View Full Version : Sig P226 Tac Ops Questions/Problems
Okay so I made a trade this weekend for a brand new Sig P226 Tactical Operations 9mm pistol w/night sights. I've never shot a Sig and I don't know much about their stuff; but I liked it and made the trade (this gun is gorgeous and feels very good to me), went to the range, and put about 100 rounds of Magtech FMJ through it. I took it slow for the first 30-ish rounds to see how it groups. Very good! Then I started having problems. 1. Slide wouldn't lock back after the last round with all 4 of the 20 rnd mags which I only loaded with 5-10/mag. This happened the majority (70%) of the time. Now I know why. My dominant hand thumb rests on the slide lock lever (see pics) which would prevent it from catching the slide. 2. Had ONE failure to eject a spent round on maybe the 20th-ish round. 3. Empty mags won't fall free with the slide locked back.
So here are my questions. 1. Does any of this sound familiar? 2. Is it because the gun is brand new and just needs broken in? 3. Besides changing my grip, is there anything I can do about the slide lock lever so it will reliably lock slide after last round?
I really love this gun but I'm very disappointed so far about these issues. Keep in mind I've had this gun for 2 days and need way more practice with it but I haven't had any issue like this with my M&P and in my mind, a factory $1000 gun shouldn't really have these kinds of hiccups. Any info/advice is greatly appreciated!
Reagans Rascals
04-25-11, 04:34
Congrats on the new acquisition. I love SIG and have an older P226 .40 cal. I think your issue with the gun stems mainly from it being a brand new gun. I think it just needs to be broken in. The P226 beat out a lot of others to earn a place as the secondary of choice to Naval Special Warfare personnel. So there is no doubt you have a very capable, strong hand gun. IMO, my SIG .40 is the most accurate stock gun I have ever shot. I bought it used, with standard sites and I can hold sub-2 inch groups at 40 yards with it.
This issue with the slide lock engagement on the other hand, may require a little more preemptive action if you so so choose. You can disassemble the gun, which really isn't too difficult, and then shave a little off the slide lock release lever. There is a 6 part series on youtube that shows you exactly how to do it all.
here is the link to the videos: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=SIG%20slide%20lock&search=Search&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&spell=1
good luck:D
Magic_Salad0892
04-25-11, 06:19
Congrats on the new acquisition. I love SIG and have an older P226 .40 cal. I think your issue with the gun stems mainly from it being a brand new gun. I think it just needs to be broken in. The P226 beat out a lot of others to earn a place as the secondary of choice to Naval Special Warfare personnel. So there is no doubt you have a very capable, strong hand gun. IMO, my SIG .40 is the most accurate stock gun I have ever shot. I bought it used, with standard sites and I can hold sub-2 inch groups at 40 yards with it.
This issue with the slide lock engagement on the other hand, may require a little more preemptive action if you so so choose. You can disassemble the gun, which really isn't too difficult, and then shave a little off the slide lock release lever. There is a 6 part series on youtube that shows you exactly how to do it all.
here is the link to the videos: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=SIG%20slide%20lock&search=Search&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&spell=1
good luck:D
No offence, but not only was that when SIG had an amazing reputation in the civilian sector, but I'm pretty sure the ones SIG sends to them now are a lot different than the ones we civies get.
Reagans Rascals
04-25-11, 06:37
No offence, but not only was that when SIG had an amazing reputation in the civilian sector, but I'm pretty sure the ones SIG sends to them now are a lot different than the ones we civies get.
why are you hijacking this thread... you provided no response to the OP's question, you simply posted your opinion... how about next time... if you don't like something... you don't waste your time commenting on it
Magic_Salad0892
04-25-11, 07:21
why are you hijacking this thread... you provided no response to the OP's question, you simply posted your opinion... how about next time... if you don't like something... you don't waste your time commenting on it
Hm. Probably good advice. Don't think I was attacking you though.
For the OP: Could be the magazines.
My dominant hand thumb rests on the slide lock lever (see pics) which would prevent it from catching the slide.
Perhaps you are not looking for technique critique, but I would make an attempt to adjust your grip a little. Your thumbs both appear a little high on the slide from my perspective. Looking at the pic that shows your grip, I would try to get your support hand thumb lower and a touch farther forward to balance the gun better. With a high initial grip (on the draw) with your strong hand, if your support thumb ended up off the slide, with the pad of the thumb resting just in front of the takedown lever, you would find your support wrist rotated forward enough to allow your strong hand thumb to move slightly lower. In general this results in a better balanced weapon (and less interference). Slightly more "thumbs forward" might help.
I say all this (as a firearms instructor) knowing that that one photo is not enough info to go by (stance, weapon control, etc.). But it's a start if you feel like experimenting. I would do that long before making modifications to the weapon.
YMMV.
Littlelebowski
04-25-11, 10:20
why are you hijacking this thread... you provided no response to the OP's question, you simply posted your opinion... how about next time... if you don't like something... you don't waste your time commenting on it
He responded to your off topic comment. You're just as much at fault.
On topic; I agree that it sounds like it might be grip. No way to know for sure.
Thanks for your replies and your thoughts. I've decided I can train around the slide lock issue. My biggest concern about this gun now is why the mags, empty or not, will not drop free with the slide locked back. All 4 factory new 20 round mags fail to drop free with the slide locked back. Although I haven't cleaned it yet, it is not that dirty. I only put like 80-100 rounds through it so far and not once have they dropped free from slide lock. This is not good! Any thoughts??
Littlelebowski
04-25-11, 17:05
Thanks for your replies and your thoughts. I've decided I can train around the slide lock issue. My biggest concern about this gun now is why the mags, empty or not, will not drop free with the slide locked back. All 4 factory new 20 round mags fail to drop free with the slide locked back. Although I haven't cleaned it yet, it is not that dirty. I only put like 80-100 rounds through it so far and not once have they dropped free from slide lock. This is not good! Any thoughts??
Yes. Send it back to Sig. Call their customer service. Let the manufacturer deal with it.
Are they mec gar or check mate? I had heard rumors that sig changed to check mate mags and have had nothing but issues with them.
Also a lot of folks that haven't used sigs before tend to ride the slide stop. You might want to try and move your thumb away from the slide stop, especially if you use anything like the letham/enos grip.
If you are still having issues then you might want to ship it back to sig.
Regards,
Chris
Have you tried shooting it one handed? That way your support hand won't be on the slide stop. If it lock's back when you shoot one handed then you know that its your grip.
Again, thanks for your replies! Yes, I know it's my grip. Not really any way around it except to train around around it and get used to it if I decide to keep this gun. And as for the mags, I don't know what manufacturer made them. It doesn't say, unless it's hidden underneath the mag extension. And a slight correction: the only time the mags do not drop free is with rounds in the mag and slide locked back. As this is a somewhat rare circumstance, I don't really see the problem in it now. I can't really think of a situation where the slide would be locked back with rounds in the mag. It just comes as a surprise when I'm used to mags dropping free under any circumstance. I'm going to put about 500 or so rounds through it before I jump to any conclusions though. If it's still having problems, then I'll contact Sig or something. As always, I appreciate your advice! Be safe.
Back before Sigs were generally abandoned in the competition shooting world, many of the guys advocated resting the strong hand thumb more on the skin of the support hand. You get to keep the high, thumbs forward placement while keeping your finger clear of the slide catch. If you're having trouble visualizing it, just take the grip you're using now, and simply slide your thumb to the left if you're facing the rear of the gun.
Just another thought. ?Have you tried shooting a 226 with the newer E2 grips. Mine feels a great deal better with them, and it might allow you to grip it more easily.
I have small hands and sometimes have the same issue you are having. When I shoot my Sig, I often try a grip like the one below. It may not be optimum or ideal, but it could be worth a try.
I apologize for the bad cell phone picture.
http://pages.suddenlink.net/barleystout/004.jpg
The slide not locking back on the last round fired is a common issue with Sigs. Mostly, because the location of the slide catch lever is further to the rear of the pistol than most other firearms designs. I prefer to slingshot my slide on reloads, so I decided to get a slide catch lever, and cut it down. It made a huge difference on my P228, and I can still operate the lever just fine:
http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/scott19761442/IMG_2049.jpg
Don't worry, I kept all the original parts in their factory condition for resale someday. :D
I'm not going to go into questionable quality control issues with Cohen Sig Sauer. However, a lot of officers in my agency that use P226 9mms have had failures to lock back the slide on the last round fired with the new recoil springs. Even old W. German Sigs that ran like there was no tomorrow seem to suffer similar problems with the new recoil springs. I suspect that Sig Sauer has increased the recoil spring weight to compensate for +P and +P+ ammunition on the market which was not as widely used when the P226 was designed. The old Sigarms company kept all the original specs, including spring specs which is why cycling problems didn't come up that often. The new spring weight makes the slide finicky about traveling all the way to the rear to full eject brass, and lock the slide to the rear with weaker ammunition. So, cheap 115gr practice ammo, or green ammo will give you some problems. You might even have problems with standard pressure 124gr or 147gr target ammo if your gun is dirty and not well lubed. Try shooting a buch of 9mm NATO and see how it does.
This seems to be a problem with a lot of newer 9mm gun designs now days which try to compensate for powerful +P+ ammunition and have a very high level of durability, but it makes them unreliable with weak practice ammo. 4th Gen Glocks, Sigs,.....even the P30 gets a little finicky with light loads.
Reagans Rascals
04-30-11, 10:21
where you able to get the mags to fall free?
Just picked up the same gun except in .40 so the mags each hold 15 rounds instead of 20. As soon as I got it, I put it through the paces in term of dry firing and running through speed and tac reloading. During the drills, all four mags failed to drop free. I compensated by doing a quick 45 degree rotation of the gun and the magazines would drop only 50% of the time. I went to the range today and put about 300 rounds through it. No malfunctions of any kind after working the gun pretty hard. I didn't have any issues with the slide locking back. However, 3 out of the 4 mags still failed to drop during both speed and tactical reloading drills. It's been cleaned and oiled and as I'm typing this I'm running through each of the magazines and the same 3 still fail to drop freely. Frustrating. Hopefully this is just a mag issue because I intended use this .40 Tac Ops to replace my current duty weapon (which is a 226 in 9mm). futureAT, let me know if your mag issue has been resolved and what you did for it.
nutnless220
05-04-11, 19:14
Just picked up the same gun except in .40 so the mags each hold 15 rounds instead of 20. As soon as I got it, I put it through the paces in term of dry firing and running through speed and tac reloading. During the drills, all four mags failed to drop free. I compensated by doing a quick 45 degree rotation of the gun and the magazines would drop only 50% of the time. I went to the range today and put about 300 rounds through it. No malfunctions of any kind after working the gun pretty hard. I didn't have any issues with the slide locking back. However, 3 out of the 4 mags still failed to drop during both speed and tactical reloading drills. It's been cleaned and oiled and as I'm typing this I'm running through each of the magazines and the same 3 still fail to drop freely. Frustrating. Hopefully this is just a mag issue because I intended use this .40 Tac Ops to replace my current duty weapon (which is a 226 in 9mm). futureAT, let me know if your mag issue has been resolved and what you did for it.
Back your grip screws out a few turns and see if the mags drop free.
There are differant screws for differant grips, maybe you got the wrong ones from the factory.
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm still in a major university city so I haven't had the time or place to run the gun besides more dry practice. I just want to make this clear that all mags drop free EXCEPT with rounds in the mag and slide locked back. This is the only time they do not drop free. The only way they drop in this condition is if I pull them out, or VIOLENTLY rotate/shake the gun. I tried backing the grip screws out as well yielding the same results. Regardless, they do seem to drop free sometimes with a fully loaded (20) mag; but it's still not reliable. I'm not too worried about this issue at the moment. Like I said, when I get back home where I can run it, I will put about 500 more rounds through it and if I'm still not satisfied, I intend to sell it. Ugh, I hate to do that because it's such a nice gun but hey, if it doesn't work for me then it just wasn't meant to be. I'll put the ~$900+ towards an M&P 9 or a new AR :) I'll update after I run it in the next few weeks.
Regards.
If you enjoy the gun, then why sell it over a simple mag issue? Call SIG and tell them of the problem, and I'm sure that they will replace the mags.
I have been hearing that the 20 round mags are coming from Checkmate, which are shit. Find some factory 15 round mags or mec-gars and see how it works. I'm sure that would solve your problems.
vereceleritas
05-05-11, 07:39
Like others have said, try some different magazines. About the loaded mags not dropping free with the slide locked back, maybe the slide release is putting pressure on the rounds somewhere and causing them to bind slightly. I'd definitely give Sig a call and see what they have to say.
Mags are the problem so many times. Be patient. I had issues with two guns during break in, one a HK P30 (pretty descent gun i hear;). Slide lock was my grip and cycling issues went away for life after 200 rounds or so.
I know how it is to buy a gun and say, Oh **** , I got a lemon. Probably got some marginal mags and the gun needs to be stretched out a few more hundred rounds. And some guns don't like some ammo.
Stick with your gun. I bet you get all the kinks worked out. Home defense ammo will often make that thing rock and roll with a little better charge too. I'll give you $250 right now , no questions asked:D
Good luck.
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