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oboe
04-05-11, 22:23
We live in a really, really small condo in south Florida. Sticking to 9mm, I'm looking for something that won't cause big problems to my neighbor on the other side of a common wall but will still be of use for home defense.

Right now, I'm operating on the presumption of penetrable walls, and if they turn out to less rather than more penetrable - well, that will be the cherry on top. I also am theorizing with the presumption that here in south Florida, the home invader will not be wearing four layers of denim or any such thick clothing. If he or she or they wear soft armor, all bets are off anyway.

Here are my candidates in 9mm, in no particular order of importance:

(1) Cor-Bon +P 90 gr JHP; flash suppressed powder; muzzle 1500 fps, 450 ft. lbs. I have no other data or testing on this round, but in theory - it's fast, it's light, it will have earlier expansion and less penetration. At the likely 2 yds. at which it would be fired at a home invader [to which reference is hereinafter made as "perp"], fired as many times as I'm still capable as firing it . . . maybe as good as anything else.

(2) Cor-Bon +P 100gr "Powerball". Muzzle 1475 fps, 483 ft. lbs. This is a JHP with a plastic ball in the hollow part. From testing I've read, it lacks the penetration we'd want in a street round, and it is known to lose its jacket in the perp. The good news: It hits hard but is highly unlikely to penetrate a common wall and still remain life threatening.

(3) Cor-Bon 95 gr DPX. From 3.1" barrel, muzzle 1300 fps, 356 ft. lbs. Solid copper hollow point. From tests I've read, penetrates beyond what would be expected of this weight in a conventional JHP load, and loses virtually no weight at terminus. Lacks FBI required penetration, but still gets in there and does some work. Could be the compromise winner - do you think?

(4) Fiocchi 92 gr Mono-Block. Not unlike the DPX projectile. Have no further information at this time.

(5) Double-Tap 80 gr solid copper Barnes DPX type projectile, same construction, muzzle 1560 fps, 433 ft. lbs. Would expect even less penetration than Cor-Bon 95 gr DPX, but still enough to enter the perp.

(6) Yes, the very interesting Federal EMJ 105 gr Guard Dog, muzzle 1230 fps, 353 ft. lbs. Projectile is lead free, copper and some kind of plastic. NO loss of mass at terminus, and expansion and weight tending to indicate over-penetration no concern. Test I've read indicates hard frontal hit, less than FBI required penetration. Manufactured and marketed as home defense with "safe" level of penetration. Seriously - if you were a perp wearing south Florida regular - would YOU just brush this off because the penetration isn't FBI minimum?

I would choose none of these outside of this tiny condo. But they seem to have the characteristics that would allow me to "first, do no harm" to my neighbor and second, screw up the perp enough to make a difference - especially when hit at 7 ft in the head.

Your thoughts?

tpd223
04-05-11, 22:41
All of these rounds will blow right through the wall and still kill the wrong people.

Just sayin.

Of the loads you listed, I'd go with none of the above.

If I wanted a 9mm that had minimal barrier penetration but still had decent bare gel/clothed gel test numbers I'd go with the 124gr +P EFMJ.

I actually talked to Doc and did some homework n that one, ended up carrying that load last year during a trip to NJ where my preferred issue 124gr +P Gold Dot might have gotten me thrown in jail on a felony.

itsturtle
04-05-11, 22:46
*Start a new thread please, do not derail this one*

Templar

TOrrock
04-05-11, 22:51
As has been stated, all of those loads will penetrate drywall.

20 years ago, I had a room mate that had a ND in our apartment. The 9mm 147gr. JHP went through 4 apartments, and stopped when it hit the brick retaining wall.

Best thing I can tell you is to get some good defensive ammo, like Speer 124 gr. +P and 147 gr. Gold Dot, Federal HST, Winchester Ranger T 127 gr. +P+ and 147 gr.....

Here's the list:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887



Practice, practice, practice.

If you truly want something low penetrating, I've seen first hand what 5.56mm NATO M193 does in modern construction, and while it will penetrate a couple rooms, it's far less than a handgun round.

Stay away from the snake oil pre-fragmented loads like Glaser, Magsafe and Extreme Shok....just get a lot of trigger time with what you have.

sjc3081
04-06-11, 01:01
How about 9bple.

TOrrock
04-06-11, 06:28
How about 9bple.

It's going to penetrate just as much drywall as a Gold Dot, or near enough that it won't make any practical difference.

Velcro
04-06-11, 07:03
first option...get a dog! (just kidding)

second option...if you have to go with 9mm, I would guess maybe a subsonic round or frangible if it's available to you...it shows that you were thinking about the safety of others as well as defending your life, plus as well stated, EVERYTHING you mentioned is flying at like "1,000,000,000 mph"...(just wanted to type the numbers...LOL!)

Velcro

oboe
04-07-11, 20:04
Having wrung out my OCD on this one and visited a number of web sites, the Box O' Truth was the turning point. That is a great website! There is no way that any worthwhile SD ammo will not penetrate the wall. Apparently, as an impediment to bullet lethality, wall board and air are approximately equivalent.

I have abandoned entirely the notion of a "safe round" and have returned to the notion of the most effective round I can handle [the 124 gr. FEMJ and the Gold Dot series are excellent candidates] and the best continued training and practice I can get.

Thanks for your input and SUPER thanks to Box O' Truth!

'nuff said.

Alaskapopo
04-08-11, 09:22
first option...get a dog! (just kidding)

second option...if you have to go with 9mm, I would guess maybe a subsonic round or frangible if it's available to you...it shows that you were thinking about the safety of others as well as defending your life, plus as well stated, EVERYTHING you mentioned is flying at like "1,000,000,000 mph"...(just wanted to type the numbers...LOL!)

Velcro

Sub sonic rounds are not going to be safer. They are heavier and have more momentum. People falsely think that more bullet velocity means more penetration. Velocity is only part of the equation. The truth is anything capable of putting a human threat down will over penetrate inside a home if you miss. Practice and train so you won't miss.
Pat

NeoNeanderthal
04-08-11, 09:38
This thread is making me feel lucky that I live in a log home. Im starting to think i should shoot into 8inches of solid White Pine and see if anything i own will penetrate.

bp7178
04-08-11, 09:59
I would worry more about range time and less on ammo. Get a good light on your pistol and practice with it.

Our duty ammo is Winchester Ranger 147gr bonded, and I'm quite sure sheetrock won't slow it down one bit.

Most pistol rounds are subsonic. People get very hung up on this.

I tell you what though, out of all the burglary reports i've taken, I've NEVER taken one for a homeowner who had a big dog. Think German Shepard, Rott etc. Tons of reports for people with alarms....none for dogs.

IMO, two German Shepards is just about the best home security you can get.

fiddly_foo
04-08-11, 18:10
Right my house is completly covered in full brick on the outside and heavy plaster walls on the inside the only way I get a flier is with some sloppy shooting and or a hit that goes threw and hes in front of a window. So I def. feel a little better..But always got to be safe even in the highest stress times..

lifebreath
04-08-11, 18:34
http://www.theboxotruth.com/

shootist~
04-08-11, 19:25
http://www.theboxotruth.com/

Thanks for that. I had not visited the site in some time - it's always a good read.