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eightmillimeter
04-03-11, 19:55
Templar,
I see the "XDM as a duty weapon" thread was closed. Several people were told to search for XD topics to get their answers. I tried several different search combinations and didn't come up with anything, so I went to the last page in the forum and started looking.

Funny thing though, on the third to last page (221), I find this thread:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=902

You yourself started that thread because you were interested in an XD at the time (they had already been out for several years). At that time nobody had anything bad to say. Our very own Robb J and yourself stated things along the lines of how durable they were or appeared.

Now, several years later, the XD is not highly regarded. This is not a jab post (not a jab), but the opinions of some people have obviously changed in the next few years. Which brings me to the following.

Did the XD start out in its prime and get worse (QC), or had the guns just not been out long enough at that time for people to experience the problems with them? Or, was it just not everything they were expected to be (other than ugly as hell), the ergonomics really are pretty good and the disassembly is almost as good as it gets.

I am not writing this as an XD fanboy or promoter, rather just trying to play devils advocate. The chief complaint about the grip safety and not being able to manipulate the slide one handed, is really a non issue for me (when I do these drills I grip on the grip and use the front sight on my holster or boot heel to rack the slide, so I have no problem manipulating the slide with one hand).

Another complaint about the LCI getting fouled and staying in the loaded position really isn't a big deal either (the M&P LCI really is the way to go(little hole to look in)) and is easily solved by just removing it and a lot of people did that.

As far as breakage issues, I really have no room to talk, I've seen parts failures of all kinds in many handguns including M&P and Glock, they all suffer from them from time to time. I have no experience with HK pistols. That said, I really can't see how the XD would have so many parts failure problems associated with it or necessarily more than any other gun. Glocks honestly probably break more often simply because there are so many more of them in use and they get used a ton.

And like one guy said cost really is an issue, especially these days. Departments that issue guns are usually large departments that have lots of officers. Glock and S&W can out bid anybody, and 10 bucks a gun (even if it was that much) could mean the difference in a department adopting a particular gun. Plus when you count in the reputation those companies had (and the already huge availability of duty gear like holsters, extra mags, pouches, etc) the XD never even had a chance to be issued in large numbers.

Bottom line is if NYPD went out tonight and decided to issue every officer an XDM, people would be singing a different tune, and if there was a real issue, Springfield would be quick to improve to save their reputation.

opmike
04-03-11, 20:42
Bottom line is if NYPD went out tonight and decided to issue every officer an XDM, people would be singing a different tune

With the near universal hate the XD has on this forum, I seriously doubt this would be the case.

That said, I don't have a significantly high amount of first-hand experience with the XD or seeing it fail in the hands of others, nor do many others that claim that it is a POS.

Now, I'm not saying that it ISN'T a POS, but there is a unfortunately high amount of noise regarding some topics here. In any case, I have nothing invested in seeing a company's handgun fail or succeed. I don't buy XD's because they are more of an unknown quantity than a number of other handguns that have proven themselves under some pretty serious amount of use. I don't really care if the XD didn't get a far shake, not my problem.

Packman73
04-03-11, 20:49
Lol, great thread. Croatian Sensation FTW.:cool:

variablebinary
04-03-11, 20:58
Here you go, and before you go refuting anything DocGKR has to say, you better seriously have the longest list of credentials and experience this forum has seen.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887


XD's are a no go for serious use--the inability to retract the slide without engaging the grip safety makes one-hand injured operation very difficult with the XD--this is a deal breaker for me. In addition, in some government tests, XD's (particularly the .40's) have broken a lot of parts compared to other pistols being tested...I'll take a 9 mm Glock or M&P any day of the week over an XD.

TOrrock
04-03-11, 21:06
In the 5 years since that thread was started, several things have come to light.

More of the XD's started turning up at classes, and more started failing.

More departments tested them when looking for new handguns, and more started failing.

More XD's started hitting the streets, and people started putting more rounds through them, and they started failing in disproportionate numbers.

When police departments have handguns that don't make the cut, and when top trainers in the country, who see thousands of students a year and tens of thousands of rounds down range, you start to see patterns. There is only one well known, well publicized trainer (he writes articles for Guns and American Handgunner), who endorses the XD series, and frankly, I do not put him in the same league as I do several others.

More data is available, 5 years after that initial post.

Bottom line, if NYPD went out and replaced all of their Gen 3 Glocks with Gen 4, I'd say they were making a mistake, and that they should wait a couple years and let Glock work the bugs out.

If you like your XD's, rock on and shoot the shit out of them, but taken as a whole there are serious issues with the system and every instructor and SME that I respect will tell you that they are not duty ready. I have seen the issues with my own eyes as well.

And just to open another can of worms, in the 5 years since that thread was started, several other very prestigious firearms companies started turning out crap, when taken as a whole.

Packman73
04-03-11, 21:12
Here you go, and before you go refuting anything DocGKR has to say, you better seriously have the longest list of credentials and experience this forum has seen.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

I saw 2 points he had about XDs being a 'no-go'.
1. Grip safety preventing one-handed slide manipulation. Not even an issue as I can tell. I can rack the slide all day one-handed.
2. Some of the 40's broke early on. Well some of them did have problems with the locking block cracking early on but this was addressed with relief cuts and has not been an issue in years as I'm aware of.

My experiance with the 4 I've owned has been flawless. If I were in combat, I'm not, but if I were, I'll take the XD no one else wants lol.


Btw, any links I can find XDs 'failing in disproportionate numbers'?

Rmplstlskn
04-03-11, 21:15
And just to open another can of worms, in the 5 years since that thread was started, several other very prestigious firearms companies started turning out crap, when taken as a whole.

SIG... :suicide2:

Rmpl

F-Trooper05
04-03-11, 21:17
An overwhelming majority of trainers and industry professionals do not advocate XD's for serious use. If that means nothing to you, than buy an XD and drive on. There's really nothing more to say.

TOrrock
04-03-11, 21:19
An overwhelming majority of trainers and industry professionals do not advocate XD's for serious use. If that means nothing to you, than buy an XD and drive on. There's really nothing more to say.


No, there really isn't.

If you like your XD or XDM, drive on until it crashes.