View Full Version : Noob looking for some advice
Hey just bought my first AR the other day it is a S&W M&P 15 sport
pretty basic AR and had a few questions if you guys don't mind helping out
first off it came with one 30 round pmag and i have sense ordered another 30rd and two 20rd pmag's for it. Anyway I was wondering if anyone out there had gone though any ammo tests with this gun and found what seems to produce the tightest group out of it. I picked up some cheap Herter's 62 grain hollow points(40 of em), also some 55gr Remington FMJ(40) and also got a big bag of what looks like tulammo hp's(I think 61 rounds). Has anyone used any of these and if so how did it work out?
Also was looking to put an extended quad rail system one it but can't find a pick of an A3 with one to see what it looks like.
Probably just going to throw the rails, a flashlight and a red dot on it for the time being along with nixing the rear sight that came with it and going with a flip up. If anyone has an idea for a cheap but not to cheap red dot please let me know and also.
thanks for the help
Jess
Leonidas24
04-18-11, 18:53
Hmm interesting. What attracted you to the M&P15 Sport?
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g169/ncc1984/Yourfriend.jpg
I'm new to the AR platform too. I've had many other types of weapons but this is my first set of rifles outstide of a .22lr.
This is what I'm doing regarding red dots. I'm saving my money to buy ammo to learn how to shoot with the iron sights. Only after I'm as proficient with my iron sights will I look into getting a red dot.
That is my advice to you as well. Learn how to shoot the iron sights and become extremely proficient before adding anything to it.
Hmm interesting. What attracted you to the M&P15 Sport?
price mainly because it is my first one and i want to get comfortable with it before i go out and spend big bucks
I think I got an aneurysm reading that.
A good red dot is going to cost half as much as an entire rifle [just looked up price of S&W, it's going to cost 3/4s of the entire rifle]. There is no point in spending money twice.
Here we go again.
This post serves no purpose--care to explain you position further?
OP. The short answer is even if someone has the exact same model as you, every rifle is going to be different. You need to just shoot different brands and see what you're rifle likes. However none of the ammo you listed is going to provide you with match type groups so don't set your expectations too high.
Also since you stated that this rifle was so you could learn about the platform, IMHO you should do exactly that. Don't worry about rails, changing sights etc. Buy ammo (think cases of 1000, not boxes of 20) and go shoot the gun. Learn what you like, don't like, and what actually needs to be changed to fit your needs before you just go changing things.
Primary arms makes some cheap red dots, I'd check them out. I dunno about ammo, I mostly just shoot XM193F
Here's a link to primary arms' red dots:
http://www.primaryarms.com/category.sc?categoryId=419
Hey just bought my first AR the other day it is a S&W M&P 15 sport
pretty basic AR and had a few questions if you guys don't mind helping out
first off it came with one 30 round pmag and i have sense ordered another 30rd and two 20rd pmag's for it. Anyway I was wondering if anyone out there had gone though any ammo tests with this gun and found what seems to produce the tightest group out of it. I picked up some cheap Herter's 62 grain hollow points(40 of em), also some 55gr Remington FMJ(40) and also got a big bag of what looks like tulammo hp's(I think 61 rounds). Has anyone used any of these and if so how did it work out?
Also was looking to put an extended quad rail system one it but can't find a pick of an A3 with one to see what it looks like.
Probably just going to throw the rails, a flashlight and a red dot on it for the time being along with nixing the rear sight that came with it and going with a flip up. If anyone has an idea for a cheap but not to cheap red dot please let me know and also.
thanks for the help
Jess
I'll bet you're going to hear some of this over and over from other folk here, but what the heck- I might as well throw my 2 C's in.
KISS- Seeing how this is your first AR, the best thing to do with it right now, is do nothing. Just buy a bunch of mags and ammo, and get to shooting. Give yourself a chance to get a feel for the gun as is, before tinkering with it. Forget the rails and all the other stuff for now.
When you get to looking for a light, don't cheap out- get a good one from a reputable manufacturer. Obviously, some lights are not made to be mounted on a weapon....as well as some mounts are junk too. Plenty of info on here about that.
Also, there is no such thing as a cheap red dot, as I learned much to my chagrin...:p As previously stated, if you want a serious, reliable red dot, get ready to dish out some money.
On a side note, if you just end up hating the standard handguards, or this is intended to be used as a defensive weapon, it is my un-expert opinion that you take a look at Magpul's MOE handguard. Really comfortable, and you can still mount a light.
For what it's worth, from a noob to a fellow noob...
What you need is prcatice, then, more practice.A good course or three would help.Take the rifle apart, test ammo, etc.Then, get your game on with a Colt or Bravo gun, also other recommended types.Then practice some more.You'll get the idea and remember, safety first.
thanks to everyone for the info
SAVE YOUR MONEY FOR QUALITY OPTICS.
Primary arms makes some cheap red dots, I'd check them out. I dunno about ammo, I mostly just shoot XM193F
Here's a link to primary arms' red dots:
http://www.primaryarms.com/category.sc?categoryId=419
Oh, I did, I wouldn't put a primary arms dot on my BCM or DD, but on a $500 s&w I might... I guess buying an H1 or eotech would be a good investment for him, but you wouldn't even put a cheap dot on a cheap gun like that?
Buying a crappy red dot and then buying a good one costs MORE than just buying a good one. You can use optics on other firearms it's not like they are permanently affixed.
Shit is shit, whether it's hard or diarrhea.
Oh, I did, I wouldn't put a primary arms dot on my BCM or DD, but on a $500 s&w I might... I guess buying an H1 or eotech would be a good investment for him, but you wouldn't even put a cheap dot on a cheap gun like that?
Like everyone has said shoot, shoot, and shoot some more. Then make decisions on what you want to do with it. Also congrats on your M&P15, and you don't HAVE to have a Colt or BCM (don't get me wrong they are amazing companies) to get your "game on". You made a good decision, very good choice for your first AR. Listen to Iraqgunz better to save up and go with a quality optic you know with out a doubt will serve you well no matter what.
Every gun is different with ammo. Just shoot as many different kinds of ammo as you can and try to find that ammo that your M&P loves. My M&P15 LOVES Brown Bear 55gr. Which is nice because the price is great on that stuff :) Its worth a try for your M&P15.
Again congrats and go have fun!
Shit is shit, whether it's hard or diarrhea.
Gunz you crack me up man :sarcastic: I just shot my drink out my nose and the wife is looking at me like I am nuts :laugh:
OP- Buy ammo and more Ammo and shoot until you find what your weapon likes.as said DON"T BUY CHEAP OPTICS it took me a while but I saved up for a Aimpoint which is almost the cost of your weapon.learn the Irons upgrade down the road and then worry about a optic
Dirtyboy333
04-19-11, 03:12
I agree with buying quality optics OP but if your just looking for a nice but cheap red dot to have some fun and shoot with IMHO Primary Arms more than fills the role.
I bought their M3 clone for my sig 522 and I've since moved it to a 556. I wouldn't trust my life to it if I had the choice but it was $69 and that's not gonna put u too far behind while u save for an AP. Mines held zero just fine and although I've never flat out dropped the gun upside down on the sight I have bumped it around a bunch. For fun or practice it does everything an AP does minus battery life and ruggedness. It even has the nice look of an AP. IIRC it has a 1year warranty so even considering it broke IMO it would still be worth the money for a year of use.
Regardless if you buy one or not you still need to save for an AP or somethin similar.
Primary arms sells a ton of those fake aimpoints, I guess they must work. Personally I'd save up and look for a used aimpoint, but it sounds like you are just setting up a rifle to fool around with, not a dedicated defensive rifle.
You'd be better off learning irons first
Whiskey_Bravo
04-19-11, 08:01
Shit is shit, whether it's hard or diarrhea.
lol, that is just about sig worthy right there. A lot can be learned from such simple statements of wisdom.
SHOOT YOUR GUN, then SHOOT IT SOME MORE.
Dont waste your money on a china p.o.s. sight. (take it from a guy that did and learned his lesson)
Ammo and mags, now theres something to spend your money on. Save for an eotech/aimpoint/acog/whatever.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=77928
Shoot your carbine.
Since the issue of POS Chinese optics was brought up, I thought I would post this here.
Hi William
Our Primary Arms red dot sights, mounts, etc., like so many others, are made in China.
Unlike many other products and manufacturers our products are scrutinized, tested, quality checked, and continuosly improved.
Thanks
Geoff
So if you feel comfortable buying optics made in China, that are in some cases clear ripoffs of quality optics made by companies that have invested alot of time, money and R&D into their products by all means do so.
Primary arms makes some cheap red dots, I'd check them out. I dunno about ammo, I mostly just shoot XM193F
Here's a link to primary arms' red dots:
http://www.primaryarms.com/category.sc?categoryId=419
Primary Arms will be perfect for you at this stage. Decent red dots with a one year warranty and the owner (Marshall) is great to deal with. Now I have an Aimpoint on my go to rifle, and if you are going to stake your life on this gun i suggest you get the real deal. But for plinking rifles, the Primary Arms will serve the purpose.
Please explain why they would be perfect? Why can't he use iron sights? What if it takes a shit on month number 13? Why advocate use of some shit instead of just saving up for a good optic?
Is there a dire need for a red dot sight right now?
Primary Arms will be perfect for you at this stage. Decent red dots with a one year warranty and the owner (Marshall) is great to deal with.
Because he is new to the hobby and price is a major factor in his buying decision at this point - hence the M&P sport. Many have never laid eyes on a red dot and are reluctant to shell out the cash for an Aimpont, or an Eotech.
I know youR stance on buy once, cry once, but these red dots are a good way for a new person to test a theory without sinking a wad of cash.
Iraqgunz, I respect your viewpoint and I'm not going to change your mind and I'm not trying to. Just presenting an alternative.
Because he is new to the hobby...
This is precisely why many, and now myself, recommend that he shoot irons first. It would be best for him to get used to the basics first and then make an informed decision based on his needs as to what optics, etc... to later add to his weapon.
I concur with learning to shoot irons first. You need to learn distance shooting as well as close in reflex shooting with the irons. The AR15 sights are surprisingly easy to use - even if you have old eyes like me :D
While I would never put a knockoff optic on my ar15s, if he wants to get a red dot to try out, I think the primary arms dots are a cheap way to experience them. If he later saves enough for an aimpoint or eotech, the pa dot could always go on a .22 or something.
I do agree with iraqgunz tho, i'd rather use my iron sights than buy a cheap dot.
Thought it was obvious, and by the following posts after mine, I think it is.
If you don't like the thread, why post in it?
jackblack73
04-19-11, 20:56
I bought a PA Micro Dot because after doing a lot of research I didn't find one bad review. I put it on a good mount (ADM) to make sure it would return to zero. I'm glad I didn't spend the money on an Aimpoint because I learned that red dots just do not work with my eyes because of my astigmatism. But it was cheap enough that I'll probably just keep it anyway.
i feel i really need to clarify that i am going to learn to shot iron sights first. the gun came with a little fixed rear sight and that will be sighted in and shot plenty of times before any optic goes on.
was just trying to get any suggestions for a red dot and also to see what type of rail system would be recommended... was looking at a UTG extended rail from CTD.
in regards to the ammo the range i usually go to in garland will not allow FMJ so i will be shooting HP's more than anything
In the time it takes you to figure out what ammo your rifle likes, and how to shoot with the irons, you'll enough money saved to buy a quality optic.
If you don't have a problem ripping off hard working Americans in favor of a Chinese knock-off, then buy a PA.
Go with quality.
i feel i really need to clarify that i am going to learn to shot iron sights first. the gun came with a little fixed rear sight and that will be sighted in and shot plenty of times before any optic goes on.
was just trying to get any suggestions for a red dot and also to see what type of rail system would be recommended... was looking at a UTG extended rail from CTD.
in regards to the ammo the range i usually go to in garland will not allow FMJ so i will be shooting HP's more than anything
The UTG stuff is airsoft grade, and I would highly advise just leaving the carbine stock until you can get a war fund set up to get a quality optic and mount (Aimpoint, Eotech, ACOG; LaRue, BoBro, ADM mount), and if you really want a rail system, Troy, Daniel Defense, LaRue, Knights Armament, all make excellent systems. You also might want to look at the Magpul replacement forend.
ghettomedic
04-19-11, 22:17
Best advice I can give you is found right here:
GO SHOOT THE GUN! (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=28658)
One fellow who used to work at my place who's very giddy about his S&W M&P MOE asked what type of "scope" (as he eloquently put it) I have on my rifle and how much it cost me. I told him. . .Long story short, he ended up buying from E**y some G&P "Military Type" Red Dot Sight and a G&P "Tactical" Flashlight setup for his rifle. He told me he can't see why one would pay soo much $$$ when it could be had for $50 something and change that he paid for. After a while, he said that the "scope" (as he eloquently put it) he bought keeps coming loose after shooting a couple of magazines and wondered why.
Anyways, lots of sound advice being given here.
I don't think that the OP will follow any of our advice as of right now. It's very difficult for many civilians who pick up their first gun to resist the urge to buy shit accessories for them thinking that they really don't need the "military grade" stuff.
The problem is that it doesn't become apparent how bad the "shit" really is until you actually decide to start using the gun in a more serious role.
OP, I'm going to share with you my experience. I bought a M&P15 ORC during 3/2009 (Obamamania). I spent about $300 immediately on a Magpul CTR stock and a set of Midwest Industries BUIS, which aren't bad, but I now prefer Troys. The other thing I did remotely right was to purchase a Eotech512, instead of a total piece of shit RDS.
Then began the downward spiral...I got a UTG carbine quadrail (about $60), which, when I first got it, I thought it would be fine for my purposes. I eventually realized that it was a piece of shit and poorly constructed with low quality metal.
I then corrected this huge mistake with another one...this time a YHM Diamond series quadrail (about $150 w/ taxes). I chose this because I thought that it was good enough, and I wasn't LE or military, so I didn't need to drop $200+ on a more quality rail. I also had to replace the heavy gasblock that comes with the ORC as it is a brick and won't fit under most FF rails. I used this set-up for a few hundred rounds and realized that it was machined very rough, was as wide as a soup can, and was heavy as a brick. The round shape made it very difficult, if not impossible, to mount a light using a low profile offset mount. This mistake was FINALLY corrected with a Troy TRX Extreme (about $200 w/ taxes) which I researched after reading review after review on this site. As you can see, I spent around $400+ total, trying not to spend $200. Ultimately, I did recoup some of the money by selling off the other stuff, but I could have just purchased the correct thing the first time around.
Nothing I own has failed me in a class because I've spent time and money fixing issues before they popped up after reading loads of information from this site.
Most people will have similar experiences of buying cheap and buying twice. Listen to me, and don't be the dumbass I was and don't buy shit you don't need.
I don't think that the OP will follow any of our advice as of right now. It's very difficult for many civilians who pick up their first gun to resist the urge to buy shit accessories for them thinking that they really don't need the "military grade" stuff.
The problem is that it doesn't become apparent how bad the "shit" really is until you actually decide to start using the gun in a more serious role.
OP, I'm going to share with you my experience. I bought a M&P15 ORC during 3/2009 (Obamamania). I spent about $300 immediately on a Magpul CTR stock and a set of Midwest Industries BUIS, which aren't bad, but I now prefer Troys. The other thing I did remotely right was to purchase a Eotech512, instead of a total piece of shit RDS.
Then began the downward spiral...I got a UTG carbine quadrail (about $60), which, when I first got it, I thought it would be fine for my purposes. I eventually realized that it was a piece of shit and poorly constructed with low quality metal.
I then corrected this huge mistake with another one...this time a YHM Diamond series quadrail (about $150 w/ taxes). I chose this because I thought that it was good enough, and I wasn't LE or military, so I didn't need to drop $200+ on a more quality rail. I also had to replace the heavy gasblock that comes with the ORC as it is a brick and won't fit under most FF rails. I used this set-up for a few hundred rounds and realized that it was machined very rough, was as wide as a soup can, and was heavy as a brick. The round shape made it very difficult, if not impossible, to mount a light using a low profile offset mount. This mistake was FINALLY corrected with a Troy TRX Extreme (about $200 w/ taxes) which I researched after reading review after review on this site. As you can see, I spent around $400+ total, trying not to spend $200. Ultimately, I did recoup some of the money by selling off the other stuff, but I could have just purchased the correct thing the first time around.
Nothing I own has failed me in a class because I've spent time and money fixing issues before they popped up after reading loads of information from this site.
Most people will have similar experiences of buying cheap and buying twice. Listen to me, and don't be the dumbass I was and don't buy shit you don't need.
thanks for the advise... just don't like the look of the stock carbine hand guard... going to put in an order to mag pul when i get paid for 3 more mags, a MIAD grip, MOE handguard and MOE stock, along with the BAD lever, Sling adapter and sling. Just not comfortable with the m4 stock and a2grip, like the feel of the MIAD grip, buddy of mine has one and i love it.
Pathfinder Ops
04-20-11, 19:04
going to put in an order to mag pul when i get paid for 3 more mags,GOOD IDEA a MIAD grip, MOE handguard and MOE stock, WHATEVER along with the BAD lever HOLY CRAP!!!!
A bad Lever!? Really!? Maybe you should learn to shoot your gun before you install a device that changes the manual of arms for the firearm......
Get off the tricked out AR Safe Queen, picture thread, Cool Aid!! AND GO SHOOT THE GUN.
Many of the guys here have said (in this thread) "go out and shoot the gun." Then figure out how to accessorize it based on your needs/ shooting style.
Have I heard you once say or ask anything about best way to go on ammo? If you did I missed it in the blurry, Blah, Blah, Blah of chatter about crappy Chinese optics and MagPul this and that',s that have no bearing on your ability to learn your new sport/ hobby.
I want you to have have the best time with your new gun and I want you to develop all kinds of skills with that gun.
I want you to come on here and say: "hey... I ran a thousand rounds through my gun over the weekend with my irons only and next month I'm scheduled to take (insert training course X here)."
THEN I really want to hear you say: "Hey guys... I've been training a lot and now I'm thinking about putting a decent optic on my gun.... MY research here at M4C suggests I get a (insert optic X), whats your opinion based on my skills and gun?"
I think uwe1 is right..... there seems to be a lack of listening going on.
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
I feel bad for the noobies...
A bad Lever!? Really!? Maybe you should learn to shoot your gun before you install a device that changes the manual of arms for the firearm......
Get off the tricked out AR Safe Queen, picture thread, Cool Aid!! AND GO SHOOT THE GUN.
Many of the guys here have said (in this thread) "go out and shoot the gun." Then figure out how to accessorize it based on your needs/ shooting style.
Have I heard you once say or ask anything about best way to go on ammo? If you did I missed it in the blurry, Blah, Blah, Blah of chatter about crappy Chinese optics and MagPul this and that',s that have no bearing on your ability to learn your new sport/ hobby.
I want you to have have the best time with your new gun and I want you to develop all kinds of skills with that gun.
I want you to come on here and say: "hey... I ran a thousand rounds through my gun over the weekend with my irons only and next month I'm scheduled to take (insert training course X here)."
THEN I really want to hear you say: "Hey guys... I've been training a lot and now I'm thinking about putting a decent optic on my gun.... MY research here at M4C suggests I get a (insert optic X), whats your opinion based on my skills and gun?"
I think uwe1 is right..... there seems to be a lack of listening going on.
Everyone starts somewhere. With the exception of the BAD lever, getting the Magpul kit is a good step.
My first AR carbine was an Olympic Arms 11.5" with a permanent 5.5" fake moderator on it, back 20 years ago. It took me 5 magazines to discover what a piece of shit it was, but there wasn't any internet back then, just Shotgun News and SOF. A Colt R6530 (old school 6520 carbine) quickly replaced it.
I wouldn't have found out what needed fixing until I shot the damn thing.
Anyway, Fetus, enjoy your carbine, stay away from crap accessories that just waste money, and shoot the piss out of the weapon.
Then decide what kind of things you might want to add.
A bad Lever!? Really!? Maybe you should learn to shoot your gun before you install a device that changes the manual of arms for the firearm......
Get off the tricked out AR Safe Queen, picture thread, Cool Aid!! AND GO SHOOT THE GUN.
Many of the guys here have said (in this thread) "go out and shoot the gun." Then figure out how to accessorize it based on your needs/ shooting style.
Have I heard you once say or ask anything about best way to go on ammo? If you did I missed it in the blurry, Blah, Blah, Blah of chatter about crappy Chinese optics and MagPul this and that',s that have no bearing on your ability to learn your new sport/ hobby.
I want you to have have the best time with your new gun and I want you to develop all kinds of skills with that gun.
I want you to come on here and say: "hey... I ran a thousand rounds through my gun over the weekend with my irons only and next month I'm scheduled to take (insert training course X here)."
THEN I really want to hear you say: "Hey guys... I've been training a lot and now I'm thinking about putting a decent optic on my gun.... MY research here at M4C suggests I get a (insert optic X), whats your opinion based on my skills and gun?"
I think uwe1 is right..... there seems to be a lack of listening going on.
i asked about ammo and everyone has said to go shot the gun a figure it out and its raining here on and off the rest of the week so i really haven't had a chance to go to the range. I have read what everyone has said and have taken it in.... and btw im not to sure im going to do "training courses" because i really don't have time for that(at this point in time).
the only reason i am considering the BAD lever is a buddy of mine suggested it
i had no idea what optic was quality and what wasnt that is why i came on here and asked though
don't know what rubbed you the wrong way bro but...
jonconsiglio
04-20-11, 20:24
i asked about ammo and everyone has said to go shot the gun a figure it out and its raining here on and off the rest of the week so i really haven't had a chance to go to the range. I have read what everyone has said and have taken it in.... and btw im not to sure im going to do "training courses" because i really don't have time for that(at this point in time).
the only reason i am considering the BAD lever is a buddy of mine suggested it
i had no idea what optic was quality and what wasnt that is why i came on here and asked though
don't know what rubbed you the wrong way bro but...
Don't worry, he's just pissed that he lives in NY! ;) j/k
Sometimes people have a tendency to be a little rough when they think others aren't listening to advice after a lot of experienced people have taken time out to give it, I often find myself being less tolerant due to some of the stupidity we see so often.
Wait on the BAD lever. It changes the manual of arms and that's something you shouldn't do until you at least understand the standard manual of arms.
If you add the Magpul stuff and a good sling, the rest will eventually fall into place as you go, as long as you are aware of what they may do for you.
I'm all for an optic....eventually. You can get a great Aimpoint like the PRO or a used m3 for very little and it will serve you very well regardless of your use. You don't need to be an operator to appreciate better products. Hell, you could lean your gun on the wall and when it fall, you'll see how bad the PA optics really are. Just an example.
Listen, get yourself to a class, any decent one. You'll enjoy it, but more importantly you'll walk away with the knowledge on how to handle the gun the right way. If you don't and just have some friend show you, you may ingrained some training scars that will be very hard to correct later on. Something that sounds small like the proper grip and stance and understanding the why's about it, learning how to get your gun on target faster and more accurately, learning the correct way to get into shooting positions, etc., will do so much good for you and all you need to do is dedicate one weekend to it and go from there.
Ask for help and enjoy the hell out of it. Read a lot and shoot a lot. There's a lot of help here if you want it.
Jonathan
While I would never put a knockoff optic on my ar15s, if he wants to get a red dot to try out, I think the primary arms dots are a cheap way to experience them. If he later saves enough for an aimpoint or eotech, the pa dot could always go on a .22 or something.
I do agree with iraqgunz tho, i'd rather use my iron sights than buy a cheap dot.
If you don't like the thread, why post in it?
I loved the original post, that's why I posted.
Don't worry, he's just pissed that he lives in NY! ;) j/k
Sometimes people have a tendency to be a little rough when they think others aren't listening to advice after a lot of experienced people have taken time out to give it, I often find myself being less tolerant due to some of the stupidity we see so often.
Wait on the BAD lever. It changes the manual of arms and that's something you shouldn't do until you at least understand the standard manual of arms.
If you add the Magpul stuff and a good sling, the rest will eventually fall into place as you go, as long as you are aware of what they may do for you.
I'm all for an optic....eventually. You can get a great Aimpoint like the PRO or a used m3 for very little and it will serve you very well regardless of your use. You don't need to be an operator to appreciate better products. Hell, you could lean your gun on the wall and when it fall, you'll see how bad the PA optics really are. Just an example.
Listen, get yourself to a class, any decent one. You'll enjoy it, but more importantly you'll walk away with the knowledge on how to handle the gun the right way. If you don't and just have some friend show you, you may ingrained some training scars that will be very hard to correct later on. Something that sounds small like the proper grip and stance and understanding the why's about it, learning how to get your gun on target faster and more accurately, learning the correct way to get into shooting positions, etc., will do so much good for you and all you need to do is dedicate one weekend to it and go from there.
Ask for help and enjoy the hell out of it. Read a lot and shoot a lot. There's a lot of help here if you want it.
Jonathan
thanks i appreciate it...
like i said before i am in no rush for the optic and i appreciate the advice on the BAD lever
thanks i appreciate it...
like i said before i am in no rush for the optic and i appreciate the advice on the BAD lever
I think you'll be fine if you manage to keep your excitement in check. Templar is correct and we all have to start somewhere. I think everyone wants you to get it right because many of us got it wrong the first time around.
I spent more money on gun accessories the first few months than on ammo. I didn't even take my first carbine course until I had owned my rifle for over 18 months and I wasted a lot of money on stuff that I didn't need. Keep this in mind, once you take your first course, it will completely change the way you think about how you equip your gun. So, if you buy a lot of stuff before the first class, you'll probably end up selling a assload of it. I did.
You'll be able to make better decisions once you understand what you need and don't need. The CTR stock is what I prefer, but I slapped the old M4 stock on the other day, and it wasn't too bad either. I personally think that the stock upgrade could wait.
The trigger guard upgrade is inexpensive and not a bad choice to start with.
I tried the MIAD and didn't like it. I prefer Ergo or the standard A2 because I don't have large hands (medium).
The MOE hand guard is a solid choice as well. I personally have an OCD issue with having FF rails, specifically Troy TRX/VTAC Extremes.
A good sling to start with would be a VTAC or Blue Force Gear Vickers sling.
Save up for the optic because as others have already said, you should probably just "buy it once." Otherwise you'll spend $150-200 on a "good enough" optic to find that it isn't and then have to spend $500 on a better one. I would probably purchase the optic before upgrading the stock. A good RDS will improve your ability to run the gun better than a marginally more functional stock.
Pathfinder Ops
04-21-11, 10:50
Don't worry, he's just pissed that he lives in NY! ;) j/k
Sometimes people have a tendency to be a little rough when they think others aren't listening to advice after a lot of experienced people have taken time out to give it, I often find myself being less tolerant due to some of the stupidity we see so often.
HA!!!! LOL NY can make a man seem cranky so I will nod to that one....And yes to the rest of your observation.
FETUS-
No friend you didn't rub me the wrong way and I apologize if you took it like YOU agitated me. In fact I make a point of saying I want you to be successful. Probably the old warrior in me rises to the top with new folks who come along and present threads that sound like they come from the perspective of SPEND before SHOOT.
Also keep in mind it can be hard to get the correct sense across by writing on the internet. Sometimes the written word falls short of the intent of the writer.
Absolutely we all have to start somewhere (Templar's observation). And for the record I too have bought an accessory or two prior to asking for and listening to advice from seasoned members. Witness this thread: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=69967
I too have been in your shoes and am always excited about a build and or tricking out my rig. But I try to temper that.
BUT when I started following your post (over a few days) and watching very sage advice from seasoned folks about slowing down on your accessory buying being superficially acknowledged and followed by statements like:
QUOTE-"thanks for the advise... just don't like the look of the stock carbine hand guard... going to put in an order to mag pul when i get paid for 3 more mags, a MIAD grip, MOE handguard and MOE stock, along with the BAD lever, Sling adapter and sling. Just not comfortable with the m4 stock and a2grip, like the feel of the MIAD grip, buddy of mine has one and i love it.QUOTE
I found my self thinking; "oh great, another 20 something with too much money trying to trick out a gun so he can take pictures of it and never really learn to be safe or effective with it."
That (possibly incorrect presumption) was further validated when I read this:
"QUOTE-im not to sure im going to do "training courses" because i really don't have time for that(at this point in time)."QUOTE
I find it very difficult to accept that you can't find time for a 1 day basic carbine course. Scheduling/ (possible) travel can be tricky no doubt but.......
I won't even get into the observation about it "raining" as a deterrent to training.
There is a lot I'm not saying about these two points because I really don't want to offend.
I guess if you put yourself in the shoes of some of us who have been a little short or seem intolerant you could probably see where we can seem a bit hard on "NOOBS."
It has been said time and time again to new folks who come on and post....
Do some research.
Get out and shoot your BASIC gun before you get to far into accessorizing.
Get / make some training time.
Do some more research.
Accessorize appropriately.
Anyway..... I'm genuinely excited about your joining the ranks of carbine users and please don't take my post wrong.
wasnt using the rain as a training deterant but just saying that it has limited my chances to go to the range and shoot
and as for the courses i meant that i just don't have time for the next few weeks or so(work, holiday's, and vacation coming up) but i will be taking a training course or 2 in the future
sorry for the misunderstanding
and thanks for the best wishes
I think you'll be fine if you manage to keep your excitement in check. Templar is correct and we all have to start somewhere. I think everyone wants you to get it right because many of us got it wrong the first time around.
I spent more money on gun accessories the first few months than on ammo. I didn't even take my first carbine course until I had owned my rifle for over 18 months and I wasted a lot of money on stuff that I didn't need. Keep this in mind, once you take your first course, it will completely change the way you think about how you equip your gun. So, if you buy a lot of stuff before the first class, you'll probably end up selling a assload of it. I did.
You'll be able to make better decisions once you understand what you need and don't need. The CTR stock is what I prefer, but I slapped the old M4 stock on the other day, and it wasn't too bad either. I personally think that the stock upgrade could wait.
The trigger guard upgrade is inexpensive and not a bad choice to start with.
I tried the MIAD and didn't like it. I prefer Ergo or the standard A2 because I don't have large hands (medium).
The MOE hand guard is a solid choice as well. I personally have an OCD issue with having FF rails, specifically Troy TRX/VTAC Extremes.
A good sling to start with would be a VTAC or Blue Force Gear Vickers sling.
Save up for the optic because as others have already said, you should probably just "buy it once." Otherwise you'll spend $150-200 on a "good enough" optic to find that it isn't and then have to spend $500 on a better one. I would probably purchase the optic before upgrading the stock. A good RDS will improve your ability to run the gun better than a marginally more functional stock.
missed this post the first time around so just wanted to say thank you for the advice again
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.