Bore troubles?

[polymorpheous]

I have a pinned 14.5" CHF barrel.
I'm not an avid cleaner, about every 1,000 rounds.
It has about 5,000 rounds thru it.

My routine is to run a patch soaked with CLP thru the bore.
Strip, wipe, assemble, and relube the BCG.
Then I run a brush down the bore once followed by 2 dry patches.
Done.

So this weekend I ran a bunch of that corrosive Yugo stuff thru my AKM.
It was also raining.
Needless to say, I cleaned my AK as soon as I got home.
The AR was due so I gave it a cleaning.
That's when I noticed what appears to be the chrome lining flaking off of 2 of the lands right in front of the gas port running about 1.5 - 2" towards the muzzle.

Upon discovering this i soaked a patch in BC gunscrubber and ran it thru.
Let it sit for about 10 minutes and ran a brush thru.
Ran some dry patches thru.
No dice! It's still there!

I'm trying to get a good picture of the bore, but none are coming out.

Any thoughts?

Edit: I can't get a single good picture of it. But it is on the lands, not in the grooves.
As I said, it starts from the gas port and runs about 2 inches towards the muzzle.
I noticed that my crown is caked with carbon.
I hope BKB is right. I paid a fortune for this barrel!

[bkb0000]

current chrome lining methods don't allow for the chrome to flake... it's not thick enough, and is actually sort of soaked into the steel of the bore, rather than than coating it.

but aside from these facts, you can wear through the chrome.

i'd just watch it, see if it spreads and how quickly... if it does start to spread, you might want to contact the manfer and see if they want it back.

also... i've had, in my life, carbon deposits that looked, to me, like wear through the chrome, but later turned out to just be, as i said, weird carbon deposits. are you SURE thats not what it is?

also, again- to get pictures of a specific spot in a bore, set up the camera, splash light in from the far end, then grab something to use as a focal point and set it next to the barrel at the same spot where the target area is... let the camera focus on the focal point, then shift the aperture into the bore and snap the pic. usually works great.

[polymorpheous]

current chrome lining methods don't allow for the chrome to flake... it's not thick enough, and is actually sort of soaked into the steel of the bore, rather than than coating it.

but aside from these facts, you can wear through the chrome.

i'd just watch it, see if it spreads and how quickly... if it does start to spread, you might want to contact the manfer and see if they want it back.

also... i've had, in my life, carbon deposits that looked, to me, like wear through the chrome, but later turned out to just be, as i said, weird carbon deposits. are you SURE thats not what it is?

I have no idea.
Babe in the woods when it comes to this kind of stuff.
Couldn't find anything relevant using the orange button up top.

The BC bore scrubber doesn't say anything about carbon.
Just copper and nitro.

I'm googleing to find some pics.

[Iraqgunz]

I use carbon remover and Barrett's Bore Gel every so often to remove any build up. I am wondering if you simply have a build up issue.

CLP is far from ideal when it comes to removing carbon or copper build up.

[Littlelebowski]

Always clean copper when accuracy drops off. I recommend an actual copper solver like Montana Copper Killer or Boretech.

[MistWolf]

Keep an eye on it & see if it grows, but as long as it still shoots good, no worries, mate

[Sgt_Gold]

Barrel bore chrome plating is applied using and electric current and a solution containing the chrome alloy. It's a timed process that aplies the coating at a known rate, but it's not perfect. Sometimes it's thicker or thinner in spots, which is why some chrome plated barrels are more accurate than others. The area just in front of the gas port is prone to excessive wear due to the fluid dynamics of the expanding gas as the bullet passes the gas port. I've seen numerous M16's that has some excessive wear of the lands and groves in this exact same spot. It's also possible that you have more crud built up in that spot. Crud holds moisture, and moisture causes issues. I seriously doubt the 'damage' is going to reduce the life span of the barrel, or cause any other issues.

[polymorpheous]

I'm gonna order some Carbon Killer this weekend.
I'll post an update.

Thanks for the input fellas!
:)

[Blankwaffe]

No real need to make a special order.
Go to your local Wal-mart or gunshop and buy a 4oz. jar of Hoppe's No.9 Nitro solvent.
Wet a patch with the Hoppe's No.9 solvent and anoint the bore,then pull a bore brush through the bore a couple times.Wet another patch with Hoppe's No.9 and punch the bore again.
Pick a corner in your house and place a shop towel and stack of news paper on the floor to catch the crap that migrates out of the bore,then stand the upper muzzle down and let it soak overnight.Next day repeat the process,dry patch when done and you should be good to go.Saves patches,elbow grease and is easier on the bore.
Been doing this for 30 years and it works extremely well.
And before anybody says it,yes the Hoppe's No.9 Nitro is a old timey smelly(I like the smell)petro based solvent and is a bit slow at removing copper,but will get the job done safely if allowed to soak for awhile.
Otherwise it penetrates carbon extremely well.I use it frequently on black powder barrels that have excessive coke in the breech.
Its also my go to bore solvent for everything else including as a dunkit solution.

Should get the job done for under $5.00 and you won't have to wait for a order to come in.

[Suwannee Tim]

current chrome lining methods don't allow for the chrome to flake... it's not thick enough, and is actually sort of soaked into the steel of the bore, rather than than coating it....

I have worked with electrochemists and platers, helping with the machines and the like and have some familiarity with it. The degree of difficulty and the science and art involved in high performance plating is not much appreciated. Many of these processes are difficult to keep in spec. It is possible this barrel is defectively plated. I habitually use the word "plated" rather than "lined", to me a lining is fabricated, then inserted into the pipe, tube, tank or whatever.

[ZRH]

That part of the barrel wears faster than other places.

http://m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8233&stc=1&d=1303470153

[polymorpheous]

No real need to make a special order.
Go to your local Wal-mart or gunshop and buy a 4oz. jar of Hoppe's No.9 Nitro solvent.
Wet a patch with the Hoppe's No.9 solvent and anoint the bore,then pull a bore brush through the bore a couple times.Wet another patch with Hoppe's No.9 and punch the bore again.
Pick a corner in your house and place a shop towel and stack of news paper on the floor to catch the crap that migrates out of the bore,then stand the upper muzzle down and let it soak overnight.Next day repeat the process,dry patch when done and you should be good to go.Saves patches,elbow grease and is easier on the bore.
Been doing this for 30 years and it works extremely well.
And before anybody says it,yes the Hoppe's No.9 Nitro is a old timey smelly(I like the smell)petro based solvent and is a bit slow at removing copper,but will get the job done safely if allowed to soak for awhile.
Otherwise it penetrates carbon extremely well.I use it frequently on black powder barrels that have excessive coke in the breech.
Its also my go to bore solvent for everything else including as a dunkit solution.

Should get the job done for under $5.00 and you won't have to wait for a order to come in.

Thanks for the info, but I buy SLiP products.
:)

[polymorpheous]

No dice fellas!

Ran a patch soaked in SLiP Carbon Killer thru it.
Let it sit for a while, ran a brush thru a couple times, then a clean patch.

It's still there.

[Littlelebowski]

So.....is it shooting any differently?

[polymorpheous]

I generally shoot close.
Under 25 yards.
Hard to tell. Suggestions?

I've got about 4-5000 rounds through it.

I do know that this barrel is $340 + what I spent having the barrel nut/delta assembly, FSB, and extended A2 pinned and installed.
Came out to over $400!

I wish I could get a pic of it, but I just can't get the camera to focus down the bore that far.

The abnormal part is only on the lands, the grooves are fine.

[Littlelebowski]

Stop worrying about it.

[polymorpheous]

Can you elaborate on that?

[ZRH]

Can you elaborate on that?
I think he's going for the "it performs adequately for its use." If you don't shoot it at a long enough range to actually see any difference and it isn't effecting operation there isn't much to worry about.

[polymorpheous]

I think he's going for the "it performs adequately for its use." If you don't shoot it at a long enough range to actually see any difference and it isn't effecting operation there isn't much to worry about.

My club has up to 600 yards.
About a month ago a friend and I were shooting steel out to 300.
So I do shoot longer ranges occasionally.

I'll have to ask him if he remembers anything inconsistent about my shots.
I remember thinking that my zero must be shit.
Hit the steel just fine with irons on my AKM.

[ZRH]

Yeah, I'm thinking that if it's effecting accuracy and wont clean up you might be looking for a new barrel. Hoppes 9 and brake cleaner usually take off anything, if they don't it might be burned into the actual barrel.

[polymorpheous]

I've sent an email to the manufacturer.

[Littlelebowski]

I've sent an email to the manufacturer.

I think you're making much ado about something you can't quantify.

[polymorpheous]

I took it out to 100 yards benched.
I couldn't get the barrel to group tighter then 12" with irons or my Aimpoint with M193 ammo.

A week before this I zeroed a BCM upper at 50 yards and kept it in a 2" dot with iron using the same ammo so I know I can do my part.

I tore the upper down, contacted the manufacturer, and they sent me a return label.
I'll be dropping it off at UPS tomorrow.

Will continue to keep this thread updated.

[Lomshek]

No dice fellas!

Ran a patch soaked in SLiP Carbon Killer thru it.
Let it sit for a while, ran a brush thru a couple times, then a clean patch.

It's still there.

Not that is sounds like copper is the issue anyway but the one thing Carbon Killer doesn't affect is copper. If I were concerned about cleaning a bore 100% I'd be looking for one of the copper cleaning solutions.

From SLiP's website..."Carbon Killer provides you with a safe effective way to clean carbon, lead and plastic wad fouling."

[polymorpheous]

Not that is sounds like copper is the issue anyway but the one thing Carbon Killer doesn't affect is copper. If I were concerned about cleaning a bore 100% I'd be looking for one of the copper cleaning solutions.

From SLiP's website..."Carbon Killer provides you with a safe effective way to clean carbon, lead and plastic wad fouling."

I think you missed the part where I said I also used BC Gunscrubber.

[spamsammich]

DD is a stand up bunch. You're in good hands. Chalk it up to shit happens.

Hmm... This is your BCM isn't it? Either way, they'll take good care of you.

[polymorpheous]

Sorry buddy.
I'm not going to name the manufacturer at the moment.
Gonna have to go ahead and speculate. ;)
BCM, DD, Noveske, KAC.
All are hammer forged.

[polymorpheous]

I think you're making much ado about something you can't quantify.

Problem quantified.
It IS a problem.
It SHOULD be shooting tighter groups.

[spamsammich]

There's no speculation needed, all somebody needs to do is look at your previous posts. You built several rifles quite publicly. The BCM 14.5" with the pinned barrel being the most recent yeah? At least you went to them first before naming them. No harm in saying it now. We're all grown ups.

[polymorpheous]

There's no speculation needed, all somebody needs to do is look at your previous posts. You built several rifles quite publicly. The BCM 14.5" with the pinned barrel being the most recent yeah? At least you went to them first before naming them. No harm in saying it now. We're all grown ups.

Nopers!
No BCM 14.5" for me.
I'd like one though! In the mid-length flavor, pinned BC1.5.
Can I have yours?:jester:

[polymorpheous]

Seriously though.
The manufacturer is going to remain unnamed until the issue is resolved.
I will go into detail about what they report back to me and their level of customer service.
I KNOW I'm in good hands.
But I just want to pay the company a little respect in sorting all of this out with me.

[spamsammich]

My mistake, maybe I had you confused with somebody else.