View Full Version : If you could have only one (GP)
I know this sounds like a GlockTalk thread, but this is my situation (due to the legal climate). The laws here stipulate you can only have one firearm in a given 'category', the shotgun being one.
So, if you could have only one, which one would it be? As said in the title I'm looking for a 'general purpose' shotgun. I know it's a myth that SGs do 'everything' and that trying to make them do so is a terrible idea. I'm not looking for one in order to turn it into a pseudo-rifle, I just want one that's good/okay for both target/comp, bad situations, and also hunting critters (last item, last priority :)).
There seems to be less material available for shotguns than there is for ARs. I've tried reading a little, and so far, it seems getting an 870P is the best bet. I just want to make sure I didn't miss anything important.
What about the Benellis? Which ones are worth considering?
Semiauto, or pump? Apparently pumps are more reliable and will let one fire more types of ammo. I like versatility.. but I'm not sure how important this particular item is.
Keep in mind when suggesting stuff that the more 'tactical' it is the less likely it is to be available over here. Like, I can get various variants of the 870 and the Benelli Nova or Super Nova, shotguns like that, but you don't need to suggest a Saiga. :D
edit - is it possible to buy the parts and convert an Express to a Police yourself? The 870P is nearly impossible to find, there's just Express and Super Magnum models available. :(
Combat_Diver
04-04-11, 05:00
If the Remington 870 MCS is available that's the one I'll take (10', 14" Rem choke and 18" rifle sighted Rem choke, fixed and seperate pistol grip, 3 shot plus 2 and 3 rd extensions). If not than I'll look at the Remington 870 3" Combos with a 26/28" Rem choked bbl for hunting/target and with a 18/20" barrel for HD or slugs.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model-870/model-870-express-combos.aspx
Here's a pic of a 870 MCS that I shot this morning.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/870_and_CZ999_Skorpinon.JPG
and the one my son had in 04'.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/shorty_list.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/shorty_1.JPG
I've got three bbls for my 870P at home. 18" cyl bore, 20" cyl bore rifle sights, and 21" Rem choke fiber optic sights for turkey with X-full or rifle choke for sabots.
CD
Forgot to add that you can upgrade the Express to near Police standards. Express has a cheaper finish and dimples on the mag tube that will have to be removed to add a extension.
Remington 870 Police
1-round extension
Rifle sights
light on forend (or pic rail to attach X300 to forend)
I am actively looking for a model 25015 (http://www.remingtonle.com/shotguns/870standard.htm).
I can't find the 870P anywhere. I suppose the importers here think people have no need for the higher quality, longer life, high reliability product just because they're hunters or target shooters. :mad:
Since I would have to upgrade the Express anyway, would you still say the same?
Some choices I've found:
*870 Express that has to be upgraded with Police parts to reach near-P standard
*Benelli Nova or Supernova
*Winchester SXP Defender
I do tend towards the 870 myself, more parts and accessories available, but I'm not sure if it's the ideal solution when only the Express is available. Thoughts? :)
Also, if that is indeed the best choice, which parts are needed? Pretty sure I can get everything at Midway, they have a distributor here.
Notes on the Express from my personal experience:
It's cost prohibitive to convert an Express to a Police usually. They aren't "bad" shotguns but the pins in the trigger group, the trigger, and trigger guard itself are all plastic. The magazine tube also has the dents in it to prevent the installation of an extended mag tube, and it has no sling attachment points. This was a $200 shotgun, and those parts to replace with the metal equivalents are quoted as about $150 from Remington.
The Police models are also parkerized, the express has some sort of black grippy finish. It seems to work ok but it has not been taken out in severely adverse conditions. A Police model with a wood stock would actually look more traditional than the black synthetic stock on the base express model.
It (the Express) also has an occasional (twice in 500 rounds) problem with ejection. The bolt will open partway and the case will get stuck pretty solidly. Usually banging it against something solid will get it open but it does not inspire confidence.
I'm not sure what the prices would be in Europe.
It's pretty solid compared to other (brands) cheap shotguns though.
Just wanted to point out that I'm not really concerned with price. Within sane bounds, of course. I'm not buying a Holland & Holland. :D
Some price examples..
Benelli M4: €2500 (I consider this somewhat not-sane :/)
Benelli M3: €1928 (same..)
Benelli Supernova: €885
Benelli Supernova Tactical: €1074
Benelli Nova: €743
Benelli Nova Tactical: €926
Remington 11-87 'Sportsman Super Mag': €902
Remington 870 Express: €410
Remington 870 Wingmaster: €841
Winchester SXP Defender: €485
Remington 870 Wingmaster: €841
This.
Wingmasters are high quality 870's. You can then buy a 18" or 14" (if legal) barrel for it. Customize it as you see fit (stocks, side saddle, light, sights, paint/finish, etc).
Vang 870P
Can't get a Police, much less a Vang. :(
Take a look at the FN SLPs(Self Loading Shotguns)...if their available. The Mark 1 and MK1 competition might be available. Great SG for the $. If I could only have one this would be my choice.
http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF005&gid=FNG002
List your priorities....
A pump is more versatile, but if you're mainly going to be using it for skeet or especially sporting clays, then a semi auto will be a better choice.
If your main goal is a defensive arm, then a pump will be able to handle a wider variety of ammunition, but also takes more training/practice to run well.
Of the guns you listed, I'd personally go with a Remington Wingmaster, it's the same level of quality that the Police is, which is why it's costing so much over there. If I wanted a semi auto, I'd go with the Benelli M2.
Good luck.
Can't find any FN shotguns unfortunately. :(
Cheapest M2 I can find is about €1670..
If the Wingmaster is really the equivalent of the Police, I suppose that's what I'm settled on, unless there are other important points I've missed. :)
I'd have no problem going with a Wingmaster if I couldn't find a Police.
Are there any restrictions as to barrel length that you have to deal with?
A good general purpose hunting/skeet barrel will be 26" or 28", a good defensive barrel length is 14" - 20" (I'll let you convert that to cm's).
If I could only have one shotgun, I would choose a pump for reliability with all types of ammunition. In looking at pump guns, you may also check out the Mossberg 590A1 which can be had in the US for a little over $500 USD (20" 9 shot with ghost rings and a speedfeed stock), or the Winchester 1300 Defender, which can be had for around $300-$400 USD depending on condition. The 870P will probably be the most highly reccomended here, but at its pricepoint and with the availability of other viable options, I chose to go a different route. All 3 are good guns. I prefer the 590A1 beause of the location of the controls. Its safety is not a cross-bolt type like on a 1300 or 870, it is thumb operated and on the tang of the receiver. You can manipulate all the controls without moving your hand from firing position. Good luck with your scattergun hunt!
Mark
We're limited to 18" in terms of barrel length. (some sources says 50cm, a little above 21", but I see 18" versions for sale all over so it must be out of date) I know it's 18" for rifles and they've talked about normalizing SGs and rifles, so I guess that's been done now.
I really like the combo kit Combat_Diver linked, but it seems no retailers here carry the kits.
Smallest I can get the Wingmaster, however, is 26", so I suppose it's a case of buy that, and get a shorter barrel as a spare part.
The Mossbergs seem to be newly available, found one store that carries them but they've got no prices and say 'soon in stock'. :o
Stick with the Remington, it's the Gold Standard, and you have 50 years of support built into it.
18" is what we are restricted to here in the States, without special paperwork and fees, 18" is just fine for a defensive shotgun.
Depending on how much target/comp you plan to do as well as training with a pump I would lean towards the semi myself. The pump will put you at a significant disadvantage in some clay games and some types of hunting.
I'm with Templar but in reverse order. If you can afford it I'd pick the M2 first, with the 870 Wingmaster as the cheaper serviceable option.
Not many people on the Internet will admit to short stroking an "ultra reliable" pump under stress. I've done it a few times hunting and now use a semi most of the time.
A semi-auto is tempting, the only two things keeping me are the traditionalists telling me to stick to the pump, and the price of the good semi-autos. ;)
Talked to a guy in class who hunts and knows other hunters with lots of shotgun experience, says the semi-auto is the way to go, too.
Regarding the M2, are the differences between the regular one and the 'Field' (etc) very large? Like, 870 Express/870 Police-large?
We have the Field, Tactical and American models. I don't know of any action parts differences. The difference is stocks and the rifle sights on the tactical models that I have seen.
Curse the price, I'm fairly in love with the M2 now. ;)
I'm glad there's a Surefire foreend available for it. I'd ideally like to find a cheap old incandescent foreend and place one of my all-too-numerous rugged LED dropins in it.
*M2
*SF forearm (because I am a light geek, I want to mount one right away. sue me. :()
*Side saddle/caddy for rounds
*Sling mounts? I like having the end of the sling at the butt (side/top like a carbine, not bottom like an AR15) instead of at the receiver/stock interface.
*I already have a BFG VCAS two-point that should work.
Are there any essential mods to the M2, like the follower+spring for the 870? At that price I do want the gun's internals to be turnkey and ready. :p
The only thing about M2s is that if you add too much weight/mass they might not function right. Inertia operated and all. I wouldn't let that hold you back from buying it, just keep in mind how many accessories you add.
Semi-auto shotguns are the best when you plan to use one as a primary weapon.
I'll keep that in mind. I've watched the Magpul shotgun video on and off, and I do see M2s there with lights, optics and shell caddies mounted.
I'm not planning to gecko-bubba-ninja it with lasers, Millennium turbo heads and variable optics and stuff. ;)
Do you have experience regarding how much is 'too much'? Or anyone else, for that matter.
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