View Full Version : Why no more box magazine lever actions?
Hey guys
http://i.imgur.com/qXrqO.jpg
http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=015C&mid=534070
http://world.guns.ru/rifle/repeating-rifle/usa/winchester-m195-e.html
Does anyone know why all the current levers use tubular magazines instead of a box-type mag? The box-type mag gives the lever the capability to use normal pointed rifle rounds, as well as faster reloading via stripper clips.
It seems all the popular levers now are tube mag types. Does anyone know why? Some kind of design flaw with this old Winchester? :confused:
You are right about the stripper clip being a faster way to reload. A removable magazine is even faster. The invention of LEVERevolution pointed bullets probably takes the incentive out for many manufacturers.
Crow Hunter
04-18-11, 18:22
Browning still makes a mag fed lever. Just about every caliber available in a bolt rifle.
There really aren't that many manufacturers of lever guns left.
What Browning, Marlin and Henry? Did Winchester ever start back up production?
The lever gun died off after the popularity of the bolt gun took off, spawned (in my opinion) by WWI.
Barring any legislative interruptions, I see the bolt guns losing market share to the AR pattern rifle in the future due to the current War on Terror.
But I have been wrong, once or twice.:laugh:
Why?
A bolt action will be more accurate, generally speaking, and since the only application I can think of would be hunting, the need for multiple shots is very, very remote, so no need for stripper clips.
If you wanted to refight the Spanish American War with an updated lever action, have at it, but the US Army rejected the M1985 Winchester as a general issue arm because of the complexity/reliability of the mechanism compared to a bolt action, and the difficulty in using one when firing prone.
I'm frankly surprised that Browning still catalogs the BLR, they can't sell many per year.
Why?
A bolt action will be more accurate, generally speaking, and since the only application I can think of would be hunting, the need for multiple shots is very, very remote, so no need for stripper clips.
If you wanted to refight the Spanish American War with an updated lever action, have at it, but the US Army rejected the M1985 Winchester as a general issue arm because of the complexity/reliability of the mechanism compared to a bolt action, and the difficulty in using one when firing prone.
I'm frankly surprised that Browning still catalogs the BLR, they can't sell many per year.
Well, the 'why', I assumed, was the market that I assumed existed for lever guns. I guess I've misunderstood. :(
For me in particular, having the choice between a lever and bolt forced upon me by legislation, the lever is tempting because it's more practical/faster. But I suppose it doesn't have much bearing in America. :)
I had *not* heard of the Browning BLR before, I had just seen the Marlins and Winchesters. :o That pretty much solves my quest, I guess. Sorry for wasting space with my lever thread. :(
No worries.
If I were in your situation I'd probably go with a Browning BLR if you can readily get one, in a caliber that is relatively inexpensive for you to have a good supply of.
Bottom line- box magazine lever actions don't sell very well
Savage 99 ??
Also not in production any more. :(
Bottom line- box magazine lever actions don't sell very well
I just don't understand why the tube levers would sell better. :confused:
Oh well. For the time being there is the Browning BLR. I'm looking hard at it, however, the mechanism does seem a bit.. finicky. Complicated.
Tube mag levers sell better because they are traditional and provide a slimmer profile with a higher capacity, particularly with traditional lever action calibers. Just think what 7 rounds of 45-70 in a box magazine would do for the profile of your rifle!
Why spend that kind of cash on a 308 Browning Lever Action when one can pick up a 308 bolt action with a smaller cross section, simpler more robust action with better accuracy?
Point.
You know what, I'll just get a Marlin lever, and a .308 bolt action later. :p
Sciuirse Morrigna
04-20-11, 11:17
I think the why is a matter of practicality.
The lever action was the assault rifle of the 19th century.
Along came the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and the bolt action rifle, and shortly thereafter the spitzer-point bullet, giving unheard of performance. It was around that time that the box magazine lever actions came into vogue. Some people just never trust the new technology, but now they could have their tried and true levergun in the new high performance cartridges.
However, a lot of guys came back from WWI with an appreciation for what the bolt action brought to the table and wanted those over anything else. As the popularity of such increased, the desire for box magazine leverguns dwindled.
From that point, up to now, the vast majority of leverguns are bought by people with a traditional bent, and cowboy reinactors, with a much smaller base of people who use them for self defense because they aren't allowed self loading weapons, and in some case aren't allowed bolt actions.
If you want to argue speed, you can easily keep up with a levergun firing rifle length cartridges with a Mauser. Throw a K31 and especially an Enfield -- No.1 MkIII or No4, or No5 -- and you can load just as fast as the stripper-clip fed levergun, and with the open top receiver of a bolt gun, you can load faster single loading that you can shove the cartridges through a loading gate of a tube fed lever.
And the K31 and Enfield are probably the fastest manually operated actions there are, and the Enfield can hold up to 10 rounds of .303. So, from a practical point of view, the box-fed lever action has no purpose, and the traditionalist market for them is tiny compared with the market for traditional tube-feeders.
There's the Sako Finnwolf (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=226096014), a European made lever action. I've never seen one, but if they're as well made as other Sako rifles, should be pretty nice.
Some more info.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/lever_action.htm
There's the Sako Finnwolf (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=226096014), a European made lever action. I've never seen one, but if they're as well made as other Sako rifles, should be pretty nice.
Some more info.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/lever_action.htm
An interesting oddity to be sure! I had no idea Sako made levers back in the day.
Unfortunately, like so many other promising products, it has been discontinued. :(
An interesting oddity to be sure! I had no idea Sako made levers back in the day.
Unfortunately, like so many other promising products, it has been discontinued. :(I'd recommend you get a used one, they're unlikely to be in bad condition considering how seldom a hunting rifle is fired.
Otherwise, there's still the Browning Lever Rifle, BLR. Not cheap, but very well made. Hope you have a deep purse.
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=003B&catalog_=B&content=BLR-Rifles
My uncle has, I believe, a BLR in 30-06 that I used on a pig hunt on his land a few months back. it was a really nice rifle.
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm229/killerchase2000/Pig.jpg
MountainRaven
04-21-11, 19:36
Did Winchester ever start back up production?
Yes.
Although whether or not their production has been negatively impacted by the earthquake and tsunami are questions I don't know the answer to.
ETA: There are also the numerous Winchester replicas made in Italy and Brazil.
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