View Full Version : Basic, Reliable 1911 Suggestions
I've been looking for a while now for a plain jane 1911 that is dead reliable which is my main concern. I'll be using this gun mainly for self defense as well as IDPA and IPSC. I could care less about a rail. I was thinking that I could go with a basic Kimber Custom II, replace the sights with either 10-8 or Warren tactical sights and have about the gun I was thinking about. Anyone want to offer some suggestions for guns that might fit the bill? I don't want this to turn into a brand name flame war, just what your experiences have been. I'm hoping to keep the gun under $1000 but sometimes I know that's not possible.
Kimber is as good of a roll of the dice as any. I've seen Kimbers give their owners a lot of grief in various pistol classes, but Many Kimber owners have really reliable ones too.
Production 1911s are always a gamble. You might get a great one, or you might get at turd.
I've had nothing but good luck with Springfield Armory in the past. Owned 2 Loaded models and shot the crap out of them with no issues. Also tried a Smith & Wesson for a bit as well. Sold all my 1911's and am looking to get back into them again. Think I may try the Kimber line next.
I've had nothing but good luck with Springfield Armory in the past. Owned 2 Loaded models and shot the crap out of them with no issues. Also tried a Smith & Wesson for a bit as well. Sold all my 1911's and am looking to get back into them again. Think I may try the Kimber line next.
I had a couple Kimbers and had very good luck with them. I ended up selling them because I was more into Glocks and I'm coming full circle basically. I've got a Glock 19 and I shoot the crap out of it and love it for concealed carry. I've basically been trying to simplify when it comes to the number of guns I have. For carry and competition a S&W 642, Glock 19 and 1911 should have me covered. For long guns a couple of ARs, two shotguns and a .308 bolt gun have me covered for home defense and hunting. I used to get in the mode of buying every gun I could but now I've definitely stepped back from that and think it's time to master what I have and spend the rest of the money on training and replacement parts should I ever break anything.
It's really funny you say that. I too was in a phase of buying for the sake of owning them. I "thinned" out my collection to the basics of what I need and use. I'm kicking myself in the arse for getting rid of my 1911's so as you said, full circle, I'm going back to them. I really like my M&P so that's not going anywhere I may ad an M&P 45 soon as well. But I miss the 1911! Never owned or even shot a Kimber but I really like the Desert Warrior so we'll see what Santa brings in a few months.
condition 1
09-26-07, 14:49
You might take a look at the "NRM" colts I have two, comander XSE & 80 series govt. good fit & finnish, they start around $700.00 it would make a good starting platform.
You might take a look at the "NRM" colts I have two, comander XSE & 80 series govt. good fit & finnish, they start around $700.00 it would make a good starting platform.
I haven't even thought about Colt so I'll certainly take a look and see what I come up with. I should have also mentioned it was the government model I'm looking at. Anyone have anything good to say about Para Ordnance (single or double stack)?
citadelshooter
09-26-07, 15:14
I haven't even thought about Colt so I'll certainly take a look and see what I come up with. I should have also mentioned it was the government model I'm looking at. Anyone have anything good to say about Para Ordnance (single or double stack)?
Wraith, it depends on what you want when buying a 1911. I have own several myself, sold them, rebought, etc, etc. Matter of fact sold a old Norinco Custom gun to purchase a G19 which I then sold and now have another.
All that to say, here is my advise, BUY WHAT YOU WANY FIRST. A Kimber in my opinion is the ticket. Just get a Series 1 or a newer one without the external extractor. Another option is to buy a Mil Spec SA 1911. It has decent hardball type sights and decent parts. Most importantly though, buy all the features you want on the gun first instead of going back and going custom. If you do, get a beater Colt or SA and strip it down and start over.
Concerning Paras. Ok in my experience. They small parts suck however and stay FAR FAR FAR away from the LDA action.
CB
I had great luck with STI Trojan.
I changed was Ed Brown MSH (replaced the polymer one), Greider Precision Trigger (I didn't like the look of STI Trigger) and VZ Grips.
Reliable / accurate 1911.
I was tempted by the STI trojan as well. But the cast frame was a deal breaker for me.
Sure for a full on "race" gun the STI's seem nice but having held many of the production level ones I am unimpressed.
I looked at the Trojan as well as the Lawman. The Lawman might be the way to go since it's got all the features I want and the frame and slide are forged. I wouldn't say a cast frame for me is a deal breaker but it always gives me pause since I'm a materials engineer and casting is cost effective but not always the best way to go about constructing a gun frame. As long as they have good QC it shouldn't be an issue though. I suppose one of the reasons I havnen't sprung on a 1911 yet is the issue with having so many choices, with none of them being a perfect match except maybe a custom gun but that's out of my price range at the moment. In any case thanks for the suggestions, although the more the merrier!
I'd go with either a series I Kimber if you can find one, or a SA loaded model. I just finished a Jeff Gonzales 2 day pistol course and there were 4 bone stock SA loaded models - all went close to 2,000 rounds with no issues. I've had great luck with SA.
Check out Hilton Yams web site, 10-8performance. He has a few good articles on there, including choosing a 1911.
After taking a 1911 operators course with Hilton and Ken Hackathorn, and listening to comments made by Vickers, I'm not sure you can get a good 1911 for under 1000, in terms of long term reliability and durability.
Bob
listening to comments made by Vickers, I'm not sure you can get a good 1911 for under 1000, in terms of long term reliability and durability.
Bob
I would definitely agree with that! Ironically though... the most reliable 1911 I've owned is my Norinco that I bought in the 90s for $265 bucks. I've shot classes with it, and even carried it. It's just a crap shoot with the 1911.
I love the 1911. There's no funner pistol to shoot period. But I've gone to the glock for reliability in the defense realm.
Kimber Classic Custom has treated me well for 8 years of IDPA and carry.
-B
I own several different 1911s,all different manufactures..See 1911 pic thread for a glimpse..
Anyway,unless youre stuck on a single stack,the most accurate,reliable outta the box 1911 Ive had is a stock Para-Ordanance P-14..You can pick up a used one at a local gun show for about $550..
I agree with Bob. I bought a Kimber Warrior and had nothing but headaches. It is up to its third trip to the gunsmith to make it function reliably. As for Paraordnances, there is a reason why lots of gunsmiths refuse to work on them.
Wraith, you said plain jane and then said you want to use it for IDPA and IPSC. That is a contradiction in my mind. Plain jane for me is a SA mil-spec or a Colt Govt. model, read no beavertail, no extended safety lever and simple sights. IDPA/IPSC at the least would require a beavertail for comfort and control and for most people an extended safety lever. A SA "Loaded" is going to be your best bet for an off the shelf, got what you need and will probably run with the least amount of BS, purchase. They come with Novak sights which will do you just fine and an ambi safety which will be handy for the competition aspect as they always throw in some off hand scenerios. For a few hundred more you can get a Colt XSE then add a decent upswept beavertail. Any off the shelf purchase may require a trigger job. I would avoid the S&Ws as the external extractor can be a real problem. Kimbers can be ok, but do not buy one of their external extractor models either. Good luck with your choice.
Billy
I have had zero luck with 3 Kimbers. Had good performance in the past with 2 Colts and 2 Springers. I got out of 1911s, added a second Glock, a P228 and something else. I realized that the 1911 was really where it was at for me. Got rid of 1 G19 and the P228. Picked up a Springfield Mil-Spec that had one box fired through it. Fired it for a while and sent it off to Sprigfield Custom Shop and had it doen up the I needed it. Still have a G19 for when I can't conceal the big steel.:D
my only 1911 is a Springfield loaded (px9109), and it has been 100% reliable from the fist round. i got it a couple of years ago and it is one of the "assembled in USA versions", no Imbel Brazil markings on the dust cover. i'm not sure if it makes any difference, though i have not seen one like that in a while. i paid $650 for it, but i think the price has gone up a little. the only things i've changed was to swap out the flgr for a Wilson standard guide rod and plug, and the wood grips to ergo grips.
I like the Colt 1991's both ORM and NRM. They are plain but you have a high quality foundation to build on.
For a 'basic' out-of-the-box 1911 I choose loaded Springfields with NM serial numbers, but they still need some minor work.
For a 'basic' out-of-the-box 1911 I choose loaded Springfields with NM serial numbers, but they still need some minor work.
That is what I was I able to pick up. With the NM guns you get the undercut front sight, stainless match quality 1-piece barrel, and stainless bushing.
If you can find a series 1 Kimber they are a pretty safe bet. The problem is finding one...... I've owned a couple of them over the years and they have been very reliable.
SperlingPE
09-27-07, 16:45
Plain jane - Springfield
Something with a little more
Colt full size XSE - I have had mine for 3 years with no problems.
There's no such thing as a free lunch so I think the best bet would be to start off with a loaded Springfield as a base. Shoot it a bit while I save up for a custom job. I was looking at Yost Bonitz and they seem to do good work and from everything I've read on m1911 forums everyone is happy with their work. That in my mind would give me what I'm looking for at the moment and then let me take it to the next level when my pocket book could afford it.
I've had good experiences with Springfields. I've shot over 15,000 rounds through my TRP and is still very accurate. I recently purchased a GI and am liking the retro look but decided to put some regular sights into it. I'm not a big fan of any type of series 80 system so i tend to stick with Springfields they are not bad for the price.
Also i've had to use their Customer Service once before. Quick turn around and they fitted and refinished parts that i had added for no additional cost.
My only experience with Kimbers have been with the newer ones. I've dealt with a Kimber SS. Had rust and pitting on the slide and frame, I was surprised to find that SS rusts and pits. I've dealt with a new Kimber raptor from the dealer that had rust on the bluing when i approached the dealer they had said that was normal. Considering the cost of the raptor i found it unacceptable.
I have a series 80 Colt from a friend over ten years old all stock parts shoots great and extremely accurate. No pitting has slight rust internally but to be expected from a ten year old blued gun he hardly uses.
I admit that my experience from other makers is limited and my recommendation will be biased. I would recommend a springfield Loaded or Mil spec. Good steel and can't beat the price. If nostalgia is a factor i'd recommend a Colt. If you have money to spend go for the more expensive gunsmiths, Ed brown, Wilson, etc.
Have fun and i hope that my experience helps.
QuickStrike
10-03-07, 18:20
I'd get a springfield milspec with the "NM" in the serial and maybe upgrade the extractor with a wilson's...
The ones with NM serial tend to be better fitted I think.
My milspec is this way and I haven't had any problems in about 3,000 rounds. Shot about 200-300 rounds per session fairly fast, but not super fast. I can't see the sights rise yet. :o
Edit: I think my next 1911 will be a blued colt 70 series though. Just because I already have 3 springfields.
I like the Colt 1991's both ORM and NRM. They are plain but you have a high quality foundation to build on.
Striker's right ... the plain jane Colts are GTG out of the box and great for modding. According to Colt, this one was produced in 07 and I've added a Wilson "drop-in" BTS, Nowlin hammer & sear, CMC extended mag release, Ed Brown 20 lpi MSH, skateboard tape on the front strap and some cocobolo stocks.
Here's a before and after pic.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d172/Hershel_Van/DSC00030.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d172/Hershel_Van/wilson.jpg
The Baer TRS is about $1800.00 retail, but they can sometimes be found used in very good condition for $1200.00. I have two Baers that are very reliable and accurate. They have terrific triggers and ergonomics, and they are good out of the box (although I replaced the thin grips on my TRS).
I also have a Wilson CQB Compact with a bull barrel and an STI Lawman (comes with a one-piece FLGR, which I replaced), but the Baers are the best of my non-custom pistols.
The STI Lawman is about $1250.00 NIB, but in that price range, I would look for a used Baer.
The Colts are nice, too, but if you modify the pistol, the cost of the base pistol and modifications could easily exceed the cost of a limited-production pistol.
You guys make is SO hard to decide ;) I'm not in a hurry to go right out and buy something tomorrow so I think I'll look around some more for deals that might pop up. Just a question, anyone ever shoot an Ed Brown Special Forces 1911? I know that kind of money takes you into custom territory but I've seen a few around and hadn't considered them until now.
Gunfighter13
10-03-07, 23:30
Here's my 02
Kimber Custom II or Springfield Loaded.
Both come with some upgrades and most custom gunsmiths will work on them.
Here is my Kimber Custom II. Has a Gunsite thumb safety, Wilson bulletproof slide stop, Novak night sights and NM short trigger. The recoil spring and guide rod have been removed and replaced with a 16# Wolff variable rate spring and a standard plug and spring guide for a tool less take down and one handed reloads. Still makes 3/4" 5 shot groups at 25yds.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p3c9cd525db26ba8122dda241a05f5912/e7fe2f9a.jpg
Check out Hilton Yams web site, 10-8performance. He has a few good articles on there, including choosing a 1911.
After taking a 1911 operators course with Hilton and Ken Hackathorn, and listening to comments made by Vickers, I'm not sure you can get a good 1911 for under 1000, in terms of long term reliability and durability.
Bob
Listen to Bob. And also note that Kimber is now off Hilton's list.
They are off my list too :o
Also if you've researched who won the contract for 1911's you'll notice that springfield now supplies a majority of our law enforcement and troops overseas.
I believe before Para had the contract with their HRT model for the FBI.
Also if you've researched who won the contract for 1911's you'll notice that springfield now supplies a majority of our law enforcement and troops overseas.
I believe before Para had the contract with their HRT model for the FBI.
Thats a huge can of worms we shouldn't open. My understanding is the adopted guns, still need help, annd they're still 1911's.
The HRT guns, used Para frames, thats all, and weren't succesful for whatever reason.
Vickers doesn't recomend double stack 1911's or 1911's shorter then 5 inches.
Bob
Vickers doesn't recomend double stack 1911's or 1911's shorter then 5 inches.
Bob
I understand the 3" guns but commanders? Are they inherintly unreliable?
Pic of my first Colt. Got other 1911's but haven't owned a Colt until recently.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/Dragnaath/M1911.jpg
I'm not a gunsmith, Hilton or Vickers, so take it for whats it worth...
My understanding is that anything shorter then 5'', which is what the gun was designed as, will inheritantly be unreliable, or more difficult to make reliable. Not sayin there aren't Commanders and Officers that work, its just more work to get them that way.
I also think both Hilton and Larry's standards of reliability and durability maybe somewhat higher then most shooters, especially those on some other forums.;)
Bob
Shot my first 1911 back in 1959, a DCM gun purchased for $17, then resold to my understanding parents for $25 and a Christmas 1960 present for me.
Did the IPSC thing when basically stock guns were common; carried a LW Colt Commander for work for a while. Have always had a few Colts on hand. As a charter member of the KISS club, the fewer gimmicks the better they seem to run.
Have been mostly a wheelgunner for a long time now, but still shoot 1911s occasionally. Picked up a "free" SA stainless Mil-Spec a couple of years ago and it has been an excellent gun. Only change I made was to replace a too-low front sight with a dovetailed unit to refine the zero. Have had no need to go inside the gun as it had a decent trigger to start with and no issues. It shoots at least as well as I do, probably better.
It isn't especially fond of the old 200 gr H&G #68 SWC, but feeds everything else I put into it happily. Round count is now up around 1200 or so, and I like it.
To me a $1000 gun ought to come with a Dillon thrown in. But that's just me.
Don Robison
10-09-07, 22:36
I like the Colt 1991's both ORM and NRM. They are plain but you have a high quality foundation to build on.
That's what I did also. A 1991A1 Commander. Stripped it to frame and slide. Had installed Ed Brown parts, C&S FCG, VZ320 grips and Heinie Straight 8 sights then covered it in black Duracote.
Over on 10-8, there is a thread where Dean Caputo talks about the 1911's his department issues to all their officers. They get stock NIB Series 70's. All Dean does to them is to add night sights, tunes the extractor, bobs the hammer and issues them with Wilson or CMC mags. It is also interesting that several of the moderators there feel that the current Colt series 70 Repro's are currently the best made 1911's available in terms of small parts and quality of the frame and slide. I have heard this from several of the smiths at www.Louderthanwords.us
10-8 thread
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=55226&page=&fpart=1&vc=1
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.