View Full Version : Round vs. Diamond rear iron sight.
I tried searching but it keeps telling me to wait 8 more seconds. If this was covered somewhere else, just give a link.
I was looking at the Troy rear sights and I am wondering what is the difference between the round and diamond sight. I have a slightly difficult time getting my front post centered in the rear circle. I was wondering if this design would allow quicker centering or if it is just a new wow factor design. Has anyone used them before?
http://troyind.com/%20/battlesights/troy-battlesight-rear-di-optic-aperture-doa-folding
Also, I have a DD with standard front sight block. Would this work with a FSB or am I looking at having to buy a set? It says it will not work with a "railed gas block that is higher or lower than the receiver".
I found plenty of info so I'm good on that. My only question now is about the railed gas block. Not sure what that means.
Some gas blocks that sit exposed in front of the forend have a picatinny rail on them that can be different heights for what ever its intended purpose is... if you don't have one, don't worry about it.
Why are you having problems centering your post in a round aperture?
Well, mine is just a standard front sight block. Came with plastic hand guards, hasn't been modified. I'll have to check it when I get home.
Not too sure why I was having an issue. My eye sight is not perfect, but it isn't bad enough to need glasses. They were injured in highschool so that might be a part of it. Basically I zeroed my sights at an indoor range and was grouping within about 3-4 inches at 50 yards. Considering I've never shot an AR style before I wasn't worried. At the course I took, we zeroed 3 rounds supported at probably 25yards and I was shooting high and right. Eventually closed it down to being about 1.5 inch groups at that distance. But most of the time I seemed to be having an issue with the ring disappearing and I had to move my head to refocus and then back to my weld. Most of my groups closed quickly with more up and down spread which I was told was breathing. Just wondering if the square would assist in keeping things centered even as the "ring" began to disappear.
The idea is that you should barely be able to see the rear ring. The entire theory behind aperture sights is that you don't have to focus on three things at once. If you are looking through it, you are centered. Consistent cheek weld is what keeps groups from wandering.
I understand completely how they work. I am talking the rear ring disappears to the point that I don't even know if I am looking through it. I've played with adjusting my stock further out which helps a bit, but any further gets uncomfortable.
I asked to see if you had a "known" reason for needing the diamond. Using aperture sights takes some "training", practice and teaching your eyes & brain to use them.
ZRH has given you some good advice. Your brain/eyes will with practice naturally try and center the post, so that eventually it will take little effort. I really think you need to practice and shoot for awhile before changing. (I hate it when people tell me that too;)) But aperture sights are a mix of asking your eyes to do something natural & unnatural. Natural is centering something in a circle and unnatural letting something (rear ap) go soft focus and ignoring it. If you follow ZRH's advice and practice/shoot more it should click one day.
Or....... if you have an eye issue like mine you might need to look into the diamond. My next sights will be the Troy Di-Optics because my eyes see the rear ap as egg shaped and not round which causes me to shoot vertical strings. I do not know if the diamond can help this, but it sounds promising. As for the diamond increasing speed... hmmm I'd have to see it to believe it.
Yeah, I'm not at all worried about improving speed on target and such, simply making it easier than with rounds. I know it takes time, I've just read a few people have felt the diamond does give a bit of improvement for them, others that it was worthless because the diamond blurred into a circle anyway. I was really hesitant after seeing the flip up price as $100+ but it looks like fixed is close to $65. I need to find someone that has one or a shop that will throw one on a rail for me to try out.
I played with one at the shop. The large diamond is (to me) larger than the larger round aps and I can't figure out how the small cut diamond is suppose to work without going out and shooting it, but then again I never use the small aps if I can help it bc of my eyes. Aaaaaah to have good eyes again:(
If I'm not mistaken, the smaller aperture is supposed to be for the 300-550 yard range or something like that. It is supposed to be lined up like a pistol sight with the front post between the points at the top of the diamond. I read somewhere that the standard <300 yard diamond worked good, but the 300+ aperture did not work as well.
I'm tempted to move my rear sight forward a tiny bit at a time and seeing if I notice a difference. I figure worst case with that is I have to return it to the original position and re-zero it. After backing the stock up a bit and putting more distance between my eyes and sights, I'm thinking this might help to an extent. Adjusting something I own definitely costs less than buying something.
Rmplstlskn
04-04-11, 07:18
Troy has a rep for putting out quality with product well designed... So I must assume there is some good science behind their diamond rear sights, I just don't know what it is yet and haven't used one...
They are the same price, so if I needed a rear BUIS I would give one a try...
Rmpl
I'm tempted to move my rear sight forward a tiny bit at a time and seeing if I notice a difference. I figure worst case with that is I have to return it to the original position and re-zero it. After backing the stock up a bit and putting more distance between my eyes and sights, I'm thinking this might help to an extent. Adjusting something I own definitely costs less than buying something.
You are thinking way too hard about it. The most amount of light comes through the middle of the rear sight, your eye naturally "sees" through the center of the sight. Nose to charging handle (this is how to ensure consistent cheek weld, if you already have one don't worry about this step), look at the front sight, put front sight on target, don't even think about the rear.
Do this and dry fire (MAKE SURE IT'S UNLOADED, AND POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION -.-). Do it 50 times in a row, each day for a week.
... most of the time I seemed to be having an issue with the ring disappearing and I had to move my head to refocus and then back to my weld.
Like ZHR said, there's NO issue, the ring is SUPPOSED to disappear.
It sounds like you're trying to aim an "aperture" sight like you do an "open" sight, but they're different, and what you're trying to do won't work.
If you're using "open" sights (like on most pistols, or the "notched" rear sights on old rifles), then you have to line up the rear with the front. OK.
Now you're shooting an aperture, and the idea is that you do NOT need (or want) to see the rear sight, you just want to look THROUGH it.
In the same way, if you're using an optic, then you don't look AT the scope, but you look THROUGH it.
I must not be explaining my problem correctly. I'll give it some work before I start spending money on stuff.
I'll give it some work before I start spending money on stuff.
Good idea.
One thing to keep in mind is that typically the smaller the aperture, the more acurate you'll be. Larger aperture's are faster, and easier to see through, but smaller is more precise.
I use the large aperture at 50yds or less because it's faster and easier, but at 100yds or more I switch to the small one because I want to hit the black.
That diamond-shaped aperture just seems like a stupid idea to me, but who am I to say that any of Troy's stuff is BS?
I bought the diamond aperture Troy sight and tried it out this weekend. I don't know that I like it as much as I did in the store.
The rear sights almost completely disappears. I understand aperture sights but they disappear so much that my eye has no reference to the front sight placement. The large aperture is not as bad as the small because it is a full diamond rather than half.
I feel that the rear sight disappears so much that your brain wants to keep finding it. With round aperture sights I see the rear sight but my eye stays hard focused on the front. The rear is blurred but I can center the front better.
I'll have to try it out some more.
polymorpheous
04-06-11, 20:34
You are thinking way too hard about it.
That's right.
Go shoot some more.
This was my product review at SKD:
'I am a big fan of the Troy BUIS, great quality and tough, so I had to try out the Di Optic. When running a carbine out to 50 yards, the speed of the same plane large aperture is faster at target acquisition than conventional round apertures. I think this is because the size of the rear aperture is very large and the diamond shape gives the user instant indexing of the horizontal and vertical position of the front sight.
I cannot say I am as impressed with the smaller same plane aperture. It seems too large for a distance aperture, especially if you work nose to charging handle. The sight also tries to give the user an offset reference for beyond 300 yards via the prongs pointing inward at the top of the aperture, no substitute for a true offset. In short, a great sight for shorter ranges, but tries to do too much with the smaller aperture.' :blink:
heavytank2
04-07-11, 13:43
I totally agree with O.P. and have thought of the diamond sights before.
I too have problems with the standard sights. For one, my shots are generally so off at 100yds I can't tell if its...
A) My flip up rear BUIS' "wiggle" (it moves back and forth about 0.5mm from locked/unlocked)
B) Wind
C) Cheap wolf ammo.
D) Me not centering the front post correctly.
E) I also heard a non-free float can F'up shots up to 4 MOA due to sling/rest/etc applying pressure?
All of this is probably "thinking too much" but I can shoot waaaay better with a 100 year old Mosin Nagant (hits 8 ring) after whacking the front sight with a hammer. So something is amiss.
GUN: Homebuilt.
Stagarms lower.
16" RRA Middy 1/9
YHM flip-up rear.
All of this is probably "thinking too much" but I can shoot waaaay better with a 100 year old Mosin Nagant (hits 8 ring) after whacking the front sight with a hammer. So something is amiss.
+1 on that
This was my product review at SKD:
'I am a big fan of the Troy BUIS, great quality and tough, so I had to try out the Di Optic. When running a carbine out to 50 yards, the speed of the same plane large aperture is faster at target acquisition than conventional round apertures. I think this is because the size of the rear aperture is very large and the diamond shape gives the user instant indexing of the horizontal and vertical position of the front sight.
I cannot say I am as impressed with the smaller same plane aperture. It seems too large for a distance aperture, especially if you work nose to charging handle. The sight also tries to give the user an offset reference for beyond 300 yards via the prongs pointing inward at the top of the aperture, no substitute for a true offset. In short, a great sight for shorter ranges, but tries to do too much with the smaller aperture.' :blink:
Great review Amicus!
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