View Full Version : Home Defense Load Preference
Just curious what everyones preference on shot (slug, 00, 000,) is for home defense AND what brand. I really like the Rem. 2 3/4" 00.
I keep 3" 00 buck in my 870p, general consensus from what I've heard/read is either #1 buck or 00 buck. I use the Winchester Supreme 3" 00 Buck, comes in a black box. I found it to pattern better with my particular gun than the Remington stuff I tried. I havent tried the Federal loads yet.
3" 00 Buckshot indoors. It's important you pattern anything you are going to use for defense because different brands/loads will pattern different with almost every shotgun. Mine happens to like Federal.
There is an interesting article in IWBA about #1 Buckshot in Wound Ballistics Review but they never did a followup. Not to mention it's impossible to find #1 Buckshot most of the time.
Low recoil, patterns great.
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/prc77509th/DSC01679.jpg
3" 00 Buckshot indoors. It's important you pattern anything you are going to use for defense because different brands/loads will pattern different with almost every shotgun. Mine happens to like Federal.
There is an interesting article in IWBA about #1 Buckshot in Wound Ballistics Review but they never did a followup. Not to mention it's impossible to find #1 Buckshot most of the time.
Why 3" if you dont mind me asking? The reason I like the 2 3/4" is the recoil management in a hight stress situation, I want to be able to make a prompt follow up shot if needed. IMHO.
usarmy15t86
04-07-11, 13:50
Low recoil, patterns great.
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/prc77509th/DSC01679.jpg
This is the same thing I use in my 870. I've had very good results with the spread staying tight at least to 10 yards, and the recoil isn't quite as bad.
I have been contemplating trying out the new 12 ga. PDX rounds, 1 slug and 3 pellets of buck. Interesting concept, been seeing it lately in the gun magazines.
This is the same thing I use in my 870. I've had very good results with the spread staying tight at least to 10 yards, and the recoil isn't quite as bad.
I have been contemplating trying out the new 12 ga. PDX rounds, 1 slug and 3 pellets of buck. Interesting concept, been seeing it lately in the gun magazines.
The PDX is winchester right? I been wanting to try those too
usarmy15t86
04-07-11, 16:34
Yes, Winchester PDX. I haven't been able to find any for sale, but it's listed on Midway (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=932564) for backorder. I'm always interested in new shotgun HD rounds.
Yes, Winchester PDX. I haven't been able to find any for sale, but it's listed on Midway (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=932564) for backorder. I'm always interested in new shotgun HD rounds.
Did you check cheaper than dirt? Shit I just seen them and I cant remember where. I want some
Federal LE132 Flite-Control 00 Buck. Runs like a scalded-ass ape, holds tight patterns that extend my shotgun's range significantly. I can keep the whole pattern on an IPSC target out to about 30 yards or so with an ImpCyl 18" barrel.
3" Mag loads are more than you need. They reduce the shotgun's already low capacity, increase the already significant recoil, and don't really add any lethality at in-home ranges. 3" Mags are for hunting turkeys and waterfowl, not home defense.
My experience with actually shooting anything alive with buckshot was at a hog. I used Federal 2 3/4", 00 Copper Plated lead Buckshot from a 26" Benelli SBE at about 30 yards.
It did the trick and then some, full pass through. I got lucky and killed a babie piggie behind the sow too all in one shot. I found one of the balls embeded in the sow's opposite shoulder from where I shot her, and the entire weight of the ball seemd to still be there, fully intact, just wadded and flattened.
So, I have full confidence in that round to deliver similar results if ever needed to defend against an intruder. Just do your part, hit where you want and I feel any 00 buck will be simply devestating, especially considering home defense ranges.
But from what I have gathered, the only advantages of 3" and 3 1/2" shells are more shot. They deliver the same velocities as 2 3/4" shells and therefore same knock down power ball for ball. In a house, if you can make 12 balls hit your target, you can make 9 balls hit your target, with less recoil and more room in the mag.
The only stuff I stay away from is Winchester shells. They always get that white powder crap all over the place form the shell not being fully closed.
Why 3" if you dont mind me asking? The reason I like the 2 3/4" is the recoil management in a hight stress situation, I want to be able to make a prompt follow up shot if needed. IMHO.
Felt recoil is very individual and 12lb shotguns don't move much. 3" gives you 15 pellets vs 8.
ETA: If I had an aluminum gun like a Mossberg I'd probably go with something different.
memphisjim
04-08-11, 03:35
i have a 3.5 inch 00 buck in the chamber then slug,oobuck slug ,slug all 2 3/4 in the tube
Let me guess. You read it in a gun magazine somewhere and thought it was cool? You realize that everyone of those rounds mentioned will overpenetrate way more than any 5.56 round could hope.
i have a 3.5 inch 00 buck in the chamber then slug,oobuck slug ,slug all 2 3/4 in the tube
superr.stu
04-08-11, 07:33
I'm using Hornady Critical Defense 00. It patterns well, though I would prefer using Federal Flight Control. The Hornady is locally available at 3 stores, where as Federal isn't.
Granted all of that really doesn't matter a whole lot, the shotgun for me is a tertiary defensive weapon. Honestly if something Sooo shitty happens at my house that I've run through all my pistol mags, all my rifle mags and I need to retrieve my shotgun...Then I have way bigger problems that which buckshot and slug combination am I using.
i have a 3.5 inch 00 buck in the chamber then slug,oobuck slug ,slug all 2 3/4 in the tube
Not keen on tube stacking myself. I prefer having positive control over what round I'm shooting and more importantly, knowing for certain what round I'm shooting.
Also not keen on 3.5," for the same reasons others have already mentioned about 3" only amplified.
Also not keen on 3.5," for the same reasons others have already mentioned about 3" only amplified.
3.5" 12ga is kinda questionable. It's only 18 pellets vs 15 in a 3". 15 pellets in a 3" is way more than 8 in a 2-3/4".
I don't rely on a shotgun as a primary HD weapon, I will always choose my 6920, or Bushy/BCM carbine's for that role, loaded with a 55gr hollow point.
However, I did recently add a Mossberg 590SP to the gun locker, a nine-shot, GRS'd, speedfeed stocked, offering that is very well made, and no doubt equal to the job if it is ever offered it.
I've only patterned it with Remington 2 3/4" #4 buck(27 pellets)at 10 & 15 yards, but the 4 buck patterns very well at those distances, and 4 buck is very unlikely to exit the wall of a room in my home and enter another one.
I might add, that though I am not likely to ever rely on anything more than 4 buck, If I were to rely on a heavy 8 or 9 pellet buckshot load for defense in my rural environment, I would opt for Federal 2 3/4" 000 buck.
Just curious what everyones preference on shot (slug, 00, 000,) is for home defense AND what brand.
5.56 Winchester 55 gr nosler ballistic tips
For me a shotgun is way too slow for a 2nd shot, and it doesn't hold 30 rounds. Also, my wife and 10 year old kid are great with an AR15 but neither is fond of a pump 12 ga.
Honestly if something Sooo shitty happens at my house that I've run through all my pistol mags, all my rifle mags and I need to retrieve my shotgun...Then I have way bigger problems that which buckshot and slug combination am I using.
If you went through all that, I would say it is a marksmanship problem, not a weapon platform problem.
This is a tough crowd I keep my winnie loaded with #00 federal 3in buck. My house lay out provides me with the piece of mind that none of the bedrooms are in my line of fire.
5.56 Winchester 55 gr nosler ballistic tips
For me a shotgun is way too slow for a 2nd shot, and it doesn't hold 30 rounds. Also, my wife and 10 year old kid are great with an AR15 but neither is fond of a pump 12 ga.
He asked for preference as to shotgun load. In the shotgun forum. I think the responses might have a lot to do with those factors.
5.56 Winchester 55 gr nosler ballistic tips
For me a shotgun is way too slow for a 2nd shot, and it doesn't hold 30 rounds. Also, my wife and 10 year old kid are great with an AR15 but neither is fond of a pump 12 ga.
My shotgun may not hold 30 rounds, but it can deliver 72 58gr lead balls that will ruin your weekend
Combat_Diver
04-09-11, 07:26
For the 12ga here in Astan I keep it loaded with 2 3/4" 00 buck, 9 pellet count with a Modified Rem Choke.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/870_and_CZ999_Skorpinon.JPG
At home my 12 ga 870 is loaded with 2 3/4" 00 buck, 12 pellet count. (Choke would depend on which of the its 3 barrels I have on it) Same for my A5 riot gun.
The 20 ga 870 is loaded with 2 3/4" #3 buck. I've got a .31 cal round ball mold on the way and going to try loading some bigger shot in it. Should be able to get 6-8 of those balls in it. The .31 is between 0 and 00 buck.
CD
NavyDavy55
04-09-11, 07:28
The Federal Tactical LE-132 low-recoil 00 buckshot with FliteControl Wad @ 1145 FPS.
http://frankbaumer.com/Heartland%20Pictures/More_Pics/Federal_Tactical_00buckshot_Low_Recoil_LE13200B.jpg
The Federal Tactical LE-132 low-recoil 00 buckshot with FliteControl Wad @ 1145 FPS.
http://frankbaumer.com/Heartland%20Pictures/More_Pics/Federal_Tactical_00buckshot_Low_Recoil_LE13200B.jpg Big plus on these.They run well in my well broken in 930SPX. I threw the slugs in a storage box.
The Federal Tactical LE-132 low-recoil 00 buckshot with FliteControl Wad @ 1145 FPS.
Ditto. We issue this at my job, and I am impressed enough with the performance to buy my own for the house.
I normally take some of the full power stuff with me when I am bird hunting for just in case, since I hunt with an 11-87, the pump guns stay at home.
Both types of this ammo make the gauge a viable 50 yard weapon in my observation.
Pathfinder Ops
04-09-11, 10:37
Standard issue Remington 2 3/4 00 Buck.
No BS, gun magazine or TV show, slug & Shot mixtures.
I have a small house built in 1848 on top of a mountain in the middle of nowhere. So it's a house that doesn't require 3" ammo for reach. No long hallways or whatever, so no need for the boost.
While I can say I have never had to shoot a person with my shotgun, I have put down some deer with it using 00 Buck and I'm pretty convinced that it is sufficient as a home defense choice.
No science going on there other than I know how that ammo patterns out of my gun. So it's just my belief that it will work at this point.
Standard issue Remington 2 3/4 00 Buck.
No BS, gun magazine or TV show, slug & Shot mixtures.
I have a small house built in 1848 on top of a mountain in the middle of nowhere. So it's a house that doesn't require 3" ammo for reach. No long hallways or whatever, so no need for the boost.
.
Very good. This is my favorite. I picked up some PDX slugs yesterday. Im kinda intrigued on testing performance tomorrow. I agree that the shot thats in there wit the slug is pure marketing.
This is a tough crowd I keep my winnie loaded with #00 federal 3in buck. My house lay out provides me with the piece of mind that none of the bedrooms are in my line of fire.
My house is the same. But there is always that chance...
This is true and there is the possibility that family members may not be where you think they are when you pull the trigger. My home is set up so that if I did have to fire inside towards the bedrooms my kids sleep, in the buckshot would have to pass through 5 layers of drywall before entering their room. The only position I would be in to accomplish this is literaly if I met the intruder at my front door and was facing east as he entered. It brings up a good point of always have target awareness and positive control of a situation. Hopefully the sight of a shotgun pointed at an intruder is enough to keep you from having to engage and pull the trigger.
Hornady TAP, 2 3/4" 00 buckshot, 9 pellets loaded on surefire mags for my Saiga 12. Also have my Peltor hearing protection beside it, don't want to go deaf should I need to pull the trigger.
Federal 00 3 inch, thru my 870. 8-10 inch pattern is very nice in a hurry.
Combat_Diver
04-10-11, 01:07
Rule#3, always be sure of your target and what is behind it. This applies to every type and caliber of arm.
CD
GLOCKMASTER
04-10-11, 07:13
Hopefully the sight of a shotgun pointed at an intruder is enough to keep you from having to engage and pull the trigger.
Don't bet on it and that is just not a good mindset to have going into a situation involving the possible use of a weapon.
Don't bet on it and that is just not a good mindset to have going into a situation involving the possible use of a weapon.
Trust me the midset to shoot first and ask questions later is not a good mindset to have either. Violence is not and should not always be the first resort of any action.
GLOCKMASTER
04-10-11, 14:24
Trust me the midset to shoot first and ask questions later is not a good mindset to have either. Violence is not and should not always be the first resort of any action.
That is not what I meant by my post and if I would have meant to say that in my post I would have typed it that way.
titsonritz
04-10-11, 14:59
My house lay out provides me with the piece of mind that none of the bedrooms are in my line of fire.
How do you know what your line of fire would be?
Mr. Goodtimes
04-10-11, 20:02
Hopefully the sight of a shotgun pointed at an intruder is enough to keep you from having to engage and pull the trigger.
I'm not counting on this. If some stranger breaks into my home, he is a threat to me and more importantly, my families well being. I fully intend to shoot said intruder. I'm not some blood thirsty, vigilante, gun nut; I'm just not in to taking stupid risks when lives are at stake. The difference between life and death may be weather you shoot the ****er, or you wait and see if your big scary shotgun scares him off. I'm not taking those risks.
I dont believe in killing somebody for stealing. Kicking their ass? Yea. But killing, no. Thats the problem with being a low life ****, though. When a perp breaks into a dwelling (home, office, warehouse etc.) he is taking a risk that there may be an armed occupant inside. In this day and age with gang violence and home invasions you dont know if the guy is breaking in to steal your TV, or if hes breaking in to shoot your dog and then rape/murder your family as part of some gang initiation.
usarmy15t86
04-10-11, 21:21
There are many variables to consider during a home invasion, and I think those variables are best discussed in another thread, of that specific topic.
So, back to the original one... I'm curious, has anyone here had any experience with the PDX ammo? Or even know where to find any lately?
I'm glad some of you have been sharing some of your preferred loads. And the 3.5" VS. 3" VS. 2 3/4" ideas make perfect sense.
So, back to the original one... I'm curious, has anyone here had any experience with the PDX ammo? Or even know where to find any lately?
.
I just picked up a bunch of it...Walmart, Im gonna be tryin it out tomorrow. Ill send you a pm if you like
usarmy15t86
04-11-11, 22:54
Awesome! Wal-Mart in coastal Georgia isn't too great, but I managed to order some from Bass Pro online. I should have some soon! I hate the fact that there isn't much of a selection of Personnel Defense ammo readily available. Most gun shops around me have tons of Wolf and foreign made ammo for sale though...
Awesome! Wal-Mart in coastal Georgia isn't too great, but I managed to order some from Bass Pro online. I should have some soon! I hate the fact that there isn't much of a selection of Personnel Defense ammo readily available. Most gun shops around me have tons of Wolf and foreign made ammo for sale though...
So I did a test on the PDX today...you wont be disappointed.
memphisjim
04-12-11, 16:12
first to iraqguns i live alone in a brick house im not worried about over penetration sure i doubt there is much advantage to the 3 1/2 over 3inchers but i can so why not
but this is changing soon currently in the mail i have several boxes of ddupleks hexolit32 coming i think it will be my new hd round
freakin nasty
Ive got the winchester "military grade" buckshot on sale at Cabelas a few months ago. Pattern is more than tight enough at household range in my 1300, Id like to SBS it and chop the barrel to 14" as well.
Ive got the winchester "military grade" buckshot on sale at Cabelas a few months ago. Pattern is more than tight enough at household range in my 1300, Id like to SBS it and chop the barrel to 14" as well.
I found that Military Grade /Winchester Super X patterned like crap
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/prc77509th/winmilbuck.jpg
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/prc77509th/DSC01856.jpg
I found that Military Grade /Winchester Super X patterned like crap
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/prc77509th/winmilbuck.jpg
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/prc77509th/DSC01856.jpg
Mine did a bit better than yours, they stayed on paper. Barrel is a stock 18" defender barrel.
Glock17JHP
04-15-11, 13:29
Just curious what everyones preference on shot (slug, 00, 000,) is for home defense AND what brand. I really like the Rem. 2 3/4" 00.
Winchester Ranger (RA1200) 'Low Recoil' 9-pellet 00 Buckshot... patterns to 4 inches at 30 feet... :)
Winchester Ranger (RA1200) 'Low Recoil' 9-pellet 00 Buckshot... patterns to 4 inches at 30 feet... :)
Thank you. Im gonna try that out. 4" Is a really nice pattern at that distance. Im a really big fan of the Ranger ammo. I carry Hydrashock and Ranger in my M&P.
I don't know many people with a 25 yard shot inside their house. Just saying.
Im interested in the PDX stuff, hope some pics are posted as well as a report.
I don't know many people with a 25 yard shot inside their house. Just saying.
Im interested in the PDX stuff, hope some pics are posted as well as a report.
He's just sayin that in case it WOULD be a shot at that distance, the shot stays together nice. 4" at 25 or 30 would mean its a nice tight pattern at 7 to 10.
friendlyfireisnt
04-15-11, 17:17
I keep my Mossberg 500 loaded with Federal LE 00 with flight control wads, like others here. I patterned them and two other types from 5-25 yards. I very impressed with the pattern on the flight control loads.
We cut two bbls to 14" and quickly found buckshot was no longer a serious option with a cylinder bbl. If you cut it choke it.
And call me a wimp if you want but after a few boxes of 3" & 3.5" Turkey rounds and I decided never again. 2 3/4 for me. I would reconsider with an auto loader. My right thumb bruised my freaking cheek when shooting them from my 870.
usarmy15t86
04-15-11, 20:46
Well, I just got 2 boxes of the Winchester PDX in 12 ga. and if the weather holds out this weekend, I should be able to get some range time in. We'll see! If not, I'm gonna have to wait another week or three :(
I'll try to take pics if I can!
The Federal Tactical LE-132 low-recoil 00 buckshot with FliteControl Wad @ 1145 FPS.
http://frankbaumer.com/Heartland%20Pictures/More_Pics/Federal_Tactical_00buckshot_Low_Recoil_LE13200B.jpg
I tried some of that a few weeks ago. That wonderful FliteControl Wad kept the pattern to a single 1" hole at 30' away (cylinder bore barrel on an 870). Not sure what it has over slugs at that point. In a shotgun, I want an actual pattern at 30', not a single hole the size of a quarter.
Glock17JHP
04-16-11, 00:14
He's just sayin that in case it WOULD be a shot at that distance, the shot stays together nice. 4" at 25 or 30 would mean its a nice tight pattern at 7 to 10.
Well said... yes, that was my point EXACTLY!!!
Glock17JHP
04-16-11, 00:15
And call me a wimp if you want but after a few boxes of 3" & 3.5" Turkey rounds and I decided never again. 2 3/4 for me.
Agree... why have excess recoil if you don't need it!!!
I tried some of that a few weeks ago. That wonderful FliteControl Wad kept the pattern to a single 1" hole at 30' away (cylinder bore barrel on an 870). Not sure what it has over slugs at that point. In a shotgun, I want an actual pattern at 30', not a single hole the size of a quarter.
And I meant that a pattern at 25 yards is not a reasonable representation of a home defense scenario. The 4" pattern at 30 is excellent.
FWIW,
I have a vang comped 870 and it shoots almost too tight for HD, there is no spread at typical hd ranges with it, just a ragged hole, even with cheap buckshot, I would prefer a 4-6 inch pattern anyway.
Glock17JHP
04-17-11, 19:02
BKS,
I sort of feel the same way as you on pattern sizes. I would use the Federal 'Flight Control' buckshot loads if I were LE where it could be a likely scenario to get in shootouts at ranges that might approach or be over 50 feet. In my HD situation where I have chosen Winchester Ranger buckshot I doubt I would ever see that, so I like the Ranger buckshot better.
At 30 feet (with my shotgun) I see 2 inch patterns with the Federal 'Flight Control', 4 inches with the Winchester Ranger, and 7-8 inches with non-LE 'regular' buckshot loads.
BTW, if I were going to use the Federal 'Flight Control' loads at all, whether LE or civilian... I would prefer rifle-type sights on the shotgun, too.
Just curious what everyones preference on shot (slug, 00, 000,) is for home defense AND what brand. I really like the Rem. 2 3/4" 00.
Federal 00 buck 2 3/4" (LE133-00). It patterns well from my 870.
I'm a #4 buck guy. I live in a apartment and do not want buck going thru a bunch of walls. I have even been know to load up BB. I used to load OO buck, but that was when I lived in the country.
I'm a #4 buck guy. I live in a apartment and do not want buck going thru a bunch of walls. I have even been know to load up BB. I used to load OO buck, but that was when I lived in the country.
There is a trade off with this though. If the bad guy is wearing thick clothing, you most likely are not going to get enough penetration.
If you are concerned about over penetration, then you should really move away from the SG and look at the AR.
C4
Actually I like my 45 HK USP for room clearing. I can run doors handles, weapon retention is easier, the light is run by one hand, I can use the phone, blah blah blah. And I generally don't room clear, because I haven't been thru any corses in a while, and all I need to do is get my fam to the safe room, baracade up, and all that. the 12(I don't have one right now, ran into hard times) was for the ol' lady.
I'm a #4 buck guy. I live in a apartment and do not want buck going thru a bunch of walls. I have even been know to load up BB. I used to load OO buck, but that was when I lived in the country.
That is same as FF birdshot, except lead.
Birdshot, because of its small size, does not have the mass and sectional density to penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach and damage critical blood distribution organs. Although birdshot can destroy a great volume of tissue at close range, the permanent crush cavity is usually less than 6 inches deep, and this is not deep enough to reliably include the heart or great blood vessels of the abdomen. A gruesome, shallow wound in the torso does not guarantee a quick stop, especially if the bad guy is chemically intoxicated or psychotic. If the tissue crushed by the pellets does not include a vital cardiovascular structure there's no reason for it to be an effective wound.
Glock17JHP
04-19-11, 13:12
I'm a #4 buck guy. I live in a apartment and do not want buck going thru a bunch of walls. I have even been know to load up BB. I used to load OO buck, but that was when I lived in the country.
#4 Buck and even BB shot will go through a wall into the next apartment assuming a common wall in between. If you are worried about your shotgun going through walls, consider that anything that will penetrate well enough to be effective will go through a wall if you miss. I know walls have things in them (2X4's, pipes, etc.), but chances are that you will only go through the 2 layers of drywall.
Instead of going down to a smaller (less effective) pellet size, consider switching from the shotgun to another weapon altogether first.
This stuff, it is awesome out of my I/C choked Police Magnum.... Chest rig below is loaded with practice load, Remington 2 3/4" bulk 00 buck.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/mlbartha/0812101223.jpg
The Federal Tactical LE-132 low-recoil 00 buckshot with FliteControl Wad @ 1145 FPS.
http://frankbaumer.com/Heartland%20Pictures/More_Pics/Federal_Tactical_00buckshot_Low_Recoil_LE13200B.jpg
I just bought some XM127-00AC Federal! Idon't have the super tactical shoty! But my Browning A5 12ga Mag will do the job! Ran some through it to see which choke worked with load. I'm going to get an Imp cylinder choke !
Federal Premium with Flight Control. 4" group at 10 yards with my Mossberg 500
Glock17JHP
05-09-11, 13:12
I get a pattern 1/2 that size at that distance with that load... and my shotgun has an 18 inch cylinder-choked barrel!!!
Hmmmmm.....
He's just sayin that in case it WOULD be a shot at that distance, the shot stays together nice. 4" at 25 or 30 would mean its a nice tight pattern at 7 to 10.
But unless it's the only option available, using buck that far out is generally not recommended in my experience. Granted, our work guns have 14" bbls, but we use slugs until we close to 15yrds during quals/training. This is why my HD shotty has Poly-Shok slugs on the side. If for some odd reason I have to take a shot like that... I'll do my best to change it up.
That said, my shotty isn't the first thing I reach for anyway. As has been noted, an AR has many advantages IMHO. More bad guys seem to be making use of soft armor these days.
To stay on topic, my M590 has plain old Winchester OOB in the tube. I did pick up a box of Centurion Multi-Defense (.65 ball w/ 6 #1 Buck doing 1300fps) just to see how it patterns.
I get a pattern 1/2 that size at that distance with that load... and my shotgun has an 18 inch cylinder-choked barrel!!!
Hmmmmm.....
Same here, just patterned it two days ago in fact. Mossberg 590A1, 14" cylinder barrel, ragged 2" hole at 10 yards, and about 5-6" at 25 yards.
By contrast same day, my 14" modified choke 870 did about 6" at 10 yards with 'standard' Federal 00 buck (non-flight control). I didn't bother testing that one at 25 yards :laugh:
Just curious what everyones preference on shot (slug, 00, 000,) is for home defense AND what brand. I really like the Rem. 2 3/4" 00.
For home defense, I would use #4 Buck.
Hate to just jump in on this one but what about low recoil slugs or just slugs in general? I don't like the idea of loading the mag w/ different loads (First 2 rds is birdshot, then 2 of #00 buck, then...) or having to drop a slug into the chamber if I want to hit something @ 25 yrds. I was looking at gel test and most showed slugs penetrating to 16 inches and expanding to 1 inch crescent shapes. Am I wrong to think this is a good thing?
Hate to just jump in on this one but what about low recoil slugs or just slugs in general? I don't like the idea of loading the mag w/ different loads (First 2 rds is birdshot, then 2 of #00 buck, then...) or having to drop a slug into the chamber if I want to hit something @ 25 yrds. I was looking at gel test and most showed slugs penetrating to 16 inches and expanding to 1 inch crescent shapes. Am I wrong to think this is a good thing?
If you are going to use slugs as opposed to a multi-projectile load, why do you have a shotgun in hand? It sounds like a rifle would suit your intended purpose much better. One grabs a shotgun, so he can put multiple projectiles into a target with each pull of the trigger.
I have 5, Federal 3" 000 in the tube, 4, 2 3/4" 1oz and 2 more 3" 000 on the side saddle, I have since swapped the 2 000 to the rear of the saddle.
Nothing chambered, -1 in the tube so I can I go straight to a slug if needed, situation dictates. Different size shells, 2 3/4" vs 3" tell me which is which in the dark just by feel.
Raven Armament
05-15-11, 13:13
My ammunition of choice is my handload of 12 pellets #1 buckshot from a 20 gauge 2.75" shell.
The shotgun in the bedroom is a Mossberg 590 loaded with The Federal Tactical LE-132 low-recoil 00 buckshot with FliteControl Wad. It's only purpose is for when I know something bad is downstairs and everyone in the house is safe, accounted for, and upstairs. The Mossy is my holdout gun at that point with my G19 as back-up. I can take up position by my bedroom door using the door frame as cover and my shot would be pointed downwards towards the entrance to the stairs. Any miss or over shot from the pattern would head into the basement through the floorboards, not my neighbor's house! Clearing the house would be the G19's job as I'm much more familiar with the gun and train with it at daily (dry-fire) and weekly (live-fire).
Glock17JHP
05-16-11, 13:23
But unless it's the only option available, using buck that far out is generally not recommended in my experience. Granted, our work guns have 14" bbls, but we use slugs until we close to 15yrds during quals/training. This is why my HD shotty has Poly-Shok slugs on the side. If for some odd reason I have to take a shot like that... I'll do my best to change it up.
That said, my shotty isn't the first thing I reach for anyway. As has been noted, an AR has many advantages IMHO. More bad guys seem to be making use of soft armor these days.
To stay on topic, my M590 has plain old Winchester OOB in the tube. I did pick up a box of Centurion Multi-Defense (.65 ball w/ 6 #1 Buck doing 1300fps) just to see how it patterns.
The 4 inch pattern at 30 was 30 FEET, not 30 yards. I would not use my shotgun past about 50 feet with buckshot.
NavyDavy55
05-16-11, 15:41
The 4 inch pattern at 30 was 30 FEET, not 30 yards. I would not use my shotgun past about 50 feet with buckshot.
I'll regurgitate what I was taught last week in a handgun/shotgun class.
Generally speaking, as guns and ammo differ greatly.
00 buck 20 yards, all nine pellets on target.
slugs 50 yards
heavytank2
05-24-11, 18:38
I'll regurgitate what I was taught last week in a handgun/shotgun class.
Generally speaking, as guns and ammo differ greatly.
00 buck 20 yards, all nine pellets on target.
slugs 50 yards
Totally agree. I found this out over the last 2 years of practice.
Past 50 with a slug its trajectory = rainbow.
Past 20 with shot in a 18-20" barrel = unsafe spread.
20" Rem 870 w/#4 winchester = head-size spread.
For me anyways.
#4 buck for me. Then 00 later in the mag. I figure if I gotta get past 2 shots. Something is really really wrong and is past the stage of worrying about over-penetration. (That and I don't have much of it around, #4)
I have 5, Federal 3" 000 in the tube, 4, 2 3/4" 1oz and 2 more 3" 000 on the side saddle, I have since swapped the 2 000 to the rear of the saddle.
Nothing chambered, -1 in the tube so I can I go straight to a slug if needed, situation dictates. Different size shells, 2 3/4" vs 3" tell me which is which in the dark just by feel.
I do the same exact thing, I use 00 buck, but I dont keep them chambered for that reason. I like having that choice depending on the situation. God I love shotguns
Remington Reduced Recoil 8 pellet 12guage. My 870 loves it and it works well on people. Easy to control and patterns well out to 26 yards.
sinjinhawk
06-28-11, 22:47
My preference for home defense is federal birdshot
lateralus180
07-04-11, 14:04
I prefer Federal PD 00 Buck.
My preference for home defense is federal birdshot
Birdshot? :confused:
A friendly suggestion, you should acquaint yourself with the terminal ballistics of birdshot and reevaluate.
I use everything from #7 birdshot to a 1oz slug. Way I see it is they all are going to hurt and do the trick on a intruder. Just my .02
My preference for home defense is federal birdshot
What is your reasoning for using birdshot?
Just because bird shot leaves an impressive hole in a cardboard backed target doesnt mean it will do the same to an intruder. Add heavy layers of clothing and it has poor Ballistics Coefficient
What is your reasoning for using birdshot?
Just because bird shot leaves an impressive hole in a cardboard backed target doesnt mean it will do the same to an intruder. Add heavy layers of clothing and it has poor Ballistics Coefficient
That was kind of what I was getting at. I just wanted to know his reasoning. The terminal ballistics on bird shot is actually good agianst birds but terrible on people, heavy clothes or not. It may or may not make them rethink their attack. I don't like may or may not. I like the will of a well placed round of 00 buck.
Glock17JHP
07-08-11, 13:30
Winchester Ranger 'Low Recoil' 9-pellet 00 Buck...
The magazine is full (7 rounds), but the chamber is empty.
I load the magazine 100% full because I will need 00 Buck about 99% of the time. I do not understand only having a single 12 gauge shell in a pump or semi-auto just so I can choose between 2 or more loads 'on the fly'. I figure you may not have the time to take that option in a serious situation... and my scenario is HD, so why would I need to switch to a slug anyway?
Winchester Ranger 'Low Recoil' 9-pellet 00 Buck...
Same here for my HD shotty.
Same here for my HD shotty.
That stuff is NASTY! My personal favorite, the Reduced Recoil, its either green or black. The federal is good too.
Running a 590a1 (51668)
8+1 of these in the gun.
http://www.northwestshootersupply.com/images/products/detail/rem_rr128b00.jpg
They pattern nicely out of my 20" barrel and allow for quick follow up. (And I bought a bunch on sale!)
4 of these in the speedfeed
http://americanmadeoutdoors.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/KO%20Slugs%20BU.jpg
They're the most accurate slugs for my gun that I've tried so far. In all honesty for HD purposes I probably wouldn't need them, but the day I pull them out is the day Mr. Murphy will come a knockin'.
Winchester Ranger 'Low Recoil' 9-pellet 00 Buck...
I use the same for my 870.
Federal 00 buck 2 3/4" (LE133-00). It patterns well from my 870.
Same here.
Federal 00 buck 2 3/4 in the tube and on the ramp and slugs in the side saddle, Just in case I need them!
Glock17JHP
09-03-11, 08:42
Doc,
Thanks for the info and pictures... this is good news, especially for LE...
Long time coming, though!!!
Winchester Ranger 'Low Recoil' 9-pellet 00 Buck...
The magazine is full (7 rounds), but the chamber is empty.
I load the magazine 100% full because I will need 00 Buck about 99% of the time. I do not understand only having a single 12 gauge shell in a pump or semi-auto just so I can choose between 2 or more loads 'on the fly'. I figure you may not have the time to take that option in a serious situation... and my scenario is HD, so why would I need to switch to a slug anyway?
Aside from a few hundred rounds of birdshot while practicing reloads, I think this is the only thing my 14" 870 has ever seen...
Glock17JHP
09-20-11, 19:03
blake g,
I love that load, too (Winchester Ranger RA1200)... but if I were in LE, I would use Federal's LE132-00 or this newer LE132-1B load so I could 'reach out' further in an outdoor scenario, which would be a lot more likely in an LE 'setting'...
http://le.atk.com/pdf/Shotshell_Data_Book.pdf
Do the Sabot slugs HAVE to be used in a rifled barrel?
Ive never tried them.
My understanding is that they are made for a rifled barrel.
Will it work in smooth bore and just affect accuracy? Or is it too small for the smooth bore.
Glock17JHP
09-25-11, 20:06
Yes, sabot loads are designed to be fired in rifled barrels.
However... sabot loads can be fired safely in a smoothbore... I have done it many times. That said, though... they will not be as accurate because of a looser fit in the bore, plus a lack of rifling to give the sabot rotational spin.
I would suspect that the velocity may be slightly lower from a smoothbore, too...
Eurodriver
09-25-11, 20:28
Do the Sabot slugs HAVE to be used in a rifled barrel?
Ive never tried them.
My understanding is that they are made for a rifled barrel.
Will it work in smooth bore and just affect accuracy? Or is it too small for the smooth bore.
You can safely do it, but you'd be wasting your time and money. Rifled slugs would be more accurate and less expensive than sabots out of a smooth bore.
The new Federal #1 buckshot load would be my first choice for use indoors: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=87269.
Outdoors I'll be using a good solid non-Foster type slug like the old 1 oz Rotweil Brenneke (not Brenneke USA) or the Federal (PB127 DPRS) Truball Deep Penetrator 1 oz slug. I do not like sabot slugs and choose not to use them...ever.
Trust me the midset to shoot first and ask questions later is not a good mindset to have either. Violence is not and should not always be the first resort of any action.
Glockmaster was making the point that not everyone will be as impressed at the sight of your shotgun barrel as you might think, and you'd better not rely on that.
Having pointed shotguns at a bunch of people, I'd say besides the "you don't have to aim a shotgun inside your house, just point it at 'em", that's the biggest misconception people have about them.
NCPatrolAR
10-02-11, 17:51
Dont mind me; just rolling through, deleting off-topic posts.
My favorite buckshot is the Winchester Ranger as well. It patterns good enough, I am cheating a bit using a modified choke.
Sorry for the derail NC.
2 3/4" 00 buckshot. Not picky about the brand, winchester, remington, whatever. Figure it won't make a difference in what's it would be used for.
Good thread.
I know someone on here has a 16 gauge or 20 gauge (Mossberg 500) what would you use for either of those that is low recoil and good home def.?
Is there a hybrid you could use for bird/home def or is that not an option?
Good thread.
I know someone on here has a 16 gauge or 20 gauge (Mossberg 500) what would you use for either of those that is low recoil and good home def.?
Federal makes a buffered #1 buck load in 16 gauge and a buffered #3 buck in 20 gauge, that's probably the best you're going to do with those . I don't know of any manufacturers that load OO buck shells in those calibers. Given the already lighter load, I wouldn't be looking for a low recoil load in 16 or 20 even if it is being made.
Is there a hybrid you could use for bird/home def or is that not an option?
No. Birdshot is for birds.
i have a 3.5 inch 00 buck in the chamber then slug,oobuck slug ,slug all 2 3/4 in the tube
I hope this was a joke post... "Dutch" loading a shotgun is a huge no-no...
Low recoil, patterns great.
Just curious is the Federal PD132 a low-recoil load? For some reason I thought it was a standard load.
I tried some of that a few weeks ago. That wonderful FliteControl Wad kept the pattern to a single 1" hole at 30' away (cylinder bore barrel on an 870). Not sure what it has over slugs at that point. In a shotgun, I want an actual pattern at 30', not a single hole the size of a quarter.
This is one of the discussion points that comes up regarding Flight-Control shells... if you need/want THAT tight a pattern, why not switch to a slug at that point?
Anyone who is actually using buckshot for a HD shot at 25yds or more needs to strongly consider the benefits of learning a slug-select technique imho. :)
Whatever you do, every shotgun will pattern differently with different ammo... you have to pattern your own gun at each distance you plan to use it (extrapolation isn't really the best choice) with your ammo of choice.
I keep a stock of Remington low-recoil #00 buck and standard 1oz slugs with the shotgun in the safe, myself.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.