View Full Version : STI 2011 For CCDW
We do a lot with the 2011 handguns from STI.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/STI%20VIP/100_3231.jpg
This gun is one I just got done for a customer it is in 40 and will hold 16 and 1 after I tune the mags.
This gun is only about 25oz.http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/STI%20VIP/100_3222.jpg
It is a lot of fire power and when done right it is very reliable.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/STI%20VIP/100_3217.jpg
I would like to know you thoughts on it as a CCDW gun.
I had a Tactical 4.15 2011 in 40SW.
Honestly it was a train wreck. I had thought at the time I was going to get the best of both worlds, the 1911 love I was used to and modern hi-cap's and rail.
It came from the factory all kinds of ****ed up. To STI's credit they fixed it all SAME WEEK with overnight shipping. Recoil was snappy, gun was too bulky and shaped to conceal well, and it wouldnt run relaibly despite promised of expensive as **** "tuned" mags. IMO a carry gun shouldnt need a speacial balance of good and evil in a mag to run, it needs to be dead nuts reliable in harsh conditions without question.
That guns not doing anything a GLOCK wont do.
It was an expensive experiance.
At one time last decade I thought a double stack 1911 would be the ideal carry/home defense handgun. Bought four alloy-frame versions of the STI Tactical, all 9mm, two 5" guns, and two 4.15 " guns. One had a too tight chamber, one had an improperly tuned extractor. A third had some other reliability issue that slips my mind. Dave Dawson fixed the three and they ran okay after that. The fourth ran fine from the beginning. They were easy to shoot fast and accurately and carried pretty easily in a Blade Tech IWB holster. After a year and only about 2K through each gun, I had to replace the mag springs in my 12 tuned mags. Ditto after another year. Too much trouble IMO.
We still have one because my wife likes it. I carry Glocks now.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-06-11, 20:23
My STI 5.0 Tactical in 45ACP is my Fear-No-Evil gun for CCW. In a homebrewed Kydex holster it is easier and slimmer than my SW M&P. 14 rounds of ACP in flush mags and 16 in extended mags.
STI mags suck, SVI mags suck less. Tuning, polishing, FailZERO'ing them and ammo selection all help. A +P Recoilmaster helped to feed rounds with authority.
My 40 Edge was easier shooting than my SIG P226 9MM.
I've seen and held a Superior Firearms STI in 9mm that had been run over 1000 rounds with out cleaning or a hiccup. I look forward to one day buying one of their STI 2011s.
Mr. Smith- STI told me late last year they could do a run of full length (5in barrel) frames with a rail, for a minimum run of 10. They never got back to me about doing it in aluminium though....
What can you tell us about the mags? Nice slits up the sides and what kind of finish is that?
Nice looking gun!
My STI 5.0 Tactical in 45ACP is my Fear-No-Evil gun for CCW. In a homebrewed Kydex holster it is easier and slimmer than my SW M&P. 14 rounds of ACP in flush mags and 16 in extended mags.
STI mags suck, SVI mags suck less. Tuning, polishing, FailZERO'ing them and ammo selection all help. A +P Recoilmaster helped to feed rounds with authority.
My 40 Edge was easier shooting than my SIG P226 9MM.
I've seen and held a Superior Firearms STI in 9mm that had been run over 1000 rounds with out cleaning or a hiccup. I look forward to one day buying one of their STI 2011s.
Mr. Smith- STI told me late last year they could do a run of full length (5in barrel) frames with a rail, for a minimum run of 10. They never got back to me about doing it in aluminium though....
What can you tell us about the mags? Nice slits up the sides and what kind of finish is that?
Nice looking gun!
Thanks
The mags are the standard around this place we do a lot of mag work.
It makes the 120mm flush mount mags for the VIP hold 16rd of 40.
The whiteness cuts are something I came up with a bunch of years ago.
It makes the rd count nice to say the least.
The VIP is smaller than the Glock 23 and just a little heaver.
superr.stu
04-06-11, 20:37
Very nice Mr. Smith. I think I can safely assume after you worked it over that it'll run like a raped ape. While I think your personal 2011 appeals to me a little more, this one looks like it would make a hell of a carry gun. If you don't mind what all did you do to it?
-Stu
I have a .40 S&W Tactical 5.0 and have had mine for about 4 years and several thousands of rounds through it. I have had zero issues other than the standard crappy non tuned mags. Mine has been dead on reliable from day 1. I absolutely love this pistol, but I really couldn't imagine carrying it concealed. I would however carry it in an instant as a duty weapon.
In action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00q2xImF3LE
STI Tac 5.0 at the 2 minute mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBBsDmKPQ40
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.
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VooDoo6Actual
04-07-11, 07:52
I had a Tactical 4.15 2011 in 40SW.
Honestly it was a train wreck. I had thought at the time I was going to get the best of both worlds, the 1911 love I was used to and modern hi-cap's and rail.
It came from the factory all kinds of ****ed up. To STI's credit they fixed it all SAME WEEK with overnight shipping. Recoil was snappy, gun was too bulky and shaped to conceal well, and it wouldnt run relaibly despite promised of expensive as **** "tuned" mags. IMO a carry gun shouldnt need a speacial balance of good and evil in a mag to run, it needs to be dead nuts reliable in harsh conditions without question.
That guns not doing anything a GLOCK wont do.
It was an expensive experiance.
To the op ed,
pretty much my experiences w/ them as well.
When they run they run like a "raped ape" & are "hose monsters" etc.
Know a lot of guys who shoot professionally that love em.
Too wide of profile for my tastes for CCW on protection details.
Neat guns when they run, but costly & inconsistant from my experiences.
Owned 5 or 6 a few years back.
I've really wanted to run a double stack 1911 as a CCW, but I have not found a reliable one yet.
I'm thinking of getting a springfield govt hi cap and working from there. The STI has quite a following within the competetive community, but those magazine are rough. At that price, I hate been choosy about mags (at that price the mags better WORK!). I'd much rather be choosy about the standard price for Wilson Combat or Chip McCormick mags.
Have not found a good solution for out of box 1911 double stack CCW (with standard 1911 maintenance along the way). If someone puts out a reliable one, reasonable priced--they'd make a killing.
If yours work for you--ride it hard while it lasts.
Very nice Mr. Smith. I think I can safely assume after you worked it over that it'll run like a raped ape. While I think your personal 2011 appeals to me a little more, this one looks like it would make a hell of a carry gun. If you don't mind what all did you do to it?
-Stu
Thanks
1. Dehorn and bead blast the SS parts
2. Time the gun
3. Install and tune the extractor
4. Action job set at 4.5lbs
5. Tune the mags
6. Hi power cut the slide
7. Flush cut the barrel and recess crown
8. Fit the mag catch
9. Night sight work
10. Recoil system work
I have heard of a lot of reliability issues with the 2011 style guns. I can't speak for stock guns but I can tell you that the Work Mr. Smith does to these 2011s makes them stupid reliable. I have been to at least a half dozen Classes with him.
he carries a 2011, his assistant instructor carries one, and there is usually at least one student who has one he has built in class as well.
I have seen only 1 have issues and that was his assistant instructors gun. If I remember correctly the recoil spring was wore out. This was after something like 15K rounds through the gun however.
I am on a gun purchasing freeze but when I do get something else I intend on having him build me a 2011 for training.
Here's my thoughts on a 2011 carry gun.....I would never carry one, nor would I recommend them to someone. Why? Well, I've had several 2011 pistols that have been great COMPETITION guns, but not something I would want to carry every day. The other agency that is part of my regional SWAT used to carry SV2011 pistols as their issued duty/SWAT pistol. Lots of reliability issues with them. IMHO, a carry gun shouldn't need tuned magazines or a highly skilled gunsmith to fit/tune broken extractors, broken links, broken ejectors, etc. You should be able to take your carry gun to any GOOD gun shop that offers manufacturer armorer services to replace parts that might brake.
Another issue is cost. How much for the pistol? $1800?? How much for the tuned mags? $75 each? A 2011 doesn't offer anything special other than a single action trigger. There are other pistols that offer basically the same features which cost a heck of a lot less. For the price of a 2011 and 3 or 4 mags, I can get a good pistol, mags, holster, mag pouch, ammo and a 3 day class somewhere reputable.
Just my .02.
Having said all that, it looks like a very nice pistol. Nice work.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-07-11, 21:37
Another issue is cost. How much for the pistol? $1800?? How much for the tuned mags? $75 each? A 2011 doesn't offer anything special other than a single action trigger. There are other pistols that offer basically the same features which cost a heck of a lot less. For the price of a 2011 and 3 or 4 mags, I can get a good pistol, mags, holster, mag pouch, ammo and a 3 day class somewhere reputable.
Just my .02.
Why is it that people think a 2011 that is $1500-$1800 will run perfectly when it seems that double that is standard for a 1911 and then perhaps some work on top of it. I think that STI especially puts out a basic gun and then supports an industry that will get you any flavor or mod. I think the problem is that people try to smith their own guns (I'll raise my hand on that one) or they use people that aren't really qualified
What other SAO gun out there has hi-cap and as good of a trigger? I had a Sig X-Five in 9mm and it was almost as good, and almost as expensive. The Para's and SAs are just birds of a feather.
I have a buddy that is a USPSA Grand Master and smiths up his and others guns, and he looks at me like I'm crazy when I tell him about 2011s being unreliable. He shoots them all season and rarely cleans them and never all they way till it starts to cycle slowly.
The real issue is that S_I tried to keep the last 1/2 inch of a single stack mag to keep the frames similar to 1911s. All those bullets gets shoved into one patch, like Octomom x2 trying to give birth. IF they had just widened the frame to accept Sig/SW/HP double stack mags bodies I think a lot of the mag issues would go away. A Sig double stack mag isn't that much wider or deeper than an STI mag, but the rounds don't have to fight their way into one narrow channel to get fed into the gun.
One of the SMEs here told SW that since they make '1911s' and the MP, they should just make a 2011 that takes MP mags. I think the point went right over their heads.
As to parts and breakage, like modern striker or DA/SA guns don't break? Plus you can strip a 1911/2011 down completely with a basically the right sized screwdriver or Allen wrench and all the parts work harmoniously. I got an SW M&P and it looks like it was designed by monkeys on crack. So much for simplicity.
I didn't want to detract from the beautiful gun, I wish you'd post more pics of it ;)
Why is it that people think a 2011 that is $1500-$1800 will run perfectly when it seems that double that is standard for a 1911 and then perhaps some work on top of it. I think that STI especially puts out a basic gun and then supports an industry that will get you any flavor or mod. I think the problem is that people try to smith their own guns (I'll raise my hand on that one) or they use people that aren't really qualified This thread is about the 2011. I would have said the same thing about custom 1911s. A buddy spent $2500 on a Nighthawk 1911 for off duty carry. I think he's nuts.
As to parts and breakage, like modern striker or DA/SA guns don't break? Plus you can strip a 1911/2011 down completely with a basically the right sized screwdriver or Allen wrench and all the parts work harmoniously. I got an SW M&P and it looks like it was designed by monkeys on crack. So much for simplicity.Who said they don't break? I didn't. What I said was they didn't take a gunsmith to replace broken parts due the need for fitting.
Don't mean to hijack the thread. Sorry.
Why is it that people think a 2011 that is $1500-$1800 will run perfectly when it seems that double that is standard for a 1911 and then perhaps some work on top of it. I think that STI especially puts out a basic gun and then supports an industry that will get you any flavor or mod. I think the problem is that people try to smith their own guns (I'll raise my hand on that one) or they use people that aren't really qualified
What other SAO gun out there has hi-cap and as good of a trigger? I had a Sig X-Five in 9mm and it was almost as good, and almost as expensive. The Para's and SAs are just birds of a feather.
I have a buddy that is a USPSA Grand Master and smiths up his and others guns, and he looks at me like I'm crazy when I tell him about 2011s being unreliable. He shoots them all season and rarely cleans them and never all they way till it starts to cycle slowly.
The real issue is that S_I tried to keep the last 1/2 inch of a single stack mag to keep the frames similar to 1911s. All those bullets gets shoved into one patch, like Octomom x2 trying to give birth. IF they had just widened the frame to accept Sig/SW/HP double stack mags bodies I think a lot of the mag issues would go away. A Sig double stack mag isn't that much wider or deeper than an STI mag, but the rounds don't have to fight their way into one narrow channel to get fed into the gun.
One of the SMEs here told SW that since they make '1911s' and the MP, they should just make a 2011 that takes MP mags. I think the point went right over their heads.
As to parts and breakage, like modern striker or DA/SA guns don't break? Plus you can strip a 1911/2011 down completely with a basically the right sized screwdriver or Allen wrench and all the parts work harmoniously. I got an SW M&P and it looks like it was designed by monkeys on crack. So much for simplicity.
I didn't want to detract from the beautiful gun, I wish you'd post more pics of it ;)
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/STI%20VIP/100_3227.jpg
Why is it that people think a 2011 that is $1500-$1800 will run perfectly when it seems that double that is standard for a 1911 and then perhaps some work on top of it. I think that STI especially puts out a basic gun and then supports an industry that will get you any flavor or mod. I think the problem is that people try to smith their own guns (I'll raise my hand on that one) or they use people that aren't really qualified
I think that is over stated. You can get a decent 1911 for about 1/2 the cost of a 2011. I, myself don't see the need to go beyond about $1000 for a good carry 1911, unless its for more ammo or mags. You can spend double that. But you don't have to. There are options in the 700-1000 dollar range. Hardware snobs take issue with those, but they do work.
I have a buddy that is a USPSA Grand Master and smiths up his and others guns, and he looks at me like I'm crazy when I tell him about 2011s being unreliable. He shoots them all season and rarely cleans them and never all they way till it starts to cycle slowly.
designed by monkeys on crack. So much for simplicity.
I've seen similar experience. From all the reports of unreliability, they seem real popular as competition guns. And those high end guys have zero tolerance for stoppages. I am somewhat confused by this myself, so I'll claim that I was just going with the flow. I do know that the only option in the $1000 range for high cap is Para and they are not on "most favored nation trading status" They have issues. Springfield has theirs as well, but it does not have good support or options. I'd love to have one, but I don't want a GI config (hammer bite).
I didn't want to detract from the beautiful gun, I wish you'd post more pics of it ;)
This. This, and more of this! 2011 Gun porn!
I'm saving pennies and maybe one day, I'll get me one of these. Just don't tell anyone I don't shoot a glock....
first off...
nice work!
I went through STI's factory tour the other day.
I showed up without prior notice and got an offer for the tour.
Nice guys and I was at numerous stages parts that were marked as scrap, such as magwells, even a few frames that I scoured over looking for the reason they were scrapped.
I have shot their 2011s and never had any issues. Both Dawson and STI are within 45 minutes of me so getting one to run shouldn't be a problem.
Having said that, I carry a Wilson Spec 0ps 9 everyday and it has ran well over 2K rounds without issue and is so much thinner and to me, easier to carry than a Glock, M&P, etc..
Powder_Burn
04-09-11, 13:18
Dawson built me a defense oriented 2011 years ago that ended up being a supertanker full of hurt. Six months of giddy anticipation followed by another six months of unsuccessful troubleshooting for many distinct issues. Paid $2,500 in stupid tax on that one. Should have bought two Glocks and attended two classes instead.
Heartbreaker
04-09-11, 18:52
Great looking gun but I would never trust my life to one personally. Short 1911s have enough feeding problems to begin with, and for the most part anything custom or any major design changes you add increases the chance of problems from what I've seen. Cost wouldn't bother me if I thought I was honestly getting something that I couldn't with any other carry gun, but as Powder_Burn said if it's between that and a known to be reliable gun AND some classes from a good instructor for LESS it's a no brainer to choose the latter. If you must carry it though I'd get at least a few hundred rounds of your chosen defense load and run it as hard as you can, ammo cost probably won't bother you if you are already spending $2k+ on a gun anyway.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-09-11, 23:55
Anybody got a bad story about a Superior gun not running right?
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-16-11, 15:19
Well, I guess that answers that question.
My work is my legacy it is what I leave behind I want it to speak well of me.
All we have in this world is our word I am not perfect I just try as hard as I can to do what I say I will do.
I hope my work speaks volumes about me.
Thanks
Hogsgunwild
04-16-11, 15:45
I have a .40S&W VIP. Had to send it back to STI to make it reliable.
They did and it runs fairly well, but, it is still a range gun for practicing with cheaper .40 cal ammo for me.
It just feels cheap compared to my steel and even aluminum framed single stacks plus I hate carrying double-stack magazines for concealed carry.
It is very accurate but I would prefer to have a HK P30 in .40.
More accurate, more reliable and less expensive, even after a few mods.
I'll stick with single stack 1911s.
I have shot five or Six STI's and out of the bunch maybe two functioned properly mainly due to mag issues. At one time I was torn between a STI and a hi-cap Para for a duty gun but everyone I spoke with told me I was a fool as both wer nothing but trouble. Anyway, that is one sweet looking hi-cap 40 and I'd carry it in a heartbeat. If I could get one in 357sig I'd be all over it!!
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-16-11, 20:13
Jesus Christ! It's a thread about the great craftsmanship that Superior put into a nice looking gun, not a dump on STI guns thread.
For five days no one posted a single negative comment about Superior's guns, but when after I thought we had tamped out wheat from the chaff, as soon as the thread comes back, people start dumping on STIs again.
Yes, STIs can issues out of the box, that's why there are people like Superior around. That's what the thread is about.
[SIZE="3"]I would like to know you thoughts on it as a CCDW gun.
Jesus Christ! It's a thread about the great craftsmanship that Superior put into a nice looking gun, not a dump on STI guns thread.
For five days no one posted a single negative comment about Superior's guns, but when after I thought we had tamped out wheat from the chaff, as soon as the thread comes back, people start dumping on STIs again.
Yes, STIs can issues out of the box, that's why there are people like Superior around. That's what the thread is about.
Actually I believe he asked in the op what we thought of the 2011 as a carry gun .
Hogsgunwild
04-17-11, 01:08
That was my understanding as well.
Superior's work looks great and I am sure it runs great but I am really turned off by how finicky 2011 magazines are in general. There will be up-keep on those magazines for years to come. Just not my cup of tea anymore. I hope that this type of feedback can help the gentleman.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-17-11, 04:45
Double Jesus Christ!!
Maybe I'll be forgiving and say that on the first page you could bring up STIs poor out of the box performance- but after Superior explains what they do to the guns to make them work better, you get first hand accounts of how well the guns run and for five days no one says that the have ever had a problem with SUPERIOR's guns. With in 5 hours two people chime in again about stock STIs sucking.
I'm pretty sure that the reason they were asking about CCW with the gun was because it has a shortened grip for the new shorter mag length. That's pretty cool. And to answer that question, I think that is pretty cool. I'd like to relieve the frame under the trigger guard for more room for my hand. I might be interested in seeing what happens when you 'bob' the back of the grip with a slanted main spring housing.
Yes, stock STIs suck. These are not stock STIs. This is not a thread about stock STIs.
I'm trying to be nice and help out and give Superior a chance to exhibit some of their work with out having to defend stock STIs.
Hogsgunwild
04-17-11, 15:46
The magazine was modified to hold sixteen rounds from a stock VIP .40 S&W's twelve round capacity. Did I miss where it said the grip was shortened? It looks like my VIP's frame.
Hogsgunwild
04-17-11, 15:57
The gentleman simply ask for thoughts on this as a carry gun.
Owning the closer to stock version, I already knew how I felt about the gun, modified or not.
It would make a great hi-cap if I had a specific use for a concealed hi-cap but I prefer not to carry (or even own) anything that is magazine maintenance intensive. While I would prefer his custom VIP over a Glock 23, I prefer the way my single stacks carry, feel and shoot over the 2011.
For someone that digs the 1911 and feels that they need the higher capacity, this would be an awesome choice. I tried it already and did not care for it.
It would be interesting to know how the addition of four extra bullets in the magazine affects the mag springs' life-span.
The gentleman simply ask for thoughts on this as a carry gun.
Owning the closer to stock version, I already knew how I felt about the gun, modified or not.
It would make a great hi-cap if I had a specific use for a concealed hi-cap but I prefer not to carry (or even own) anything that is magazine maintenance intensive. While I would prefer his custom VIP over a Glock 23, I prefer the way my single stacks carry, feel and shoot over the 2011.
For someone that digs the 1911 and feels that they need the higher capacity, this would be an awesome choice. I tried it already and did not care for it.
It would be interesting to know how the addition of four extra bullets in the magazine affects the mag springs' life-span.
When I do the mods on the mags I use springs that are much nicer and better quality.
Chrome silicon each spring has been heat treated, stress relieved and shot peened to enhance performance and durability.
These extra steps and quality materials ensure consistency and longevity many time that of standard music wire springs.
Hogsgunwild
04-20-11, 20:15
Thanks for the info Mr. Smith. That is interesting. I would guess there would be a great market for magazines of such quality among the STI crowd.
Do you only sell them with builds or can one purchase them a la carte?
If sold separately, how much?
I build mags for all sorts of people and I sell them with all my builds.
The mags are the key to this platform.
I sell them on my sight.
http://www.superiorfirearmsllc.com/for-sale.html
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