View Full Version : which 1911 to buy
I would like to purchase a quality 1911 and have been doing some research but could use some input. I was looking into Springfields Operator. I have had quit a few 45s but never a 1911. I would like to buy one that is worth the money.At what point to yo9u stop paying for the firearm and start paying for the name? Any help is appreciated.
This has been covered many times here on M4C recently. Please use the orange search button located towards the top of your screen to find the answers you're looking for.
If you want something reliable enough to carry, IMO there are basically 3 "levels" at which you can jump into the 1911 market and still get adequate quality/reliability for CCW use:
* Get a basic factory model of an established brand, and get a "carry package" to ensure reliability and other features you need are added. Examples: Colt Series 70, Springfield Milspec or GI models. Here's a good way to do this: get a Springfield milspec, and send to the Springfield custom shop for a "reliability" package, plus any sights you want, etc. Probably cost you another $200 to $400 over the basic pistol cost.
* Get a mid-priced factory model, and have it mildly tweaked for reliability. Examples: Colt's new rail gun, Springfield Lightweight or MC Operator models. All in the neighborhood of $900 to $1200, plus a little bit more for some smith package to ensure reliability. In this range, you could also consider the Springfield TRP and the Dan Wesson Valor models, which range from $1400 to $1700.
* Get a higher end model that is reliable enough for carry out of the box. Examples: Les Baer (start around $1800 to $2k), Wilson Combat, Springfield Pro model ($2500), or custom builds by folks like Chuck Rogers, Dave Berryhill, etc. IMO, I'd look seriously at either the Springfield Pro, or Dave Berryhill's new "Advanced Fighting Pistol" (http://www.berryhillguns.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=2).
After having gone through the various stages, I recommend getting a lightly used Wilson Combat CQB. If one is patient, used ones can be had for about the price of the mid-range option (give or take).
You might want to check out Fusion Firearms. The owner used to be the president of Dan Wesson before they sold to CZ. Great service and prices are in your midpoint range depending on what you're having done to the weapon.
On a side note. Please whatever gun you decide to get don't get a 1911 with an external extractor.
Good luck with your purchase and happy hunting.
On a side note. Please whatever gun you decide to get don't get a 1911 with an external extractor.
This used to be the case, and I generally give this advice myself. However, it MUST be possible to design a pistol with a robust external extractor, since most modern semiauto pistols do it. S&W continues to work on doing this in their 1911's, and by some counts (including Hilton Yam, a heavyweight in the 1911 world) they have gotten it right with their latest "E" series of 1911's which use an external extractor. I'm not saying I'd necessarily recommend them, YET, but they are worth investigating.
Smith & Wesson E Series 1911s (http://www.bigskyguns.com/S_W_LE_Military_Sales-1911_E_Series_Pistols.html)
Hilton Yam on S&W E series 1911s (http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=94282)
MC Operator, STG Firearms has one in stock online. Best Bang for Buck, you can have one of these. This wont be there in two days.
The nicer Nighthawks and Wilson's and Browns are awesome and there is value in the guns. Its not just buying the name. True craftsmanship, but after you get past the MC Operator, you do pay a premium for refinement.
pb
Tough to answer without more specifics on your price range, uses, etc.; but here's my take:
good low end- Rock Island
good mid range- Springfield, Colt, Dan Wesson, Kimber
good hi end- Wilson, Les Baer
The above choices are based on my personal experiences and opinions, ymmv.:) WB
wetidlerjr
04-08-11, 18:59
This used to be the case, and I generally give this advice myself. However, it MUST be possible to design a pistol with a robust external extractor, since most modern semiauto pistols do it. S&W continues to work on doing this in their 1911's, and by some counts (including Hilton Yam, a heavyweight in the 1911 world) they have gotten it right with their latest "E" series of 1911's which use an external extractor. I'm not saying I'd necessarily recommend them, YET, but they are worth investigating.
I don't doubt that S&W makes the external extractor work and work well. It is just that I believe that 1911s don't have external extractors, double action triggers, double-wide mags or polymer frames. Any of those things are "over the edge" in my opinion. YMMV
:D
OK I'm an old fart and have shot literally tens of thousands of rounds thru various 1911's....I have had the good fortune to own or have owned most manufacturers 1911's.
here's my opinion which is worth EXACTLY what you paid for it....:D
Higher end.... best bang for the buck Baer
mid level ..... Dan Wesson 2010+ Valor series
low level....Springers
Dave Severns has vids of 25 yd testing from a Ransom Rest on youtube..... The Valors and Baer TRS outshot Wilson CQB, Colts, etc..... The Valor and TRS shot about equal groups.
The lw operator line would be my suggestion. Either the full size or champion. SA has the best no bs customer service and mine and among others have had great experiences with the operator line. You won't be sorry and you won't be spending a ton either.
I am a Colt fan- like my 1911's made in America,but that is a personal thing
Of the low end guns the Phillipine made rock islands are a good value,as are the Brazilian made Springfields. They run around 400-550 new.
Mid range I like Colt in the 500- 800 rangs.
Once you get above 800 bucks you might just as well save up for something like a les baer- the entry level les baer concept I or II are still listed at 1380 new on the website.
I would suggest looking for an older used well maintianed Colt.
I can usually with a little hunting on gunbroker,auction arms or locally find a good used colt for under 600 bucks. While I won't say they are superior in every way to say a well built springfield, they always hold value and a custom gun using a colt as a base seems so much more classy to me than a Springfield
A 2010 DW Valor was my first (only) 1911 purchase. Very comfortable to shoot, with a clean and classy look.
I've run it side by side with a Nighthawk GRP, and I cannot tell a difference. I'm not saying that there is no difference; just that it's not so significant that I can detect it (after putting Nighthawk G10 grips on my Valor).
The Valor seems to have some of the best features - with none of the "fluff" - that can be had for well under 2K. Look for a factory blem if you can find one. Saved me about $300 off of an already low price.
Good luck.
zk
The lw operator line would be my suggestion. Either the full size or champion. SA has the best no bs customer service and mine and among others have had great experiences with the operator line. You won't be sorry and you won't be spending a ton either.
Agree with you that the LW Operator is a great choice. I got one for about $1K, then had the SA Custom shop do some work on it. I have to give Dave Berryhill credit here too: he advised me on most of the custom parts to choose for it.
Here's mine:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=50939
I went through the same search process about a year and a half ago looking for my first 1911.
I picked up a Dan Wesson Valor for $1200 which was the 2009 model...I think? It was the model before they put the "duty coat" finish on the Valors. Not a single hiccup.
In fact, I loved the Valor so much, I bought the current 2010 model VBOB in stainless for $1450. Again, not a single hiccup or malfunction of any kind.
I'm no 1911 expert and I've never shot any of the high end 1911's i.e. Les Baer, Wilson, etc., but that's been my experience and I've been more than happy. FWIW, both these guns were recommended by many people on this forum to me on a thread I started given my price points.
They are both my favorite guns and they're very addicting...my P7 is a very close second. Good luck!
Any Colt.
High: SCG or Gold Cup
Mid: Combat Elite or Rail gun
Low: 1991 series
Compact: Defender
Good choices all.
RancidSumo
04-10-11, 04:01
I don't own a 1911 but I shoot a lot with my dad who is a 1911 fanatic. He owns a pile of Colts and I've also shot a Springfield Loaded, Rock Island, and Taurus 1911. Up to this point, I haven't been much of a fan.
He picked up a Wilson today though and I've got to say, this pistol may very well make a believer out of me (if it can live up to the pretty high standards my M&P has already set for pistol requirements in my book). I obviously can't comment as to reliability yet but I'd definitely take a look at their offerings if I were you.
This used to be the case, and I generally give this advice myself. However, it MUST be possible to design a pistol with a robust external extractor, since most modern semiauto pistols do it. S&W continues to work on doing this in their 1911's, and by some counts (including Hilton Yam, a heavyweight in the 1911 world) they have gotten it right with their latest "E" series of 1911's which use an external extractor. I'm not saying I'd necessarily recommend them, YET, but they are worth investigating.
Smith & Wesson E Series 1911s (http://www.bigskyguns.com/S_W_LE_Military_Sales-1911_E_Series_Pistols.html)
Hilton Yam on S&W E series 1911s (http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=94282)
Did you miss the update where the extractor pin came loose and locked the gun up? Paul L is the only guy I would trust to use a EE. Period.
I would like to purchase a quality 1911 and have been doing some research but could use some input. I was looking into Springfields Operator. I have had quit a few 45s but never a 1911. I would like to buy one that is worth the money.At what point to yo9u stop paying for the firearm and start paying for the name? Any help is appreciated.
I find Les Baer to be the best value in the semi custom market. They can be bought for not much more than a Springfield. The Springfield Pro is also an excellent pistol but the wait can be a bit much...
wetidlerjr
04-10-11, 07:14
Any Colt.
High: SCG or Gold Cup
Mid: Combat Elite or Rail gun
Low: 1991 series
Compact: Defender
Good choices all.
Good list except for the current Gold Cup as I believe they are no longer a "Custom Shop" pistol and, in any case, do not (in my never humble opinion) equal the Special Combat Government.
:D
I don't actually know that much about the GC. I shot one years ago and it was accurate and had nice fit and finish. The CE and SCG I own and have shot numerous times and have never had any problems with either. The CE would be the gun to take to a class IMO.
Did you miss the update where the extractor pin came loose and locked the gun up? Paul L is the only guy I would trust to use a EE. Period.
Did you miss the line from my post that you quoted, where I said: "I'm not saying I'd necessarily recommend them, YET, but they are worth investigating."
So, investigate. A locked-up gun (or even 2, or 3) is worth investigating. In itself, that wouldn't necessarily rule out the whole concept of an EE on a 1911 platform, but I agree with you, it should be "investigated", and carefully, before buying into that platform. Myself, I'm generally not an "early adopter" of pistol platforms, my one exception being the M&P (and I paid for that early adoption in the form of 3 broken strikers.) :-)
texshooter
04-11-11, 23:58
If your going to get an MC Operator then send it in to the custom shop, youre going to spend more to get the same or less than you would in a TRP operator.
I have a TRP and its a great pistol. if your set on the rail they make an operator version. you can sometimes find them for around $1400.
The TRP is generally fit better than the MC OPR and has a 20lpi front strap (may be too aggressive for some, depends on what your hands are used to) and many of the common "upgrades" youd send the other models in for.
i suggest looking into it
what a different market it is today from when I started with pistols about 30 years ago(has it really beeen that long?!) back then your chocies were pretty much Colt or Colt.
One would have to assume it's "new production facilities" problem on the EE issue with the new Smiths. I've had a few w EE's for years with no problems and we really haven't heard of it before the new plant in Houghton.
After looking at Fusion, Wilson and Ed Brown I went with a full sized black Dan Wesson Valor....and couldn't be happier!! Found mine at Jet Guns for $1589, $1605 shipped.
Fit and finish is awesome, and rivals the custom makers. All parts are machined NOT MIM, accuracy is great.
Greatest thing about this is that I didn't have to wait 5 months to have someone build it for me.
wetidlerjr
04-13-11, 04:54
After looking at Fusion, Wilson and Ed Brown I went with a full sized black Dan Wesson Valor....and couldn't be happier!! Found mine at Jet Guns for $1589, $1605 shipped.
Fit and finish is awesome, and rivals the custom makers. All parts are machined NOT MIM, accuracy is great.
Greatest thing about this is that I didn't have to wait 5 months to have someone build it for me.
Congrats, sounds good ! I would be interested in a range report after you shoot it.
:cool:
After looking at Fusion, Wilson and Ed Brown I went with a full sized black Dan Wesson Valor.
Valor's a great choice. For a great resource and a lot of DW and Valor experts, check out the DW forum at:
http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=52
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.