Slip-2000 Carbon Cutter: Attack of the Green Residue!

[Rmplstlskn]

OK, I'm in a rant mood now that some Slip-2000 Carbon KILLER took some of the finish off of my XDm barrel... WTF! :confused:

I usually use M-Pro7, have for YEARS with no issues, but I ran out and a lot of local Black Rifle guys told me to try the Slip-2000 Carbon Killer, so I bought some. Got to use it for the first time tonight on my XDm pistol and my wife's AR.

Besides the crappy removal of carbon, as I was using a USGI bristle brush on the breech face of my XDm barrel to remove the carbon the "carbon cutter" wasn't cutting, I noticed the finish getting lighter... This was only after a few minutes of soak left over from the patch insertion... I rinsed the barrel off with the water hose and noticed some of the finish on the breech and around the sides of the breech area had some of the finish removed... What a CRAPPY product!@!!! (I also noticed other older Copper Cutter rants here)

I should take a picture and send it to them... A few minutes of contact time shouldn't do this... But it left most of the CARBON though... :suicide2: What a POS product!

No parkerization removal on the AR, but it did a crappy job in "cutting carbon" on the AR as well... And after I had bore snake'd it and had it lightly oiled and ready for the safe, I see this FUNKY FLUORESCENT GREEN RESIDUE on the crown of my AR muzzle hidden back inside the Vortex FS... :mad: I am now HATING this stuff!

So I disassemble the what I thought to be clean AR again and try to get a brush and some patches up into the Vortex hole to remove this green funk (that does not look good for long-term finish care :rolleyes:). What a PITA... Some work with the Slip-2000 725 (seems to be a good product, very much like the M-Pro7 stuff) and creative brush work I removed the green goop. I bore-snake it again and re-assemble...

Needless to say, I can't believe Slip-2000 even sells this crap... My M-Pro7 bore cleaner works 1000 times better than this crap. I am throwing this crap away and I could care less if Slip-2000 is about to come out with its IMPROVED "Carbon KILLER..." Well I have a almost new XDm barrel with some finish removed, so NO FRAKING THANKS...

And please don't turn this into a XD/XDM bash hijack... My finish on my XD's and XDM were fine before this Slip-2000 bull-shite...

Rant over...

Rmpl

[OTO27]

Its "carbon cutter" not "bore cleaner"

[scoutfsu99]

I'm curious to see some pictures. I've used it on SAW's, 240's, M4's, M9's, personal AR's and never had a single problem.

[Rmplstlskn]

Its "carbon cutter" not "bore cleaner"

From the Slip-2000 web site smarty pants...


May be used in chambers and barrels as a bore cleaner. (http://www.slip2000.com/carboncutter.html)

Jeezz...

Rmpl

[OTO27]

From the Slip-2000 web site smarty pants...



Jeezz...

Rmpl

I know it "can" be used, but nothing works better than an actual bore cleaner. Its intende purpose is more of a general cleaner for parts like your bolt/carrier assembly and such things.

[Rmplstlskn]

I know it "can" be used, but nothing works better than an actual bore cleaner. Its intende purpose is more of a general cleaner for parts like your bolt/carrier assembly and such things.

Are you referring to the Slip-2000 "COPPER CUTTER?" That is the only product THEY MAKE, besides the carbon killer that mentions anything about BORE CLEANING...

In the past, before I ran out, I was using Hoppe's Elite/M-PRO7 Bore Cleaner... I was told by others to use Carbon Cutter... I'm have another big bottle of M-Pro7 on order now and the "Carbon Crapper" is in the can...

Rmpl

[OTO27]

So far the best bore cleaner I have found is Break free's foaming stuff. The best thing about it is that it can be had at my local Wall Mart.

[mtdawg169]

I recently switched from Carbon Cutter to M-Pro 7 due to its lackluster performance on my AR bolts. It will definitely strip any trace of lube from your parts, but it seems to do little else.

[outrider627]

IIRC there was a similar thread someone made about green residue and a cleaning product a while back. I believe its a side effect from using regular bronze brushes. You might want to do a search for it.

[wahoo95]

Non-Chlorinated Brake Cleaner....$2.00 at Walmart and does an excellent job on Carbon.

[Heavy Metal]

The green on the flash hider is Cupric Oxide. AKA oxidized copper. Vaporized bits of jacket material embedded in the carbon.

[Chameleox]

I recently switched from Carbon Cutter to M-Pro 7 due to its lackluster performance on my AR bolts. It will definitely strip any trace of lube from your parts, but it seems to do little else.
I've noticed this as well. It almost felt and looked like it stripped any finish off of my bolt and carrier; almost like a bare metal effect. Wasn't happy enough with it. I finished the jar, and I won't order any more. I've been using only Slip's degreaser and lube; excellent combination.

As a side note, I used to make a habit of putting all my small AR parts in a styrofoam bowl with a small amount of cleaner when cleaning after a range session. I tried this with the Carbon Cutter; it ate through the bowl. Cool to watch, messy to clean up.

[Rmplstlskn]

IIRC there was a similar thread someone made about green residue and a cleaning product a while back. I believe its a side effect from using regular bronze brushes. You might want to do a search for it.

The bore snake does have two metal brushes embedded in them (brass or bronze, I don't know), but the green residue was from just patches run through breech to muzzle with barrel tilted down towards muzzle on stand... The green residue must have come from the cleaner being pushed out with the patch... or from the BRASS jag.

Rmpl

[Rmplstlskn]

The green on the flash hider is Cupric Oxide. AKA oxidized copper. Vaporized bits of jacket material embedded in the carbon.

Thanks for the Science Guy answer... Makes sense...

I wonder if I didn't notice it and it sat in the safe for a month or two (wife's AR), if it would mess up the crown or muzzle at all...

Rmpl

[Rmplstlskn]

Non-Chlorinated Brake Cleaner....$2.00 at Walmart and does an excellent job on Carbon.

Yep, I'm going back to M-Pro7, n-c brake cleaner, compressed air...

Rmpl

[ZRH]

Yep, I'm going back to M-Pro7, n-c brake cleaner, compressed air...

Rmpl

Yeah, Brake Cleaner is the best. -.-

[ALCOAR]

Mpro7/Hoppes Elite is the perfect cleaner...non toxic, vapor-less, cleans while you don't....has a compounding effect making future cleanings much easier. I have been using it for several yrs. and don't foresee that changing anytime soon.

[vicious_cb]

Thats what happens when you buy a low quality pistol like an XD. I soak my M&P barrel in a jar of carbon cutter to loosen up the carbon, never had it remove finish before.

[scottryan]

Carbon Cutter will remove some finish. It will also turn parkerizing light gray.

[wetidlerjr]

Non-Chlorinated Brake Cleaner....$2.00 at Walmart and does an excellent job on Carbon.

Yes, it does and you can't beat the price. :D

[Rmplstlskn]

Mpro7/Hoppes Elite is the perfect cleaner...non toxic, vapor-less, cleans while you don't....has a compounding effect making future cleanings much easier. I have been using it for several yrs. and don't foresee that changing anytime soon.

That's what I get for chugging a good dose of Slip-2000 Kool-Aid... :lazy2:

Rmpl

[Rmplstlskn]

Yeah, Brake Cleaner is the best. -.-

And to think I was un-enlightened for using it for so many years with all the "wonder-water" products out now days... I'm glad to see others like brute-force carbon blasting with brake cleaner... It does work so good, don't it?

Rmpl

[Markasaurus]

To remove carbon i already tried: brake cleaner, CLP, MPro 7 or whatever its called, and acetone.
Brake cleaner is cheap and works great for just oil and grease, and flushing out the lower receiver, but it has no effect whatsoever on the carbon on the bolt tail, or inside the bolt carrier group bolt hole recess. And this is while cleaning a new gun with only 300 rounds through it mind you.

Finally i read some posts from people who recommend the following (a variant of the "ed's red" mexture)
odorless mineral spirits (cost me $5 for a gallon at Home depot), acetone, and an ounce of CLP. The mineral spirits were the cheapest, also the most effective at soaking carbon, so i mixed about 70/29 mineral spirits/acetone with the CLP dumped in. (From the "Ed's red" mix i just totally skipped adding the ATF, i did not want to fool around for half an hour getting off an oily red mess from my parts.)

(If all the CLP you have is in a spray can, just spray into a small container and then dump that in. I often refill my small non aerosol CLP bottles like this).

I soaked my bolt carrier and bolt parts in this mix and also make another container to soak the flash hider and muzzle in, butt end up of course. The idea of adding the CLP is that it prevents making the parts bone dry and leaches some lubricant in the cracks also. You are going to wipe clean or blow out the parts anyway so there's no chance of too much clp on the parts this method. Then relube with your grease/oil of choice.

I also use the g and g carbon scraper tool for the bolt tail after soaking the bolt. If you buy this tool from g and g tools, i recommend it but you do not need the expensive one, only the $20 one that has only the scraper blade. You can do the final clean that the $30 one does with $3 worth of scotch brite pads cut into two inch wide strips (you can make about 20 strips from one set of scotch brite pads, probably a lifetime supply.)

[davidjinks]

Trying not to be captain obvious here...

Did you happen to read the recommendations and warnings on the bottle about possible finish removal while using this product?

I just bought some of this stuff a couple weeks ago to try it out. It says directly on the bottle about possible damage to finishes.

I've never used this product before (Haven't had enough range time to warrant the use) nor do I have anything to gain by boosting Slip...but it's kind of lame to bash a product, especially when it directly states that this might happen.

EDITED TO ADD: It's the first sentence in the warning. You must not have followed the directions properly.

[ALCOAR]

That's what I get for chugging a good dose of Slip-2000 Kool-Aid... :lazy2:

Rmpl

Check out these bolts that had just been cleaned.....All I did was thoroughly spray/soak them down w. hoppes elite....waited about 1hr....went over lightly w. a toothbrush...spray them out one more time w. the hoppes elite....dry them off...and Puff:)

http://i52.tinypic.com/2ngarnl.jpg

It's a little pricey but it cleans everything so well it's a jack of all trades. A small can of CLP tops my cleaning kit off 9/10 times.

[40Arpent]

Mpro7/Hoppes Elite is the perfect cleaner...

Call me clueless, but I don't get the "MPro7/Hoppes Elite" part....do you mix them, or are they one in the same?

[Rmplstlskn]

Call me clueless, but I don't get the "MPro7/Hoppes Elite" part....do you mix them, or are they one in the same?

They are one and the same product... Hoppes bought it and it is commonly found as Hoppes Elite, but the product under the name M-Pro7 can still be found... I just do the combo so people know what I am referencing...

Rmpl

[40Arpent]

Thanks Rmpl, I was not aware of that. I have been using MPro7 for quite some time now. I also have a bottle of Hoppes Elite that I haven't tried yet. LOL

[Rmplstlskn]

CORRECTION: My post is about the NEW CARBON KILLER, not the older Carbon CUTTER in my original post. Got the names mixed up... Just checked my bottle in the trash...

The new and improved Carbon KILLER does not impresss me in the least... And it is labeled, right on the bottle, as "Carbon Killer BORE Cleaner"...

Rmpl

[markm]

Carbon Cutter sucks too.

I've literally soaked a silencer mount in that crap for an hour and then ran the mount in the useless juice in an ultrasonic cleaner and couldn't get it to remove anything.

I've made the carbon cutter mistake twice now.

[cacop]

We use it at work with pretty good results. Some finishes are more resistant to it than others. I will also use mineral spirits after the green goo to wash it away to avoid finish damage. Of course since mineral spirits takes oil off I am very sure to relube. I usually only go to all these steps as part of the yearly cleaning/inspection or when our pool guns get used in training.

[Littlelebowski]

Yet another case of damage from cleaning.

What exact performance or maintenance gains do you think you were getting?

Non chlorinated brake cleaner and an old toothbrush, relube. Don't ****ing worry about pretty, worry about function.

[militarymoron]

CORRECTION: My post is about the NEW CARBON KILLER, not the older Carbon CUTTER in my original post. Got the names mixed up... Just checked my bottle in the trash...


carbon killer is the old carbon cutter coloured green and relabeled. it worked okay for me (i soaked stuff in it), but mpro7 works better, and that's what i've used for years.
trying out froglube now, to see if it lives up to the hype.