View Full Version : Looks like Apex Tactical is coming to the j-frame
http://www.thetacticalwire.com/story/235611
poirierpro
04-19-11, 08:04
NICE!!!
I will be interested in the reviews once people start using it. A better trigger pull on my j frame would be nice if it's reliable.
Sweet! My J gets the most carry of any of my handguns.
Littlelebowski
04-19-11, 09:06
Apex has been impressing the hell out of me. Keep it up!
SWATcop556
04-19-11, 09:18
For those times when I do carry a J frame this would be a nice addition. Apex is putting out quality gear so I have high hopes for this.
Hi all,
I just wanted to say Scott took the lead on this project and I think the results will speak for themselves.
Before the m&p, Apex was most known for revolver action work. The most difficult part of the work is balancing out the spring forces. Three years ago I re-engineered a Smith 627 to run a 3.5 lb DA for ICORE competition. This June our own Lisa Farrell will be using it to regain her title as the Limited class ladies International Revolver champion for the 8th year. She is also less than one percentage point away from being the first ever female to make master class. I do not know of any other female shooter in any of the action shooting sports to hold the ranking of master in revolver division. Lisa also happens to be the first person you will talk to if you call our shop.
The point of all this is that we pushed the envelope of what people thought was possible in regards to DA revolver work. Scott has spent several months on this project and designed the suite of springs to yield a very linear trigger pull that is consistently smooth and a manageable 9 lbs. Equally important is reliability. Scott factored in about a 20% margin for reliable ignition into the mainspring. The results so far in our test model 340 show over 1000 rounds of Wichester,Federal and CCI ammunition without failure.
-Randy
Will this kit work in all of the (Cheif's Special, Bodyguard, and Centennial) J frame variants?
I'm looking forward to this for sure. I have a j-frame and I had bought parts to do a trigger job but if the Apex unit comes out I'll just install that instead, price dependent of course.
The kit was designed to work with any of the current production centerfire j frames. The rebound slide spring and mainspring will fit the older model guns with the hammer mounted firing pins, however we have not done any reliability studies with the older guns
Excellent, hope to drop one in a SW340PD.
We're going to be giving away one of these kits within the next few days on our Facebook page.
Keep an eye out for it. http://www.facebook.com/apextactical
Looking forward to giving this a try. Any ballpark pricing and availability date?
The kit will be released at the NRA show in Pittsburgh next weekend.
We're not releasing the price yet. That's going to be part of the give away on Facebook.
Scott
will it also address removing the lock?
This kit will not, but that is in the works and will be available shortly.
Scott
Great! So a spring kit & a lock kit will be available? A competent gunsmith would install both? I assume it will work on a 638?
Lucky Strike
04-19-11, 14:40
My 642's been worked over by Teddy Jacobson so it's got a great trigger pull but it's awesome to hear that more options are coming for improving the shootability of these handy guns.
ActiveShooter
04-19-11, 14:56
Very cool!
The DC Kit will include an Apex XP Firing Pin kit and springs. The Lock removal kit will be an available addition to come later on.
willowofwisp
04-19-11, 17:12
This is awesome I am definitely excited, how long after the release date do you think Brownells and midway still start carrying them?
SmokeJumper
04-19-11, 19:27
This looks promising especially the kit for lock removal, can't wait to see the pricing and try a kit out in a J-frame.
I love my j frame but the trigger is quite heavy. She could lose a couple pounds and still be plenty safe.
I'm looking forward to this.
Grim Fandango
04-19-11, 20:25
The kit was designed to work with any of the current production centerfire j frames. The rebound slide spring and mainspring will fit the older model guns with the hammer mounted firing pins, however we have not done any reliability studies with the older guns
Not to belabor the point, but will the kit work with the new(ish) BG38 (the one with the laser)? I'm not very familiar with J frames, but I've read several reports on the forums that the BG38 operates differently from previous J frames, with americanrifleman.org stating that " The BG 38 has no mechanical resemblance to the J-frame revolver, and no parts interchange. On the new gun, the action is completely different." If the apex kit works with the new gun, I'd certainly be interested in one.
vicious_cb
04-19-11, 20:31
I hope it doesnt delay the M&P barrel.:p
Not to belabor the point, but will the kit work with the new(ish) BG38 (the one with the laser)? I'm not very familiar with J frames, but I've read several reports on the forums that the BG38 operates differently from previous J frames, with americanrifleman.org stating that " The BG 38 has no mechanical resemblance to the J-frame revolver, and no parts interchange. On the new gun, the action is completely different." If the apex kit works with the new gun, I'd certainly be interested in one.
Hi,
Unfortunately the Body Guard uses entirely different system of springs, so this kit will not work for them.
We are waiting to see how durable the BGs are before we start designing spring kits for them.
-Randy
Is it possible (or safe) to get a j-frames trigger similar to the DA on a (older) 686?
The j frame has substantially smaller parts than the k,l and n frames. The hammer and triggers don't have the same mechanical leverage that the larger parts have. So typically, j frames require heavier mainspring force to achieve reliable ignition.
-Randy
Who wants a free one? Give away posted
http://www.facebook.com/apextactical
SeriousStudent
04-22-11, 20:30
Scott, have you and Randy settled on a retail price yet?
I would like to buy one. I don't do Facebook, or I would be on that giveaway like a fat girl at a Chinese buffet.
Thanks again for the terrific products. It's great to see real innovation in the marketplace.
Evil Colt 6920
04-22-11, 20:36
I was ready to sell my jframe untill seeing this post... I will stay posted :)
I'm also looking forward to the release of these for my 442.
Scott, have you and Randy settled on a retail price yet?
I would like to buy one. I don't do Facebook, or I would be on that giveaway like a fat girl at a Chinese buffet..
Dude, that was awesome!! Just for that....I may give you the first kit out of the box....:laugh::laugh::laugh:
The retail price is $24.95 and the special show price for those at the NRA show is going to be $20.00 including sales tax in PA.
They'll be on the Apex shopping cart as soon as we get back from PA.
Scott
Dude, that was awesome!! Just for that....I may give you the first kit out of the box....:laugh::laugh::laugh:
The retail price is $24.95 and the special show price for those at the NRA show is going to be $20.00 including sales tax in PA.
They'll be on the Apex shopping cart as soon as we get back from PA.
Scott
Scott,
Throw us a bone here. Can you post a pic of the kit?
My wife may be heading down to the NRA show, I'll have to tell her to pick me up one................. for the j-frame I dont own......... yet :)
SeriousStudent
04-25-11, 18:39
Dude, that was awesome!! Just for that....I may give you the first kit out of the box....:laugh::laugh::laugh:
The retail price is $24.95 and the special show price for those at the NRA show is going to be $20.00 including sales tax in PA.
They'll be on the Apex shopping cart as soon as we get back from PA.
Scott
Thanks very much. I hope you gentlemen book a lot of orders at the show, and have a safe trip home.
How easy will this be to install? I've never even taken off the grips of my j-frame. Will I be able to just drop this kit in without being an armorer?
Scott will be starring on "your j frame and you" coming to a youtube near you...
;)
Installation should not be terribly difficult.
-Randy
Just got back from the NRA show, picked up three kits (2 for me, 1 for my brother) on Friday. Went back to hotel room that night and put one in my 642-1 (brought my tools as I planned on doing this if I got a kit). Was greatly impressed with the difference. Went back Saturday and bought three more kits for friends. This is an awesome kit that gives a very nice trigger pull with strong trigger reset too. Everyone at the booth was very nice and informative. I want to thank all of them for being so helpful, especially with the firing pin as I hadn't done that before. Also thank you for the info on the M&P parts you make as I'm definitely wanting to get one now and deck it out with your parts. Range report to follow, I'm on vacation and will have plenty of time to wring it out.
I'm terribly excited about this kit. I love my 340, but no reason it can't be better. Looking forward to the install video and trying this bad boy out.
PM me if you want one!!!!
http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/CoryCop25/Guns/IMAG0190.jpg
Robb Jensen
05-04-11, 20:36
I installed 2 of the kits some of our guys picked up at the NRA Show from Randy. One was a model 60 and the other a 642. Both we're great. The 60 had had a little home polishing and turned out really nice.
The kits just went live on the Apex Web page.
https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid49.html
Does it come with installation instructions?
SeriousStudent
05-05-11, 19:52
The kits just went live on the Apex Web page.
https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid49.html
Scott, thanks very much! I hope you gentlemen booked a lot of orders at the NRA show.
Order inbound.
SeriousStudent
05-12-11, 00:13
Scott will be starring on "your j frame and you" coming to a youtube near you...
;)
Installation should not be terribly difficult.
-Randy
I am looking forward to his smiling visage. I got my J-frame kit in the mail today. Pretty swift work!
I've pulled one of those obnoxious locks out of my 642. But I am definitely awaiting the youtube clip before I tackle this install.
Thank you again.
I received my Apex J frame kit last night and installed it today on my 642-1! Since I am completely unfamiliar with how the j frame internals work, I went to my local gunsmith and had him supervise me just in case. It was not bad at all. The only mishap I had was when I was taking out the factory Rebound Slide Spring, it went flying and I lost it.
Just make sure you have all the right tools. The 2 most crucial tools, IMO, are having a punch that is the size of the cut out in the rebound slide and having one that is slightly smaller than the cut out, but big enough to push the spring in to install the new one.
The trigger pull now is definitely better than the heavy stock trigger. Can't wait to take it to the range tomorrow and put it through its paces.
Thanks for an awesome kit, Apex!
I installed the kit in my 442 yesterday & tried it out this morning. I only fired 60rds through it (25 WWB & 35 GD 135gr) - no misfires. My trigger gauge only goes to 8lbs. So, all I can say is that it still above 8 lbs, but definitely better than the factory trigger.
My group size decreased greatly. I ran some basic drills (10 yds, 3 IDPA targets, draw & fire 1 rd per target & then draw & fire 2 rds per target). Previously, I had trouble keeping them all in the -0 zone. Today, I had no problem keeping in the -0 zone.
I need to get more rounds down range to verify that it is reliable, but so far, I am happy.
The install videos are up.
Disassembly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIUfmg1JulE
Reassembly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATrz7SSbpAk
Enjoy.
Scott
SeriousStudent
05-13-11, 18:02
Scott, your timing is awesome. I'll put the kit into my 642 this weekend.
Thanks! :D
Back in the 1990's, I worked my way through college as the sole employee in a family owned gun shop. I had access to all of their tools and suck. After some research, i did a really nice action job on my S&W 640. I miss that gun.
ColdDeadHands
05-13-11, 21:59
Any love for L-Frames? :D
Scott,
Any plans for the .22 J frames? I'm really wanting one of the new 43Cs when they become available and would love your kit for it.
Any love for L-Frames? :D
Me too. Also, when will you have a lock removal kit for the J frame?
SeriousStudent
05-22-11, 00:55
I got my J-frame kit about a week ago, but did not have a chance to install it until tonight.
My advice?
Buy it. Buy it now.
Seriously, this was the best thing since Crimson Trace lasergrips on my 642. Scott's video made it very straightforward. I followed his advice regarding smoothing out some of the inner parts. I used a ceramic stone from a Spyderco Sharpmaker for that.
This trigger is really, really nice now. Very smooth rolling double action pull, it reminds me of my old Python. That's a compliment, folks.
It feels like about 7-8 pounds, and has a good feel. No grit, very smooth. Stacks up the pull until it holds, then breaks. I'm going to try and take it to the range next weekend, so I can verify proper hammer strike and ignition.
(I'm not saying there is anything wrong, or it's too light. I'm just a old guy, and got this old by being a cautious bastige.)
Scott, Lisa and Randy, this is really a great product. And what is awesome is that it's only $27.95 delivered to my door. Anybody can afford this kit.
I have carried and shot wheel guns for a long time. I have no idea how many thousands of rounds I've put through S&W revolvers. But this is the best thing I have ever seen for one.
I'm sold on Apex Tactical. I know a fair number of old fossils with J frames, and I'm sending them all to you. Maybe some young fossils, too. :D
Great job, folks!
All I can say is Wow and thank you.
You're too kind to write up the kit like that. I hope you and your friends find the kit to your satisfaction.
We'll be offfering a kit for the older guns with the hammer mounted firing pins within the next couple of weeks.
Thanks.
Scott
I have an older Centennial with a non-removable firing pin. I installed the standard kit, less the firing pin and associated spring. Would the new kit be more appropriate for the style of J frame I have?
ColdDeadHands
05-22-11, 08:56
All I can say is Wow and thank you.
You're too kind to write up the kit like that. I hope you and your friends find the kit to your satisfaction.
We'll be offfering a kit for the older guns with the hammer mounted firing pins within the next couple of weeks.
Thanks.
Scott
Is there a spring kit for L-Frames in the works?
There are kits fir theK,L and N frames in the works.
-Randy
ColdDeadHands
05-22-11, 12:02
Awesome - thanks!:dance3:
Well, I took long enough, but finally made it to the range. Shot 200rds. of mixed brands/styles. 50rds. of Federal 158gr.SWC, 50rds. of Federal Champion 158gr.LRN, 45rds. of Winchester M41 ball 130gr.FMJ, 30rds. of Federal Nyclad 158gr.LRN, 5rds. of Federal Nyclad 125gr.LHP, and the rest were Speer Gold Dot 135gr.JHP. No issues with primer ignition at all and accuracy was improved due to the lighter trigger pull. I'm happy with it so far but will continue to test it with time. I plan on popping the sideplate again to stone some of the contact points to smooth things some more. Color me satisfied! :) Can't wait for the .22LR J frame kit so I can put it in S&W's new 43C if they ever decide to ship the damn things.
I had Robb at Virginia Arms install one of these on my 442. Very impressive, much nicer and crisper than the one that I had done by a local gunsmith. A very smooth trigger.
+1 Robb Jensen
+1 Virginia Arms
+1 Apex Tactical
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-04-11, 19:22
I recently acquired a new 642. It's still in its damn 10 day wait period, but is this something I should buy now or wait til I work out my kinks on the stock trigger?
Exiledviking
09-01-11, 20:49
Wow! I had Scott at Apex install J-frame Duty/Carry kit in my 340SC today and I couldn't be happier. The kit is worth every penny. Thank you, Scott & Randy!!!
I recently acquired a new 642. It's still in its damn 10 day wait period, but is this something I should buy now or wait til I work out my kinks on the stock trigger?
Get it now. Well worth it.
C4
Do most of you own a "pickle fork" (sp?) tool to remove the rebound slide & spring, or have you just used a flat head screwdriver?
It looks like it might be pretty tough to install the new rebound slide & spring using a screwdriver.
If you own one, what do they cost and where's a good place to locate one?
I use a flat head screwdriver. The first one took me 45 minutes. The rest took me 15 minutes tops.
I use a Philips screw driver to replace the rebound spring. I think it is a #2. Just insert the tip of the screw driver into the end of the spring and line up one of the flutes with the end of the pin on the frame. This allows you to compress the spring and lower the end coil far enough for the pin to hold it. Press down on the block as you remove the screw driver and force the rest of the spring behind the pin.
I have the "special tool" but this works better. I have done dozens of spring replacements this way.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=199200
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/199/199200.jpg
Psalms144.1
09-07-11, 10:18
I recently installed one on my new no-lock 642, and the improvement in trigger pull is simply fantastic.
I was able to do the install with nothing more than a small-blade screw driver and a pair of tweezers, though I did loose the sear spring when I was doing the disassembly. Luckily, I had several on hand - I doubt I'll ever find that little booger again!
Regards,
Kevin
MeanStreaker
09-11-11, 17:20
Definitely need to pick this up for my 642!
Installed a kit on my 442 on Tuesday night - it was a breeze. Used a small flat head to remove the rebound spring and a large phillips head (thanks for the tip DBR) to install the new rebound spring. Didn't need a vice for the new mainspring, just pushed in down by hand against the table. The only trouble I had was when I realized that the mainspring strut has different sides. One side is finished/polished and the other side is raw. I didn't notice this when I removed it and wasn't sure which side should be "up" when I reinstalled it. I installed it with the polished side up (facing right side) and it seems to function just fine - please let me know if this is incorrect.
Anyway, the trigger feels much better and I'm more confident in the gun now. The stock 12lb pull makes it too easy to pull shots IMO, especially in a life and death situation. Two weeks ago, I broke down and purchased some CT laser grips for it. Can't wait to get to the range this weekend.
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