View Full Version : Ruger SR556C at 5,000 rounds. A Photo Essay
I've been shooting my SR556C rather regularly in the year or so I've owned it and just reached the 5,000 round mark. Most of this has been on semi- but I have fired several hundred rounds of this on a select fire lower. In all this time, the gun has been accurate and reliable with the only exceptions being some failures to extract with some Silver Bear and WOLF steel cased ammo. I do note that the gun runs properly with Hornady steel cased ammo and WOLF 75gr ammo but doesn't seem to like the lighter WOLF or Silver Bear stuff. The gun runs fine on setting #2 with brass cased ammo.
The gun has been used in a couple of carbine classes and has also been used to shoot jackrabbits and for general plinking and range practice. While I do see some internal wear, I note nothing alarming or unusual and I've not had any broken parts, etc. Some speculated that the Ruger piston was of improper design and would break bolts in the few thousand rounds but mine seems to be going strong.
Next report at 10,000!:)
The carbine in its current form:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010824.jpg
Carbon fouling under the gas block. This is a hard spot to get to for cleaning but I believe Ruger's decision to vent under the gas block is a good one. This keeps the hot gasses away from hands, slings, flashlights, etc.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010826.jpg
No carrier tilt:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010831.jpg
Some slight wear on the face of the buffer:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010838.jpg
An overall shot of the bolt carrier assembly and BCM charging handle:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010840.jpg
Bolt carrier and bolt:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010849.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010847.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010845.jpg
A view of the upper:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010851.jpg
Some wear from cam pin drag. The POF roller cam pin has been in the gun pretty much since it was new:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010852.jpg
Barrel extension:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010853.jpg
Gas piston, regulator and spring. My usual regimen for cleaning is to soak these parts in Bore Tech C4 and wipe with a rag.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010855.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010854.jpg
Inside bottom edge of upper:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010867.jpg
soapboxpreacherman
04-23-11, 12:21
Wear!!!....that looks pretty normal to me!! No carrier tilt!! Do you have the new carrier design on that 556C? That is impressive!!! I think this might settle some of the critics down a little. But I have had issues with Wolf as well. On 3 it will cycle but I have had a few casings stuck. Wolf is just wolf! Pressure seems to be a little different. And the casing expand different because they are steel vs brass.
I see that u said u have a BCM CH. Is that the Gunfighter? If so just curious if u got the small, med, or large?
That leads me to my next question. In the picture of the inside of the upper, I see what looks like a scratch along the top inside surface (the white line). Is that in fact a scratch? And do u know if u got that from your original stock CH or the BCM one?
I ask because I have the same thing on my Colt MT6400C. I just changed from stock CH to BCM Gunfighter CH. I have a similar scratch but I didn't notice if it was there originally or if it was caused by the BCM CH.
I also have a Colt match target hbar. It doesn't have the scratch with the stock handle. I put the BCM CH in there, cycled it a few times, and didn't see a scratch develope.
threefeathers
04-23-11, 14:06
thankyou for your time and effort.
Thanks for the pics and update. The dept. I work for is about to purchase 125 of the same rifle. I'm hoping ours will work as well as yours has. thanks again.
What is that red/brown stuff on the back end of the bolt and the front rail area of the BCG just below the cam pin or roller cam pin in your case?
That bolt looks pretty new for 5,000 rounds through it. I have 5,500 rounds through my chrome bolt in a piston rig, and I'm considering dropping a new bolt and buffer spring in to it.
EzGoingKev
04-23-11, 17:01
Interesting to see the amount of wear in the upper at the cam pin area. It doesn't look any different than my upper with a normal cam pin in it.
I see that u said u have a BCM CH. Is that the Gunfighter? If so just curious if u got the small, med, or large?
That leads me to my next question. In the picture of the inside of the upper, I see what looks like a scratch along the top inside surface (the white line). Is that in fact a scratch? And do u know if u got that from your original stock CH or the BCM one?
I ask because I have the same thing on my Colt MT6400C. I just changed from stock CH to BCM Gunfighter CH. I have a similar scratch but I didn't notice if it was there originally or if it was caused by the BCM CH.
I also have a Colt match target hbar. It doesn't have the scratch with the stock handle. I put the BCM CH in there, cycled it a few times, and didn't see a scratch develope.
I've got the Gunfighter medium latch. The wear comes from racking the action over and over again and will eventually appear in all guns.
Thanks for the pics and update. The dept. I work for is about to purchase 125 of the same rifle. I'm hoping ours will work as well as yours has. thanks again.
Can you share which department you work for? Did you guys do any testing of the Ruger v. other piston guns?
What is that red/brown stuff on the back end of the bolt and the front rail area of the BCG just below the cam pin or roller cam pin in your case?
That's Brian Enos Slide Glide grease.
Interesting to see the amount of wear in the upper at the cam pin area. It doesn't look any different than my upper with a normal cam pin in it.
We can speculate about the amount of wear I'd have if I had left the factory cam pin in but I doubt it would be much different. The POF roller cam pin looks cool but I think that's about all it does.
deadduck357
04-25-11, 23:04
Your many more rounds ahead of me, great to hear.
Dirtyboy333
04-25-11, 23:26
I second that bolt. That thing looks really nice for 5k. I know it's chrome and it would be harder to see wear but all the corners seem sharp and new.
Nice report, it's good to see the ruger running strong.
Good to see she's doing the job in a propper way. Thanks for the update and pics!
No carrier tilt!!
Just because you don't see wear in the buffer tube does not mean that there is not off axis force on the carrier. It's just going somewhere else, likely a tighter fit between the upper bore and the carrier is why some see it in the buffer tube and some do not.
Just because you don't see wear in the buffer tube does not mean that there is not off axis force on the carrier. It's just going somewhere else, likely a tighter fit between the upper bore and the carrier is why some see it in the buffer tube and some do not.
If Ruger has found a way to successfully deal with the off-axis force, what's the problem? Just curious, not being critical.
I didn't say it was a problem, just that it doesn't go away. Does a smooth raised pad on the back of the carrier reduce the off axis force or just make it not as apparent?
The force has to go somewhere, if it's going into the upper was the upper designed for it?
deadduck357
04-26-11, 19:33
You may have already answered, but is that the original buffer or an other ?
DeltaSierra
04-26-11, 23:08
I'd be interested to know when your SR-556 was manufactured, as I had an early production SR-556, and after only 500 rounds, the carrier tilt was becoming a real problem.
I wish now that I had taken pictures of the upper receiver where the carrier had worn an oval shaped groove out of the receiver, but I sold the rifle this past year...
Suwannee Tim
04-27-11, 15:52
Just because you don't see wear in the buffer tube does not mean that there is not off axis force on the carrier. It's just going somewhere else, likely a tighter fit between the upper bore and the carrier is why some see it in the buffer tube and some do not.
The only gas operated design ever that does not have off axis force is the AR. The engine in your car takes you down the road with "off axis force". Doesn't seem to be too big of a problem, either with the Ruger or your car. Off axis force is a red herring. Another red herring is that a rifle must be purpose built for a piston, not adapted. Adaptation is the most important source of progress. Without adaptation we would still be in the bronze age.
I never claimed any problem with where the force is going. I said that no marks on the buffer tube does not mean there is no off axis force.
It goes somewhere so asking if that was part of the design is a fair question. It seems you missed the main point I was making. The tolerances between the upper bore and carrier are probably the main reason some people see wear on the buffer tube and some don't.
An internal combustion engine is designed by engineers for the forces it is subjected to, that is a ridiculous comparison.
Suwannee Tim
04-27-11, 17:19
I thought it was a pretty good comparison. Almost every useful force includes some "off axis" component. It is rare you have a force that does exactly what you want and only what you want. If that component is properly absorbed it causes no problems. Such is the case for the Ruger or your car unless it is a GM (http://www.pistonslap.com/).
I thought it was a pretty good comparison. Almost every useful force includes some "off axis" component. It is rare you have a force that does exactly what you want and only what you want. If that component is properly absorbed it causes no problems. Such is the case for the Ruger or your car unless it is a GM (http://www.pistonslap.com/).
The standard AR platform is not designed for off-axis force of the BCG. He's asking if the SR556 has been engineered to handle the off-axis force.
Outlander Systems
04-27-11, 17:54
If the force that ISN'T being distributed to the receiver extension, it's going somewhere, the question Todd's raising is whether that "somewhere" is capable of sustaining repeated pressure from the bolt carrier assembly jackhammering it.
In a nutshell, the design wasn't intended to include the BCG pivoting during operation.
I thought it was a pretty good comparison.
It really wasn't. Car engines (and frames) are designed with the knowledge beforehand of what stresses they will be subjected to. The AR was designed around DI, where there is no carrier tilt. Unless Ruger redesigned their upper receivers (and potentially other components), then forces are being introduced into the AR system that it was not designed for and they could have catastrophic results (albeit unlikely). If the stress isn't going into the receiver extension where most carrier tilt force is directed in other pistol ARs, then it becomes a potentially huge issue and begs the question: just where are those forces going?
Suwannee Tim
04-28-11, 05:20
It really wasn't. Car engines (and frames) are designed with the knowledge beforehand of what stresses they will be subjected to.
You would be surprised to know how little machine designers know about the actual stresses imparted to machine elements. Calculating or measuring these stresses is very time consuming and expensive and is only done for special requirements. I have designed, built and commissioned many machines in my career and have rarely known the stresses involved. Most design is based on prior work and experience that is to say, Scientific Wild Ass Guesses. The AR bolt and bolt carrier is different it that the kinematics and dynamics are very, very simple and repeatable. The impulse delivered to the bolt carrier by the operating rod can be easily determined by high speed photography then calculating the speed of the carrier then the impulse. From the linear impulse the angular momentum delivered to the carrier can be easily calculated. The actual stresses imparted are more difficult to calculate as the problem is not statically determinate but they can be estimated. This is all pretty academic anyway, I doubt a designer would go to this trouble, he more likely would just install a contact surface as large as would fit to minimize contact stress. That surface is the band on the back of the bolt. We don't have a photo here of the mating surface the band touches.
We don't have a photo here of the mating surface the band touches.
Is there anything specific you'd like me to photograph?
You would be surprised to know how little machine designers know about the actual stresses imparted to machine elements. Calculating or measuring these stresses is very time consuming and expensive and is only done for special requirements.
Sure, maybe a Kia doesn't calculate many aspects, but I guarantee you that higher-end manufacturers do (like Mercedes or BMW), and that Eugene Stoner did when he first built the AR.
We can speculate all day long with technobabble, but the truth is that, like cars, the DI AR has been around long enough for manufacturers to know of the major caveats of its design. Quality manufacturers will either do their own research or borrow from those that did (we have the TDP), as we have over 100 years of automotive technology and 50 years of AR technology.
The piston AR has not been tested extensively because it's not old enough to have been, especially when you consider they're all proprietary at the moment. If one make of piston AR demonstrates carrier tilt and another doesn't, you can't chalk it up to "I guess it's a better design." Likewise, you can't rely on a flawed analogy like "it happens with cars too." It's irresponsible in terms of reliability and engineering.
If it isn't displaying carrier tilt, the force is going somewhere else. Maybe it's into the BCG itself, maybe it's in the upper receiver, who knows? Until we do know, however, that is the point.
Suwannee Tim
04-28-11, 11:57
When Stoner designed the AR computers were crude and very expensive and FEA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_element_method) was in it's infancy. To calculate statically indeterminate forces and resulting stresses and strains on complex shapes without fast computers is all but impossible. Designers do not calculate quantities they do not need to know. I have designed a good many machine elements. Design is as much an art as a science, it is not as numerical or determinate as you may think. The angular momentum imparted to the bolt carrier is absorbed by the upper and transferred through the top front and bottom rear of the bolt carrier.
When Stoner designed the AR computers were crude and very expensive and FEA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_element_method) was in it's infancy. To calculate statically indeterminate forces and resulting stresses and strains on complex shapes without fast computers is all but impossible. Designers do not calculate quantities they do not need to know. I have designed a good many machine elements. Design is as much an art as a science, it is not as numerical or determinate as you may think. The angular momentum imparted to the bolt carrier is absorbed by the upper and transferred through the top front and bottom rear of the bolt carrier.
You're using another flawed example. Whether or not computers were crude has no bearing on the finite calculations required for the Stoner AR design. Firearms were well-developed enough during Eugene Stoner's time that there were few unknowns about them. Further, the direct impingement design made it so that there was little complexity. Just because computers were "crude" (which is truly irrelevant) does not mean that they were even needed in the first place or that they limited the AR design.
According to your argument, landing on the moon should have been equally impossible, as both the AR and the moon landing came from the same era.
Lest you forget, the atomic bomb came about less than 10 years after the first digital computers (and the design and research for atomic bombs existed well before digital computers were conceived). You can't really get more crude than that. The computer "memory" of the time consisted of an 8 foot tube of liquid mercury connected to a speaker and a microphone that looped sound waves that served as "bits." Crude? Maybe, but more than efficient enough to do the job. Building an AR is a cakewalk by comparison.
This is entirely different than sticking a piston on an AR and then calling it "good." It's sloppy and it's bad design.
I heard the JMB's computer was VERY slow...:)
Suwannee Tim
04-28-11, 17:22
....According to your argument, landing on the moon should have been equally impossible......
You got me there buddy. I give up. Uncle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Say_Uncle).
I heard the JMB's computer was VERY slow...:)
Either a slipstick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slipstick) or more likely paper and pencil. Ole John was much more of a craftsman and artisan than an engineer. There is no better example of my assertion that machine design is as much an art as a science. John Garand is another example. He took a turn bolt rifle and stuck a gas piston on it, grafted on an automatic pistol hammer and trigger and viola! The Greatest Battle Implement Ever Devised.
Is there anything specific you'd like me to photograph?
Yeah, if you can get it. Notice the land on the back of the bolt carrier. I'm interested in the area where the bottom half or third of this land contacts the upper when the bolt is closed. This is where any damage from the eccentric force of the piston will appear. If you can't get a photo, inspect it for damage.
Inside bottom edge of the upper.
This was actually something I had initially photographed but they were so blurry I didn't post them. I had better results with the lighting this evening.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010867.jpg
Suwannee Tim
04-28-11, 19:56
That's the area I was referring to. Part of the moment of the carrier rotation gets absorbed there, the rest in the top front by the piston pushrod. No sign of damage. Same with my LMT. I'm no fan of Ruger, I have a the reasons in my safe but I'm quick to forgive and glad to see they got this one right. Thanks for your efforts.
You may have already answered, but is that the original buffer or an other ?
Standard Ruger buffer.
Suwannee Tim
04-30-11, 04:41
Error.
I'd be interested to know when your SR-556 was manufactured, as I had an early production SR-556, and after only 500 rounds, the carrier tilt was becoming a real problem.
I wish now that I had taken pictures of the upper receiver where the carrier had worn an oval shaped groove out of the receiver, but I sold the rifle this past year...
I don't know when it was made but it was one of the first "C" variants to leave the factory.
This gun's got a factory Ruger full-auto bolt carrier in it. This carrier's got a pretty nice radius on the tail end of the bolt. I believe this radius has gone a long way in reducing or eliminating wear and tear inside the buffer tube. Ruger says they've also gone from three or four subcontractors to just two (IIRC) and they've been able to tighten up quality control as a result. This has also helped them identify tolerance stack between uppers and lowers and achieve a better fit between these two parts.
Here's the bottom edge of the bolt carrier. This radius should be present on all carriers currently leaving the factory:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010860.jpg
Thanks for the pics and update. The dept. I work for is about to purchase 125 of the same rifle. I'm hoping ours will work as well as yours has. thanks again.
Hey, BIGUGLY!
Did your department receive any of the rifles yet? Any updates you can give?
Cagemonkey
06-04-11, 10:22
Inside bottom edge of the upper.
This was actually something I had initially photographed but they were so blurry I didn't post them. I had better results with the lighting this evening.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010867.jpgInteresting that the carrier tilt is visible in the upper and not the lower receiver extension. Would you consider an anti tilt buffer? Maybe a hardened steel insert in the contact area of the upper would be a good factory modification? Overall pretty impressive given its a Ruger and not the uber expensive HK MR556.
Would you consider an anti tilt buffer? Maybe a hardened steel insert in the contact area of the upper would be a good factory modification?
The steel insert might be a helpful mod but it would probably add significantly to the production costs.
Really, I don't see anything worrisome here at all. Still, I'll keep an eye on things and post an update when I've got one.
Cagemonkey
06-11-11, 20:15
The steel insert might be a helpful mod but it would probably add significantly to the production costs.
Really, I don't see anything worrisome here at all. Still, I'll keep an eye on things and post an update when I've got one.Thanks. Looking forward to further updates.
Actually I'm not sure now if there will be any updates. I recently saw this on Ruger's website and just might have to replace my 556C with the new CLA.
http://www.ruger.com/products/sr556Standard/specSheets/5913.html
http://www.ruger.com/products/sr556Standard/images/5913.jpg
Littlelebowski
06-11-11, 20:23
1/9 twist?
1/9 twist?
Unfortunately.
My "C" seems to handle 75gr ammo without issues but I'd still like to see Ruger change to a 1x8 or 1x7 twist.
1/9 twist?
And MSRP of $1995?!?
And MSRP of $1995?!?
They have that same retail price listed for everything but the new SR556E.
Street price should be around $1,400.
They have that same retail price listed for everything but the new SR556E.
Street price should be around $1,400.
Very close price. I've been shopping around for a few weeks now and for a NIB standard, I've seen varying prices from 1300 to 1600. The "new" E (for Essential) model is under 1000 but has no iron sights, no chromed bcg or barrel and some other mods to drop the price under 1K. It's kind of Ruger's version of the SWMP15OR.
Thanks,
BD
Very close price. I've been shopping around for a few weeks now and for a NIB standard, I've seen varying prices from 1300 to 1600. The "new" E (for Essential) model is under 1000 but has no iron sights, no chromed bcg or barrel and some other mods to drop the price under 1K. It's kind of Ruger's version of the SWMP15OR.
Thanks,
BD
Bud's guns has a good price on the "E" model.
Tokarev,
At the beginning of this thread, you mentioned that some people thought that the Ruger piston design was improper and would result in broken bolts. Can you give any details? Thanks!
Tokarev,
At the beginning of this thread, you mentioned that some people thought that the Ruger piston design was improper and would result in broken bolts. Can you give any details? Thanks!
There were a couple of threads here regarding the Ruger when it first hit the market.
This one's probably the longest. Some decent info contained within:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=31110&highlight=Ruger
I had the Ruger out today and did a little work off the bench to test accuracy. The gun's still shooting well. I'm at 5,500 rounds fired now.
All groups were fired using the Leupold CQ/T with BAD (big ass dot) reticle. The dot's not the best for bench work but I like it for most other uses.
Ten rounds of Hornady's new 55gr "Steel Match." This ammo gave me one failure to extract that required a cleaning rod to clear.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020540.jpg
Ten rounds of Hornady's 55gr steel cased training ammo.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020547.jpg
Ten rounds of Hornady's 75gr steel cased training ammo.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020556.jpg
Five rounds of the Hornady 75gr at 200 yards.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020559.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020560.jpg
I would love to see a picture of your barrel extension and feed ramps.
I would love to see a picture of your barrel extension and feed ramps.
Did you look at the first page of the thread?
I could likely get a decent deal on one of these, but...
1. I'm still not very sure of the whole piston issue, and from what I've read here, it is just not proven.
2. The 1:9 thing is not a show stopper, but would not want to lay out big bucks for it.
3. Commonality is good.
They ARE CHF barrels though and Ruger supplies some pretty high end folks with barrels. That is a plus.
BTW - they do sell uppers - so... I suppose that these are OK running with your own lower?
I could likely get a decent deal on one of these, but...
1. I'm still not very sure of the whole piston issue, and from what I've read here, it is just not proven.
The Ruger piston system is, for the most part, unproven. That doesn't make it bad. It just makes it unproven. I've done my best to be as open and honest in my assessment as I can be and if something breaks, etc. I will post about it. Many people here aren't in a big hurry to embrace untested designs and I can't says I blame 'em. Still, it's sometimes fun to play with new stuff.
2. The 1:9 thing is not a show stopper, but would not want to lay out big bucks for it.
I tend to agree and would like to see Ruger switch to at least a 1x8 twist to make the rifle more versatile. On the other side of that is the fact that the gun might not shoot too well with some varmint bullets with ultra-thin jackets. But when's the last time your local gunshop had anything on the shelf lighter than 50gr? The trend is to heavier bullets. Many in the "tactical community" won't take Ruger seriously until the twist is changed. At least they chromed the bores...
3. Commonality is good.
We'll probably never see any commonality among the various manufacturers unless HK and Colt get some kind of enormous contract to make piston guns. Still, Ruger's an established company and is likely to be making spare parts for the SR-556 for the foreseeable future. And not all parts are unique. Firing pin, extractor, bolt, etc are all standard AR15 parts.
They ARE CHF barrels though and Ruger supplies some pretty high end folks with barrels. That is a plus.
Yep. Good stuff. From what I understand, there are only four sources for CHF barrels in the US. That's Remington, Ruger, FN, and Daniel Defense. If you've got a rifle from another maker with a CHF barrel, chances are it came from Ruger. They sell a bunch of barrels to a bunch of companies.
BTW - they do sell uppers - so... I suppose that these are OK running with your own lower?
Ruger does sell a complete upper in 5.56 and 6.8. These will fit onto any standard AR lower. Or should fit, anyway...
Hmmm...the CLA model does look interesting and I can forgive the 1x9 twist rate:)
bigrobbierob
09-26-11, 13:12
Tokarev,
If you were to pull off the flash hider on the Ruger to replace it with something else, would that bring its OAL under 16"?
The flash hider on the 556C and 556CLA is integral with the barrel. The barrel is just over 16" long with the machined flash hider in place.
Replacing the flash hider would involve actually cutting and threading the barrel since the hider and barrel are machined from one piece.
So this setup is LIKE a 14.5" non-NFA?
So this setup is LIKE a 14.5" non-NFA?
no. the flash hider and bbl aren't dilled/pinned together on some models of the ruger. they are actually machined together from the same piece of stock.
Great report, and good feedback. One can only hope any of our guns go 5.5 K rounds with -zero- issues.
Thanks for the pics and update. The dept. I work for is about to purchase 125 of the same rifle. I'm hoping ours will work as well as yours has. thanks again.
Is there a chance you can give us an update? has your department fielded the carbines yet? Any feedback from the users?
TIA!
Here's the rifle in its current format. I used this in a 2day CQB class out in Phoenix last weekend. The gun continues to run fine and hasn't been cleaned in 1,500 rounds, give or take a couple hundred.
I'm sitting at 6,500 rounds fired.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1000899.jpg
http://www.ruger.com/resources/videos.html?vid=FAQ-SR556-3
...............................
AZSUNDEVIL
08-08-12, 21:45
Is that the Leupold Prismatic sight? How do you like it?
justin_247
08-08-12, 23:26
Here's the rifle in its current format. I used this in a 2day CQB class out in Phoenix last weekend. The gun continues to run fine and hasn't been cleaned in 1,500 rounds, give or take a couple hundred.
I'm sitting at 6,500 rounds fired.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1000899.jpg
Can you post pictures of the inside of the receiver extension? Ruger has an interesting video that shows some wear on the extension, but states that it should never progress beyond diminishing the finish. I'm curious how this pans out...
At 6000 rounds - lower wear looks like?
Also - because it hasn't been cleaned, how does it look compared to a DI?
I still wonder - if the OVERALL barrel length is 16" WITH flashhider, is this like getting a PINNED 14.5 in overall length? (So it is shorter than a 'normal' 16" gun).
I was very interested in the Ruger, but ended up going the 6920 route.
Where do you buy replacement parts? I am guessing that you have probably purchased some already, reaching the 6-7 k mark.
What parts would you recommend? guessing BCG, and piston parts? Not sure what you would replace with the GPU.
PA PATRIOT
08-09-12, 10:20
The OP posted he was having issues with extraction using steel cased ammunition which I also had with my Adams Arms mid-length piston upper. Also two of my shooting friends have extraction issues with piston guns and steel cases so I called Adams Arms and was told that the unlock speed of the bolt is just a hair faster then a DI gun and the steel cases most likely didn't have the time to contract fully after firing causing harder extraction.
I polished the chamber and installed a Wolff Extra Power extraction Spring and the issue disappeared. 1800rds later she is still go to go with any steel cased ammo.
I don't know if what Adams Arms said is true but maybe someone here has some input.
The OP posted he was having issues with extraction using steel cased ammunition which I also had with my Adams Arms mid-length piston upper. Also two of my shooting friends have extraction issues with piston guns and steel cases so I called Adams Arms and was told that the unlock speed of the bolt is just a hair faster then a DI gun and the steel cases most likely didn't have the time to contract fully after firing causing harder extraction.
I polished the chamber and installed a Wolff Extra Power extraction Spring and the issue disappeared. 1800rds later she is still go to go with any steel cased ammo.
I don't know if what Adams Arms said is true but maybe someone here has some input.
I think both the bolt unlock speed and the chamber polish issue go hand in hand. Faster unlocking coupled with a slightly rough chamber are no doubt the cause of some of the failures to extract. With that being said I think some of the issues are also the result of whatever powder the Ruskies are using. I've used the SR-556C with Golden Tiger 56gr steel and Hornady 55gr steel cased training ammo and never had a failure. With the Silver Bear I get stuck cases almost constantly.
I also wonder how chrome lining effects extraction force since I've got an SR-556E with an unlined unplated stainless barrel that shoot Tula, WOLF, etc without issues. Could the chrome plated chamber create more friction during extraction? Maybe some treatment like nitriding would be a better option maybe?
Where do you buy replacement parts? I am guessing that you have probably purchased some already, reaching the 6-7 k mark.
What parts would you recommend? guessing BCG, and piston parts? Not sure what you would replace with the GPU.
I'm at 7,000 rounds now and haven't cleaned the rifle in 2,000.
I don't have any specific spares for this rifle. The bolt, firing pin, extractor, etc are standard AR so there should be no problem if anything there happens to break. I don't think another bolt carrier would be required since the standard Ruger carrier is machined from one piece of steel.
Ruger was at one time talking about selling a "field maintenance kit" that would contain a firing pin, firing pin retainer and the gas regulator and retainer spring. I haven't looked on the website lately and don't know if they are selling this kit yet or not. Anyway, I think it would be a good idea to maybe have extra piston parts on hand just case of loss, etc.
Can you post pictures of the inside of the receiver extension? Ruger has an interesting video that shows some wear on the extension, but states that it should never progress beyond diminishing the finish. I'm curious how this pans out...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010831.jpg
The buffer tube doesn't really look any different than it did here at 5,000 rounds.
My plan is (was, maybe) to get another 5,000 fired and post pics of all the same areas at 10,000 rounds. I'm still 3,000 rounds away from that goal. Other rifles have taken up my time and ammo. I still plan on updating things at the 10k mark but it'll probably be awhile...
........................................
Having pretty much zero working knowledge of the AR platform, it seems to me that Ruger got this one right. Im just curios if the wear seen with the Ruger is better than the wear seen at the same round count with a non-piston AR?
I don't really see any wear in this rifle that wouldn't be present in a DI gun at about the same round count. Some guns do show more wear than this rifle. I have another Ruger in 6.8SPC that does have some wear at the bottom edge of the buffer tube.
I agree with you that Ruger seems to have gotten this one right. But there are a couple things I'd like to see Ruger change. I think we need a different barrel twist. 1x7 would be best but 1x8 would probably be fine too. While I normally shoot 55gr FMJ ammo and nothing else, it would be nice to know I can shoot 77gr without any worries if I choose to or had to for some reason.
Related to the barrel, I would like to see something with a reduced weight. The fluting on the SR-556C does shave some weight off but I don't like the integral flash hider. It actually seems to work OK for flash but there's no way to change the hider to something else without gunsmithing. I would rather have a 16" fluted or reduced profile barrel with 1/2-28 threads so I could put on an AAC brake or whatever.
I used to think that the piston rod needs to be removable but I am not as worried about that as I used to be. All things being equal, it would be nice to be able to take the piston rod out for inspection but it probably isn't something that needs to be pulled out every time the rifle is re-oiled or whatever. With that said, I would like to see the rod being accessible with at least some basic hand tools or something so it could be removed and inspected every couple thousand rounds.
midSCarolina
08-11-12, 18:36
Appreciate the info... I came very close to buying one of these Rugers but was worried about carrier tilt. I am currently in the process of building an SBR and after that I might give a piston AR a try. I have narrowed my piston choices down to the LWRC and the Ruger so definitely keep us updated.
Appreciate the info... I came very close to buying one of these Rugers but was worried about carrier tilt. I am currently in the process of building an SBR and after that I might give a piston AR a try. I have narrowed my piston choices down to the LWRC and the Ruger so definitely keep us updated.
I've also got a Ruger SR-556E (their economy piston gun) that's got 2,000+ rounds through it. No signs of damage to the buffer tube on that rifle either.
Anything specific about Ruger's piston I can answer for you?
midSCarolina
08-16-12, 09:22
I've also got a Ruger SR-556E (their economy piston gun) that's got 2,000+ rounds through it. No signs of damage to the buffer tube on that rifle either.
Anything specific about Ruger's piston I can answer for you?
Not at this time... I am pretty comfortable with their quality and their price. LWRC is just so damn expensive that I don't feel like I should spend that much money on another AR considering I built my 14.5" LMT just about 3 weeks ago and I am in the middle of building a KAC SBR. I just graduated from college this past spring so building $15000 worth of AR in less than 3 months just isn't something I think I should do esp since I am kinda banking on doing the military right now and if that doesn't go through I don't have any idea what I would want to do bc w/ my biology degree I would need to get my masters/ MD/ Ph.D to really be successful in the field.
Actually, what type of accuracy are you getting out of your SR556 with different ammunition. I heard they are basically 3moa rifles (I don't mind that in an AR) esp since I have my LMT which is shooting 1moa.
Not at this time... I am pretty comfortable with their quality and their price. LWRC is just so damn expensive that I don't feel like I should spend that much money on another AR
LWRCi is garbage marketed as premium quality. Shit! I'd take a ruger any day over anything LWRCi makes.
You're saving money and getting a better gun. The only downside to the Ruger I shot was the trigger was really heavy.
midSCarolina
08-16-12, 09:49
LWRCi is garbage marketed as premium quality. Shit! I'd take a ruger any day over anything LWRCi makes.
You're saving money and getting a better gun. The only downside to the Ruger I shot was the trigger was really heavy.
Just curious... what makes LWRC garbage?
Actually, what type of accuracy are you getting out of your SR556 with different ammunition. I heard they are basically 3moa rifles (I don't mind that in an AR) esp since I have my LMT which is shooting 1moa.
With good ammo and a scope I've been able to shoot 10 rounds into about an inch off the bench at 100 yards with a stock Ruger SR-556. With most ball ammo or whatever the rifle discussed here gun shoots about 2".
The tiered or fully supported barrel or whatever might actually help with accuracy to some extent, which is contrary to common wisdom with a traditional AR that says you've got to have a floated barrel for accuracy. At any rate, I haven't seen the Ruger shift POA/POI when hot like I have seen on some other rifles. Also, I think the supported barrel with have less POI shift when running a suppressor but I'll have to play with that more to say for certain.
Just curious... what makes LWRC garbage?
nothing. He's just biased and shit talks lwrc because he wants to deter people from buying their rifles.
If you were to ask about their company policies and customer service though, i'll be the first one to tell you that they suck.
This target was fired off the bench from 100 yards using a Burris XTR14 scope. The rifle used was the original Ruger SR-556 with the heavy profile barrel and threaded muzzle. I actually sold this rifle to buy the SR-556C, which is the rifle shown in the first few pages of this thread.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR%20556/DSCN0719.jpg
justin_247
09-02-12, 13:59
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1010831.jpg
The buffer tube doesn't really look any different than it did here at 5,000 rounds.
My plan is (was, maybe) to get another 5,000 fired and post pics of all the same areas at 10,000 rounds. I'm still 3,000 rounds away from that goal. Other rifles have taken up my time and ammo. I still plan on updating things at the 10k mark but it'll probably be awhile...
Wow, so they really did solve the carrier tilt problem. Awesome!
Thanks for the pics and update. The dept. I work for is about to purchase 125 of the same rifle. I'm hoping ours will work as well as yours has. thanks again.
Any chance you can post something about your department's experiences?
TIA!
Thanks for this long-term test. Always nice to see positive results, too.
I have been extremely pleased with the Ruger purchases I have made over the years. I am waiting for the next report!!!
I am waiting for the next report!!!
LOL! You and me both!
I've been messing with a few other rifles these last few months and the 556C has kind of been set aside and forgotten about. I am hopefully going to attend an instructor development course next month and plan on using the Ruger during the carbine portion. It probably won't be more than a few hundred rounds but it will at least get the gun out of moth balls.
PHATSPEED7X
11-15-12, 20:29
Thank you for such a good report on the SR556. I ordered one this week, and I should see it tomorrow!
Chunky Monkey
02-14-13, 22:31
Just picked one up today and I am anxious to run some different ammo thru it to see how it runs. My son has already claimed my franken AR!
I'm still stuck at about 7,200 rounds fired but my instructor development class that was cancelled in December is now scheduled for next month. I'm hoping the class will get me close to 8,000 rounds.
Chunky Monkey
02-18-13, 18:34
I'm still stuck at about 7,200 rounds fired but my instructor development class that was cancelled in December is now scheduled for next month. I'm hoping the class will get me close to 8,000 rounds.
Good to hear ~ ran about 50 thru mine this past weekend just check it out. I like it but I'm gonna have to do something with the trigger. Have Geissele trigger in my franken rcarbine!
Not trying to hijack, this seems relevant:
I read somewhere that the 556 series goes through at least partial HP/MPI testing similar to other manufacturers. Can anyone confirm or deny?
Not trying to hijack, this seems relevant:
I read somewhere that the 556 series goes through at least partial HP/MPI testing similar to other manufacturers. Can anyone confirm or deny?
I believe each rifle is fired with a high pressure test round at the factory. Ruger does do MPI testing on their bolts but I don't know if that's each individual bolt or batch testing.
Not a confirm or deny but it's more than an outright NO.
leeradio13
02-18-13, 22:26
cool, do you just keep the ammo boxes for track record? i know someone who just got this rifle for his wife, i'll share this with them. thanks.
cool, do you just keep the ammo boxes for track record? i know someone who just got this rifle for his wife, i'll share this with them. thanks.
Yeah, pretty much. I have been generally keeping tracking of how many mags I take to the range full and how many come back home empty.
Ruger has made some small changes to their design--or more correctly the parts used--in recent times. Guns currently shipping will probably have Samson BUIS rather than the Troy brand. Also the rail system used now has two Allen screws that clamp around the barrel nut instead of the big roll pin used on original models. I don't know if the current rails are made by Ruger in-house or if they are buying them from Samson or someone else.
Do you know if the new rails are considered by Ruger to be removable by the end user?
Yeah, pretty much. I have been generally keeping tracking of how many mags I take to the range full and how many come back home empty.
Ruger has made some small changes to their design--or more correctly the parts used--in recent times. Guns currently shipping will probably have Samson BUIS rather than the Troy brand. Also the rail system used now has two Allen screws that clamp around the barrel nut instead of the big roll pin used on original models. I don't know if the current rails are made by Ruger in-house or if they are buying them from Samson or someone else.
Do you know if the new rails are considered by Ruger to be removable by the end user?
Nope. The basic set-up remains the same. They just changed the way the rail attaches to the barrel nut.
I have had good results with this rifle and really enjoy shooting it but there are two things I would change. First would be the weight. The fluted barrel does a decent job of chopping weight over the standard SR556 but I'd like to see another model introduced with a lighter profile barrel. The second thing I'd change is the mounting of the transfer rod. It should be accessible by the shooter even if it means taking out a couple pins or something. It doesn't need to be something that's pulled out of the rifle every time it gets a cleaning but it would be nice to be able to pull the transfer rod out for periodic inspection if nothing else.
I couldn't agree more.
I have had good results with this rifle and really enjoy shooting it but there are two things I would change. First would be the weight. The fluted barrel does a decent job of chopping weight over the standard SR556 but I'd like to see another model introduced with a lighter profile barrel. The second thing I'd change is the mounting of the transfer rod. It should be accessible by the shooter even if it means taking out a couple pins or something. It doesn't need to be something that's pulled out of the rifle every time it gets a cleaning but it would be nice to be able to pull the transfer rod out for periodic inspection if nothing else.
Dang. This thread is nearly two years old and I'm just now hitting 7,500 rounds through the gun and 2,500 rounds since last cleaning.
I've just completed the IALEFI master instructor development course. It was a fun three days of shooting.
Day One focused on the handgun. We spent a short time discussing shooter performance problems and then spent our range time working on a few drills.
Day Two was carbine with a few handgun transitions thrown in for good measure. I shot my SR556C for the day and had good luck with it. Unfortunately my Leupold Prismatic took a dump on me early in the morning and I had to use irons for a good portion of the day.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Leupold/utf-8BSU1HLTIwMTMwMzA1LTAwMzU0LmpwZw_zps0042445d.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Leupold/utf-8BSU1HLTIwMTMwMzA1LTAwMzU2LmpwZw_zps6e2393fa.jpg
I have been enjoying the Prismatic and it isn't my intention to bash Leupold as I'm sure this is just a fluke. But it does reinforce the notion that some sort of alternate sighting device is needed on a rifle that might be used as a primary self defense tool. I'll call Leupold later this morning and get the optic shipped back for repair ASAP.
Anyway, during the course of the second day, we ran through a good number of carbine drills to include some 50yd and 100yd accuracy work. We ran through a bit over 300 rounds and this, finally, put me at the 7,500 round mark. The Ruger hasn't been cleaned in two years and it is getting rather dirty but it still runs like it should.
Day Three was all shotgun with a couple pistol transitions when getting a click rather than a bang. Most of the drills were conducted on steel targets with some accuracy work on paper at 25 and 50 yards using rifled slugs.
Since it was taken FOREVER to get to this stage, I think it might be a good time to take the Ruger apart and snap a few photos. I guess, if nothing else, it will be a good way to document how dirty the rifle gets as I continue to limp toward 10,000 rounds.
Thank you for taking the time to post!
Dist. Expert 26
03-07-13, 17:33
Looks really good for the round count you're at. I bought one shortly before I enlisted so I've only been able to put about 1k rounds through it, but I hope it looks as good as yours when I get to that point.
I had one question though that I'm hoping someone can answer- Is it possible to change out the rail system? I'd really like to run a free float tube setup to cut down on weight. I'd be willing to pay a gunsmith if it would be required.
I saw a post on a local forum this week where a member had attempted to remove the INTEGRAL flash hider off of his SR556. Turned the FH into a mangled twisted mess and split the barrel in the process. WECSOG at its finest.
Excellent reports -- thank you.
The wear you are seeing on the bottom rear radius of the upper is from the front of the expanded anti-tilt "Bulge" on the tail of the carrier guiding the assembly into center in the upper as it goes forward into battery. No big deal.
I think it actually helps with the carrier group consistently coming back into coaxial battery.
PICS PLEASE!
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
I saw a post on a local forum this week where a member had attempted to remove the INTEGRAL flash hider off of his SR556. Turned the FH into a mangled twisted mess and split the barrel in the process. WECSOG at its finest.
Excellent reports -- thank you.
The wear you are seeing on the bottom rear radius of the upper is from the front of the expanded anti-tilt "Bulge" on the tail of the carrier guiding the assembly into center in the upper as it goes forward into battery. No big deal.
I think it actually helps with the carrier group consistently coming back into coaxial battery.
The idea that the increased rear radius on the carrier helps the carrier when going back into battery makes sense. This might be one of the unexplored benefits of the enlarged tail.
Wear points in the rifle seem to have really leveled off and I don't think anything looks any different than it did about 2,500 rounds ago. Same with the fouling. The interior of the upper is dirty, as is the exterior of the bolt and carrier, but the crud seems to have sort of petered out. With that said, the barrel extension is looking pretty nasty.
I'll see if I can't get some photos of the rifle in its current filthy condition posted within the next couple days. I'll try to take photos of the same parts/areas posted above.
whitecoyote
03-08-13, 22:55
I've been watching this thread for some time. Thanks for the report on the Ruger. :big_boss:
Here's the SR556C with 7,500 rounds fired. Again, this is 2,500 rounds fired with no cleaning. I've added oil a few times (probably too much since it looks like most of the oil has turned into some sort of slurry) but no maintenance otherwise.
Internal wear really seems to have leveled off and I don't notice anything that looks any different from where it was 2,500 rounds ago. All the finish is worn off the face of the trigger and much of the finish has been worn off the bolt stop. The dust cover detent is getting pretty loose from being hit by the bolt carrier. There's a pretty good amount of carbon under the gas block and some carbon accumulation that's bled out of the gas regulator. Even with the accumulated crud, the gun's running just fine on gas setting #2.
I didn't disassemble and photograph the gas piston parts. I'm actually waiting to remove those because I'm curious to see if the regulator, etc will freeze up with accumulated fouling.
Without further ado, here are the pictures.
An overall photo of the carbine.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020028_zps11e1fcc4.jpg
The buffer and lip of the buffer tube.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020050_zpsbed499a3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020049_zps2a514530.jpg
Operating parts out of the upper.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020037_zps937b4bd0.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020039_zps50ff32af.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020038_zpsa6ce577b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020040_zpsdb182c54.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020041_zps5c94728f.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020042_zpscec0c752.jpg
Fouling near the muzzle and gas block.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020036_zps49c1f60d.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020035_zps9edad97e.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020034_zps170c7fa3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020033_zps7ae10e47.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020032_zpsb95e1f61.jpg
Inside the upper and barrel extension.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020046_zpsab736060.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020045_zps88a36967.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020044_zps517cbbe5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020043_zps58c43aa2.jpg
Cagemonkey
03-09-13, 18:00
Impressive. So far it seems Ruger has got its stuff together as far as AR Piston designs go.
callen3615
03-09-13, 18:16
Wear!!!....that looks pretty normal to me!! No carrier tilt!! Do you have the new carrier design on that 556C? That is impressive!!! I think this might settle some of the critics down a little.
You havent been here long have you ?
You havent been here long have you ?
Considering that post you quoted is almost 2 years old...
Here are a few more photos of the bolt and carrier as well as inside the upper.
I should note that the lower isn't showing any tilt wear to the buffer tube but it has not always been used on this upper. It is the factory Ruger lower but I've used this upper on a full-auto lower on a number of occasions so the round count is going to be off a bit.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020062_zps4847a81a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020061_zps4df7937b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020060_zps99163409.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020059_zps02aee588.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020055_zps4452806b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020053_zps50d1e317.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1020052_zpsffde7527.jpg
I have the Prismatic back from Leupold. I don't have it back on the carbine yet but will hopefully have it all back together in a few days.
Sent from my Torque using Tapatalk 2
This really is an amazing thread. Thank you for all the effort. My SR556c is my current patrol rifle and I'm near the 7500 mark. It was a gift from Ruger about a month after the rifle was released, and since then it has been 100%. I honestly cannot recall a single malfuction with this rifle. The perm attached FH was really the only thing that bugged me about the design, so I had Hank Fleming Gunsmith cut, thread and then perm attach an FSC556. Added an H2 buffer, Springco Blue, and the BCM extractor kit, and it is GTG in every course I have dragged it through. The 1/9" barrel never bothered me as our duty ammo is all 64gr Gold-dot.
How well have you kept this rifle lubricated?
How well have you kept this rifle lubricated?
I've kept the bolt and carrier pretty wet and have been adding a few drops of additional oil every few hundred rounds. I probably have it too oily and will lay off adding more lube at this point unless the action gets sluggish.
Can you post some photos of your carbine? I would like to see how yours looks with the new muzzle device. I would also like to see if you have any wear going on inside your gun that's different from mine.
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I'll have the Mrs snap a couple picks of it later today. I must say, mine shows much less wear than most, but it is for sure over 6600 rounds. I have kept it very well lubricated over the past 1-2k with tw-25b all over the BCG and charging handle and the wear has almost seized to progress.
I'll have the Mrs snap a couple picks of it later today. I must say, mine shows much less wear than most, but it is for sure over 6600 rounds. I have kept it very well lubricated over the past 1-2k with tw-25b all over the BCG and charging handle and the wear has almost seized to progress.
How does the wear compare to what you can see in mine? Do you have any wear in the buffer tube near the buffer detent? What about inside the upper from the cam pin gouging into the area just behind its recess?
Sent from my Torque using Tapatalk 2
Tokarev, cam pin recess wear in the AR/M4/M16 is normal regardless whether you're using a standard cam pin or roller, or whether it's a piston or direct impingement. Several USAMU shooters wrote they could be on the third or fourth barrel when the wear got to where there might be oil seepage to the outside.
Colt is using a steel shim in the 901 to prevent some wear:
http://i49.tinypic.com/2ql643c.jpg
PWS:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/PWS%20DC-12/DSCN0781.jpg
LMT:
http://i44.tinypic.com/24xgi2s.jpg
BCM:
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j341/t7337/IMG_5665.jpg
Tokarev, cam pin recess wear in the AR/M4/M16 is normal regardless whether you're using a standard cam pin or roller, or whether it's a piston or direct impingement.
True enough, for sure. I've seen some DI guns with some pretty nasty gouging that mimics anything I've seen in piston guns. Some makers, SIG as an example, have started relieving the area behind the cam pin recess to prevent this wear from occurring in the first place.
Some people have theorized that guns like the Ruger, without gas rings that center the bolt in the carrier, will show more wear than a DI gun. The idea is that, minus the rings, the bolt sort of "flops" around inside the carrier. Adding things like small springs behind the bolt or leaving or adding rings supposedly helps keep the cam pin gouging to a minimum.
I talked to Stacey from Primary Weapons once about the spring behind the bolt and its effect on cam pin drag. He told me that the spring may help reduce drag to a certain extent but PWS used it to help make the gun easier to re-assemble!
Anyway, I have a couple Ruger piston guns and haven't seen any horrific gouging and I'm curious to see if another rifle with a fairly high round count is showing anything alarming in this area.
I'll have the Mrs snap a couple picks of it later today.
Have you had the chance to take pictures?
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I am so sorry, I sure have. I forgot about this thread. I will have them up when I get off Duty in the AM.
:)
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Is the stock buffer a standard carbean buffer? We swapped it out for an H3 yesterday and tamed the recoil quite a bit.
These guns ship with a standard (unmarked) regular carbine buffer. The carbine used here is unmodified in that regard.
I do have a Ruger SR-556E that I had rebarreled. I am using a VLTOR A5 buffer system with it. I am currently running the heavy H4 buffer and that really seems to have given the gun a very flat recoil impulse. I also have an AAC Breakout muzzle device installed.
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Thomas M-4
05-17-13, 17:28
The only gas operated design ever that does not have off axis force is the AR. The engine in your car takes you down the road with "off axis force". Doesn't seem to be too big of a problem, either with the Ruger or your car. Off axis force is a red herring. Another red herring is that a rifle must be purpose built for a piston, not adapted. Adaptation is the most important source of progress. Without adaptation we would still be in the bronze age.
I have to have a chuckle on this one. The AR is the only gas operated design that has no off axis force. There fore we should adapt older design that does have an off axis force. If we didn't we would still be in the Bronze Age.:lol: Hell man I have seen v-6 that had 1 .040" bore and 2 .020" bore and 3 std sized bores and it actually ran pretty smooth (never thought it would have though) but it still doesn't make it right .
Sorry for the delay, been busy at work.
Also sorry for crap pics, wasn't sure what upload size limit was. But what you can see is the only significant wear I have experienced. As I said, wear seem to have seized with moderate application of TW-25B
Thanks for posting your pictures.
From what I can see, there's nothing going on in your sample that isn't going on in mine.
Some of the first guns Ruger put out had some significant wear going on at the leading edge of the buffer tube. Ruger seems like they were pretty quick to switch to a bolt carrier with a radius that keeps the carrier from scraping the buffer tube. I think Ruger underestimated the public expectations regarding carrier tilt but I'm glad they reacted and took steps to address it.
Anyone else have a Ruger with a decent amount of use? Can you please post pictures?
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did you put a BCM extractor upgrade kit in this gun?
did you put a BCM extractor upgrade kit in this gun?
Are you having extraction issues with yours? I haven't had any trouble with mine as long as I use brass cased stuff. The failures I have had have been stuck cases and torn rims with some brands/weights of steel.
I am running whatever Ruger shipped the gun with. I don't remember what color extractor insert it has. I think there's an O ring in there but can't recall for certain. I'll have to take a peek.
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Wow! This project has been too long off the radar!
As of this morning I'm now at 8,500 rounds fired. 1,500 to go until I reach 10,000 and give the gun a good cleaning.
The gun is still running fine and I've not had any problems with it. With that said, the dust cover detent did fail today at about 8,400 rounds fired. I do make a habit of closing the dust cover every time the safety goes back on and the gun comes off target.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160331/88e2c7f305d9a353457606835125f30e.jpg
You're reply today made me go back and read all 14 pages up to this point.
I have to say, seeing the development of the life of this rifle, it's awesome to see.
I may just have to do that same with my Adams Arms to verify wear patterns and such. (as it's just a stock AA15 Carbine Length Piston) and see how it goes from there.
Nonetheless, thank you for your time and tenure here. This post was educational and informative.
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this thread. I should have had this whole thing wrapped up a long time ago but other things have taken much of my attention.
I'll try to get this project up and rolling again and get things finished off within the next couple of months.
As of this morning I'm now at 9,000 rounds fired. Nothing unusual to report. I did get the gas block hot enough to melt my VTAC sling though...
300 rounds left!
I had a bolt over base malfunction this morning. But it only happened once and was with an old Sanchez USGI mag. Could be a fluke or it could be an indication that bolt velocity has increased to the point where I might see reliability issues. But I can always just run the gun on the small gas setting if that is the case.
Plan is to finish off my ammo next week. I'll then field strip and photograph the parts. I'll give everything a good cleaning and take another set of photos.
Once photographs are taken I'll look everything over. I'll likely replace the extractor, firing pin and buffer spring and then put everything back together and keep on shooting. After everything is cleaned up nicely I want to get the gun on paper at 100 yards and see if it'll still hold the 2moa or so it has always seemed capable of.
More very soon hopefully.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160701/2ab19a110f99162126b3f500fef163f9.jpg
10,000 round update posted here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?186016-Ruger-SR556C-at-10-000-Rounds-A-Photo-Essay&p=2344180&posted=1#post2344180
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