Another Kaboom!

[Iraqgunz]

I saw this posted on another website that I belong to. I don't remember if it was posted here, but that other kaboom thread got me thinking.

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/04/2_east_longmeadow_police_offic.html

The weapon in question was a S&W M&P15. One of the members of the site posted an update that the weapon was examined and apparantly the ammo was to blame.

I don't know if that's true, but here is the info in case anyone wants to check it further.

Federal XM193 Lot #V492555

[Jimbo45]

Oh man. I like to have this type of info, but I hate reading about these incidents. Again, glad no one was seriously hurt, which seems to be a common trend, at least. It sure does seem, that in several of the last handful of KB's I've read about in the past few years, XM193 seems to be a likely cause. Probably because it may be the most widely used ammo, in high volume of fire training, but still....

[RyanB]

I have yet to learn of an AR15 KB that was not caused by the ammunition.

[ZRH]

I have yet to learn of an AR15 KB that was not caused by the ammunition.

Most KBs are out of battery discharges. AR 15 can't so, aside from the chamber exploding/locking lugs breaking off.

[RyanB]

Exactly. Whereas when a Glock 40 blows up I assume the round was fine but it must have been setback from being chambered twice.:suicide2:

[ZRH]

I was thinking of M1 Carbine/Garands o.O

[wetidlerjr]

Everyone needs to read the first comment posted about the article. It seems S&W weapons are "junk" and that it was an "M n R" rifle. :cool:

[kaltesherz]

Ouch. Thanks for the info, just checked my lot #'s. While I see lots of complaints regarding XM193, it's usually for the popping primers and not kabooms thankfully...

[irocracer89]

Thanks for posting that, may have to reconsider my purchase...

[BCmJUnKie]

Everyone needs to read the first comment posted about the article. It seems S&W weapons are "junk" and that it was an "M n R" rifle. :cool:

WOW...its fun when people know what they are talking about lol (sarcasm):sarcastic:

[Jimbo45]

Thanks for posting that, may have to reconsider my purchase...

If you are seriously taking KB's caused most likely by bad ammo, into consideration for a gun purchase, then I guess you shouldn't buy a Colt then (sarcasm):
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/colt-ar-15-kaboom/
Come on people, KB's have happened with probably MOST of the major brands of guns, over time. And what is the cause, 99% of the time?....the ammo.

Disclaimer: I don't own any S&W products. In fact, as far as long guns go, I only own Colt and BCM uppers, and one DD.

[nihilbilly]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/colt-ar-15-kaboom/


Looks like that was also XM193.

Makes you wonder about the reason they don't call it M193.

[Stan9106]

Here's a link to the original post about the Colt Kaboom, by the rifle's owner. If you read to the bottom, it turns out it was PRVI Partizan M193, not XM193.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=385176

[scoutfsu99]

Thanks for posting that, may have to reconsider my purchase...

:rolleyes:

[ForTehNguyen]

havent people been having problems with XM193s getting blown primers (overpressure)? I've seen it a few times elsewhere.

[DirectDrive]

Everyone needs to read the first comment posted about the article. It seems S&W weapons are "junk" and that it was an "M n R" rifle. :cool:
The Peanut Gallery :rolleyes:

It will be interesting for follow this kaboom investigation in that there is a good chance that competent individuals will be involved.

[MistWolf]

havent people been having problems with XM193s getting blown primers (overpressure)? I've seen it a few times elsewhere.

What do you mean by "Blown Primers"? If you mean the primers pushed out of their pocket, that's from too little pressure.

If you mean there's a hole where the firing pin struck it, that's a pierced primer and the firing pin is the culprit.

If you mean the primer falls out of the pocket and can be pushed back in with a finger, that's an expanded primer pocket and that's from pressure

[rob_s]

Been looking for pics of the gun in the OP for awhile now. Anyone seen any?

[SomeOtherGuy]

It sure does seem, that in several of the last handful of KB's I've read about in the past few years, XM193 seems to be a likely cause. Probably because it may be the most widely used ammo, in high volume of fire training, but still....

I've noticed the exact same thing. And while the XM193 is common, so is the Winchester equivalent (Q3131 and Q3131A), not to mention various ammo including claimed NATO pressure loads from PMC and other high volume, relatively low cost brands. Why am I not reading about kabooms from Q3131, PMC and Prvi Partizan?

[SpaceWrangler]

I've noticed the exact same thing. And while the XM193 is common, so is the Winchester equivalent (Q3131 and Q3131A), not to mention various ammo including claimed NATO pressure loads from PMC and other high volume, relatively low cost brands. Why am I not reading about kabooms from Q3131, PMC and Prvi Partizan?

From this thread... https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=79590

Post #26...

https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=979407&postcount=26

[SomeOtherGuy]

Thanks SpaceWrangler... so that thread (which I wasn't following so closely) indicates Prvi in the recent TOS kaboom, and someone else referring to PMC in one of his personal kaboom experiences. Interesting.

[DirectDrive]

Seems like these ammo recalls should be more at the forefront.
Do these ammo companies want to move as quietly as they can get away with ? (IMO, yes.)

I found some Federal .45ACP on recall and some Winchester 5.56 :
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=303456
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/03/04/winchester-5-56-ammunition-recall/

Haven't found anything on Federal XM193 but now I'm leery.

[SpaceWrangler]

Thanks SpaceWrangler... so that thread (which I wasn't following so closely) indicates Prvi in the recent TOS kaboom, and someone else referring to PMC in one of his personal kaboom experiences. Interesting.

And I've got 1700 rounds of PMC Bronze (Made in Korea). :rolleyes:

I guess I can pack it away in ammo cans for the zombie attack and buy cases of something else to shoot.

http://www.blogginginamerica.com/images/tom-anderson-beavis-butthead.jpg
Dammit, dammit, DAMMIT!

I'd like to think that it's our (internet) access to all this information that makes these Kabooms seem frequent. Here on the Interwebz, they seem to come along every couple months or so. In contrast, I spent six years in the Marines (pre-internet) and never even heard of an M16 exploding.

Production is key in the ammunition business, so much so that it's very near impossible to inspect each and every round being spit out of a machine at the rate of thousands an hour. But I wish these cats would be more careful about what they're putting in the boxes for mass consumption.

[kaltesherz]

And I've got 1700 rounds of PMC Bronze (Made in Korea). :rolleyes:

I guess I can pack it away in ammo cans for the zombie attack and buy cases of something else to shoot.


You really can't panic every time you hear of an ammo failure, it's like everything man-made: imperfect. You really think 1 or 2 incidents out of millions of rounds makes a certain ammo bad? Also remember we don't know the exact circumstances... could be over charged ammo or maybe a projectile got pushed in and caused over-pressure. Anyway, my point is you can't take an incident or two and turn it into a panic.

Unless you want to let that dangerous PMC 5.56 go, then I will gladly take it off your hands...

[SpaceWrangler]

You really can't panic every time you hear of an ammo failure, it's like everything man-made: imperfect. You really think 1 or 2 incidents out of millions of rounds makes a certain ammo bad? Also remember we don't know the exact circumstances... could be over charged ammo or maybe a projectile got pushed in and caused over-pressure. Anyway, my point is you can't take an incident or two and turn it into a panic.

Unless you want to let that dangerous PMC 5.56 go, then I will gladly take it off your hands...

I know it. I'm going to the range after I get off work in the morning, shooting the PMC. :D

[Jimbo45]

You really think 1 or 2 incidents out of millions of rounds makes a certain ammo bad? ...

I guess if you were the person that fired the one or two 'bad' rounds, than I suppose you probably would consider the ammo 'bad'. :D

[kaltesherz]

I guess if you were the person that fired the one or two 'bad' rounds, than I suppose you probably would consider the ammo 'bad'. :D

No, I'd consider myself '****ed'

[Killjoy]

Been looking for pics of the gun in the OP for awhile now. Anyone seen any?

I have some of the photos given to me by the department, but I'm not going to post them on public forum as there is an official investigation underway.

Suffice to say the entire receiver split on the right hand side. There was no barrel obstruction and the rifle was 4 years old with many thousands of rounds through it.

I posted this on an earlier thread:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=79590&page=2