View Full Version : Range Impressions of my first AR
Radioflyer
04-03-11, 20:29
Range Report: CMMG AR-15 Carbine.
I took the AR for its first range trip today. I went to the local indoor range with my father and only put 100 rounds through it. The rifle side of the range is only 20yds but it gave me a good feel of how everything works. I also got a chance to roughly adjust the new Primary arms M3 red dot sight. I say roughly because the benches there do not lend them selves well to steady rifle shooting. I ended up using the magazine as a monopod…eventually I’ll take it to an outdoor range to finalize the adjustments.
Once I got the sights aligned, I could reliably shoot a 1” grouping at 20 yards…. this took considerable control and patience to balance everything since I had to bend forward to use the bench.
Initial thoughts:
The rifle performed well with no major performance issues. There are a couple things I’d like to change. I will most likely invest in the following:
- Replacement MBUS rear sights that are lower profile to fit the 3X flip magnifier
- A new flip-to-side magnifier mount. The existing one from primary arms is a pain in the ass to move.
- Trigger job (probably just refining the single-stage trigger)
- A Magpul CTS stock or similar. The existing stock feels very cheap and does not seem to be stable
Initial thoughts:
The rifle performed well with no major performance issues.
Any minor performance issues/malfunctions?
100 rounds is an ok number to get used to how the rifle shoots on a basic level. But i suggest shooting around 1000 rds before you start changing out components based on perceived need. The more you shoot the faster you'll realize what you need on the gun. Hold off on any purchases besides maybe a good sling (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Blue-Force-Gear-Victory-2-Point-Sling-p/vs-2-bk.htm).
Other than that buy as much ammo as you can and shoot the weapon as much as you can. Lastly congrats on getting into the AR, read all of the stickied threads in AR general and AR tech as they helped me a ton when i was starting and i still refer to them.
Range Report: CMMG AR-15 Carbine.
Once I got the sights aligned, I could reliably shoot a 1” grouping at 20 yards…. this took considerable control and patience to balance everything since I had to bend forward to use the bench.
Initial thoughts:
The rifle performed well with no major performance issues.
100rds. isn't enough to give an opinion on. Run it in a high round count class and let us know. 1" group at 20 yds-nothing to write here about.
Radioflyer
04-04-11, 18:02
Any minor performance issues/malfunctions?
Only that the flip to side mount was difficult to use mostly due to the clearance issue with the MI MBUS. On the rifle itself, no issues at all.
100 rounds is an ok number to get used to how the rifle shoots on a basic level. But i suggest shooting around 1000 rds before you start changing out components based on perceived need. The more you shoot the faster you'll realize what you need on the gun. Hold off on any purchases besides maybe a good sling (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Blue-Force-Gear-Victory-2-Point-Sling-p/vs-2-bk.htm).
Other than that buy as much ammo as you can and shoot the weapon as much as you can. Lastly congrats on getting into the AR, read all of the stickied threads in AR general and AR tech as they helped me a ton when i was starting and i still refer to them.
I have a Troy single point sling that came with the rifle, but haven't really tried it out yet. I love how informative the sticky threads are here. Info for weeks to come!
100rds. isn't enough to give an opinion on. Run it in a high round count class and let us know. 1" group at 20 yds-nothing to write here about.
True, but that's all that was available there.
I'd wait on the magnifier, and the stock - spend some time getting better with the irons and the red dot, and start working on offhand shooting. I wouldn't bother with the trigger job for now - after just 100rounds the stock one hasn't even gotten the residual parkerize off the friction surface - use it, and get used to it. Off a bench, stock triggers are still good for 1" groups at 60yd.
Spend money on more ammunition, and a few magazines. Get proficient with the setup you have right now, you'll make much bigger improvements right now just having a good time shooting.
SirPeasant
04-07-11, 23:58
I just installed a Geissele SD-C trigger in one of my rifles. Love it.
Tonight I spent 4 hours trying to polish the trigger of the 2nd rifle and by golly they were super noticeably smoother and well polished compared to when I started. I even slightly bent the hammer spring to lighten it up a bit. End result. Only a slight and I do mean SLIGHT difference in how the trigger felt. Just a little bit better but not what I expectred.
My point: I feel it a waste of time trying to make the stock trigger better. Just throw in the towel and go with a good aftermarket trigger and you will love your trigger much better.
I just installed a Geissele SD-C trigger in one of my rifles. Love it.
Tonight I spent 4 hours trying to polish the trigger of the 2nd rifle and by golly they were super noticeably smoother and well polished compared to when I started. I even slightly bent the hammer spring to lighten it up a bit. End result. Only a slight and I do mean SLIGHT difference in how the trigger felt. Just a little bit better but not what I expectred.
My point: I feel it a waste of time trying to make the stock trigger better. Just throw in the towel and go with a good aftermarket trigger and you will love your trigger much better.
Or, you could just, you know, learn to shoot and all.
Amen.
Or, you could just, you know, learn to shoot and all.
Amen.
I've been shooting guns most of my life, and triggers are one of the gripes i've never had. I dont know, maybe i have a strong index finger....lol.
I've shot a few rifles with "great" triggers....to me they all work the same, just have to focus more on the heavy ones. Unless you're doing long range (600yds +) i dont really see a need....especially on an M4.
Save that $200 for ammo..
Belmont31R
04-08-11, 08:33
Whats with all these people trying to modify their stock triggers? Leave it alone!
polymorpheous
04-08-11, 08:36
I just installed a Geissele SD-C trigger in one of my rifles. Love it.
Tonight I spent 4 hours trying to polish the trigger of the 2nd rifle and by golly they were super noticeably smoother and well polished compared to when I started. I even slightly bent the hammer spring to lighten it up a bit. End result. Only a slight and I do mean SLIGHT difference in how the trigger felt. Just a little bit better but not what I expectred.
My point: I feel it a waste of time trying to make the stock trigger better. Just throw in the towel and go with a good aftermarket trigger and you will love your trigger much better.
I hope your messing with the internals of your rifle doesn't cause embarrassing ,(with possible legal ramifications), malfunctions on the range.
I've been shooting guns most of my life, and triggers are one of the gripes i've never had. I dont know, maybe i have a strong index finger....lol.
This wave of video gamers who decided to buy an AR after playing HALO Duty 87 is a sad bunch of ****s. And they hammer the gun forums HARD.
I guess sitting on the couch makes a 5-6 lb GI trigger seem too much compared to hitting the button on the game controller.
Belmont31R
04-08-11, 08:44
This wave of video gamers who decided to buy an AR after playing HALO Duty 87 is a sad bunch of ****s. And they hammer the gun forums HARD.
I guess sitting on the couch makes a 5-6 lb GI trigger seem too much compared to hitting the button on the game controller.
In fairness not all USGI type triggers are 5-6lbs. They are wildly inconsistent in my experience, and I have six spare lowers sitting here with me that say the same thing with 3 different brands represented.
Now for a non-precision based rig shooting under 200-300 yards they will work fine. I do most of my shooting from 250-750+ so a quality trigger is a great aide in making good hits and not having to fight the trigger is always a plus when you are trying to hit a 6" wide steel plate at 500 yards.
There are a lot worse things to spend money on....:p
In fairness not all USGI type triggers are 5-6lbs.
I've never measured them.... I was just tossing a figure out there.
The subject just gets old after a while.
1 - A CMMG??? You should of gotten a DD/LMT/BCM/Colt blah, blah, blah, instead...
2 - A hundred rounds is nothing. Go to a few hundred classes and shoot 10 million rounds and then get back to us...
3 - Primary Arms? Aimpoint/Eotech/NF or go home...
4 - Only 1" at 20 yards? You're nothing unless you can do .5 moa at 10,000 miles...
Just getting most of responses out of the way for ya...:D
To the OP. Enjoy your rifle and go out and shoot it (a lot). Don't put ANY MORE MONEY into it. Instead, find a BASIC carbine class to attend.
Then, after that examine what you like and what you don't like. Also be prepared to get rid of said rifle (as you might have a lemon).
C4
polymorpheous
04-08-11, 12:52
1 - A CMMG??? You should of gotten a DD/LMT/BCM/Colt blah, blah, blah, instead...
2 - A hundred rounds is nothing. Go to a few hundred classes and shoot 10 million rounds and then get back to us...
3 - Primary Arms? Aimpoint/Eotech/NF or go home...
4 - Only 1" at 20 yards? You're nothing unless you can do .5 moa at 10,000 miles...
Just getting most of responses out of the way for ya...:D
And you've just contributed to this thread how?
I understand that a lot of people have strong feelings about this forum, but some of us come here to learn.
I don't appreciate trolls.
And you've just contributed to this thread how?
I understand that a lot of people have strong feelings about this forum, but some of us come here to learn.
I don't appreciate trolls.
You do see the smiley face, right?
And I don't have strong feelings about this forum. It's just another forum. I take in what is dished out. Disect it and figure 90% of it is pure bs and go on. If that makes me a troll to you, then that is your god given right. :cool:
Pathfinder Ops
04-08-11, 13:12
Range Report: CMMG AR-15 Carbine.
I took the AR for its first range trip today. I went to the local indoor range with my father and only put 100 rounds through it. The rifle side of the range is only 20yds but it gave me a good feel of how everything works. I also got a chance to roughly adjust the new Primary arms M3 red dot sight. I say roughly because the benches there do not lend them selves well to steady rifle shooting. I ended up using the magazine as a monopod…eventually I’ll take it to an outdoor range to finalize the adjustments.
Once I got the sights aligned, I could reliably shoot a 1” grouping at 20 yards…. this took considerable control and patience to balance everything since I had to bend forward to use the bench.
Initial thoughts:
The rifle performed well with no major performance issues. There are a couple things I’d like to change. I will most likely invest in the following:
- Replacement MBUS rear sights that are lower profile to fit the 3X flip magnifier
- A new flip-to-side magnifier mount. The existing one from primary arms is a pain in the ass to move.
- Trigger job (probably just refining the single-stage trigger)
- A Magpul CTS stock or similar. The existing stock feels very cheap and does not seem to be stable
Sir,
Please do not take the following commentary wrong it is merely an observation and meant to encourage you to shoot and not spend.
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.
Shooting 100 rounds on a 20 yard indoor range with your first AR DOES NOT qualify as a litmus test for you, your gun or the gear on it.
In theory lets pretend that you you use 30 round magazines AND you filled them up appropriately (not 30rds). That means you shot enough to change magazines 4 times and made the gun a little dirty.
I don't believe for a second that enough performance data was acquired to decide there was anything about your trigger that needs modification.
Shooting a consistent 1" group at 20 yards should be second nature LONG before you purchase an optic, let alone a "flip" to the side or up or whatever magnifier. Seriously? A magnifier?
It is also not; by your description, sounding like you even were able to BZO (zero, @ 20ds?) that gun.
Learn your iron sights on a 25yd or better yet 50yd range.
Get an optic.
Co-witness that optic it with your irons.
If "NEEDED" get a magnifier.
Regarding the stock:
Is this a new rifle?
Have you shot AR's (plural) before?
The reason I'm asking these questions is:
I'm not convinced that 100 rounds out of a new manufacture AR will tell someone who doesn't have a fair amount of trigger time on an AR anything about the stocks capability. Especially when you state that you had to use the magazine as a "mono-pod" (in my opinion that is not acceptable. Others will disagree).
If that gun is new you may need to put a few hundred rounds or more through it for a break-in period before really understanding what YOU and that gun need to tweak, for a more serious future shooting experience.
Personally I don't know what the costs will be if you buy, replace and or have someone modify the things you listed in your post, but I'll bet you its far less than a 1K round case of ammo and a range membership at the local R&G club will be. Maybe you could even squeeze in a formal training day with a trainer in your area.
LASTLY go here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=28658
Rob S and a few others have some VERY sage advice on that thread.
Again no insult is meant. I genuinely want you to get out there and shoot and ask questions and learn. But STOP SPENDING MONEY ON STUFF and get some ammo and training.
:)
polymorpheous
04-08-11, 13:24
You do see the smiley face, right?
And I don't have strong feelings about this forum. It's just another forum. I take in what is dished out. Disect it and figure 90% of it is pure bs and go on. If that makes me a troll to you, then that is your god given right. :cool:
Your post came across as highly cynical and sanctimonious.
Understanding that it is difficult to communicate subtle nuances such as body language and tone of voice, I would consider proof reading your posts as to not come across as something you are not.
I apologize if I took it the wrong way, but certainly I couldn't have been the only one.
Your post came across as highly cynical and sanctimonious.
Understanding that it is difficult to communicate subtle nuances such as body language and tone of voice, I would consider proof reading your posts as to not come across as something you are not.
I apologize if I took it the wrong way, but certainly I couldn't have been the only one.
No apologies neccessary amoung gun owners. I meant it as a joke which is why I put in a smiley face. :)
RioGrandeGreen
04-08-11, 13:40
A young trainee told a Firearms Instructor at the range. "Sir. I don't know why I suck with the M4 here, on Call of Duty I kick ass with it."
You do see the smiley face, right?
Indeed I do, and it's not a damned hall pass for shitheads.
Post because you have something to say, not because you feel like saying something. There's a big difference.
Don't post in this thread again, even to respond to me.
Sir,
Please do not take the following commentary wrong it is merely an observation and meant to encourage you to shoot and not spend.
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.
Shooting 100 rounds on a 20 yard indoor range with your first AR DOES NOT qualify as a litmus test for you, your gun or the gear on it.
In theory lets pretend that you you use 30 round magazines AND you filled them up appropriately (not 30rds). That means you shot enough to change magazines 4 times and made the gun a little dirty.
I don't believe for a second that enough performance data was acquired to decide there was anything about your trigger that needs modification.
Shooting a consistent 1" group at 20 yards should be second nature LONG before you purchase an optic, let alone a "flip" to the side or up or whatever magnifier. Seriously? A magnifier?
It is also not; by your description, sounding like you even were able to BZO (zero, @ 20ds?) that gun.
Learn your iron sights on a 25yd or better yet 50yd range.
Get an optic.
Co-witness that optic it with your irons.
If "NEEDED" get a magnifier.
Regarding the stock:
Is this a new rifle?
Have you shot AR's (plural) before?
The reason I'm asking these questions is:
I'm not convinced that 100 rounds out of a new manufacture AR will tell someone who doesn't have a fair amount of trigger time on an AR anything about the stocks capability. Especially when you state that you had to use the magazine as a "mono-pod" (in my opinion that is not acceptable. Others will disagree).
If that gun is new you may need to put a few hundred rounds or more through it for a break-in period before really understanding what YOU and that gun need to tweak, for a more serious future shooting experience.
Personally I don't know what the costs will be if you buy, replace and or have someone modify the things you listed in your post, but I'll bet you its far less than a 1K round case of ammo and a range membership at the local R&G club will be. Maybe you could even squeeze in a formal training day with a trainer in your area.
LASTLY go here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=28658
Rob S and a few others have some VERY sage advice on that thread.
Again no insult is meant. I genuinely want you to get out there and shoot and ask questions and learn. But STOP SPENDING MONEY ON STUFF and get some ammo and training.
:)
Thank you for this. It is a refreshing change.
To the OP, I hate being told to just shoot more, just practice more, just do this and that but in all reality it is the truth.
Personally, I bought my rifle, put a DD rail I bought for $100 just because I wanted to put a light on later and it was a good deal at the moment. I put an ambi bolt catch lever which I already know was a good idea after taking my first class. Threw on a sling, bought several magazines, and a case of 500 rounds. My next purchase will probably be a VFG if I find a super deal on it, probably a used piece. I feel more comfortable with holding the mag well than the rail, thinking maybe it will be an improvement. But seeing as I only shoot maybe 100-200 rounds a month, I'm looking at a couple months till I look for a VFG.
Just remember, it is hard to enjoy shooting it when you spent all the money on parts and not ammo. I spent tax return money on a bunch of junk, then my transmission blew and I don't have much money to use to get ammo. Lessons learned.
Yeah, I know very low post count for me.
I started shooting when I was about 9 or 10, competed in smallbore all the way through college, and shoot about 500-750 rounds per month, handgun, and rifle.
I recently got a new Colt 1911, and first impulse was to send to custom shop for trigger work, and sights, etc. In last two months I have put around 1000 rounds through it, and have found I shoot much better with it than any of my other handguns, thus, not changing anything on it.
Lots of great advice here, these guys know what they are doing. Take their advice, find a place where you can go past 100 yards, and buy ammo before you spend anything on the rifle, optics or whatever. Buy Ammo, shoot rifle, buy more ammo and shoot some more, preferably at longer distance.
SirPeasant
04-09-11, 02:45
Originally Posted by SirPeasant
I just installed a Geissele SD-C trigger in one of my rifles. Love it.
Tonight I spent 4 hours trying to polish the trigger of the 2nd rifle and by golly they were super noticeably smoother and well polished compared to when I started. I even slightly bent the hammer spring to lighten it up a bit. End result. Only a slight and I do mean SLIGHT difference in how the trigger felt. Just a little bit better but not what I expectred.
My point: I feel it a waste of time trying to make the stock trigger better. Just throw in the towel and go with a good aftermarket trigger and you will love your trigger much better.
Or, you could just, you know, learn to shoot and all.
Thanks for your help Sir -- Today I shot my rifle with my new Geissle trigger I installed 2 nights ago and the shots were touching each other. I been shooting rifles and handguns for 49 years now and have won second place at several events. Maybe I will learn how to shoot in a couple more years. Have a great weekend Sir.
BufordTJustice
04-09-11, 05:11
I've never measured them.... I was just tossing a figure out there.
The subject just gets old after a while.
Holy Shit! I hope these guys never shoot a double action revolver...they'll declare it unfit for use!
After mastering my DA/SA SIG P228 (had it for years...about 6300 rounds through it so far), ALL rifle triggers feel like I'm cheating.
Rob said it...learning to shoot is a skill that transfers across all platforms.
Thanks for your help Sir -- Today I shot my rifle with my new Geissle trigger I installed 2 nights ago and the shots were touching each other. I been shooting rifles and handguns for 49 years now and have won second place at several events. Maybe I will learn how to shoot in a couple more years. Have a great weekend Sir.
49 years and still haven't figured out how to do it? Christ man, throw in the towel! :suicide2:
In all seriousness, we hear this all the time. Number of years shooting is utterly meaningless, as is "won second place at many events". Your post is full of holes (no pun intended) and isn't worth the time it took to write it. In order for it to be worthwhile you'd need to add (at a minimum):
type of competition
when the competition took place
what kind of firearm was used
what kind of firearms you've been using for the last 49 years
how long you've been shooting the AR with the stock trigger
the make and model of AR
number of rounds per session
number of rounds total
number of rounds per group
optic used
barrel used
shooting position used
make and model of ammo used
etc.
As someone else in this thread to eloquently put it, post because you have something to say, not because you want to say something. This (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19307) may help you going forward.
polymorpheous
04-09-11, 13:09
Originally Posted by SirPeasant
I just installed a Geissele SD-C trigger in one of my rifles. Love it.
Tonight I spent 4 hours trying to polish the trigger of the 2nd rifle and by golly they were super noticeably smoother and well polished compared to when I started. I even slightly bent the hammer spring to lighten it up a bit. End result. Only a slight and I do mean SLIGHT difference in how the trigger felt. Just a little bit better but not what I expectred.
My point: I feel it a waste of time trying to make the stock trigger better. Just throw in the towel and go with a good aftermarket trigger and you will love your trigger much better.
Thanks for your help Sir -- Today I shot my rifle with my new Geissle trigger I installed 2 nights ago and the shots were touching each other. I been shooting rifles and handguns for 49 years now and have won second place at several events. Maybe I will learn how to shoot in a couple more years. Have a great weekend Sir.
Wow.
You are a trouble maker today.
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