View Full Version : A brief reflection on running an trijicon RMR on my Glock 19 in MDFI HG1/HG2
willowofwisp
04-18-11, 21:40
This weekend I took MDFI (Michigan Defensive Firearms institute) HG1 and HG2 which was taught by Erik Utrecht of Blue Cell protective services and Tom Fineis of Raven Concealment. I had just picked up the Glock 19 from Doug a local machinist (he does slide/trigger work for Steve Fisher and Chris Costa of Magpul). I promptly zero'd the the RMR and just put a few rounds through the gun before putting it away for the weekend. Over the weekend I ran roughly 700 rounds through the gun. The first advtanges I noticed from the RMR were speed, I could quickly get hits on both steel and targets past 15 yards..much faster than I was with Irons, another advantage is the huge RMR on top of my slide, which allowed for a ledge for either racking the slide or press checking. The only disadvantage I really noticed was shooting close up, anything closer than 5 yards and I was much slower with the dot versus irons, at that point if it wasn't precision shooting and just COM hits I was using the RMR as a huge ghost ring, which worked pretty well.
I think one of the biggest advantages with the RMR came with one handed manipulations..most of my guns have had some type or rear sight wiht a ledge, which helped for one handed racking the slide, but sometimes the ledge would slip off the holster or belt or you could miss the surface entirely, with the RMR it was ridiculous, I could rack the slide off of my knee or really any surface, the huge window of the RMR was a huge help in that category.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5148/5617913018_2f6e562988_z.jpg
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-18-11, 23:07
What dot is that on the RMR?
What do you think about the rear sight placement in relation to the RMR?
decodeddiesel
04-18-11, 23:37
I have a feeling we are seeing the future now with this. Very cool stuff.
I first shot a red-dot pistol close to three years ago, and I'm still spending time with the concept. Most people end up slower at closer distances trying to find the dot. Seeing the iron sights coming into your vision is typically enough 'guidance' for our hand-eye coordination to line them up and press our shots off.
Unlike a rifle, there is no solid cheekweld to force our eye to look through the red dot. I find most people (myself included) end up pointing the pistol higher than it needs to be, and have to move it downward for the dot to become visible. Once you find the dot, it seems fairly easy to make good hits and find the dot again quickly after recoil.
I'm not totally sold on it, but we have had a lot of students that it works well for. Aging eyes especially have benefited from this set up, and guys with very serious eye dominance issues have had good luck as well.
It's a lot of fun clanging steel at 100yds over and over, though. As the distance increases, the dot becomes more and more of a multiplier, IMO.
For my use, I'm fairly certain I will stick with a good set of irons, but this setup can be beneficial given the shooter and situation.
Don Robison
04-19-11, 11:46
I was using the RMR as a huge ghost ring, which worked pretty well.
That is the way we recommend using it in close.
dookie1481
04-19-11, 15:29
I first shot a red-dot pistol close to three years ago, and I'm still spending time with the concept. Most people end up slower at closer distances trying to find the dot. Seeing the iron sights coming into your vision is typically enough 'guidance' for our hand-eye coordination to line them up and press our shots off.
Unlike a rifle, there is no solid cheekweld to force our eye to look through the red dot. I find most people (myself included) end up pointing the pistol higher than it needs to be, and have to move it downward for the dot to become visible. Once you find the dot, it seems fairly easy to make good hits and find the dot again quickly after recoil.
I'm not totally sold on it, but we have had a lot of students that it works well for. Aging eyes especially have benefited from this set up, and guys with very serious eye dominance issues have had good luck as well.
It's a lot of fun clanging steel at 100yds over and over, though. As the distance increases, the dot becomes more and more of a multiplier, IMO.
For my use, I'm fairly certain I will stick with a good set of irons, but this setup can be beneficial given the shooter and situation.
I've never used one of these, so take this for what it's worth, but isn't "chasing the dot" the reason some people object to lasers as well? I've been told RE: lasers that one should use their normal visual reference, but when that is an issue, such as low light, shooting on the move, etc. that the laser is beneficial.
So should one rely on irons at close range, and utilize the dot when it becomes an advantage? Or is the optic obtrusive enough that it would preclude you from doing this?
Or is the optic obtrusive enough that it would preclude you from doing this?
This. If you can see the irons, you can see the dot. And if you have a choice of irons or dot, I would choose the dot. The problem is getting the proper press out and sight picture to consistently find the dot quickly. It's a training issue, but even with a lot of practice on them, I'm still not totally sold (for my uses).
willowofwisp
04-19-11, 17:10
This. If you can see the irons, you can see the dot. And if you have a choice of irons or dot, I would choose the dot. The problem is getting the proper press out and sight picture to consistently find the dot quickly. It's a training issue, but even with a lot of practice on them, I'm still not totally sold (for my uses).
On day one that's what I was going doing and I thought pretty well, but for some reason on day two I was getting lazy with my press outs and started to chase the dot, it definitely showed with my speed being much slower.
memphisjim
04-19-11, 17:27
How is the rmr attached to the glock
Is machining required?
willowofwisp
04-19-11, 17:44
How is the rmr attached to the glock
Is machining required?
Yes, the slide has been machined so the RMR can sit as low as possible.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-29-11, 00:53
I have a feeling we are seeing the future now with this. Very cool stuff.
I know it is my future. My slide should be at OST tomorrow.
I know it is my future. My slide should be at OST tomorrow.
That would appear to be Friday based on the date of your post?
If the package is through receiving and the kit is parts complete then I will likely pick it up this PM and return it on Monday. :cool:
Cesiumsponge
06-26-11, 12:54
I'd like to chime in since I just finished a week-long handgunning course at FAS with my RMR'ed Glock 17. I have both the RMR and cowitnessed irons. If you set yourself up with an iron cowitness, then you can transition to irons if you feel more comfortable doing so because they will be there if the "electronics fail" argument comes to play. With irons on there, it shouldn't be slower than a factory pistol.
It's definitely a system you have to get used to. You have to retrain yourself so when you bring the pistol to bear, it aligns with your eyes naturally...like switching between a Glock or 1911 and having to retrain the natural point of aim due to grip angle differences. If you're forcing yourself to find the dot instead of the dot coming up naturally, retraining is required to find that sweet spot.
I will concur that the frame of the RMR is a perfect ghost ring for point shooting. If you don't have time for acquiring the dot, you really don't have time to find irons either. The ghost ring will give you "good enough" center mass hits up close. You don't necessarily even need irons for close work like that. We practiced drills in daylight and low light by taping up our sights. Your natural point of aim, and being target-focused with consistency in grip and stance works well out to about 5-7 yards. They won't be pretty one-hole groups, but you're still getting a nice miscellany of center mass hits.
The red dot starts to shine when you get out further. A-zone IPSC hits at 50 yards prone were relatively easy and I am a very novice shooter.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5024/5873021355_2a3fbb4b91_z.jpg (http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5024/5873021355_80223926cf_o.jpg)
I have an RMR on a Glock 23 and agree on two points posted already:
1. It takes alot of practice to draw the pistol to a shooting position and acquire the red dot on target. Much more so than with iron sights.
2. This is the future for pistols, just like it seems to be the norm now for most CQB rifle (AR) shooters.
I also have taller suppressor height irons installed and can use them by looking through the RMR.
If you don't like the concept, stick with standard sights. They work too.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/DWood13/DSC_0196.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/DWood13/DSC_0201.jpg
willowofwisp
06-26-11, 18:42
Dwood,
did you remold your raven? I just trimmed my body shield where it overlapped the top of the slide.
I am gonna be taking a Pat Rogers HG2 class this coming weekend..and I plan on running the RMR glock.
Picture
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2246/5801607873_60c50c7163_z.jpg
Cesiumsponge
06-30-11, 19:48
The upcoming custom Blade-Tech WRS holster for Suarez International/One Source Tactical molded for the Glock RMR is also the cat's ass. I've already handled the finished product and TSD is going to sell them mighty quick to folks running the RMR rigs as duty guns. The molded logo also makes it extra sweet. It'll be the solution for folks that don't want to remold or chop up their current holsters. The substantial hood protects the RMR from collecting lint and dust on the front side.
I have a One Source Tactical/Lone Wolf slide for G19 w/RMR. 8MOA dot. Suppressor sights.
Took it to the Vickers Adv Pistol/Carbine a couple weeks ago. Actually took a dremil to my Safariland holster to make room.
My impressions were much slower to acquire dot at close ranges. Should have tried the "ghost ring" technique. Past that it was a tack driver. Took it all the way on the walkback to about 120m on steel...
Definitely a training issue for close-up.
I've never used one of these, so take this for what it's worth, but isn't "chasing the dot" the reason some people object to lasers as well? I've been told RE: lasers that one should use their normal visual reference, but when that is an issue, such as low light, shooting on the move, etc. that the laser is beneficial.
So should one rely on irons at close range, and utilize the dot when it becomes an advantage? Or is the optic obtrusive enough that it would preclude you from doing this?
As stated already, if you look for the dot you tend to aim high. I find that bringing the gun to line of sight while keeping eyes on target, like you would with iron sights, at least puts the dot visible in the glass. Practice will put it right on target.
The tall suppressor iron sights are easily picked up through the glass. You have to train yourself not to look for the for the dot and it does take some time.
It probably is not for everyone.
Dwood,
did you remold your raven? I just trimmed my body shield where it overlapped the top of the slide.
I am gonna be taking a Pat Rogers HG2 class this coming weekend..and I plan on running the RMR glock.
Picture
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2246/5801607873_60c50c7163_z.jpg
Yes, I hit it briefly with a heat gun and just slipped the Glock in until the Kydex cooled. It only needed to remold a small portion near the front, lower left of the RMR.
PS, how did it work for you at the class?
willowofwisp
07-04-11, 10:36
It worked awesome for class, the only issue I had was during the night shoot...our targets had white backgrounds so once I activated the x300 the dot would wash out..I immediately transitioned to iron sights without even really thinking about it and continued getting hits on target. This was the third class that I ran my glock through and really I have no complaints whatsoever, the RMR definetly made making hits at 25 yards pretty easy..I was noticably quicker than the people around me landing 5 good hits on COM.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5066/5897172005_463ebd3bbf_z.jpg
Lucky Strike
07-04-11, 11:03
I've got a Deltapoint on an M&P9.....haven't had the opportunity to run it in a class yet but like others are saying it makes distance shooting easy.
In dryfire practice (at like 7 to 10 yards) I've been really working on focusing on the target and getting my press out consistent and if I do it right the dot obviously appears at what I'm focusing on. Still not consistent enough but that's what practice is for.
Mine rides in an Atomic Dog Holster....I just had to tell Brian the height of the front suppressor sight when I ordered it so he could make sure it'd fit right.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chicano11/MP3.jpg
I had a Glock 24 loooong slide with a J-Point on it years ago. It was fun for showing off hitting bowling pins at 100yds, but I found the up-close stuff much slower. I was constantly trying to find the dot.
With the taller 'suppressor' sights now available, I would like to try a setup where the RDS is melted in and co-witnesses with the irons. I imagine that you could just default back to irons close-up, but I'd have to do some shooting to see for myself.
Still I don't think this has matured enough for me to mount it on a combat handgun. For plinking and hunting, definitely.
willowofwisp
07-04-11, 11:37
I had a Glock 24 loooong slide with a J-Point on it years ago. It was fun for showing off hitting bowling pins at 100yds, but I found the up-close stuff much slower. I was constantly trying to find the dot.
With the taller 'suppressor' sights now available, I would like to try a setup where the RDS is melted in and co-witnesses with the irons. I imagine that you could just default back to irons close-up, but I'd have to do some shooting to see for myself.
Still I don't think this has matured enough for me to mount it on a combat handgun. For plinking and hunting, definitely.
For close up shooting..I just use the RMR window..the screen of death lol, it works well inside of 5 yards
For close up shooting..I just use the RMR window..the screen of death lol, it works well inside of 5 yards
I found that im about equal on times and speeds with irons and rmr
i treat it like anything else i look to the target or threat i drive the gun to my eyes gtg dot is there.....
as for white out i told guys this years ago about it and trijicon that is part of the reason the adjustable rmr was released
Cesiumsponge
07-04-11, 14:23
...the only issue I had was during the night shoot...our targets had white backgrounds so once I activated the x300 the dot would wash out..I immediately transitioned to iron sights without even really thinking about it and continued getting hits on target.
That is interesting. I didn't have that issue when doing dark house shoots but we were doing Harries and FBI techniques with lights and not weapon-mounted, so maybe my dot had more time to adjust to the change in brightness because it took a split second longer for the flashlight to align with point of aim of the gun? I had an X300 but didn't run it on that drill.
One of my instructors shined a light from behind me directly into the window in an attempt to make the dot wash out but it didn't. I'm curious if Trijicon made some revisions to the firmware of the auto brightness adjustment because the dot on mine seemed ideal in all lighting conditions in my particular experience.
willowofwisp
07-04-11, 15:56
That is interesting. I didn't have that issue when doing dark house shoots but we were doing Harries and FBI techniques with lights and not weapon-mounted, so maybe my dot had more time to adjust to the change in brightness because it took a split second longer for the flashlight to align with point of aim of the gun? I had an X300 but didn't run it on that drill.
One of my instructors shined a light from behind me directly into the window in an attempt to make the dot wash out but it didn't. I'm curious if Trijicon made some revisions to the firmware of the auto brightness adjustment because the dot on mine seemed ideal in all lighting conditions in my particular experience.
I have the 8 MOA rm02, its always the same brightness, that may explain it.
At the recent Pat McNamara TAPS course, I had the opportunity to put 800 rounds through an M&P45 w/8 MOA RMR02. The pistol performed very well at both close range high speed targets, as well as precision shooting at ranges out to 50 yards.
We shot the 500 point aggregate 3 times and the M&P45 allowed me to shoot above 450 each time. Likewise, it proved capable at several speed events, including putting 9 shots into the A-zone in 4 sec at 7 yards, starting from the holster. The hardest part of using a slide mounted RDS for me remains consistently rapidly acquiring the red dot during the press out--I am getting better, but feel I can still improve in this area. I think having a bright color front iron sight or dot on the front iron sight may aid this task compared to using just a plain black front sight. I am going to do more experimentation with this and see how things go.
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7573&filename=IMG_0623.jpg
Earlier this year I shot a 2010 gen 3 G19 RTF 2 equipped with a Trijicon 8 MOA RMR02 in a "Shooting on the Move" class with no problems related to the pistol or RDS.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5293/5532996040_1c457fe549_z.jpg
FWIW, I have never had a problem with the red dot washing out in any lighting condition using an RMR02--I have had some issues with this problem when trying the self-illuminating RMR's and Deltapoints.
nobody knows
07-04-11, 22:54
I have been thinking about getting an RMR for my g19. But I do not like the new style, that goofy shape of the top draws my eye to it instead od the window. So my alternative to the RMR is the doctor optic with 4 MOA dot. Does anyone have any experience running one of these on a pistol? Is it as rugged and reliable as an RMR? Another reason I'm considering the doctor optic is because it seems shorter and narrower then the RMR, plus my shop can get them for half the price of the trijicon. So anyone got input on these or opinions?
thanks
Joe
Logicalpath
07-04-11, 23:21
I realize One Source recommends the 8 MOA model and a few of you are utilizing that particular one. However, after reading one of the responses about the RD washing out is there another one that you all would recommend instead?
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-04-11, 23:30
On the press out, I've tried to stop looking for the dot and just work on natural POA and viola the dot seems to appear. If I don't see the dot, I'm trying to stop from fishing for it and just transition to the irons, and as I bring those to bear, the dot will appear. I'm really trying to ingrain the second one for times like where the dot washes out or if it were to fail all together I'm not in a 'Were's Waldo" fruitless search for a dot that won't appear.
With the adjustable LED sights, how does that really work when powder is burning and the clock is ticking??? Are you guys setting a bit higher than you really need and then dialing it back? Can you manipulate it in the holster- with the thought that you are going to need more or less light? I guess we do it all the time with T-1s on carbines, it just seems to me like handguns are usually more of a pressing need, and they are less accesible to fidget with before they are drawn. Just trying to wrap my head around it.
nobody knows--Don Lazzarini and some of the older SWAT officers used the Dr. Optic on their handguns about a decade ago--it is no where near as robust as the RMR and would not be considered a good option for anything but a playgun plinker.
Logicalpath--We have NEVER observed a problem with RD washout using slide mounted RMR02's in a wide variety of lighting conditions for over a year now. As noted above, we have seen washout problems with slide mounted RDS using mRDS optics OTHER than the RMR02.
FromMyColdDeadHand--While I like the adjustable RMR-A for use on long guns, so far I am NOT a fan of the RMR-A for slide mounted RDS use on duty handguns, as previously discussed. With pistols carried in exposed duty holsters, multiple officers complained of discovering no dot or a dim dot after carrying the pistols for several hours. Likewise, tactical team officers running 6004's found dot settings altered during drills on the range and in the shoot house. There were quite a few instances where folks doing malfunction clearances discovered their dot settings had inadvertently changed. Recoil was not the issue, because it happened in pistols that were not shot--just sitting in holsters during the course of the day's duties. I suspect the problem is the side of the sight getting bumped while getting in and out of vehicles multiple times each day, bumping into doorways, and wacking the edge of the holster on various objects. Worn in a holster that covers the RDS, like the superb Fricke Seraphim, I suspect the RMR-A might be protected enough to not suffer from many of these issues.
I think having a bright color front iron sight or dot on the front iron sight may aid this task compared to using just a plain black front sight.
My (limited) experience tells me not to use same colour for front sight as it is for dot. In speed and stress situation it is easy to take front sight as a dot.
I also found out that using closed (tube type) RDS makes it easier to consistently find dot on press out (I used Micro T1 on Glock slide mount), but all seems to be matter of training.
As much as I love the micro Aimpoints, the H1/T1 are a bit too large for daily use on a duty/carry handgun.
As much as I love the micro Aimpoints, the H1/T1 are a bit too large for daily use on a duty/carry handgun.
Yes they are. For carry - sure. For duty? Maybe a bit, maybe OK - depends on personal preference I think. Biggest problem is than Micro mounting makes very hard to do slide "melt in" installation.
Anyway, I was just testing it with competition use in mind and found that I can acquire dot and keep it for follow up much easier with T1 than I did on Fastfire or even "big screen" C-More.
Logicalpath
08-04-11, 21:06
Do any of you run a concealed holster with the rmr on a glock?
willowofwisp
08-04-11, 22:20
Do any of you run a concealed holster with the rmr on a block?
yes raven phantom MD cut and a phantom LC, both using IWB soft loops
Don Robison
08-04-11, 22:23
Do any of you run a concealed holster with the rmr on a block?
Yep, I'm using a Dale Fricke Seraphim and carrying a G17 daily.
Logicalpath
08-05-11, 16:34
Thanks, I'll check all three of those.
Logicalpath
12-03-11, 22:50
I've been MIA from the forums for awhile now but I figured I'd give an AAR on this subject. Several weeks ago I received my slide back from OneSourceTactical(I'll complain about them in a minute) and took my G19 for a whirl. I would say that the RMR has changed my shooting completely. Being left eye dominant and right handed really created some fundamental problems for me early on. However with the RMR those issues are erased and shooting a pistol is actually enjoyable now. As some have expressed, there are some challenges with sight picture alignment but IMO it's something that trigger time and focused training will fix.
Now to my complaints, initially I was telling people that OneSourceTactical was a horrible company to deal with but they did good work. Well that has changed to they're just a horrible company to deal with period. Before paying for the services I called to ask a few questions, the girl I spoke to answered them all adequately and I then asked if I sent the slide overnight how long it would take to return(the site says up to 8 weeks). She said that they could probably have it back to me in two weeks. So I spent about 60.00 having it shipped overnight, when I called the next day to verify I was told that the armorer just left on vacation. He was expected to return in two weeks, I was a bothered but it wasn't "the end of the world". At the four week mark I called back to check in on the status, another girl tells me the following, "well I'm not really supposed to tell you this but the armorer actually quit and we've been trying someone new out. It looks like he's going to be approved this week and then he'll start working on slides." That's when I went ape sh*t on the phone and demanded to speak to a supervisor. They said no one was available and someone would get back to me in a few days. In the end the manager of OneSourceTactical pretty much sh*t on my life and did nothing to remedy the situation. My last transmission(which I waited to send for my slide to arrive back to me) was something to the effect that I could never envision a situation where I would do business with them again.
That said, initially I was bragging about the work they do but their customer service was terrible. After taking the T.A.Ps class a couple of weeks ago I got to see OneSourceTactical craftsmanship under pressure. One of the screws was sitting on top of the RMR rolling around. This was after only 200 or so rounds, I was very disappointed, it really did affect my personal experience during the class(explained in the "failing fast" portion of that course review). So not only do they have what I would characterize as the worst customer service I have experienced to-date, apparently the armorer they found as a replacement SUCKS!
My carry gun, it's my 4th RDS Equipped M&P, and I will never be going back to irons. I ran under a 4.5s FAST drill with a RDS equipped 9Pro. It's all about time on the gun to get used to it.
I carry this in a custom secret city weaponeers holster.
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss192/goteron/aacf1cff.jpg
Logicalpath
12-03-11, 23:07
My carry gun, it's my 4th RDS Equipped M&P, and I will never be going back to irons. I ran under a 4.5s FAST drill with a RDS equipped 9Pro. It's all about time on the gun to get used to it.
I carry this in a custom secret city weaponeers holster.
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss192/goteron/aacf1cff.jpg
Two questions:
1. What company did you use on each weapon? Have you had any issues with any of the work done?
2. In your experience how often do you switch the batter? This is assuming that you switch them before they actually die.
I have three 19's and would like to send off the slide to get this done, I have no experience in this area, looking for help.
What is a reputable company to have the total package done, get the sight and have it milled into the slide?
Also what do you guys recommend for a sight?
Thanks
Steve
willowofwisp
12-04-11, 07:29
Send your slide off to Doug Halloway at
http://www.ateiguns.com/
He did Chris Costa's M&P 9c with RMR not to long ago, both a video and pictures I took are on chris's page. Doug does awesome work and has done quite a few RMR'd guns, including my own.
I use a local gunsmith, he's cheap, quick, and super quality work. Any machine shop can do the work as long as you give them the correct specs.
I switch the battery once a year.
Also, I suggest swapping the RMR screws from the hex head flat to a torx t-10 screw. I do that on all of mine, wouldn't want to strip those tiny hex head screws. I bought 100 screws for $10
Logicalpath
12-04-11, 07:52
I use a local gunsmith, he's cheap, quick, and super quality work. Any machine shop can do the work as long as you give them the correct specs.
I switch the battery once a year.
Also, I suggest swapping the RMR screws from the hex head flat to a torx t-10 screw. I do that on all of mine, wouldn't want to strip those tiny hex head screws. I bought 100 screws for $10
Mine has T8, is that close enough? I threw some blue locktite on it and I'm good to go now.
Mine has T8, is that close enough? I threw some blue locktite on it and I'm good to go now.
The screws should always be secured with Blue Loctite. Perhaps your initial problem was due to that. (email inbound)
Also, the screw over the extractor plunger should be shortened, but just enough to clear the plunger for disassembly (~.410-.415) is the length I use). The screw on the other side should be the full length screw.
When I install an RMR I upgrade the HW to 6-40 to give some additional thread engagement particularly to assist the shortened screw.
"Also, I suggest swapping the RMR screws from the hex head flat to a torx t-10 screw. I do that on all of mine, wouldn't want to strip those tiny hex head screws. I bought 100 screws for $10"
Where did you find your Torx Screws - I am looking for some with a 6-40 thread flat top with the tapered head that will fit the RMR body?
Thanks Chris
Mcmaster Carr, but there are a ton of places that sell them.
Logicalpath
12-04-11, 19:26
I use a local gunsmith, he's cheap, quick, and super quality work. Any machine shop can do the work as long as you give them the correct specs.
I switch the battery once a year.
Also, I suggest swapping the RMR screws from the hex head flat to a torx t-10 screw. I do that on all of mine, wouldn't want to strip those tiny hex head screws. I bought 100 screws for $10
The screws should always be secured with Blue Loctite. Perhaps your initial problem was due to that. (email inbound)
Also, the screw over the extractor plunger should be shortened, but just enough to clear the plunger for disassembly (~.410-.415) is the length I use). The screw on the other side should be the full length screw.
When I install an RMR I upgrade the HW to 6-40 to give some additional thread engagement particularly to assist the shortened screw.
Thanks for the feedback, if I have any other issues I'll definitely contact you.
For kicks I searched my sent box and found the last e-mail I sent to OneSourceTactical. Talk about terrible service!
I must say the lack of customer service on the part of your company is astounding. You would think that my order would have been returned via an expedited method to try and salvage any semblance of service. On the contrary, your company sends out my shipment ground so that I'm left waiting an additional 7 days. There really is no circumstance which I could envision ever doing business with you or your company again and I think I'll be making that known around the shooter communities I participate in.
Its not imperative to use the sights at ranges under 5yrds.
David Bowie at Bowie Tactical Concepts is the place to have this work done.
What is a reputable company to have the total package done, get the sight and have it milled into the slide?
Also what do you guys recommend for a sight?
Thanks
Steve
I can recommend three different places that are highly qualified and experienced at mounting RDS on slides:
-- Noted polymer pistolsmith and LE SWAT officer David Bowie (http://www.bowietacticalconcepts.com/index.html) is a class act and a master of the slide mounted RDS.
-- Mark Housel at L&M Precision Gunworks, LLC in Prescott, AZ (http://www.landmprecisiongunworks.com) has done a good job putting RMR's on my current Glocks and M&P's.
-- Doug Holloway at American Tool & Engraving in MI (www.ateiguns.com (http://www.ateiguns.com)) also does very nice work and is highly recommended.
If you use an untested nearby vendor, you might want your local gunsmith watch this somewhat simplified version of what needs to happen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUlCHn5oX-A.
To date, we have found the RMR-02 to be the best choice for duty/CCW pistol use. Several of our RMR-02's have now been running for 24 months without a battery change.
As noted previously, the early RMR-A's had issues with unexpected, accidental dot intensity adjustment. Now that high quality duty (Safariland 6354) and CCW (Fricke Seraphim) holsters are available that cover and protect the side area of the RMR-A frame where the adjustment buttons are located, we have initiated a new trial using five RMR-07 sights to see if the previous issues of inadvertent dot dimming will be prevented.
Any thought on the dual illumination RMR's for duty use? I am thinking about switching most of my optics to the RMR08 with the 12.5 moa amber triangle.
Voodoo_Man
12-05-11, 09:12
nice setup, thanks for the review.
We did not like the dual-illuminated versions--they wash out in certain lighting conditions and everyone preferred the brighter LED red-dot over the amber.
We did not like the dual-illuminated versions--they wash out in certain lighting conditions and everyone preferred the brighter LED red-dot over the amber.
This!
Stick with the red LED models.
I'm no gunsmith, but I certainly can change parts (PM).
Can I buy a Glock slide or an aftermarket slide, have an RMR installed on it, and drop that slide on my Glock with zero fitting required?
I may try an RMR, but I don't want to trash my current slide in case I don't like the RMR.
Thanks.
willowofwisp
12-05-11, 13:33
I'm no gunsmith, but I certainly can change parts (PM).
Can I buy a Glock slide or an aftermarket slide, have an RMR installed on it, and drop that slide on my Glock with zero fitting required?
I may try an RMR, but I don't want to trash my current slide in case I don't like the RMR.
Thanks.
yes you can.
Logicalpath
03-03-12, 20:53
Annnnnnd the screw came out again, but apparently it came out while I was CCW so I have no idea where the screw went. Any suggestions on what screw I should buy? The screw that is missing is the one on the left side of the RMR/left side of the Glock. Am I going to have to shave a screw down? Or is there a specific size I can purchase that just comes in the length needed?
willowofwisp
03-03-12, 22:21
Annnnnnd the screw came out again, but apparently it came out while I was CCW so I have no idea where the screw went. Any suggestions on what screw I should buy? The screw that is missing is the one on the left side of the RMR/left side of the Glock. Am I going to have to shave a screw down? Or is there a specific size I can purchase that just comes in the length needed?
who did your machining? Doug (ATEi) uses a different threaded screw than the supplied screws from Trijicon and I have had zero issues with them coming loose.
lasvegasone
03-03-12, 23:22
I've read many places about the suggested use of the AmeriGlo supressor sights on the TSD Glock 17 slide, but not found any specific part number, height, width, etc.
Does anyone out there have this info?
I perfer all black front and rear. No dots, no colors.
I've read many places about the suggested use of the AmeriGlo suppressor sights on the TSD Glock 17 slide, but not found any specific part number, height, width, etc.
Does anyone out there have this info?
I prefer all black front and rear. No dots, no colors.
GST-315 in front and GL-404 in back.
who did your machining? Doug (ATEi) uses a different threaded screw than the supplied screws from Trijicon and I have had zero issues with them coming loose.
I suspect that he is using 6-40 screws, same as I do (unless requested otherwise).
They give more threads in the shorter hole over the extractor plunger and do hold better.
I replace all of mine with these:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#socket-head-cap-screws/=gim0sx
They are available in 5-32 or 6-40. I mainly replace because its a TORX drive instead of HEX.
I replace all of mine with these:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#socket-head-cap-screws/=gim0sx
They are available in 5-32 or 6-40. I mainly replace because its a TORX drive instead of HEX.
That's 5-40 & 6-32, no 6-40 in Torx that I could find?
militarymoron
03-04-12, 09:55
i've had one screw come loose on my G17-mounted RMR. i was wondering why the zero had shifted. i had blue loctited it too. anyone use the red vibratite vs. blue loctite in this application?
i've had one screw come loose on my G17-mounted RMR. i was wondering why the zero had shifted. i had blue loctited it too. anyone use the red vibratite vs. blue loctite in this application?
Not sure about 'vibranite'? Red Loctite will generally require heat to get it loose.
Which screw is loosening? What length and thread pitch screws?
Lucky Strike
03-04-12, 10:27
For those wanting additional recommendations on who to have do this type of work I'll give another one for Mark Housel.
He did my M&P/Deltapoint when he was with OneSourceTactical and did a great job. Plus the turnaround time was under two weeks. If anyone were to ask me I'd say that the customer service at OST was excellent between communication, workmanship, and turnaround time. Zero complaints.
However that was early last year so perhaps things have changed after reading the other guy's experience with them after Housel left.
I wanted an RMR on my new PPQ so I sent the slide/RMR to Mark's new shop a couple days ago and will report back when I get it. He said the turnaround would be 7 to 10 days and communication leading up to me sending it off has been superb. Emails always get a same day response. The installation cost is higher then if I were having it put on a Glock/M&P due to the more narrow slide of the PPQ which requires a custom built adapter that Mark is making. But those are the breaks for someone that wants a RDS on a gun with H&K P30 type ergos.
As far as my M&P/Deltapoint go my close up times have gotten faster with increased practice of my press out. Haven't had a chance to take a class with a RDS yet but I'm planning on doing one this summer. I have been using it for IPSC matches though to get practice getting quick hits while under stress. I'm not a very good competition shooter but I'm seeing improvement in my times and confidence in the setup so that's all that matters to me right now.
Mark is ridiculously fast and the best prices around. Not to mention his work is top notch.
I use 6-32s, but I know they make a 6-40 Torx Flathead. McMaster may not have it, but it exists.
Mark is the sole licensee of our new mounting system as well for full disclosure.
militarymoron
03-04-12, 10:50
Not sure about 'vibranite'? Red Loctite will generally require heat to get it loose.
Which screw is loosening? What length and thread pitch screws?
http://www.vibra-tite.com/vc3.html
the left side screw loosened. it was the one supplied by OST who did the work. i used blue loctite when installing the RMR.
lethal dose
03-04-12, 11:06
MM... the green rockset is good stuff. I'm gonna be ordering some soon. If you want, I'll send some your way if you wanna try it.
I had a Leupold Delta point on a G19 done by Bowie. While the work was impeccable. I finally gave up on the system due to just not being able to acquire the triangle with any speed in an up close situation. My theory being when I need that pistol in an emergency I need it in a second.
However my question is this. When I had the work done I went with the BUIS installed in front of the sight. Later on I read where individuals were having some success at speed by having the BUIS mounted, as normal, in it's original dovetail.
Basically what I'm thinking here is that with it behind you track your eye up to the rear sight like you normally would without an RMR/Delta and that drives your eye to the reflex dot to find it much quicker and reliably.
Am I right in this? Seriously debating whether to try this again with an RMR this time and BUIS in normal position.
All of this is with Suppressor mounted height sights.
http://www.vibra-tite.com/vc3.html
the left side screw loosened. it was the one supplied by OST who did the work. i used blue loctite when installing the RMR.
Looks like an interesting product. I may give that a try just to see how it works.
Then you have 6-32 screws. If the left screw in not 1/2 inch then try changing it out and try the Vibra-tite on it.
They should be commonly available at a HW store. Let me know if you can't find them.
I had a Leupold Delta point on a G19 done by Bowie. While the work was impeccable. I finally gave up on the system due to just not being able to acquire the triangle with any speed in an up close situation. My theory being when I need that pistol in an emergency I need it in a second.
However my question is this. When I had the work done I went with the BUIS installed in front of the sight. Later on I read where individuals were having some success at speed by having the BUIS mounted, as normal, in it's original dovetail.
Basically what I'm thinking here is that with it behind you track your eye up to the rear sight like you normally would without an RMR/Delta and that drives your eye to the reflex dot to find it much quicker and reliably.
Am I right in this? Seriously debating whether to try this again with an RMR this time and BUIS in normal position.
All of this is with Suppressor mounted height sights.
This is the theory espoused by the camp that prefers the rear mounted BUIS.
The other camp says it doesn't matter and that having the BUIS up front give an uncluttered window and protects the RMR.
Dwood,
did you remold your raven? I just trimmed my body shield where it overlapped the top of the slide.
I am gonna be taking a Pat Rogers HG2 class this coming weekend..and I plan on running the RMR glock.
Picture
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2246/5801607873_60c50c7163_z.jpg
I cut away a small portion of the sweatshield on my raven holster to accommodate the rmr
militarymoron
03-04-12, 20:43
Looks like an interesting product. I may give that a try just to see how it works.
Then you have 6-32 screws. If the left screw in not 1/2 inch then try changing it out and try the Vibra-tite on it.
the left screw is 1/2". i'm going to try the vibra-tite, as jason from gear sector supplies a small package of it with his mounts, so i have some on hand.
lethal dose - thanks for the kind offer. if the vibra-tite doesn't hold, i'll give you a holler.
lethal dose
03-04-12, 20:49
Ah! I've used vibratite. I forgot that Mr. Trusty supplies that stuff... works good on all the mounts I've bought from him.
Logicalpath
03-04-12, 20:58
http://www.vibra-tite.com/vc3.html
the left side screw loosened. it was the one supplied by OST who did the work. i used blue loctite when installing the RMR.
Interesting, that is the screw I am having issues with and I had the work done with OST as well. The blue loctite doesn't seem to hold either of the screws and I'd be scared to use the red since I would have to switch the battery out every so often.
I have to say I really am disappointed with the work, I thought their customer service was bad but at this point I'd say it was a bad experience all around.
Interesting, that is the screw I am having issues with and I had the work done with OST as well. The blue loctite doesn't seem to hold either of the screws and I'd be scared to use the red since I would have to switch the battery out every so often.
I have to say I really am disappointed with the work, I thought their customer service was bad but at this point I'd say it was a bad experience all around.
One thing that you could try with the Blue Loctite, is to put a small (as in f*int tiny) bit on the underside of the head of the screw. There is much larger surface area there and it might prevent them loosening better.
Also, how tight are you tightening the screws? You can crank them pretty tight. A full length screw and even the extractor side with a maximum length screw (~.410-.415) won't strip the threads . The hex key will start twisting well before.
Logicalpath
03-04-12, 21:17
One thing that you could try with the Blue Loctite, is to put a small (as in f*int tiny) bit on the underside of the head of the screw. There is much larger surface area there and it might prevent them loosening better.
Also, how tight are you tightening the screws? You can crank them pretty tight. A full length screw and even the extractor side with a maximum length screw (~.410-.415) won't strip the threads . The hex key will start twisting well before.
Thank you I will try that, it's a good suggestion.
I'm tightening them as hard as I possibly can...maybe I need to work on my strength LOL.
lasvegasone
03-05-12, 12:27
Now that I know what model sights are optimum for use on the TSD Glock slide,
Rear: AmeriGlo GL-404
Front: AmeriGlo GST-315
Does anyone know where to find them? Out of stock / backordered seems to be everywhere.
jamesavery22
03-05-12, 13:40
Now that I know what model sights are optimum for use on the TSD Glock slide,
Rear: AmeriGlo GL-404
Front: AmeriGlo GST-315
Does anyone know where to find them? Out of stock / backordered seems to be everywhere.
You can order directly from AmeriGlo.
http://www.ameriglo.net/catalog/sights/pistol-sights/glock/black-sights/front-sights
http://www.ameriglo.net/catalog/sights/pistol-sights/glock/black-sights/rear-sights
You sure you want the GST-315? The ones I've seen used and have used before are the GP-112-300.
willowofwisp
03-05-12, 19:20
Try one source tactical, they should have them in stock.
My carry gun, it's my 4th RDS Equipped M&P, and I will never be going back to irons. I ran under a 4.5s FAST drill with a RDS equipped 9Pro. It's all about time on the gun to get used to it.
I carry this in a custom secret city weaponeers holster.
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss192/goteron/aacf1cff.jpg
Are the rear sights still usable with the RMR backed up into it like that?
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