View Full Version : Larue or Noveske
I have a S&W M&P 15TS and I really like it, but I am wanting to upgrade to a higher level rifle. I like the lightweight of the TS and want to stick with something like this. I have narrowed it down between the Larue PredatAR or the Rogue Hunter? Opinions?
I am a huge fan of both. But I lean a little more towards Noveske
Belmont31R
04-12-11, 20:27
LaRue is a better deal since it comes with a Geissele trigger. If you take that out of the equation you are looking at $1330 vs. $1615. The LaRue also has a rail system with more features and for all intents and purposes is one piece so you can mount an optic or sights anywhere with them all being on the same piece of metal.
Larue makes some choices that I don't agree with on their rifles. I would go with the Noveske any day of the week over Larue.
I lean towards Noveske as well but TBH you won't go wrong with either choice. Just shoot the hell out of it once you decide.
Until the Predatar, LaRue didn't have a value option - but it's a definite contender there.
To be honest, a Noveske, Centurion, or GTS upper will shine for accuracy and reliability, with other CHF options (BCM and DD) being better if you run it harder.
You could save some money starting with a BCM Blemished lower, or a DD Stripped lower with G&R LPK and adding the Geiselle trigger of your choice; then adding upper and furniture as you see fit.
Heck, keep your S&W lower, upgrade the trigger in it, buy any upper (GTS, Rainier, Centurion, Noveske, BCM, DD), throw on a good lightweight rail (DD Lite, URX-II, TROY Extreme) and you're in business for a lot less cash.
i think the handguard seems a bit long but the larue comes with the Geissele trigger. honestly id flip a coin on this choice.
Devildog0311
04-13-11, 00:30
Im actually building a noveske right now and had the same issue. Build noveske but slap on some larue handguards. That pretty much filled the void for me.
Why not just change the barrel on the Smith?
Stick a Noveske on there and drive on.
davidjinks
04-13-11, 06:35
Why not just change the barrel on the Smith?
Stick a Noveske on there and drive on.
Can you buy a chrome lined barrel from Noveske separately?
The only thing I see from them is stainless. That's the only thing keeping me from buying a barrel from them.
davidjinks
04-13-11, 06:38
Larue makes some choices that I don't agree with on their rifles. I would go with the Noveske any day of the week over Larue.
I have also been looking at the LaRue uppers for builds.
If you don't mind would you share your thoughts on why you'd take Noveske over LaRue?
Thanks.
Larue makes some choices that I don't agree with on their rifles. I would go with the Noveske any day of the week over Larue.
Out of curiosity, what are these choices they make that you don't agree with?
Robb Jensen
04-13-11, 06:57
Personally I like the Noveske more.
I'm building one of each this week. The only real difference I have found is the Larue upper "stealth" doesn't have extended feed ramps. When I asked Larue, they explained that it isn't needed until a short barrel is used. A 12 inch or so. That the feed ramps actually cause issues in longer barrels.
What I decided to build was a Noveske upper and lower and barrel. A Larue lower a Noveske upper and barrel. I'll run them both and see if I can tell any difference.
The rest of both are Troy and magpul I'm trying Rainer chrome bolt and carriers in both.
I'm building a long barrel with a Larue lower and a Vltor upper and Noveske barrel Troy stuff and BCM bolt and carrier. Trying the Vltor without the forward assist for the heck of it.
Devildog0311
04-13-11, 09:10
Can you buy a chrome lined barrel from Noveske separately?
The only thing I see from them is stainless. That's the only thing keeping me from buying a barrel from them.
Yes you can, they sell them in ss on the noveske website. I cant find a cold hammer forged barrel for the life of me though.
The single biggest issue to me are feedramps. Larue seems to think they know better than the rest of the industry and insists that they are not needed. It may seem like a minor thing, but if I have the choice between a gun with all the right features and one without them then I am going to choose the gun that does it all right.
Also Noveske apparently mixes some ground up unicorn horn into their barrels. They are strait up magical.
jonconsiglio
04-13-11, 10:00
Noveske. The Predatar appears to be pretty nice though. I prefer forged over billet, so that's kept me away from them in the past. Nothing wrong withthem, I just don't really care for billet.
M4 feedramps were meant to correct an issue with issue ammunition and magazines in automatic weapons. They are largely unneeded. Particularly with PMAGs.
Larue makes some choices that I don't agree with on their rifles. I would go with the Noveske any day of the week over Larue.
Same here. I'd pick Noveske over Larue any day, partially for their choices in rifles, but mainly for their business tactics and ethics and the way they wordsmith their responses on another unnamed forum.
Belmont31R
04-13-11, 10:09
The single biggest issue to me are feedramps. Larue seems to think they know better than the rest of the industry and insists that they are not needed. It may seem like a minor thing, but if I have the choice between a gun with all the right features and one without them then I am going to choose the gun that does it all right.
Also Noveske apparently mixes some ground up unicorn horn into their barrels. They are strait up magical.
They are not needed on a semi-auto precision gun. Thats not what they were designed for.
In fact my 2 Stealth uppers have had one malfunction traced back to a weak magazine spring in over 10k combined rounds. More reliable than the Noveske afghan I used to own.
The single biggest issue to me are feedramps. Larue seems to think they know better than the rest of the industry and insists that they are not needed. It may seem like a minor thing, but if I have the choice between a gun with all the right features and one without them then I am going to choose the gun that does it all right.
Also Noveske apparently mixes some ground up unicorn horn into their barrels. They are strait up magical.
If you take that stance with LaRue do you take the same stance with KAC? Just because a company does something different doesn't mean that the performance of the rifle will be diminished.
I own both LaRue and Noveske and I like them both a lot. They are both extremely accurate rifles. I would probably give the accuracy edge to LaRue as I haven't seen any Noveske's winning sniper comps as of late. I know some dialed in end users that believe the OBR is the most accurate rifle on the market at a great price...
If we were talking about FA rifles then maybe the feed ramp point might have a little more merit, but with todays magazine and SA only rifles, I'm not so sure its that big of a deal. If it was, I have no doubt that LaRue would add them as its pretty simple in the overall scheme of things.
When you say all the right features what does that mean? Are you measuring it against the Colt TDP?
It's like asking, what is better lexus or bmw? They are both high end. Both known for quality and function. You can't go wrong. It's all personal preference at this point. Mine is Noveske.
Same here. I'd pick Noveske over Larue any day, partially for their choices in rifles, but mainly for their business tactics and ethics and the way they wordsmith their responses on another unnamed forum.
I was trying to avoid saying this. But since you already said it.... EXACTLY. I tend to avoid Larue products because of the owner.
I was trying to avoid saying this. But since you already said it.... EXACTLY. I tend to avoid Larue products because of the owner.
+1 Nobody is that good.
Can you buy a chrome lined barrel from Noveske separately?
The only thing I see from them is stainless. That's the only thing keeping me from buying a barrel from them.
The Larue uses a stainless barrel, a LW50 Lothar Walther barrel, in a lightweight profile. I'm not 100% convinced lightweight and stainless are a good idea. To me, a CL barrel and a Stainless exist in the AR world for seperate but similar uses. If you want accuracy, a medium profile stainless isn't that much heavier.
Larue's lightweight stainless looks much more aggressive in profile compared to Noveske's lightweight stainless.
I was trying to avoid saying this. But since you already said it.... EXACTLY. I tend to avoid Larue products because of the owner.
Hmm. I only buy Larue because of the owner. Go figure.
I tend to avoid Larue products because of the owner.
Do you ignore all of the good he does for our troops, veterans, the shooting community, the training industry and those who are in need or simply down on their luck?
I can honestly say that I know of very few companies in the firearms industry that do as much or more for their customers and the shooting community as LaRue does. He should probably take a break from the keyboard from time to time, but his goodwill, service and the quality of his products allow me to overlook his online personality. I have also seen him turn an awful relationship into a great relationship by simply putting his pride aside and focusing on the customer and business.
There are a lot of personalities and companies in the firearms industry that have policies that I don't like, but I generally tend to overlook those things because I want the best quality gear that I can buy.
Think about how many people hate Colt, Hk or KAC because of how they treat the civilian market... In the end, they lose out on great weapons over issues that have nothing to do with the weapon itself. Don't get caught up on personalities and miss out on quality gear because of it...
Obviously its your cash and you can spend it with who you like... I'm simply adding my couple pennies.
Do you ignore all of the good he does for our troops, veterans, the shooting community, the training industry and those who are in need or simply down on their luck?
First off, this wasn't/isn't supposed to be about the owner's attitude in general (seeing as my comment generated this response). My comment was in regards to three specific, hypocritical incidents that proved, to me, the company wasn't interested in improving their products or in displaying integrity with those who they might not agree with.
I used to post occasionally on TOS and I was, at one time, a big Larue fan (I had a TA-01 ACOG in a Larue mount). I had upgraded my optics to a NF NXS and was looking for an 30mm scope mount. About this time, Bobro mounts had come out and I decided to give them a whirl (as I wanted to see how good they were). The first thing I noticed immediately was the precision and ease with which the mounting mechanism works. This was a huge improvement over the Larue mount which is tightened with a screwdriver at a 45* angle, then closed with force, grinding against the rail. This results in divots/gouges/removed anodizing... whatever you want to call it, it removes material from the rail. Google "larue mount ar15" on Google Images and you'll see 50 examples of what I'm talking about.
Some time later after purchasing said Bobro mount, a noob comes to the optic forums and asks for pros vs cons between a Larue mount and a Bobro mount. Being a fan of both, I posted several items. One item in particular was that Bobro mounts don't mar your rails (as they mount/clamp horizontally to the picatinny rail in a fashion dictated by the 1913 rail specs). I log off, not thinking much. Coming back on, the owner (Mr. Larue) had written a vehement diatribe calling me out for purposely slandering his product. When I replied that the word "mar" (the word I used to politely describe what a Larue mount does over time to one's rails) was in no way an attempt to insult the company and that it was simply matter of fact, he proceeded to post several more vindictive posts to the point the arfcom mods told HIM to shut it and started deleting his posts (along with my replies to him). When he ignored, the entire thread was subsequently deleted. Deciding to take it a step further, he created a new thread (here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=219&t=193974) in his own subforum, purposely not quoting me and trying to take what I said out of context.
Now, here's my issue with the whole matter: how many times has Larue Tactical (or, more correctly, it's owner) mocked and ridiculed ARMS mounts because they were clinging to an outdated product? The Larue designs worked great because, until recently, nothing worked as well as they did - their solution was a good one at the time. However, the design removes anodizing unnecessarily and works against the 1913 rail design. With the creation of ADM mounts and Bobro mounts, these problems are solved, so there's no need to voluntarily remove the anodizing or divot the aluminum (it's not an issue of being afraid of scratching a rifle, it's addressing a design flaw and the fact you now have a choice not to unnecessarily remove anodizing that the TDP considers necessary). Instead of acknowledging FACT, Mr. Larue felt the need to take a genuine comment out of context and claim it was slander (remember, I was actually a Larue product owner). This is the exact same position ARMS has taken with regard to Larue. This is hypocritical by any standard and it shows a blatant lack of respect.
This actually happened on two separate occasions. The third incident I referred to (which happened before the above) is when Titleist called Larue Tactical to cancel an order for an OBR, politely no less, then purchased a different rifle from another manufacturer a week later or so. Mr. Larue felt it necessary to make a post about Titleist on his own arfcom subforum, calling him names and making fun of him... for canceling an order and then purchasing another rifle from someone else.
Again, this has nothing to do with perceptions or feelings. In my opinion, when a company voluntarily starts an altercation because they think the facts are irrelevant, that's when they lose my business. When they go out of their way to make fun of a customer that chooses to cancel their order, they lose my respect as a professional organization. I'm all for calling a spade a spade, even at the expense of hurting someone's feelings, but when you attacking someone for pointing out the truth, you've got issues.
One item in particular was that Bobro mounts don't mar your rails (as they mount/clamp horizontally to the picatinny rail in a fashion dictated by the 1913 rail specs).
However, the design removes anodizing unnecessarily and works against the 1913 rail design. With the creation of ADM mounts and Bobro mounts, these problems are solved, so there's no need to voluntarily remove the anodizing or divot the aluminum (it's not an issue of being afraid of scratching a rifle, it's addressing a design flaw and the fact you now have a choice not to unnecessarily remove anodizing that the TDP considers necessary). Instead of acknowledging FACT, Mr. Larue felt the need to look quite literally like an idiot by claiming that it was slander (remember, I was actually a Larue product owner).
Not this shit again.
Not to bang on you, but most of the guys who say this are pretty inexperienced. This has been resolved like 50 times already.
Again, I will ask: Have any photos of anodizing being removed by LaRue mount? As in, bare aluminum showing?
What really happens:
What LaRue does is ship the levers with graphite lube on them so when you lock them to a rail and remove, you'll see a smudge of graphite where the lever contacted the rail. Inexperienced (quick to bash) owners think this is the anodizing being removed when in fact it is some of the graphite being left behind. It wipes off with a bit of cleaner in about 10 seconds.
Not this shit again.
Not to bang on you, but most of the guys who say this are pretty inexperienced. This has been resolved like 50 times already.
Again, I will ask: Have any photos of anodizing being removed by LaRue mount? As in, bare aluminum showing?
What really happens:
What LaRue does is ship the levers with graphite lube on them so when you lock them to a rail and remove, you'll see a smudge of graphite where the lever contacted the rail. Inexperienced (quick to bash) owners think this is the anodizing being removed when in fact it is some of the graphite being left behind. It wipes off with a bit of cleaner in about 10 seconds.
Actually yeah I have seen it. I don't have the upper anymore but after about 1K rounds the finish was completely eaten through where the locking lugs made contact. it is a lot more of a problem for bigger optics. I don't think you will see it with something like an Aimpoint Micro but with a scope or full sized aimpoint it is possible.
Also I know very experienced instructors and Gunsmiths who will tell you the same thing about the mounts.
Again, I will ask: Have any photos of anodizing being removed by LaRue mount? As in, bare aluminum showing?
Please leave off the veiled insults if you expect a civil response. I've had experience with Larue products since April of 2009 and, yes, I still get Christmas cards from my purchasing of Larue products from the dillo-dust man himself (probably because he hasn't tied my username to my real name). If you had taken the time to read my post, you'd see my first mount was a Larue. They most certainly do remove anodizing from rails:
http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_WxlrhdDsogw/TXbPcXpLkZI/AAAAAAAABB4/gZLA1bEvM6k/LT100%20Rail%20Marks.jpg
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad283/BUILDINGTHEPASS/2011_0326marks0002.jpg
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad283/BUILDINGTHEPASS/2011_0326marks0004.jpg
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad283/BUILDINGTHEPASS/2011_0326marks0005.jpg
There are SEVERAL reports of Larue mounts gouging rails, all being tightened to Mark Larue's advice: "Adjust levers to where they are tough to close and a b*tch to open." The mounts, by function and by the laws of physics, will remove rail material with EVERY open and close operation. This is why the 1913 rail specs call for horizontal mounting locks, not vertical (the Larue mounts put pressure on the weakest part of the rail). Nightforce optics specifically advises not using QD mounts like the Larues because the removing of material changes where the mount rests, if even barely, which can affect the return to zero point.
Let's not turn this into a mount debate.
Belmont31R
04-13-11, 14:05
LT mounts can wear through the anodizing. I still use them, and recently got a TE mount for a specific application. I don't really think its a big issue though. I wore mine through on one upper because I installed and removed the mount so many times. The mounts also don't need to be super tight. I've used LaRue mounts on two 308 guns now and no loss of zero even with just moderate lever force. Boiled down I think the anodizing thing is because people over tighten them and then install/remove them constantly. My SR25 now has over 3100rds with LaRue mounts, installed and removed a few times, and there is zero wear on the receiver now that I don't tighten the **** out of them.
The issue with Titleist was squared away between two grown men. I was pissed off about it at the time, too, but they resolved it. Good enough for me.
Each mount has their own negatives.
Never owned a complete Larue rifle, but have owned 3 or so Noveskes. SS and CHF.
Both are top shelf brands, but I tend to go with what I'm familiar with.
Also Noveske apparently mixes some ground up unicorn horn into their barrels. They are strait up magical.
Back on topic....this made me LOL in class just now...haha
Personally I will probably never buy anything but Noveske.
I feel like Noveske is a rifle maker, making rifles whereas LaRue is a mount maker, who happens to make rifles as well.....and before I get blasted, I have nothing bad to say about LaRue, I like their products, AND YES LaRue makes nice, accurate, dependable rifles, but when you have Noveske to compare to as another option, to me, the obvious choice would be Noveske.
KAC would also be a top tier DI choice.
Assuming the OP didn't know.
As to the mount wear, it happened to my upper, but it was a spikes blem...
Belmont31R
04-13-11, 16:03
Back on topic....this made me LOL in class just now...haha
Personally I will probably never buy anything but Noveske.
I feel like Noveske is a rifle maker, making rifles whereas LaRue is a mount maker, who happens to make rifles as well.....and before I get blasted, I have nothing bad to say about LaRue, I like their products, AND YES LaRue makes nice, accurate, dependable rifles, but when you have Noveske to compare to as another option, to me, the obvious choice would be Noveske.
The only thing Noveske does is finish contour and chamber barrels.
All their rails, BCG's, receivers and small parts are made outside their shop. Their new forged flared magwell lowers are the only thing besides barrels Ive seen them do, and even then I don't think they are doing the machining.
Ive got nothing against Noveske, and have owned a couple of their uppers. I was using their uppers when they still used LT rails. And not that LT doesn't get some of their components from outside sources but LT makes a lot more of their guns than Noveske does.
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad283/BUILDINGTHEPASS/2011_0326marks0005.jpg
That looks like it was way over tightened. The one at the far left looks like a divot in the rail.
The instruction I received with every Larue rail was that with the lever at 45, it should just be making contact. You shouldn't be digging material out of your rail.
All their rails, BCG's, receivers and small parts are made outside their shop. Their new forged flared magwell lowers are the only thing besides barrels Ive seen them do, and even then I don't think they are doing the machining.
I'm pretty sure CMT, LMT and LAR make just about 80% of the stuff on the market, regardless of who you buy it from. The others are barrel blanks, of which there aren't that many makers, even less steel sources, of which there are basically two. I have a CMT LPK with the same trigger/hammer stampings as Colt ones. The machines and equipment involved in CNC operations are simply too expensive for small companies making realitively low quanities of parts. This industry just isn't that big.
Belmont31R
04-13-11, 16:20
I'm pretty sure CMT, LMT and LAR make just about 80% of the stuff on the market, regardless of who you buy it from. The others are barrel blanks, of which there aren't that many makers, even less steel sources, of which there are basically two. I have a CMT LPK with the same trigger/hammer stampings as Colt ones. The machines and equipment involved in CNC operations are simply too expensive for small companies making realitively low quanities of parts. This industry just isn't that big.
I realize that but LT puts more of their in house products into the gun than Noveske does. LT is making the entire upper, rail, and I think now the lowers, too. I have been to LT quite a few times and they are always busy bees making things.
Colt does outsource some parts but they also go through an extensive in house test before they are put into guns.
I know there are only a few forgers in the US....but Colt does machine their big parts in house. A cerro forge upper made by Colt is probably going to have a lot more QC than a Del Ton cerro forge upper.
I will say its splitting hairs, and you can't go wrong with either. If one cant decide on brand name they should break down what you get on each rifle. The LT is cheaper, comes with a SSA trigger, Ion Bond barrel, one piece top rail, and Magpul furniture. The rail is a newer trend being a tube being able to accept attachments where you want them with factory made parts.
That looks like it was way over tightened. The one at the far left looks like a divot in the rail.
We can speculate all we want, but the fact is that the end-users reported tightening them according to spec. Further, the very way the mounts tighten will remove anodizing. To say otherwise defies physics. Lastly, Mark Larue said to one user, quote, "Adjust levers to where they are tough to close and a b*tch to open." You can't blame the users when the mounts don't come with (or didn't at the time of the event) concise directions saying to tighten to X-in/ft lbs. Most all quality mounts do (Nightforce, Bobro, etc).
If anything, most other quality mounts in question cannot be overtightened without the mounts themselves breaking first. Because the Larue design attaches "incorrectly" (according to 1913 specs) by putting pressure vertically to the underside of the rail, it does damage it when over-tightened.
Again, let's not turn this into a mount debate. If you want to continue discussion, please PM me.
I realize that but LT puts more of their in house products into the gun than Noveske does. LT is making the entire upper, rail, and I think now the lowers, too. I have been to LT quite a few times and they are always busy bees making things.
Unless something changed in the very recent past, LT doesn't make their lowers. They're machined in Washington State IIRC. Forgot the name of the manufacturer.
The only thing Noveske does is finish contour and chamber barrels.
In John Noveske's interview by Defense Review, he listed many more steps they take to make the Pac Nor blanks into Noveske barrels, an important one being the rifling, even speaking on the tooling he designed to do those operations.
I couldn't agree more that between Larue and Noveske, one has to split hairs. I went with Noveske parts on my most recent build because I could get exactly the features I wanted, not because I was aligned with a particular brand. At the price points in question, I wouldn't settle on any features. Get exactly what you want and run with it. Both are very capable systems.
Heck, keep your S&W lower, upgrade the trigger in it, buy any upper (GTS, Rainier, Centurion, Noveske, BCM, DD), throw on a good lightweight rail (DD Lite, URX-II, TROY Extreme) and you're in business for a lot less cash.
Good advice here. I'd suggest the Apex 12" handguard and Vltor A5 buffer system.
davidjinks
04-13-11, 18:30
Yes you can, they sell them in ss on the noveske website. I cant find a cold hammer forged barrel for the life of me though.
Well, I was happy to read this post…
Then I called Noveske this afternoon…
If you want a chrome lined barrel, you have to buy a complete upper from them…WTF!?!?
Littlelebowski
04-13-11, 18:52
How is your Smith not fulfilling your needs? Be specific.
Noveske would be my pick.
Thanks for all of your opinions. I believe that after looking over these two rifles again, I can not justify paying (roughly) 200 dollars more for the Noveske, when I can get a quality rifle from Larue and then use the extra to help purchase a mount for my JP sight. Once again thanks.
If I were to purchase one it would be the Larue. I do own several Larue rails and mounts, but not an upper or rifle.
That said, the reality is I will not buy either one as I can build a gun that fits my needs using quality parts for less.
I have never read any of Mark Larue's posts, but I have met him and spoken to him on a few occasions. I have always found him to be a decent person to deal with and very giving of his time.
Please leave off the veiled insults if you expect a civil response.
No veiled insults here. Nothing personal.
From what I've seen over the years since LaRue's been around:
Six out of 10 guys think the graphite is in fact anodizing coming off. They retract and feel silly when they realize it wipes off in 10 seconds.
The next three out of 10 guys are mechanically challenged and have no business working on firearms (or anything else for that matter). They improperly adjusted the locking lever way past the point of common sense to get huge deformations like the ones you've shown. Plus, they are putting it on and taking it off hundreds of times for some reason. One has to ask why? (As Belmont stated, it's not a surprise that huge chunks of anodizing missing after users massively overtighten the levers and install/remove the mounts over and over. Aluminum to steel contact. Tight. Stuff will wear.)
The tenth guy is a hardcore user with a properly adjusted mount but he beats on his rifle harder than most. Still, he is getting much lighter wear than the ones you've shown. His wear is legitimate but nothing to write a diatribe about.
I don't think you can go wrong with either depending on your purpose and what all you want in a rifle. For semi auto rifle I don't think you will see a huge difference as barrel accuracy is highly individual whether it's a great barrel or just a good one. I have a rifle built using components from both company but the barrel is a fluted mid-length medium profile Noveske SS/ Chrome lined special run they did a few years back. It's highly accurate. The rail system is Larue.
I agree in just picking the best parts for your rifle if you're doing a custom build. If you want an off the shelf rifle or if you can swing it, the KAC SR15 E3 IWS looks really good. Personally that's my next AR rifle for sure.
vicious_cb
04-14-11, 05:34
No veiled insults here. Nothing personal.
From what I've seen over the years since LaRue's been around:
Six out of 10 guys think the graphite is in fact anodizing coming off. They retract and feel silly when they realize it wipes off in 10 seconds.
The next three out of 10 guys are mechanically challenged and have no business working on firearms (or anything else for that matter). They improperly adjusted the locking lever way past the point of common sense to get huge deformations like the ones you've shown. Plus, they are putting it on and taking it off hundreds of times for some reason. One has to ask why? (As Belmont stated, it's not a surprise that huge chunks of anodizing missing after users massively overtighten the levers and install/remove the mounts over and over. Aluminum to steel contact. Tight. Stuff will wear.)
The tenth guy is a hardcore user with a properly adjusted mount but he beats on his rifle harder than most. Still, he is getting much lighter wear than the ones you've shown. His wear is legitimate but nothing to write a diatribe about.
You are wrong, Ive used larue mounts before they put that nasty brown grease stuff on their mounts and it did remove the anodizing from the rail. Why do you think they started putting grease on the locking levers in the first place? Whether is actually causes a problem is the real question. Personally I think removal of the anodizing is a bad thing which is why I moved away from larue mounts.
Belmont31R
04-14-11, 05:44
I think the point is that people think 'QD' means they should play with their guns, and they end up taking mounts off and putting them back on way more than needed. Now the only time I take a mount off is if I change the optic out for another or if I clean the gun (once every few thousand). I figure if I shoot the gun 20k rounds Id only need to take off the mount less than than 10 times at the very most.
If you leave the shit on, and only take it off when necessary than you're not going to get wear that goes through the anodizing. If you want to play legos with it then you may end up with wear. I don't see why a tiny spot of wear is something to make a deal of, though. There are other spots that see far more wear.
Belmont31R
04-14-11, 05:44
Thanks for all of your opinions. I believe that after looking over these two rifles again, I can not justify paying (roughly) 200 dollars more for the Noveske, when I can get a quality rifle from Larue and then use the extra to help purchase a mount for my JP sight. Once again thanks.
I think you will enjoy the hell out of it.
Nothing was wrong with my Smith, I really like it, but the fiancée said she would like to get an AR like mine. So I decided to let her have the TS and upgrade mine. Why look a gift horse in the mouth.
I just got my LT stealth upper and totally love it. No regrets. I have it paired with a BCM lower though because BCM lowers are milled from forged aluminum not billet.
Whats the deal with LT's owner?
I am looking to get an Aimpoint T1 for my rifle and I was checking out the mounts for it. I saw the QD mounts and the first thing that came to mind was that the latch was going to grind on my guard. It makes sense production wise because it's simple and it does work. But because of the fact that it does obviously grind on the guard, it seems like a not so good idea. This is why I dont not want a QD mount. UNLESS,... I fashioned a thin piece of steel to wedge between the guard and the latch. This way the latch grinds on the piece of sacrificial steel. That would be a worst case scenario though.
vicious_cb
04-14-11, 13:05
I think the point is that people think 'QD' means they should play with their guns, and they end up taking mounts off and putting them back on way more than needed. Now the only time I take a mount off is if I change the optic out for another or if I clean the gun (once every few thousand). I figure if I shoot the gun 20k rounds Id only need to take off the mount less than than 10 times at the very most.
If you leave the shit on, and only take it off when necessary than you're not going to get wear that goes through the anodizing. If you want to play legos with it then you may end up with wear. I don't see why a tiny spot of wear is something to make a deal of, though. There are other spots that see far more wear.
The only gun that has a QD mount is my 5.45 AR which gets the optic removed everytime I shoot/clean because I have to give my barrel a hot water bath to remove to remove the corrosive salts.
Conversely may I ask you the question, why spend more money and deal with excess weight if you are only going to remove your optic 10 times in 20k rounds? Why have a QD mount if you arent going to use the capability often?
Littlelebowski
04-14-11, 13:10
I don't remove my Micro when I rinse my 5.45 :D
Belmont31R
04-14-11, 13:15
The only gun that has a QD mount is my 5.45 AR which gets the optic removed everytime I clean. And thats because I have to give my barrel a hot water bath to remove to remove corrosive salts.
Conversely may I ask you the question, why spend more money and deal with excess weight if you are only going to remove your optic 10 times in 20k rounds? Why have a QD mount if you arent going to use the capability often?
Because there are very few non QD scope mounts, if any, that offer the same level of overall quality, price point, and will work with an AR putting the scope far enough forward to give enough eye relief AND at around 1.5" above the rail.
KAC makes some forward canted mounts but they are more expensive. They want almost $400 for a 20MOA mount.
Nightforce makes one but their rings do not have steel inserts for threading so they are a no-go for me.
I don't really need to see the need to detach the optic all that often, and even if you do what is a tiny little wear mark going to do?
vicious_cb
04-14-11, 13:15
I don't remove my Micro when I rinse my 5.45 :D
Yeah, yeah. We all know you're a 5.45 cleaning ninja ;)
...Conversely may I ask you the question, why spend more money and deal with excess weight if you are only going to remove your optic 10 times in 20k rounds? Why have a QD mount if you arent going to use the capability often?
Mine is on a patrol rifle and if something should happen to my Aimpoint that would prevent me from using it or my MBUS sights, sighting through the Aimpoint tube, then given time and distance I want the ability to ditch the Aimpoint and use my MBUS.
vicious_cb
04-14-11, 13:21
Because there are very few non QD scope mounts, if any, that offer the same level of overall quality, price point, and will work with an AR putting the scope far enough forward to give enough eye relief AND at around 1.5" above the rail.
KAC makes some forward canted mounts but they are more expensive. They want almost $400 for a 20MOA mount.
Nightforce makes one but their rings do not have steel inserts for threading so they are a no-go for me.
I don't really need to see the need to detach the optic all that often, and even if you do what is a tiny little wear mark going to do?
Fair enough. When I buy a QD mount it because I actually want to use to QD feature, as often as I like.
I don't really care about the wear marks on my 5.45 since its well a beater/training gun but we don't actually know if it could be a problem long term since I don't think anyone's tested it. Ie. removing and attaching the mount and taking measurements over X number of cycles to see if there's a change in the rail dimensions.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.