Close range transition drill question

[UVvis]

Question for everyone,

I was shooting some transition drills and having a hard time with my pistol shot placement. What I was doing was firing a few rifle shots to the head, then transitioning to pistol. I keep thinking about the sight offset and putting the first pistol bullet in the very top of the head. As I worked on this I was getting better at not doing this.

Anyone else run into this?

[rob_s]

What kind of optic/sights are you using on the AR? I run a 1.5x Compact ACOG w/ triangle on my shorty so I think the complete change in sight pictures helps me keep from having the same issue as you.

I tend to have more trouble with the change in triggers than I do with sight offsets. Going from a gritty stock Colt AR trigger to a nice smoother Ed Brown 1911 trigger tends to make me snatch the trigger on at least the first pistol shot.

[Gunfighter13]

Question for everyone,

I was shooting some transition drills and having a hard time with my pistol shot placement. What I was doing was firing a few rifle shots to the head, then transitioning to pistol. I keep thinking about the sight offset and putting the first pistol bullet in the very top of the head. As I worked on this I was getting better at not doing this.

Anyone else run into this?

You may be changing your focus from the sights to the target when you make the first shot from the handgun. That will cause you to shoot high.

It is natural to have a clear focus of the target with the rifle but when you transition to the handgun and shift your focus to the target it will throw the first shot off. The following shots are usually corrected and your hits come back down.

[Wraith]

How fast are you trying to go through the drill? I've noticed that if I slow down A LOT when I'm practicing and focus on the basics rather than speed, I'll put the transition pistol shots right where I want them. I've noticed the opposite if I try and speed through the transition. My biggest bit of advice is to start off VERY slowly. Once you've got it down pat and you're nailing the fundamentals then speed easily comes.

[MX5]

Without observation, my suggestion is to go slowly and smoothly, thinking it through by 'the numbers'. Work on this until it becomes second nature. When transitioning to a blaster or even immediately after reloading any weapon, many shooters try to 'catch-up' and fire the weapon too quickly without re-acquiring a proper sight picture. Focus on sight picture in relation to the threat, immediately following the reload or transition, and do it slowly and smoothly in practice. Smooth is fast - the speed will come. You'll be fine.

[gunny]

Question for everyone,

I was shooting some transition drills and having a hard time with my pistol shot placement. What I was doing was firing a few rifle shots to the head, then transitioning to pistol. I keep thinking about the sight offset and putting the first pistol bullet in the very top of the head. As I worked on this I was getting better at not doing this.

Anyone else run into this?

Is your first shot with the pistol single or double action?

[UVvis]

My problem is that the bullet is going right where I want it (well, mostly, I'm a lousy shot), I'm just wanting it to go in the wrong spot.

What I'm doing is adjusting for sight offset with the rifle, and keeping this adjustment when firing with the pistol.

So I'm wondering if I'm focusing to much on the marksmanship aspect of the rifle shots close, and having a hard time breaking that focus when I switch to pistol.

Rob, that is a good point. I'm a lefty long gun and right handed little gun shooter, I've never really run into that but I can see what you are talking about.

[PropDoc]

It is called a transition for a reason. You have to work on the ENTIRE transition.........that includes your brain. It takes practice.

First off.........SLOW DOWN.... you must get the technique correct before you hone it up. When you transition, THINK about the transition, not about where you are gonna shoot the target (that comes later).

Work through the entire transition step by step thinking about each step before you perform it (yes, to the casual observer it looks a little silly, screw them, it's practice).
1. Decide to transition (do you have time and cover to un-fu@# your rifle? If so, do it.)
2. Ready your rifle for transition (it does not hurt to attempt to apply the safety, besides, it beats shooting a hole in yourself).
3. Stow the rifle (control it to stow, don't just drop it).
4. TRANSITION YOUR BRAIN TO YOUR SIDEARM!!!
5. Bring your sidearm to bare (using proper technique and steps)

If you do this several time actually switching your brain from your rifle to your sidearm, you will find it helps a bunch on your first round. Have fun. :)

[Pat_Rogers]

You are going to make your pistol nekkid'?

Aside from that, you are adding a whole lot of unnecessary movements to what should be an immediate action drill- that is, non diagnostic.
We use SOP's for most everything, and the SOP we use is within 25yds or inside astructure the IAD is to immediately go to the blaster.
There should be no thinking about it.
Consider this. You have what you believe is a stoppage- Maybe a Type 1 or Type 2. So you decide to un**** it.
Turns out it is a Type 3 and requires immediate action.
So, watcha' gonna do now bunky? You have already wasted the most precious of lifes commodities- time.

[mark5pt56]

A side note, are you setting the rifle up to fail so you have a reason to transition? (I know that's not the only reason, but for the most part it is) Which there is no reason and can't anyhow apply the safety or it's pointless because it's empty. ( "click" or bolt lock)

Also, try shooting "out of the notch" with the carbine/rifle. It is quicker up close and lessens the effect of barrel-sight relationship. Your impact will be closer to what you see with the sights. It does take some practice to know how much front sight you see above the aperature.

Don't lock onto the "target" so much to where you don't assess it while transitioning. This may help with putting the sights of the pistol where they need to be.

Just a thought

Mark

[ndd]

Just my two cents with 450 studs trained:
1. Stop head shooting IADs
2. Move one step over as you transition
3. Might try painting a red dot on the target chest where you want to hit with the pistol - just for a bit. It will draw your attention. Also good for going from hands to heart when you get fast.

Hey Pat, it's Sneaky, how goes it.

[Pat_Rogers]

Sneaky Brother!!
Glad to see another Stud here. Welcome aboard!

[UVvis]

Thanks for the pointers Ndd. Putting a distracting something on the target should help.

Mark, transitioning when the big gun's trigger quits working due to dummy rounds or empty mags.

I think I'm getting caught up in shooting the drills with speed and accuracy to much to look at the bigger picture of what skills I'm working on.

[Pat_Rogers]

Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. Work on technique. Speed will follow, but only under pressure.

[Sam]

Get professional training. It's worth it to do it right than floundering for years with inefficient technique.

[SIMPLYDYNAMIC]

Thanks for the pointers Ndd. Putting a distracting something on the target should help.

Mark, transitioning when the big gun's trigger quits working due to dummy rounds or empty mags.

I think I'm getting caught up in shooting the drills with speed and accuracy to much to look at the bigger picture of what skills I'm working on.

You need to think realistic about the transition situation... if you ever have to transition to your secondary during a critical stress incident then most likely you are going to be to close to worry about marksmanship skills... even for a seasoned shooter, At that point you will be shooting intuitivley, so first off try practicing shooting the target center mass 99% percent of the time. Once you have an intuitue base down with your secondary sighted and non sighted then you will beable to start balancing speed and precision.

And as for thinking about the transistion... Well you will see a lot of different opinions here, but if you are in a close critical stress incident and something dosent go bang do you think your going to think about your transition? At that point the primary is nothing more that an obsticle in the way of your secondary, get it the hell out of the way as fast as you can... and then do a clean draw. Dont worry about exesive bullshit movements...Like somone metioned above and my old saying is that time is life.

We know how to move fast... we may not be up to speed on shooting but we can shoot slower transition fast! and shoot slower... and speed up as perfect practice allows.

[Submariner]

Get professional training. It's worth it to do it right than floundering for years with inefficient technique.


Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. Work on technique. Speed will follow, but only under pressure.

During my fifth class with Pat in July, I had a failure to fire at the three yard line. (Crappy SA ammunition.) Before "Oh, Shi'ite." came out of my mouth (I was quite surprised at the "Click"), I had rotated the carbine down and conducted the "Grip" step of the draw stroke. I completed the draw stroke and delivered an NSR to the chest. (In my mind this was real, not a drill.)

Why? Because that is what he trained me to do every year for the last four (except, maybe, the NSR; it probably should have been a failure drill) and between classes I practiced it, by the numbers, literally as my lips were moving, until I did it right. Then I practiced more.

The best part was the smile on his face when I ejected the cartridge and we discovered the problem. No moosecock! Were it real (not likely given my line of work) I might not be dead.

Truth: Good initial training and sustainment training are the key.

[unknownsailor]

No Moosecock is always nice. :)

Some of us in the Eloy class were practicing our transition drill on Day 1. /raises hand.