give him advice on what he should get. Rather than just accept Opinion B over Opinion A, he questions Opinion B until "he understands it himself."
And once brought up to speed he says...
"Thanks for the advice guys. I am in the processing of rethink my lower selection."
To me that is a success story and an excellent example of the value of this forum.
To use your very accurate description from another thread, that M4C is a business, well zollen would be a new customer. Let's hope the old customers don't run him off because they think he isn't worthy.
This is not the first forum he's shown up on, nor the first forum where he's posted this stupid shit. He's like a little kid asking mom first and then when he doesn't like the answer he gets, asking dad.
I have at least two former Airsofters that shoot with us, and both of them are intelligent, competent, understand the difference between what they're doing now and what they did then, etc. None of which can be said about out pre-pube from Canada.
When I got into AR's, I was so ignorant that I couldn't find my ass with a flashlight and a mirror! So I read. Then I read some more. Then after ONE YEAR of reading, I bought an AR. Then I shot it. Then shot it some more. Then I posted on a forum.
Gone are these days. Now, you go onto the most technical gun forum on the net (without actually owning a firearm) and tell SME, IP's, etc that they can't find their ass with a flashlight and a mirror. This gets real old real fast.
C4
Seems like two very different issues.
With your first example, I don't see anything wrong with an new guy coming to a forum to seek "expert advice" prior to his purchase. I do understand the point about the search feature, but honestly there have been times when my search didn't produce the specific information I was looking for. With respect the the crappy China Sight in the OP, I doubt he would have found much because not too many people here are posting about their shitty China Tech sights. Sometimes you just have to ask.
Now your second point is a completely different matter. If after being informed otherwise you then insist that your China Tech sight is the best thing ever made and you tell other people they don't know shit from shinola, well that is another matter entirely and should not be tolerated at all. And that is where that report button comes in handy.
This is not the first forum he's shown up on, nor the first forum where he's posted this stupid shit. He's like a little kid asking mom first and then when he doesn't like the answer he gets, asking dad.
I have at least two former Airsofters that shoot with us, and both of them are intelligent, competent, understand the difference between what they're doing now and what they did then, etc. None of which can be said about out pre-pube from Canada.
I don't know the guy. I don't know anything about his actual situation.
I'm only going by what he posted here, and I didn't see anything out of line. My synopsis was based upon the topic you linked.
Mr. Goodtimes
04-03-11, 22:34
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=78102
This is another peftect example. I have noticed a huge influx of idiots here lately and it's starting to get old. Read for **** sake, and use common sense. If you're not going to follow those two simple steps, stay off the internet, and preferably out of society.
If we do decide to have a DUMBASS Forum I would be glad to moderate it as I've been told that I have a special proclivity for this skillset:p
I would like to see the creation of a newbie forum on here.
Littlelebowski
04-04-11, 08:53
I would like to see the creation of a newbie forum on here.
Like this one (https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=173)?
Like this one (https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=173)?
How the hell did that get there?
I think this is the Noob Forum
New to Firearms/Shooting
I still think we need a TOSser Forum or maybe a more PC name would be The Enlightenment Forum for those still in the Dark Ages;)
It really wouldn't be a bad thing to have a forum that pulls all the clueless threads out of general population and lets them know they are not posting with the sense or decorum that is expected on M4C. It doesn't have to be done in such a way as to run off the truly clueless that can be turned to the light, but just keep them from dragging down the high standards that are most often practiced here.
Its not like some of my posts wouldn't have ended up there:eek: We all have our bad days and all at times suffer from mentoring scars that have not been rectified.
Seems like two very different issues.
With your first example, I don't see anything wrong with an new guy coming to a forum to seek "expert advice" prior to his purchase. I do understand the point about the search feature, but honestly there have been times when my search didn't produce the specific information I was looking for. With respect the the crappy China Sight in the OP, I doubt he would have found much because not too many people here are posting about their shitty China Tech sights. Sometimes you just have to ask.
When I started to get into AR's, I didn't need to ask anyone anything. There was so much that I did not know that I could spend YEARS reading and not cover everything.
The point is, more reading and less typing would work best for most.
For noobs reading this thread, here is what you do. Find a member that you like (and is respected) and read everything they write. Look at their weapon and gear selection. Ask them why they went with what they did. I gurantee that this will work out well for you!
I personally like helping new members/shooters. So much so, that I teach FREE pistol and carbine classes all year long. With that said, if I see attitude, then I am out.
C4
I still think we need a TOSser Forum or maybe a more PC name would be The Enlightenment Forum for those still in the Dark Ages;)
It really wouldn't be a bad thing to have a forum that pulls all the clueless threads out of general population and lets them know they are not posting with the sense or decorum that is expected on M4C. It doesn't have to be done in such a way as to run off the truly clueless that can be turned to the light, but just keep them from dragging down the high standards that are most often practiced here.
Yes, this is what I was thinking.
I personally like helping new members/shooters.
Same here... I'm more than happy to reply to PMs when guys ask questions.
We need to work on keeping the mods posting in the public forums instead of hiding in the Mod forums. :p
SWATcop556
04-04-11, 13:30
I think people would be suprised how little time we do spend in the mod forum. It has a mystic about it similar to the LE forum yet there's really not much to it.
I prefer to spend my time here in the AR and handgun sections, dealing with reported posts, and occassionally bitch slapping a true troll.
Army Chief
04-04-11, 14:20
... to say nothing of the fact that 90% of what goes on in the Mod area is strictly related to the work that we're doing, or to call attention to threads that are moving in the wrong direction. It's not really much of a discussion area ... more like a "to do" list.
AC
SWAT- I'm surprised you have time. The little one must take up a shit ton of time. My 6 month old girl gets almost every extra minute I have. Hell, it took me several hours of back and forth to box up a 6920 upper to send off to Robb for a DD rail. But I bet you find time for a Shiner.:D
For noobs reading this thread, here is what you do. Find a member that you like (and is respected) and read everything they write. Look at their weapon and gear selection. Ask them why they went with what they did. I gurantee that this will work out well for you!
I've done this on many occasions through out my time here at M4C, especially in the beginning. I've gained some very valuable information by reviewing some Mod's and SME's old posts. I think it's a very valuable tool and you'll be able to view their opinions, their equipment selection and train of thought on many different common subjects that come up in the threads.
Left click once on the person's name and then select "find all posts", happy reading.
SWATcop556
04-05-11, 00:10
SWAT- I'm surprised you have time. The little one must take up a shit ton of time. My 6 month old girl gets almost every extra minute I have. Hell, it took me several hours of back and forth to box up a 6920 upper to send off to Robb for a DD rail. But I bet you find time for a Shiner.:D
Can you believe she's almost 20 months? She acts like she's going on 18 though. She loves telling me "no" just like her mother. I don't have too much time for anything else other than family and work but I don't mind. I still get my trigger time with the job.
And there's always time for Shiner. :alcoholic:
Can you believe she's almost 20 months? She acts like she's going on 18 though. She loves telling me "no" just like her mother. I don't have too much time for anything else other than family and work but I don't mind. I still get my trigger time with the job.
Enjoy her. She WILL be 18 before you know it.
And the saying NO only gets worse. Mine is A few months past 3 and is well versed.
Belmont31R
04-05-11, 01:09
At least mine say no thank you....:p
NinjaMedic
04-05-11, 02:13
With a recent spike (albeit subjectively) in the number of new members who seem reluctant to leverage the existing wealth of wisdom contained in the vast number of quality threads on this forum by placing their time and energy into searching and researching their questions, how do we as a community best mentor them to the appropriate knowledge and behavior until they become accustom to the culture here? It is clear that unless an answer to this is discovered, the forum risks driving away valued members who inevitably become disillusioned with "outsiders" or "new-comers" who do not immediately fit into the culture of this organization. Of course the converse is also inevitable, if we do not maintain a steady flow of new blood with new thoughts, ideas, experiences etc this board becomes stagnant and eventually withers. New members must feel included but there is also a burden on them to learn and to a limited extent conform to the culture here. I am sure these discussions are being had at the staff and moderator level as well but I have to wonder if there is some artificial way to promote this integration process for new members while also preventing group-think and idea suppression. Perhaps new members could be limited to a read only status or limited to posting in the New Member thread for a period of time such as 45 days. Maybe even an indefinite time frame with some sort of "credentialing" requirement i.e. a sub-group of members is assigned as "mentors" in the New Members forum under the supervision of a moderator to review an individual members performance and make a recommendation on extending posting privileges to that new member throughout the rest of the forum. Just a thought.
Army Chief
04-05-11, 05:32
Perhaps new members could be limited to a read only status or limited to posting in the New Member thread for a period of time such as 45 days. Maybe even an indefinite time frame with some sort of "credentialing" requirement i.e. a sub-group of members is assigned as "mentors" in the New Members forum under the supervision of a moderator to review an individual members performance and make a recommendation on extending posting privileges to that new member throughout the rest of the forum.
I'm not sure how we would actually go about implementing some of these ideas, but I definitely find value in your line(s) of thought.
AC
When I started to get into AR's, I didn't need to ask anyone anything. There was so much that I did not know that I could spend YEARS reading and not cover everything.
The point is, more reading and less typing would work best for most.
This is sorta the part I don't understand. I blame someone (not sure who) for the whole "there are no stupid questions" attitude some people have.
It should be "ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer." New unique questions are always welcomed. If you ask a "stupid" question you just proved to God, your mother, and everyone else that you are in fact stupid. Talk about what you do know instead of what you don't know and people will think you're a goddamn genius.
If you don't know something, research it.
The idea of throttling new poster counts, or relegating them to new-member corrals, has been proposed before, and many other forums do exactly this. I don't think it's a bad idea at all.
Smuckatelli
04-05-11, 08:08
Something to keep in mind:
When a 'salty' member answers back only with 'use the search function.' The person seeking the knowledge will discover the good, the bad, and the ugly. A simple question about rails, BCGs, barrels......will end up with so many hits that the OP would have been better off not asking the question.
I have seen some people linking to the chart thread, this is good but it can also lead the OP into a corner. I think linking a specific post within a thread would probably help the OP get a better azimuth of where he needs to go for the information.
We shouldn't be PC but we also shouldn't be rude to the new guys checking in with questions. Eventually this site would become a self licking ice cream cone where the only people posting would be the old timers.
Spurholder
04-05-11, 10:08
^and there's a way to do this without being rude. New guys liked being pointed in the right direction...I certainly did when I came to the site. But how many "so what's so great about a staked gas key" threads can we shove in the tech forum?
I think that a quick explanation on the use of the search function, followed by a link to an example thread, is a decent way to accomplish this without coming across like a pedant.
outrider627
04-05-11, 11:18
I found this video sometime ago, but I forgot about it. Mods, can we somehow make this a mandatory training video for new members? :D
Posting and You... (http://www.starterupsteve.com/swf/posting.html)
It should be "ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer." New unique questions are always welcomed.
How would one decide what a "stupid question" is by definition? Where do you draw that line for newer members? How about a "unique" one? Is something unique only if it has never been asked?
How about if it's been asked only once, or maybe five times the past 5 years? Or maybe just twice each year...
Smuckatelli
04-05-11, 11:45
I found this video sometime ago, but I forgot about it. Mods, can we somehow make this a mandatory training video for new members? :D
Posting and You... (http://www.starterupsteve.com/swf/posting.html)
Awesome video
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