View Full Version : Proper savage model 10 maintenance?
italius222
04-25-11, 18:11
I cant seem to find a good maintenance guide for my savage model 10. a guide that gives proper disassembly, proper cleaning, proper lubrication, etc....
any1 have a good link?
Don't know if you're looking for more than just the manual but maybe this helps you out some
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=79458
italius222
04-26-11, 15:32
this is a great resource, thanks. it doesnt go too in depth about lubrication though
Clean the barrel when accuracy drops off. Use a good one piece rod and bore guide. Proper copper solvent and brush then a powder/carbon solvent.
Clean the chamber too. I use cotton rags to clean the action with a bit of solvent and wooden rod. Take the bolt down every so often and spray with some decent cleaner. Use the friction modified oil of your choice. Just a light wipe over. Grease the back of the bolt head once you have moved the washer back to the other position. I use cam grease but any decent product will do it. Grease the cocking ramp and other high load surfaces. A light wipe over. In dusty enviroments I would make sure I was not using "sticky" products
That's about it ;)
Alpha Sierra
04-27-11, 11:38
If your barrel is chrome-moly steel and its bore is not chrome plated, you should clean it every time you use it.
I left the barrel of my Howa dirty after a weekend of shooting and a week later the copper fouling was turning blue/green in it. I immediately cleaned it good and thankfully there was no pitting.
If you can't do a thorough cleaning at least run an oily patch through to keep corrosion at bay.
When I had a Savage Model 10 I learned this tip: Don't clean the barrel until the patches are clean! I use to then it would take me a bit to get my accuracy back. I spoke with some other Savage shooters and they said the same thing. I was told by one of our barrel providers this was due to the imperfections in the barrels being coated. I don't know if this is true on the newer Savage's.
I personally feel that all the voodoo of precision gun cleaning is rubbish. Every 150-200 round I'll make sure to run some hoppes elite down the barrel and run a bore-snake through it. Otherwise I just run the snake through it occasionally to prevent any moisture build-up in the barrel, Espescially after shooting in damp or rainy days. I'll wipe off the bolt and clean the chamber after 40-50 rounds or after a day of heavy shooting. You will never find me putting any copper solvent in my barrel, EVER. After cleaning i'll take a fingertip of oil and hit the lugs and one drop down the receiver wall across the ejection port. A real thorough cleaning will include bolt disassembly to make sure the firing pin is not gunked up.
It's not necessarily the right way, but it's my way and it works for me.
I need to do a general guide in regard to precision barrels, mainly bolt guns. I did one for AR's and is in the AR general section.
Bottom line, go to any good barrel manufacturer and follow their guidelines for cleaning their barrels. I think there's two extremes, pure silly over cleaning, then the opposite, neglect. Now, the definitions of both are up for debate and will be debated until the end of time.
Please, you paid some hard earned money for it, take care of it. Done right, cleaning will not hurt a thing. It sure would be sad to pick that stick up and realize the "why waste time cleaning" earned you a pitted barrel.
Even a base cleaning would take maybe 10 minutes if that.
I'll work on a sticky soon.
Mark
Alpha Sierra
05-03-11, 18:14
Every gun is different. None of my Savages take more than a few shots to foul.
As for the copper, if you left it long enough for that to happen then you have rust issues and pitting. Those of us who only clean when we need to clean do not see this. so what is different about your case? Why do uncoated projectiles not do the same thing over many years? Your long term example (months/years) of copper in extreme conditions is not what is going on in your case. Would steel have MUCH greater signs of corrosion in the same time period? Yes.
so the issue is something else.
There was oxidized copper in the bore. I saw it.
There was no pitting/corrosion of the underlying steel. I removed the copper fouling before that happened. I know because I looked in there.
I clean all my rifles ASAP after shooting. Handguns I'll let go a while longer.
I'm not going to go into the exact procedures I use to clean rifles since it's just a waste of oxygen. There are many methods that work and I am tired of mouth breathers screaming that I don't do enough/do too much/do it wrong.
I've been at the precision rifle game for too long to know what works for me and to waste my time defending what I do.
Copper does not oxidize that fast without an oxidizing. Air or moisture will not do it that fast. There is no debate or argument about this. This is what it is, a fact. None of your copper projectiles did this over the same time period did they?
Don't know what you saw but IF it was oxidized copper you have something natsy going on and need to find out what chemical is leaking around your storage area.
I personally feel that all the voodoo of precision gun cleaning is rubbish. Every 150-200 round I'll make sure to run some hoppes elite down the barrel and run a bore-snake through it. Otherwise I just run the snake through it occasionally to prevent any moisture build-up in the barrel, Espescially after shooting in damp or rainy days. I'll wipe off the bolt and clean the chamber after 40-50 rounds or after a day of heavy shooting. You will never find me putting any copper solvent in my barrel, EVER. After cleaning i'll take a fingertip of oil and hit the lugs and one drop down the receiver wall across the ejection port. A real thorough cleaning will include bolt disassembly to make sure the firing pin is not gunked up.
It's not necessarily the right way, but it's my way and it works for me.
What sized groups can you shoot? Mutiple 5's and 10's of course ;)
After how many rounds does your accuracy drop off?
Were you talking bolt gun or AR?
It's really easy to tell the guys who know from those that don't.
It's really easy to tell the guys who know from those that don't.
It's even easier to tell the elitist's from those that aren't.
I just got in from a 100rnd session with my DTA SRS using a factory DTA 22" 308 barrel. All of the shooting was at 300yds, and I was able to hit 1" bolt head's on the steel on command. I just checked the log book. This barrel is brand new, and was cleaned once when it was new. Other that that, no cleaning, no special break in, just shooting. HEAVY, unrelenting shooting. Today, my suppressor got so hot from 2 back to back 25rnd strings fired as fast as I could run the rifle accurately... I thought my suppressor cover was going to catch fire. Still, rounds 98, 99, and 100 went exactly where they were suppose to go.
So if you mean to suggest that only special cleaning ritual's can provide real accuracy, as you are so fond of suggesting, you are wrong.
The only REAL, UNBIASED answer to these types of questions is this: It's your rifle, go out and shoot and YOU tell US what it likes to be treated like.
Alpha Sierra hit the nail squarely on the head. The most vocal about cleaning regimens, are usually the ones pushing for you to do it their way rather than your own. I think it is a situation where they spend so much time on it, so they will feel better if they know others are as well.
....
I just got in from a 100rnd session with my DTA SRS using a factory DTA 22" 308 barrel. All of the shooting was at 300yds, and I was able to hit 1" bolt head's on the steel on command.
So your gun can shoot 1 inch 5 or 10 (mutiple) groups at 300? Actually, to be able to hit a 1inch target on demand you MUST be well under this. That's a bloody big claim to make!
Anyone taking what you say at face value after reading this claim is an idiot.
I just checked the log book. This barrel is brand new, and was cleaned once when it was new. Other that that, no cleaning, no special break in, just shooting. HEAVY, unrelenting shooting. Today, my suppressor got so hot from 2 back to back 25rnd strings fired as fast as I could run the rifle accurately... I thought my suppressor cover was going to catch fire. Still, rounds 98, 99, and 100 went exactly where they were suppose to go.
It's nice you (maybe) know what your gun can do, it's a real pity you just don't grasp that every gun is different. Do you think 100 rounds is a lot for a session? Do you think a barrel which wouldn't hold accuracy that long would be a good barrel? I've never had a factory barrel which didn't go way over that (I know some guys have though).
So if you mean to suggest that only special cleaning ritual's can provide real accuracy, as you are so fond of suggesting, you are wrong.
I said what I said, if you are too stupid to understand it then you should get some help. Really not interested in your contstant agression and games.
The only REAL, UNBIASED answer to these types of questions is this: It's your rifle, go out and shoot and YOU tell US what it likes to be treated like.
Which is what I have ALWAYS said yet you still argue and try to attack ;)
Alpha Sierra hit the nail squarely on the head. The most vocal about cleaning regimens, are usually the ones pushing for you to do it their way rather than your own. I think it is a situation where they spend so much time on it, so they will feel better if they know others are as well.
Mate, you have a years old pattern of baiting, attacks and agression in forums, it's not normal behaviour and you should sort yourself out.
It's so bad you can't even comprehend what has actually been said and just fly off into an attack even when you agree with the person you are ranting at. Constantly having "issues" with mutiple people is not normal. Either EVERYONE else is at fault or it's you. Draging crap from thread to thread, "following" people to do so (even though you steped out of other threads when pushed to answer questions instead of just attacking) is really poor behaviour.
I'm not saying this to offend you but it needs to be said.
/snip
Oh how confused you are. The personal attacks come from YOU... not I. "It's really easy to tell the guys who know from those that don't. " If you weren't patronizing tip2oo3 with that statement, please tell me what you were trying to do. I get sick of seeing your elitist attitude scare off members from participating in the discussion. So when you start preaching your "only clean barrels can be accurate" routine... I will post the opposing view.
You talk about reading into things... yet when I say I was hitting 1" bolt heads at 300yds on command last night, you assume I can do it EVERY time. I didn't claim that, now did I? You want to argue with me, you better do it based on the facts of the topic at hand, not what you think of me as a person. I attack your VIEWPOINT, you attack ME. This is how its gone in every thread of this nature. So maybe you should take a step back and realize that.
http://www.gregd.net/pics/guns/dotdrills/IMG_5360.JPG
There is a dot drill with over 200rnds through the barrel since cleaned. 1/2" dots at 100yds. The misses were due to the fact I'm using virgin winchester brass, and I still don't know how to shoot this rifle correctly yet since I've only got a combined round count of about 450 with the 338 and 308 conversions. Well that, and the fact I hammered through it as fast as I could. Even forgot to engage a dot. Oh and also the fact that I'm using a load developed for a different rifle. I expect it to improve. Be that as it may it still illustrates that a dirty bore can still shoot.
Littlelebowski
05-04-11, 10:41
this is a great resource, thanks. it doesnt go too in depth about lubrication though
That's because a light coat of oil or grease on the contact points on a bolt gun is all that's needed. Do you envision the oil burning off or something like a semi auto? It's not going to happen.
You are way over thinking this whole maintenance thing. Get out and shoot!
That's because a light coat of oil or grease on the contact points on a bolt gun is all that's needed. Do you envision the oil burning off or something like a semi auto? It's not going to happen.
You are way over thinking this whole maintenance thing. Get out and shoot!
This! :)
Grease is best used on the lugs. Oil doesn't stay long and won't prevent galling as well as grease in my opinion. A little goes a long way. After a while, you'll be able to tell when it dries up by the sound and feel of your bolt.
Also, take the barreled action out of the stock and rub a light coat of some kind of oil on everything. If you shoot in crappy weather or go from cold outside to warm inside... you might get some rust after a while under the barrel where it's covered by the stock. A light (i mean light) coat of oil will go a long way toward preventing this.
Alpha Sierra
05-04-11, 11:29
Copper does not oxidize that fast without an oxidizing. Air or moisture will not do it that fast. There is no debate or argument about this. This is what it is, a fact. None of your copper projectiles did this over the same time period did they?
Don't know what you saw but IF it was oxidized copper you have something natsy going on and need to find out what chemical is leaking around your storage area.
OK whatever.....
I'll call the local FD hazmat team to check it out.
OK whatever.....
I'll call the local FD hazmat team to check it out.
Better yet alpha... just to be on the safe side, you better send that rifle to me for some evaluation! Please provide 500rnds of ammo as well. I want to be thorough! :sarcastic:
Here is another instance of precision shooting with a barrel having upward of 300rnds since its last cleaning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKAflAu_zWQ
You can see by the video when I'm shooting the steel... its bullet on top of bullet out to 375yds. At 375, you had to shoot the A-zone in the head, twice... the A zone in the chest once, then shoot the steel twice, then break a clay pidgeon at 425. I cleaned every target on that course that day. (with a little fumble) ... otherwise I'd even have had an extra round when it was all over.
I won that competition... and earned myself a new ruger rifle. :)
Clean barrels aren't guaranteed to shoot. Nor are dirty barrels. However, the notion that you must clean at set intervals is not accurate. I've demonstrated it many times to non-believers in person with factory rifles and custom alike. I had to go dig up this video so I had some kind of proof behind my claims, as some apparently don't think I can shoot.
Alpha Sierra
05-04-11, 13:22
Better yet alpha... just to be on the safe side, you better send that rifle to me for some evaluation! Please provide 500rnds of ammo as well. I want to be thorough! :sarcastic:
Wait one, while I get to loading.
First off, let's all settle down and knock off the argueing, it serves no purpose when dealing with extremes beliefs.
As I stated earlier, until the end of time we will be "debating" the measure and frequency of cleaning. Everyones definitions are varied as well as the methods, etc, etc.
So much is not stated or lost in discussion when people talk about how often or after x number of rounds and how they do it. Bottoml ine,it is your property, treat it how you wish or if it's an issued weapon, treat it as mandated, peroid.
I won't scorn you if you clean after every session, after 500rounds, never, etc. I will call you a dumb ass if you chuck a rod in a drill or never clean and have rust, pitting. Please state your cleaning/lube practices and let others decide how they wih to do it. Frequency of shooting has alot to do with how often you may clean.
In regards to accuracy claims, there are so many variables to deal with when shooting. We have ontrol over the mechanical and human influence and learn to work with the environmentals. There are many good shooters and equipment out there, alot of puffery as well.
Wind is easy when constant, regardless of speed. Example--Now with a shifting fish tailing wind and you claim 100% hits at 1k on a "x" (small) target, I will call bullshit on that one. So,if I saw a target shot at let's say 600yards with 5 rounds that has maybe a 3" vertical spread on target with 1" horizontal--don't fool yourself in thinking you just shot a 1/2moa group--the wind helped you there.
Hopefully this helps a bit and let's keep it clean(discussion:cool:)
Now with a shifting fish tailing wind and you claim 100% hits at 1k on a "x" (small) target, I will call bullshit on that one.
Me too... unless they have video to prove it. :)
Now I do know that I can keep about 50% or more on a 12"x18" plate at 700yds in a 15-35mph wind. I posted that video. :sarcastic:
I'm with you on all accounts.
Me too... unless they have video to prove it. :)
Now I do know that I can keep about 50% or more on a 12"x18" plate at 700yds in a 15-35mph wind. I posted that video. :sarcastic:
I'm with you on all accounts.
No worries, We all have good days-and bad days on the range and usually wind can be one culprit. For instance, fairly steady wind I go 5 for 5 on a 12x12 at 1k one day--three days later, takes me 8 rounds to get a hit!, wind was actually less but ever changing direction.
For instance, fairly steady wind I go 5 for 5 on a 12x12 at 1k one day--three days later, takes me 8 rounds to get a hit!, wind was actually less but ever changing direction.
Likewise... which is why I advocate more SHOOTING than cleaning. :)
..
So when you start preaching your "only clean barrels can be accurate" routine... I will post the opposing view.
When and where did I say this? Your accusation, back it up. (and let's be clear about this, you keep telling people I have said something I have not)
You talk about reading into things... yet when I say I was hitting 1" bolt heads at 300yds on command last night, you assume I can do it EVERY time.
"On command" means to hit something as instructed or ordered. So sometimes you can, sometimes you can't?
I didn't claim that, now did I?
Yes, you did. That's exactly what you said. You didn't say "sometimes I can hit them" you said "I can hit them on command" It could also be taken as "I can hit them when I want"
It could not reasonably be taken as "I can sometimes hit them".
My last load dev at 300 had several groups (well, three shots) with shots under .5 inch. Do I claim myself or the gun can do this? Nope, it wouldn't be honest.
There is a dot drill with over 200rnds through the barrel since cleaned. 1/2" dots at 100yds. The misses were due to the fact I'm using virgin winchester brass, and I still don't know how to shoot this rifle correctly yet since I've only got a combined round count of about 450 with the 338 and 308 conversions. Well that, and the fact I hammered through it as fast as I could. Even forgot to engage a dot. Oh and also the fact that I'm using a load developed for a different rifle. I expect it to improve. Be that as it may it still illustrates that a dirty bore can still shoot.
So you can shoot better than this but this shows us what?
Superimpose those shots and we see something around a 1.5 inch group at 100. Is this anything to take note of?
Dot shooting is fun. That's all it is. Shooting a group improves your focus and concentration. Yes, I know a lot of guys think showing one shot going where they want it is good training because they won't need more than one shot. OTOH, putting 5 in the same spot is much harder and teaches you more ;)
Orkan, if anything I have said is not accurate please present factual information and correct me.
Note: I have NEVER said rifles NEED to be cleaned in XX round. I have ALWAYS said clean them when they need it. The continual accusations and claims that I have said something else need to be backed up or moved on from.
*Edit. I don't think this is an "attack" or abusive and I think the pattern of misrepresenting what I say needs to be answered or corrected.
OK whatever.....
I'll call the local FD hazmat team to check it out.
Copper CANNOT oxidized that fast without a STRONG oxidizer. Something so strong it's also damaging your lenses and other parts. You should be able to smell it.
Either what you saw was not what you think it was OR you have a real problem which you need to find the cause of.
We understand Copper really well. We know how it acts and reacts.
You know your projectiles don't oxidized that fast. so what's different? Do you keep solvents around your rifle storage? could one bottle be leaking?
Yes, you did. That's exactly what you said. You didn't say "sometimes I can hit them" you said "I can hit them on command" It could also be taken as "I can hit them when I want"
It could not reasonably be taken as "I can sometimes hit them".
My last load dev at 300 had several groups (well, three shots) with shots under .5 inch. Do I claim myself or the gun can do this? Nope, it wouldn't be honest.
I just got in from a 100rnd session with my DTA SRS using a factory DTA 22" 308 barrel. All of the shooting was at 300yds, and I was able to hit 1" bolt head's on the steel on command.
I've shown this to 5 different friends, and they all read it as me stating what I was able to do during that session. Not that my GUN is "x" or that I am "x" or that I can "sometimes" or that I "always" shoot like that. They infer from the statement what any non-argumentative person would: That during that session, with a rifle having a couple hundred rounds down the barrel, was able to hit 1" targets on command. My spotter called a bolt head... and I shot it. I repeated this for about 6 different bolts in a row before throwing one.
Do you clearly understand the statement now?
I've shown this to 5 different friends, and they all read it as me stating what I was able to do during that session. Not that my GUN is "x" or that I am "x" or that I can "sometimes" or that I "always" shoot like that. They infer from the statement what any non-argumentative person would: That during that session, with a rifle having a couple hundred rounds down the barrel, was able to hit 1" targets on command. My spotter called a bolt head... and I shot it. I repeated this for about 6 different bolts in a row before throwing one.
Do you clearly understand the statement now?
Words have a specific meaning, when people are expected to guess or "infer" you mean something you have not stated then those words need to be used in a different manner.
You said you can hit a 1 inch target "on command". Should I claim I can shoot .5inch groups at 300 because I did it a few times the other day? Unless I can demonstrate the act it's nothing other than being "lucky" that day.
Now, if you were shooting steel I can see how a bit of splatter would make it look like you hit it and maybe that explains this OR maybe you really are that good ;)
Orkan, mutiple times in this thread you have misrepresented what I have said about cleaning and accuracy. This the second challenge to either back it up or recant.
"So when you start preaching your "only clean barrels can be accurate" routine... I will post the opposing view."
Is what you claimed I said. It's time to back it up or recant. This is not the first time you have tried this on with me.
Mods, I appologise for replying and not letting this pass but it keeps happening and I feel this needs to be cleared up. Having someone keep misleading others about what has been said it not acceptable.
I started to edit out the bullshit in here and stopped, I'm closing it now.
You would think that pm's and post would be a clue to stop the nonsense.
orkan and AJS-both of you settle your ass down.
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