View Full Version : Sig Enthusiasts...need your advice.
I'm in the market for a new handgun and I still don't have a Sig so I need some help.
First, I don't really have the option of going down to the range and test firing some Sigs...I live 2 hours away from the nearest range that I can demo and just don't have the time.
I've only shot one Sig and that was a couple years ago. I can't recall which model it was, but at the time I was looking for a new 9mm, so I'm going to guess it was the 226.
A little about what handguns I own and my likes and dislikes for each...in not such great detail. Hopefully this will help in any recommendations one might have for my new purchase.
HK USPc 9mm V3
I really love this handgun because it was my first. It's comfortable to hold and grip. The balance is nice. It's a little snappy in recoil for me and the trigger in my opinion is a little long in reset. I don't shoot this all that accurately, I don't know why, I never have. But, this being my first handgun, I'll always keep it.
HK P7 PSP
This is by far the nicest 9mm I've shot. It points extremely well, is very comfortable and balanced and is very very accurate. I love the trigger on this gun.
Dan Wesson Valor
Dan Wesson VBOB
I group these guys together because they are the only 1911's I've shot and own. What can I say about these handguns? Way more accurate then I could ever be. The triggers are both excellent, but the VBOB trigger is surreal. I prefer the balance and weight of the shorter barreled VBOB. They both point so well.
Smith & Wesson M&P 45
I own the midsize 4" barrel and really like this handgun. I've only got about 500 rounds through it so the trigger is still a bit gritty and from what I understand, it will work itself out more. It's much better than it was when it was new. I'll most likely get the Apex Sear trigger done in the future. It's probably the most comfortable gun I own in my hands. It just fits like a glove. It's accurate and reliable...nothing real fancy, but just a solid HD gun that shoots very nice.
Of all the guns mentioned, I love my VBOB. It has the best trigger, obviously and i'm very very accurate with it. The balance is perfect for me. Second would be my P7. I just love shooting this gun. It just seems like an extension of my hand and it probably points the best of all my guns. It's the least snappiest 9mm I've ever shot.
FYI, I prefer 45 acp and 9mm. I've never really cared for the .40 S&W. and don't really need an in between caliber for a handgun. Ammo is already too expensive. I hope I've provided enough info to spur some conversation.
Thanks in advance everyone.
I have a 229 in .40 & a 220. I really prefer the feel of the 220, but that's just my opinion.
dookie1481
04-05-11, 00:05
Is this for collecting or shooting? If the former, then a P7 is a great choice. If the latter, then not so much unless you get two of them. They get too hot to shoot pretty quickly.
Is this for collecting or shooting? If the former, then a P7 is a great choice. If the latter, then not so much unless you get two of them. They get too hot to shoot pretty quickly.
Sorry dookie, I think maybe you misread my post or perhaps I didn't articulate it very well.
I own all the guns in bold print and have explained my likes and dislikes for each one in hopes that someone with experience with these guns and Sigs can give me an idea of which Sig I would feel most comfortable with.
I'm looking to add a Sig to my collection but don't have the time and resources to drive 2 hours and demo at the range. So, unfortunately I'll be buying without being able to shoot. I know most people would suggest otherwise and I would agree most of the time, but I'm comfortable in the fact that if I absolutely dislike my purchase, I can always sell and move on.
The Sig will most likely just be a shooter as I'm not looking for a safe queen.
I did have the chance to shoot a Sig a couple years ago, as I stated above, I think it was the 226. The only thing that I remember was I really liked the trigger.
FWIW, I'll be buying used and will be looking for a German made Sig. I've heard and read enough about Sig's QC recently that I'd rather not risk the hassle...I hear good and bad things about Sigs current production. I hear nothing but good about older German made Sigs...that's enough for me to buy used.
Sorry for any confusion.
SeaSoldier
04-05-11, 06:52
I never really cared for Sig's until I tried a friends Bruce Gray worked over P225. Now I'm on the prowl for a mint 225 or P6 and will send it down to Spray Oregon for some Grayguns goodness.
I'm a huge fan of the P22X pistols. I feel that my P226s are perfect, for me. It sounds like you're leaning towards the 9mm (not 100% clear from your post) then the P226 is a great choice. It balances really well in my hand and is extremely reliable and accurate. I've carried a P226 everyday for the last 12 years, 90% of the time concealed.
Of course if you're looking at .45 ACP, there's the P220, same frame, similar feel (heavier), same reliability and accuracy, bigger boom.
I know you said that your closest shop is 2 hours away, but you really do owe it to yourself to check these out in person. What works for me may not work for you. What's 5 hours of your time when you're going to spend $900 or more on a handgun? Especially if it may save your life.
I have a Sig p226 SCT that I have owned for a little over two years now. I had a rocky start to my ownership of the pistol that required being sent back to Sig after the first range trip for having the wrong slide catch installed from the factory. I will say that Sig's customer service was second to none and I had no issues with getting the pistol repaired. After putting a few thousand rounds downrange I would now trust my life with it if need be. I like the trigger a lot, there is a fair amount of takeup but the SA break is very crisp. It balances very nicely in the hands too. My other pistols are Springfield XD's so having an aluminum frame pistol feels just slightly heavier but way more robust. One thing I dislike about the Sig are the two-piece grips that will shift ever so slightly inside of your hands. The SCT model comes with a TFO fiber optic/tritium front sight, but I may change it out to a traditional tritium sight since I have concerns of the fiber optic rod falling out.
All that being said, I wouldn't buy another current production Sig. There is something about buying a new pistol then having to send it back for repair right away, you lose a little bit of faith in the weapon. Since the repair and subsequent break in, it has been flawless.
I have a P226 and a P6. If you are only going to have one SIG and don't plan on making it a primary CCW, go with the 226.
If you plan on CCW, I'd get a P225 or a P228.
The 226 can be carried concealed, it's just kind of big.
dookie1481
04-05-11, 20:08
Sorry dookie, I think maybe you misread my post or perhaps I didn't articulate it very well.
I own all the guns in bold print and have explained my likes and dislikes for each one in hopes that someone with experience with these guns and Sigs can give me an idea of which Sig I would feel most comfortable with.
I'm looking to add a Sig to my collection but don't have the time and resources to drive 2 hours and demo at the range. So, unfortunately I'll be buying without being able to shoot. I know most people would suggest otherwise and I would agree most of the time, but I'm comfortable in the fact that if I absolutely dislike my purchase, I can always sell and move on.
The Sig will most likely just be a shooter as I'm not looking for a safe queen.
I did have the chance to shoot a Sig a couple years ago, as I stated above, I think it was the 226. The only thing that I remember was I really liked the trigger.
FWIW, I'll be buying used and will be looking for a German made Sig. I've heard and read enough about Sig's QC recently that I'd rather not risk the hassle...I hear good and bad things about Sigs current production. I hear nothing but good about older German made Sigs...that's enough for me to buy used.
Sorry for any confusion.
Yeah I'm a complete tard. Sorry about that.
JayHawker45
04-08-11, 13:52
I own a few Sigs, last count was 13. I enjoy each and every one. Based on you criteria, I'd recommend for concealed carry, in order, P220, P228 or P225.
The P220 and P225 are single stack pistols, both are easy to conceal. The P228 is one sweet pistol to carry, from my experience it is one of the best designed pistols I've shot and carried. It has an almost perfect balance facilitating a wickedly fast target acquisition.
Either way, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the "classic" P-series Sigs. Good luck in your search.
I've been a dedicated user of Sigs for the last 15yrs in Federal service. I'm also an armorer, and have worked on hundreds of Sigs of all ages.
My advice for a "shooting" Sig, is to buy a West German P226 or P228 9mm. You can find them in decent condition at guns shows, and on the internet. Simply put, new US made Sigs are not as good as their West German counterparts. A West German P220 .45 would be my 3rd choice. The .45s require more maintenance and TLC to keep them running well. The older 9mm Sigs were masterpieces of engineering.
For concealed carry I like the 225 (because it is 9mm. I like the 220 just fine, and had one for a good while, but I shoot only 9mm now). To me the p226 is the quintessential p-series pistol (in 9mm) and I love it. It is a bit bulky for concealed carry, but can be done with the right set-up. I am not going to get into the US-made vs German-made controversy as I don't own a US-made SIG, but my old German-made SIG is like the proverbial Timex...it just keeps ticking.
I have an older West German P220 from the mid 90's and it's my best performing handgun. With that said, I cannot recommend a current P220.
While at the range, a shooter next to me was shooting his P220 and after a few rounds, I heard a distinct crack that didn't sound right. I looked over and asked if he was ok. He showed me his Sig and the take down had broken. He also told me that the gun has less than 500 rounds down the pipe.
My 15+ year old P220 is still a tack driver after all these years, though.
If you can, get a West German Sig. I much rather take one of those than the ones made today
While at the range, a shooter next to me was shooting his P220 and after a few rounds, I heard a distinct crack that didn't sound right. I looked over and asked if he was ok. He showed me his Sig and the take down had broken. He also told me that the gun has less than 500 rounds down the pipe.
Unfortunatley, this is a very common story of newer US made Sigs. The engineering genius, quality controls, and materials just isn't in the same league as West German guns. Sig Sauer used to be a name that you equated with Heckler and Koch. The guns were expensive, but they were perfected combat handguns. With the W. German guns, you got a quality pistol right out of the box that was practically guarenteed to function perfectly as long as you followed the recommended service intervals every 5000rds. With the post 2005 US Sigs you are getting a pandora's box that may run okay, or may end up being a project gun that requires significant modification to keep it reliable and durable.
eternal24k
04-09-11, 11:38
whats your price limit?
Sig X-5 and P226SL would be the cream of the crop.
I have a W German P226 and a newer P228R, neither have ever failed me, the P226 has literally gone 6k without a single stoppage. I ordered a P226SL for a longterm range gun since i wanted to replicate the controls and size of my P226 for training purposes.
Thanks for all the responces everyone. I appreciate all the advice and recommendations. I agree with Sig's current production...hit or miss, no pun intended! That being said, I feel more comfortable purchasing a German made Sig and I no doubt believe that people have had positive experiences with their current production, but I don't feel like rolling the dice...there's no money in it! ;)
I'm going to keep my budget under $600...I feel like I can get a nice used German Sig in excellent condition with all original accessories for that and probably less, whether I go P226 or P220. Those were already high on my list and based on everyone's suggestions, I'll keep my eyes peeled. I wouldn't mind the P228 but I don't intend to carry this gun, just a shooter...unless I can find a really great deal. The P228 seems to command a higher price.
Thanks again for everyone's input.
I think there has been some great advice given on buying the west german made sigs etc. That being said, I bought a P229 .40 about 4 years ago and it has worked and ran flawlessly for thousands of rounds. I love the feel and accuracy of the gun, and carry mine almost daily. I've heard that Sig's quality has gone down, but both the newer Sigs I have have been nothing but perfect. I personally like the feel and size of the P229.
eternal24k
04-09-11, 13:49
I personally prefer the P226 over the P220, I have sold all of my P220s in favor of the 9mm flavors. There are also much more options for mags
I'm going to keep my budget under $600...I feel like I can get a nice used German Sig in excellent condition with all original accessories for that and probably less, whether I go P226 or P220. Those were already high on my list and based on everyone's suggestions, I'll keep my eyes peeled. I wouldn't mind the P228 but I don't intend to carry this gun, just a shooter...unless I can find a really great deal. The P228 seems to command a higher price.
The P228s are more expensive because they are less common on US soil. When SigArms of USA introduced the P229, they stopped importing the P228 into the US in large numbers and just standardized on the P229 production line in three calibers. It's a shame, because the P228 was lighter, and more balanced than the P229 9mm. Most of the P228s that you'll find at gun shows and the internet are police trade-ins.....but in relatively good condition. I bought a P228 at a gun show about a year ago that had rusted sights and lots of wear for $400. I cleaned off the rust, changed out the springs, and it ran flawlessly with tight groupings. One of the best Sigs I've ever had. Both the W. German P226 and P228 are great guns, but I like the versatility of the P228.
The W. German P220 .45 is also a great gun, if you don't mind servicing it every 5k rounds. That means replacing the springs and roll pins, and the magazine springs. The P220 is more finicky if you don't keep up on the service schedule.
I do like the idea of a versatile handgun, the p228 is now a contender. I'm convinced...I found this and it seems like a good deal, with the exception of no box or papers, but i'm not collecting for resale, I'm collecting for shooting...
Of course, when I decided I wanted to buy a Sig, my first instinct was to join the Sig forum and gather info...and there's of course the problems associated with joining this forum (email acct.). I'd be interested in this P228 but I can't join. Any help?
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/350601935/m/2870022742
Mods...sorry if I'm not allowed to post this link on here. And ask for help. I'm not sure. Please delete if necessary.
It seems like a decent deal to me. I was close to buying that particular gun (I've gotten the P228 bug recently), but I came across a slightly better deal.
SeaSoldier
04-09-11, 17:11
I just PM'd you the guys email address from the link you posted.
I just PM'd you the guys email address from the link you posted.
Thanks SeaSoldier, I just sent him an email. Very cool of you, I appreciate your help. :)
The price is a "little" much in my opinion, but it appears to be in very good condition. Also, if those are the German zipper backed magazines, those are some of the best overall mags you can get. H&K still uses the design.
The price is a "little" much in my opinion, but it appears to be in very good condition. Also, if those are the German zipper backed magazines, those are some of the best overall mags you can get. H&K still uses the design.
I agree with your comment. I think I've found a better deal but need some confirmation.
Thanks again everyone for all the help and advice.
I have a 229 now and have had a 228 in the past. I don't really find the balance to be an issue for me and as far as the weight I think the difference is only like 4 oz's. I love both guns and in the end you have to go with what feels best in your hand. Remember though, none will be as nice shooting or as cool as the P7(one of my favorites).
I have had a personal West German 226 9mm for eight years now. I love that gun. I bought it as a factory recondition. I shoot the hell out of it. Have never had any malfunctions with that gun that were not my fault. The only problem I have ever had with it was the fireing pin was sticking in the forward position. Somehow there was a dimple on the face of the breach block causing just enough friction on the fireing pin for it to stick. (No idea where the hell it came from) Had it reamed out and no problems since.
My work gun is a USA 226. No problems with it yet. Going on about nine months with it.
For carry, a P229. For range and HD, a P226. Very accurate and reliable pistols.
You might also want to look at the Sigpro Lineup. I came very close to buying a SP2022 earlier thus year but settled on a P7M8. The SP had an excellent trigger and overall was a very solid and well built pistol. I honestly feel this these don't get the attention that they deserve.
So, I stumbled upon what appears to be a nice P228. KC date code (1992) It has all the factory accessories including one 13 rd. factory mag and 3 Promags with new wolf springs and followers have been deburred. I know Promags are hit or miss but I figure the new wolf springs should solve most issues that are associated with these mags.
Cosmetically it appears to be in great shape, only wear I can see is on the front of the grip. It also comes with a Hogue grip, which I probably wont use. Other than the wear on the grip it looks excellent. I'm still waiting for some pics of the internals which he claims is excellent... but I'm thinking I might pull the trigger on this one.
$575.00 plus shipping. I'm new to Sig handguns so I'm not entirely sure if this is a fair deal. I could use some input on this. I don't mind waiting for something better, but if it's fair, I'll go for it.
What do you think guys?
eternal24k
04-11-11, 20:17
I dont buy Sigs without seeing the rails, it's amazing the difference of care does to anodizing, I have seen sigs with 1k look way worse than mine with 6k, grease over light crap oil. If the anodizing is too far gone it will wear rapidly
So, I stumbled upon what appears to be a nice P228. KC date code (1992) It has all the factory accessories including one 13 rd. factory mag and 3 Promags with new wolf springs and followers have been deburred. I know Promags are hit or miss but I figure the new wolf springs should solve most issues that are associated with these mags.
Cosmetically it appears to be in great shape, only wear I can see is on the front of the grip. It also comes with a Hogue grip, which I probably wont use. Other than the wear on the grip it looks excellent. I'm still waiting for some pics of the internals which he claims is excellent... but I'm thinking I might pull the trigger on this one.
$575.00 plus shipping. I'm new to Sig handguns so I'm not entirely sure if this is a fair deal. I could use some input on this. I don't mind waiting for something better, but if it's fair, I'll go for it.
What do you think guys?
The first one you posted looks like a better deal. Promags are utter crap. I'm also not a fan of buying a Sig that the the owner has put aftermarket grips on the gun. Grip screws are the weak point of the classic Sig design. When you take then in and out over and over again, you run the risk of stripping them out or at least weakening the threads if you aren't careful. The P229 .40/.357 have the thinnest frame walls, and thus the weakest threads. The P226 and P228(and P229 9mm) models have the next thinnest frame walls, and the P220s have the thickest frame walls. I usually tighten them down just a little and use blue loctite to handle vibrations. Other things to look for is excessive wear on the rails, or cracking. Another clue, is the firing pin position pin(roll pin) on the slide. The larger pin should have the gap pointed to the 12 o'clock, and the smaller(inner pin) pin should have the gap pointed to the 6 o'clock. This is an indicator of whether the last person who worked on it knew what they were doing. Incorrect positioning can result in the firing pin hanging up.
Thanks eternal24k and KhanRad.
Hmmm...now you've both got me thinking hard about my decision. The first Sig I posted did have some wear on the rails...I went back to that post and looked more carefully at the pics and he highlighted some of the wear on the rails. It's still for sale there...seems like if it was worth it, someone there would have snagged it up.
I still haven't got the pics of the internals on this current one I'm looking at...which is strange because he sent me photos of the rest of the gun right away this morning and said he was going to send the internals on a seperate email.
Maybe I should just post a WTB on this forum and perhaps I can get a trusted seller that will shoot me straight. Now I'm second guessing. :confused:
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Thanks eternal24k and KhanRad.
Hmmm...now you've both got me thinking hard about my decision. The first Sig I posted did have some wear on the rails...I went back to that post and looked more carefully at the pics and he highlighted some of the wear on the rails. It's still for sale there...seems like if it was worth it, someone there would have snagged it up.
I still haven't got the pics of the internals on this current one I'm looking at...which is strange because he sent me photos of the rest of the gun right away this morning and said he was going to send the internals on a seperate email.
Maybe I should just post a WTB on this forum and perhaps I can get a trusted seller that will shoot me straight. Now I'm second guessing. :confused:
Thanks for the feedback guys.
It's hard to tell the level of wear from photos. Rail wear, is NORMAL. Rubbing steel on a blackened aluminum surface will turn it silver. What you need to worry about, is cracking, scratches, or gouges. These things will eat away at the rails, and make them more prone to cracking. I rarely see any significant rail problems though from older guns. The condition of the first gun you posted looks excellent, and I'd personally snatch it up if I were in the market for another P228.
Well it looks like you have your heart set on the p228 so i cant be much help here. I personally own a 226 - 9mm and a 229 - 40cal.
I have also owned the sig pro - 40 in the past. I love all three of them so far but enjoy my 226 probably the most.
I have not handle the 228, as shooting goes, but its still a great firearm. As with most shops/people you either love sig or hate it. So I have heard from local shop owners how much they hate the 228 and all sigs for that matter, and also have talked to another shop owner who uses his for his carry gun, and wont shut up about it.
Anyways, great gun, decent price. But i do agree with the previous posts about rail wear, cracking ect. Also i believe it was Nut'n Fancy who talked about one of the p2 series and mention the recoil spring. About how they are rated for 6k rounds and after that they need to be replaced. I have put well over 6k rounds through my sig with no problems. A buddy of mine, competition shooter, changed his as 10k just because he wanted to. In the end, 228 is a fine choice and judging by what you own already, im sure you'll love it and turn into a sig whore.
/end rant
eternal24k
04-12-11, 07:53
http://grayguns.com/guide-to-sig-sauer-pistol-inspection/
I personally do not care if grips are different, chances are they have been removed at one point.
http://grayguns.com/guide-to-sig-sauer-pistol-inspection/
I personally do not care if grips are different, chances are they have been removed at one point.
Thanks for the link...good info there.
I do like the idea of a versatile handgun, the p228 is now a contender. I'm convinced...I found this and it seems like a good deal, with the exception of no box or papers, but i'm not collecting for resale, I'm collecting for shooting...
I recently spent a little more than that for a practically new condition P228 so that's a slightly high price depending on how much it costs you to transfer.
You won't regret getting a 228 so see if he'll come down a little.
http://grayguns.com/guide-to-sig-sauer-pistol-inspection/
I don't put much stock in that. I have over 20k out of my 226R and it's shiny silver in spots. It's hardly near the end of its service life. My German P228R also has some silver spots after 1,500 rounds. In fact, all of my SIGs do, and I lube them with Tetra or TW25B after every cleaning.
Have you seen some of the .mil M9's or NSW's SIGs? Some of them have no finish left.
eternal24k
04-13-11, 06:22
I don't put much stock in that. I have over 20k out of my 226R and it's shiny silver in spots. It's hardly near the end of its service life. My German P228R also has some silver spots after 1,500 rounds. In fact, all of my SIGs do, and I lube them with Tetra or TW25B after every cleaning.
Have you seen some of the .mil M9's or NSW's SIGs? Some of them have no finish left.
that's fine, and there is a huge difference between spots and the majority of the rail itself.
I wouldnt buy a aluminum framed lower with no anodizing left unless the price was really really good. This is just some common sense advice, not forcing it on you.
that's fine, and there is a huge difference between spots and the majority of the rail itself.
I wouldnt buy a aluminum framed lower with no anodizing left unless the price was really really good. This is just some common sense advice, not forcing it on you.
Oh, I wouldn't buy one that had no anodizing on the frame rails either. I was just saying that silver spots on the rails is normal on SIGs and shouldn't cause alarm.
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