View Full Version : Two simple questions
1) Is there a simple test to make certain that my M4 is properly back together? With the 1911, after a thorough cleaning, I operate the slide, insert a pencil into the barrel and pull the trigger, the pencil comes flying out and I know it is reassembled properly. I also check the grip and thumb safeties. It turns out that my local gunsmith also uses the pencil test. Anyhow, is there a similar test for function of the AR? I did my first reassembly of the BCG and it looks to me like the firing pin is not correct. Should any of it protrude from the firing pin tunnel? Since there is no spring, what causes it to retract??
2)Is there a simple way to improve the trigger on the Colt 6920, or does it require a trigger job by a gunsmith? Or does it get a little better after being shot a lot? I put a little oil on the springs and surfaces prior to my last range trip, and it seems a little better. Is that all I can do or is there a "fluff and buff" for the AR?
1) No. LET'S TRY AND STEER HIM TO THE LIGHT.
http://www.google.com/search?q=ar-15+function+check&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
2) Yes. Get out the dremel. Based on my internet readings I assume they cost 25 cents. With your 25 cent dremel you are ready to do a trigger job.
Do a search for AR function check. The most critical thing when reassembling the bcg is that the cam pin is re-installed correctly.
The firing pin is free floating and as such, it will protrude from the bolt face. It retracts when it makes contact with the primer as a round is chambered; its normal to have slight primer indentations from chambering rounds.
Anyone offering to do a "trigger job" on an AR is full of shit. The fcg's in colts are usually pretty smooth, if it bothers you, there are a wide variety of drop-in, aftermarket triggers available.
1) Is there a simple test to make certain that my M4 is properly back together? With the 1911, after a thorough cleaning, I operate the slide, insert a pencil into the barrel and pull the trigger, the pencil comes flying out and I know it is reassembled properly. I also check the grip and thumb safeties. It turns out that my local gunsmith also uses the pencil test. Anyhow, is there a similar test for function of the AR? I did my first reassembly of the BCG and it looks to me like the firing pin is not correct. Should any of it protrude from the firing pin tunnel? Since there is no spring, what causes it to retract??
2)Is there a simple way to improve the trigger on the Colt 6920, or does it require a trigger job by a gunsmith? Or does it get a little better after being shot a lot? I put a little oil on the springs and surfaces prior to my last range trip, and it seems a little better. Is that all I can do or is there a "fluff and buff" for the AR?
Belmont31R
04-04-11, 23:12
Yes do a functions check.
Don't modify your stock trigger. If you want an improved trigger I recommend a drop in trigger like the Geissele. Several different models based on intended use, user preference, ect. Theres several long running threads on Geissele triggers, and they are pretty popular here for a drop in replacement.
While you are at it obtain a copy of a military TM on the M4/M16. It will give you lots of information. RTFM.
ARs have a free floating firing pin. They will not fire out of battery. The bolt has to be in the forward locked position to expose the firing pin.
You should not be using a weapon you don't understand the basic operation of. This is how accidents happen.
Google a copy of TM 9-1005-319-10&P. MEMORIZE IT.
1) No. There is no way to check the function of the rifle without shooting at a live person.
http://www.google.com/search?q=ar-15+function+check&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
2) Yes. Get out the dremel. Based on my internet readings I assume they cost 25 cents. With your 25 cent dremel you are ready to do a trigger job.
There is no place for this kind of crap here.
1) Is there a simple test to make certain that my M4 is properly back together? With the 1911, after a thorough cleaning, I operate the slide, insert a pencil into the barrel and pull the trigger, the pencil comes flying out and I know it is reassembled properly. I also check the grip and thumb safeties. It turns out that my local gunsmith also uses the pencil test. Anyhow, is there a similar test for function of the AR? I did my first reassembly of the BCG and it looks to me like the firing pin is not correct. Should any of it protrude from the firing pin tunnel? Since there is no spring, what causes it to retract??
2)Is there a simple way to improve the trigger on the Colt 6920, or does it require a trigger job by a gunsmith? Or does it get a little better after being shot a lot? I put a little oil on the springs and surfaces prior to my last range trip, and it seems a little better. Is that all I can do or is there a "fluff and buff" for the AR?
Yosel,
As stated above the Army FM, which can be downloaded as a .pdf is your friend has has a ton of useful information about your new platform. Read it, understand it, apply it. I would also recommend that you download a copy of the USMC M16/M4 Marksmanship Manual from http://www.scribd.com/doc/344690/M16-Rifle-Marksmanship There is useful information in that publication too.
As for a basic functions check follow these instructions,
SAFE
Pull the charging handle to the rear and release. Place the selector on SAFE. Pull the trigger, and the hammer should not fall.
SEMI
Place the selector on SEMI. Pull the trigger and hold to the rear. The hammer should fall. Continue to hold the trigger to the rear, pull the charging handle to the rear, and release it, Release the trigger with a slow, smooth motion until the trigger is fully forward. The hammer should not fall. Pull the trigger. The hammer should fall.
Good luck, and welcome to M4C, please search through and read the old threads here, there is a ton of useful info.
Ken
There is no place for this kind of crap here.
Right, but there is plenty of room for asking simple questions that could be easily discovered with a simple search...because of course you get to jump on these stupid, simple questions and inflate your post count. Here is an easy search, by the way...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&biw=1680&bih=833&q=god+damn+ar-15+malfunction&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
Which would have eventually led him to discovering what a function check is.
1650 posts in two years...care to make a bet with me what percentage of your posts are valuable? 68 posts per month...I doubt you have anywhere near that quantity of information to share.
Now continue wiping his ass for him. Warm the wet wipe before you apply it, and don't forget to wipe the taint front to rear.
C'mon guys. I know this is simple shit, but we also need to try and steer them in the right direction. Hopefully the OP will realize that he needs to seek out some help and learn the function of his weapon.
C'mon guys. I know this is simple shit, but we also need to try and steer them in the right direction. Hopefully the OP will realize that he needs to seek out some help and learn the function of his weapon.
Here's the way I see it.
This site already contains far, far more information than any new guy could ever use. He has everything he needs to learn about the platform, how it functions, and what constitutes a quality rifle.
Those are a newbies requirements. Anything beyond that is just internet masturbation. Like someone else brilliantly put it...
"Arguing with them is like arguing with a virgin over whether redhead or brunette pussy is superior."
It may seem minor now...but where will it be in 5 years? 10 years?
If someone asks a legitimate question that isn't easily discovered on your own...then by all means, lets help him out. If he asks what "barrel twist" means or what M4 feedramps are...direct him to google and lock the thread.
The internet is endless. If this site becomes a nursemaid for lazy people, it will never, ever end. It is far easier to plug the hole in the dike with your finger than it is to hold back the flood with your hands. I personally would enjoy seeing the mods walking around screaming and carrying a baseball bat. Ignorance isn't shameful...laziness and the desire to be spoonfed common, easily obtained information is.
But I get the hint, and I'll shut up.
RTA,
I hear ya. But we have to temper the iron fist with a love glove sometimes. :D
Here's the way I see it.
This site already contains far, far more information than any new guy could ever use. He has everything he needs to learn about the platform, how it functions, and what constitutes a quality rifle.
Those are a newbies requirements. Anything beyond that is just internet masturbation. Like someone else brilliantly put it...
"Arguing with them is like arguing with a virgin over whether redhead or brunette pussy is superior."
It may seem minor now...but where will it be in 5 years? 10 years?
If someone asks a legitimate question that isn't easily discovered on your own...then by all means, lets help him out. If he asks what "barrel twist" means or what M4 feedramps are...direct him to google and lock the thread.
The internet is endless. If this site becomes a nursemaid for lazy people, it will never, ever end. It is far easier to plug the hole in the dike with your finger than it is to hold back the flood with your hands. I personally would enjoy seeing the mods walking around screaming and carrying a baseball bat. Ignorance isn't shameful...laziness and the desire to be spoonfed common, easily obtained information is.
But I get the hint, and I'll shut up.
Googling everything is a two edge sword. For instance, google “homemade AR trigger job” and you will get all kinds of advice on how to potently screw up your trigger. Ask here and you will get the correct answer, leave it alone.
1)
2)Is there a simple way to improve the trigger on the Colt 6920, or does it require a trigger job by a gunsmith? Or does it get a little better after being shot a lot? I put a little oil on the springs and surfaces prior to my last range trip, and it seems a little better. Is that all I can do or is there a "fluff and buff" for the AR?
The trigger on mine got dramatically better after only 100 rounds. There was a substantial amount of creep when it was brand new. The creep is 95% gone but it is still a heavy trigger. I don't have a gauge, but using my target guns as a reference; I would guess 7lbs. So I intend to replace it.
I also put a drop of oil on the sear.
RTA,
we have to temper the iron fist with a love glove sometimes. :D
Anyone else nearly choke on their breakfast after reading this one? :p
2)Is there a simple way to improve the trigger on the Colt 6920, or does it require a trigger job by a gunsmith?
No. Get used to it or spring for a Geissele.
Don't send it to Bruce Springstein or whoever to get the hack job done to your parts. They're surface hardened and can't be modified very easily without ruining them.
No. Get used to it or spring for a Geissele.
Don't send it to Bruce Springstein or whoever to get the hack job done to your parts. They're surface hardened and can't be modified very easily without ruining them.
I have no experience with this guy but I know who you mean. Couldn't he or anyone doing a "trigger job" re-surface harden the trigger? I have always wondered this when this topic comes up.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=119479
Couldn't he or anyone doing a "trigger job" re-surface harden the trigger? I have always wondered this when this topic comes up.
I think they'd have to refinish the part for it to look presentable.
Athirst5IoN
04-05-11, 12:28
Googling everything is a two edge sword. For instance, google “homemade AR trigger job” and you will get all kinds of advice on how to potently screw up your trigger. Ask here and you will get the correct answer, leave it alone.
^^ I agree! I see what RTA is saying (even though I admit - I am a newb), but I have often times been led astray by what I find on google (eventually led back to the light by these forums).
For instance, I was looking into getting a Beretta px4 Storm for my Dad (he mentioned he wanted one). Everything I read from google searching made me think it was an awesome fire arm. It was not until I searched through this forum when I found out all the issues with it and with the rotating barrel.
I try not to ask to many newb questions on here, but I've come to the point where I mainly search through here and if I don't find it I ask about it (let's just say I don't trust some of the other sources out there). Needless to say, thanks to all the guys on here that know their stuff... I'm continuing to learn alot from you.
Anyone else nearly choke on their breakfast after reading this one? :p
Yup!:laugh:
Bill Springfield simply works on the trigger sent to him. If the case hardening is thin, that's your lookout. Triggers are not case hardened after stoning and as far as I know, they aren't refinished. After all, who's going to see it?
Trigger work is a little understood art. Done right, improvements can be felt without compromising reliability. Human nature being what it is, most go for the best feel possible and stone too much. According to posts on this site, the case hardening on stock AR triggers is already thin to begin with.
After reading several threads about triggers here, I've come to the conclusion that stock AR triggers are crapola and only serve as place holders until a real trigger can be purchased and installed
I asked two simple questions and was looking for two simple answers. For the most part I received the information I was looking for in a courteous and friendly manner.
Unfortunately, the simple questions were also answered by a a rude simpleton who himself is a relative newbie and has a fowl mouth. I choose to ignore him and hope that the Mods do something about him.
I know how to do Google searches as well as searches of a forum, but as has already been mentioned, sometimes asking a question in a new thread is the best way to receive a direct authoritative answer.
I am sorry if the simplicity of the questions offended some of you but, "if you don't ask, you don't know".
As for being familiar with the weapon, I turned my last one in 42 years ago when I DEROSed back from Viet Nam. At that time it was an M-16 not an M-4. Maybe I'm on the wrong forum.:p
Stick around, the place grows on you, as does the "ignore" button for certain posters. It can really clean up a thread or two and make them readable.
I would not send a trigger to Springfield. I had one of his trigger jobs. It doubled. I threw it in the trash.
Subsequently I read an AAR of someone's face-to-face dealings with him and it cemented my opinion.
Not trying to pick on you at all. But, most manuals that come with the weapons cover things like this.
In addition if you go online and simply search for M16 operator manual you will find multiple sources many are even downloadable.
Finally if it has been 42 years since you turned in your weappon, you may want to seek some refresher training from competent persons in your area.
I wouldn't be concerned about the trigger at this point. I would focus on getting reacquainted with your weapon and becoming proficient. The 6920 isn't a match weapon. It's a service type weapon and after some practice you'll get used to the trigger again.
I asked two simple questions and was looking for two simple answers. For the most part I received the information I was looking for in a courteous and friendly manner.
Unfortunately, the simple questions were also answered by a a rude simpleton who himself is a relative newbie and has a fowl mouth. I choose to ignore him and hope that the Mods do something about him.
I know how to do Google searches as well as searches of a forum, but as has already been mentioned, sometimes asking a question in a new thread is the best way to receive a direct authoritative answer.
I am sorry if the simplicity of the questions offended some of you but, "if you don't ask, you don't know".
As for being familiar with the weapon, I turned my last one in 42 years ago when I DEROSed back from Viet Nam. At that time it was an M-16 not an M-4. Maybe I'm on the wrong forum.:p
I know how to do Google searches as well as searches of a forum, but as has already been mentioned, sometimes asking a question in a new thread is the best way to receive a direct authoritative answer.
Maybe I'm on the wrong forum.:p
I'm not supporting his response to you, and I'm not telling you to leave, but you may be right.
'Round here the unwillingness to research a topic oneself from the tons of available information is often going to come across as being an indicator of "special flower" mentality. What you posted above comes across as a very good indicator of such a mentality. "yeah, I know the information is there for the taking but I can't be bothered to look it up myself" is not generally viewed favorably here.
Not trying to pick on you at all. But, most manuals that come with the weapons cover things like this.
In addition if you go online and simply search for M16 operator manual you will find multiple sources many are even downloadable.
Finally if it has been 42 years since you turned in your weappon, you may want to seek some refresher training from competent persons in your area.
I wouldn't be concerned about the trigger at this point. I would focus on getting reacquainted with your weapon and becoming proficient. The 6920 isn't a match weapon. It's a service type weapon and after some practice you'll get used to the trigger again.
Good advice.
Also, you answered your own first question when you brought up the 1911. A 6920 function test follows the same logic as a function test for a 1911. The function test is the same as it was 42 years ago. The M4 is not so different from an M16.
The only thing that is different from 1969 and today is that you should disregard any Viet Nam era "self cleaning" doctorine about not lubing and cleaning you weapon. Lube is a good thing. The TM will show you where and how much to do it. There is also a great bit of info here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=61505
For the trigger, just practice with it. The standard trigger isn't that bad on a Colt.
The standard trigger isn't that bad on a Colt.
I agree. Some are worse, and some are better. But I've never felt that the standard trigger was that bad for the job it's intended to do.
Silence is sometimes golden, so I will thank all of those with positive input and ignore the rest.
It is not worth arguing about some of these responses and reading them is becoming irritating as hell.
I have generally found this Board to be informative and relatively polite. Apparently there are exceptions.
I take part in three handgun forums and questions ( especially from newer members) are usually handled as a teaching/learning process with a welcoming attitude rather than an oppurtunity to insult and lecture. I guess in the future I'll just do more reading here and keep my questions to myself. Even the strictest 1911 forum, with all of its rules and penalties, is more welcoming to members with questions.
"Nuff" said
Silence is sometimes golden, so I will thank all of those with positive input and ignore the rest.
It is not worth arguing about some of these responses and reading them is becoming irritating as hell.
I have generally found this Board to be informative and relatively polite. Apparently there are exceptions.
I take part in three handgun forums and questions ( especially from newer members) are usually handled as a teaching/learning process with a welcoming attitude rather than an oppurtunity to insult and lecture. I guess in the future I'll just do more reading here and keep my questions to myself. Even the strictest 1911 forum, with all of its rules and penalties, is more welcoming to members with questions.
"Nuff" said
I like your passive aggressive style.
There is no "bad information" to be found on google concerning a function check. It is what it is.
If you're on 1911 forums, then by now you should know that if you have to ask how to modify your trigger, you shouldn't touch it.
Unless you have a dremel.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.