View Full Version : guntrustlawyer.com = quick as greased lightning
I called guntrustlawyer.com this morning, spent five minutes on the phone, handed over my CC number and got my trust via email this afternoon. They told me it would be a week before I saw the trust and I got it in under a day. Holy crap, that was fast. It's time to call Noveske.
And the answer to the obvious question ($) is ...................? Ballpark figure will suffice. :D
$600
It's a lot, but peace of mind that it is done properly and having a professional I can call with questions makes it worth it.
$600
It's a lot, but peace of mind that it is done properly and having a professional I can call with questions makes it worth it.
I agree. Sean Cody (SC-Texas) set mine up, and I think it's worth every penny. I'm doing my first NFA item, so it's nice to not worry about issues with the trust when the paperwork goes out.
madisonsfinest
04-26-11, 17:40
Did you shop around at all? I think a lot of gun stores could have given you some suggestions on what attorneys to use. My friend just got his done for $200.00 here in WI. Got his accepted by the BATF and now has two cans, and a 10.5 LWRC
Did you shop around at all? I think a lot of gun stores could have given you some suggestions on what attorneys to use. My friend just got his done for $200.00 here in WI. Got his accepted by the BATF and now has two cans, and a 10.5 LWRC
A friend of mine whom I trust in gun matters recommenced them. Peace of mind and cheap insurance comes with the price. These guys do plenty of them so I know they will do it right. Plus, I can call with all sorts of dumb ass questions anytime.
I agree. Sean Cody (SC-Texas) set mine up, and I think it's worth every penny. I'm doing my first NFA item, so it's nice to not worry about issues with the trust when the paperwork goes out.
What did Sean charge you ?
+1 for guntrustlawyer aka David Goldman. He knows his stuff.
What did Sean charge you ?
500 bucks.
RAM Engineer
04-26-11, 22:28
My father and I set up one through Mr. Goldman. If you split it with the other folks on your trust, it don't cost as much. ;)
Money well spent.
I am a firm believer that it is best to pay a little more now for peace of mind than to save a few $ and have problems later.
O
HOLY SHAZING-ZING! $600???? :eek:
That works out to paying $2400 per hour for something you could get for almost free... if not free.
For an NFA only trust??? That was a foolish move. Now if you have real assets that you need to go into a trust I could see it. But an NFA trust is just a mechanism to get through ATF bureacracy.
HOLY SHAZING-ZING! $600???? :eek:
That works out to paying $2400 per hour for something you could get for almost free... if not free.
For an NFA only trust??? That was a foolish move. Now if you have real assets that you need to go into a trust I could see it. But an NFA trust is just a mechanism to get through ATF bureacracy.
Nothing is free and to think otherwise is foolish.
A trust is more than a mechanism to get through bureaucracy. A trust is an entity of its own. You can list several people as trustees, all of whom can use the weapons listed on the trust. In this case, my brother, dad, wife and I are on the trust. One PROPERLY written trust for four people is a good deal. Plus, when I, the initial trustee, die, the weapons on the trust will remain with the trust and the successor trustee becomes the BMFIC and there are no headaches and no transferring of tax stamps needed.
What is foolish is trusting a program (quicken) to properly execute this document, or a lawyer who has never heard of a gun trust prior. I've had good lawyers screw up simple things like property deeds creating massive headaches. A trust is a living document which will hold thousands of dollars of weapons on it. This is a document which could mean the difference between federal pound me in the ass prison and a weekend of fun shooting.
You don't cut the corners on shit this important.
....This is a document which could mean the difference between federal pound me in the ass prison and a weekend of fun shooting.
You don't cut the corners on shit this important.
That right there is one reason I want to have a lawyer draw up mine when I get ready for an SBR or can. If $600 keeps me from being some dudes bitch when the govt decides that the "Quicken loop-hole" is no good, then so be it.
madisonsfinest
04-27-11, 09:15
I'm not saying don't use a lawyer. What I am saying is that usually gun shops that do a lot of sales of NFA items usually know a lot of the lawyers that are doing business there. This also means that it is something that they usually do regularly and are not some lawyer that doesn't know anything of trusts. You can shop and find a good price for the same service. There is nothing you can do as you have already paid to have it done. You are happy with that and that is great, you've got it done, and got what you wanted hopefully. I simply posted for all of the other interested people that will come to this thread and read it motivated to get a trust. Anyway post up your goodies when you get them back
A trust is more than a mechanism to get through bureaucracy.
Spoken like a man with considerable experience with the NFA and title ii weapons.
Much of what is being posted seems to be ideologically prompted, instead of sticking with cold hard facts. Kind of like discussing the political situation that is going on today. One side makes statements about something they believe in with little to no knowledge of the other side. Gets old pretty quick.
In my opinion, trusts are not complicated. How many people used Turbotax instead of hiring a high dollar "professional"?
What is needed is for someone to compare an NFA trust done by an experienced and knowledgeable Class 3 dealer, to one done by a lawyer. Obviously the lawyer should be versed in NFA issues, and unless they advertise such, then they probably aren't.
My bet is there would be not a whole lot of difference between the two, legality wise. If I were to win the bet, then money is the only real issue.
We are here to help one another out, by recommending quality products that save money, while increasing everyone's knowledge of provable facts. Everybody benefits that way.
I'm curious how one weighs the qualifications of the "gun trust lawyer"?
I'm curious how one weighs the qualifications of the "gun trust lawyer"?
Bingo, my thoughts exactly...
HOLY SHAZING-ZING! $600???? :eek:
That works out to paying $2400 per hour for something you could get for almost free... if not free.
For an NFA only trust??? That was a foolish move. Now if you have real assets that you need to go into a trust I could see it. But an NFA trust is just a mechanism to get through ATF bureacracy.
I think going through a lawyer is just fine. Spending $600 is not.
It is better to put the item in your own name (free) or start an LLC in your home selling rubber dog chit out of Hong Kong and put the NFA item in the business name (free).
C4
Much of what is being posted seems to be ideologically prompted, instead of sticking with cold hard facts. Kind of like discussing the political situation that is going on today. One side makes statements about something they believe in with little to no knowledge of the other side. Gets old pretty quick.
In my opinion, trusts are not complicated. How many people used Turbotax instead of hiring a high dollar "professional"?
What is needed is for someone to compare an NFA trust done by an experienced and knowledgeable Class 3 dealer, to one done by a lawyer. Obviously the lawyer should be versed in NFA issues, and unless they advertise such, then they probably aren't.
My bet is there would be not a whole lot of difference between the two, legality wise. If I were to win the bet, then money is the only real issue.
We are here to help one another out, by recommending quality products that save money, while increasing everyone's knowledge of provable facts. Everybody benefits that way.
Agree with your points.
I think that if we saw a LARGE portion of Trust's come back not approved, or we saw the ATF handing out fines, pulling tax stamps back (after they were given) or just denying Trust's all together, the lawyer route would make a lot of sense. Since we don't see any of the above, spending more than $200 on a lawyer to do what you can do for $60 just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
C4
Where the lawyer is useful, at least to me, is dispensation of the estate items in the case of your passing, etc. Yeah, I'm sure the $200 lawyer can help with that, but I'm quite satisfied with mine drafted to my particular circumstance. and he's never billed me for a followup call or question since he drafted the trust.
People love to snipe at these things for some reason. "You got a trust? you're a moron!" "you paid more for your trust than I did? You're an idiot!"
The trust, and who someone uses to draft same, is as much about trust and peace of mind as it is anything else. If that takes $600 for one guy then that's what it takes.
The LLC is superior to the trust in every way possible except if your state has high filing and high maintienace good standing fees.
I'm curious how one weighs the qualifications of the "gun trust lawyer"?
That's the point exactly. There must be an honest lawyer who is an M4c member, knows this topic, isn't advertising his knowledge/services in this area, and who can shed some light on all this.
I guess the comparison has to be against an "NFA knowledgeable" lawyer doing trusts, and a "trust knowledgeable" Class 3 dealer helping buyers.
In Florida:
there is no NFA trust, you have a Revocable Living Trust or you don't, that's what the state recognizes.
forming a LLC cost $166.00, then there's the $143.75 "Annual Report" fee. If you file your report after May 1 there's a $400.00 "late" fee.
if you pay for a trust in the morning and it's done that afternoon my opinion is you got a boilerplate product with your name and numbers installed, that my friend isn't worth 600.00 no matter where you live.
Until someone can tell me what makes a "NFA" trust special then it's just another sales tool. Until one is challenged and tested it's just another document. IF it gives you 600.00 worth of "peace of mind" and that's what you want, good for you, you got what you paid for.
Did I get a cut and paste document? I Sure did. Does that mean it is no good? Absolutely not. To think someone should pay an hourly rate for something like this is very short sighted. Professional schooling easily costs over a hundred fifty thousand dollars. When you go to a professional like a lawyer or Doctor off some kind you are paying for their education more than their time.
Sure, I could have split the cost with my brother and dad (who are also listed on the trust and thus can also put weapons on the trust), but sometimes a guy wants to do a nice thing. Merry effing Christmas. I feel confident I got a quality product and that the legal advice I am now entitled to will be equally as good. If I had looked up Joe Shmuckatelli neighborhood lawyer I would not be as confident. Lawyers specialize, just like MDs and they do it for a reason - there is a lot of crap to know and you can't know it all. Would you go to a Podiatrist to have a root canal? No.
I appreciate those of you telling me I spent too much in that you are trying to point others in a direction you would advise, but I am happy with my decision and would not dissuade anyone from following the same route. Fact is, if you don't have the money to spend on a good lawyer you should probably be putting the cost of an NFA weapon into something more important.
AAAh, the age old question aka Ah JEEze:big_boss:
In Florida: there is no NFA trust, you have a Revocable Living Trust or you don't, that's what the state recognizes.
Guys are just using "NFA Trust" as shorthand. Legally, they are talking about Living Trusts, whether revocable (recommended) or not.
When you go to a professional like a lawyer or Doctor off some kind you are paying for their education more than their time.
This is true. The prices you pay for "professional" services are more, not because they are necessarily worth it, but because the have educational bills to pay, not to mention their mansions, Mercedes', Porsches, etc.
Lawyers specialize, just like MDs and they do it for a reason - there is a lot of crap to know and you can't know it all. Would you go to a Podiatrist to have a root canal? .
I doubt anyone is really specializing in NFA Trusts. I assume they are adding it to their repertoire for additional income. I'm not saying they aren't doing them properly, or that they shouldn't get involved. I am saying they know it isn't hard. They could possibly have even learned the correct lingo from, dare I say it, a Class III Dealer.
Fact is, if you don't have the money to spend on a good lawyer you should probably be putting the cost of an NFA weapon into something more important.
I don't really have an intelligent response for that one.
I'm sure there are some who would never let a gunsmith work on his weapon of choice, unless he could show proof he had a degree in mechanical engineering. But even then, there would be no indication he was worth his salt working on a gun.
Everyone is still free in the U S of A to make his own choices, and if one feels good about the choice he made, then more power to him. Those who come close to disrespecting anyone else, for the choices they make, are not communicating in the best manner, and their words are better left unsaid.
Most on this site are current or ex-ilitary/police, industry professionals, or people heavy into the gun world. Let's all have a good time and learn from one another.
I am active duty navy.
I wonder if the fine folks at Navy legal would do this for me.
anyone sailor can walk in and get a will, living will, and such for free. as well as have a lol-yer look at a lease or mortgage for any funny buisness.
seems like a simple trust would be small potatoes for them.
though since I am naming mine "the Fuse firearms trust" I wonder if that would raise some eyebrows. and then telling them "oh this is just to make buying suppressors simpler.."
believe it or not DoD is not exactly pro gun for its members...
That right there is one reason I want to have a lawyer draw up mine when I get ready for an SBR or can. If $600 keeps me from being some dudes bitch when the govt decides that the "Quicken loop-hole" is no good, then so be it.
I highly doubt the "Quicken loop-hole" will ever be closed...and even if it did, you would not be charged with a crime as you would have done this "act" before it was considered illegal.
Like stated before, if it wasn't a viable means of obtaining an NFA item then the ATF would never accept it in the first place...
I understand wanting "just that much more" peace of mind, but just loosen the tin-foil hat in the process fellas.
I wonder if the fine folks at Navy legal would do this for me..
If they do Living Trusts, then an "NFA" trust would just be a slightly modified version. Have them do both for you. One for the NFA stuff and one for everything else. Trusts trump wills in many ways.
The difference would be in the schedule for "shared property placed in Trust". That's were the info. about NFA weapons is spelled out.
If they do Living Trusts, then an "NFA" trust would just be a slightly modified version. Have them do both for you. One for the NFA stuff and one for everything else. Trusts trump wills in many ways.
The difference would be in the schedule for "shared property placed in Trust". That's were the info. about NFA weapons is spelled out.
I may check it out then.
I have obtained quicken willmaker, but seems like it would be awesome having an actual lawyer do it for free. if not, quicken for me.
also, all I really need for them is the serial number of the can, right? because I just got that the other day :D
1371USMCFL
05-01-11, 00:50
That's a good idea Fuse. I've been thinking going the trust route to a) protect my parents as the rifle(s) would be kept at their house and b) be able to register it while not actually in the country (I think that's possible, right?) Seeing as I have no idea how to do legal documents, it would be nice to get some help when making a trust and free is good.
I may check it out then.
I have obtained quicken willmaker, but seems like it would be awesome having an actual lawyer do it for free. if not, quicken for me.
also, all I really need for them is the serial number of the can, right? because I just got that the other day :D
Use those legal people for everything you can while you are in. They can do it without serial numbers, or any specific info. on the weapon. You can add an addendum to the trust, listing the weapon specifically,once you have your NFA paperwork, and modify it with each new purchase or sale.
I did my trust through David Goldman (Guntrustlawyer.com). Got it for $500, he was running a "special." While I wasn't too thrilled with dropping that much money I like having the peace of mind that it's all squared away and he basically "warranties" the trust if some crap happens like in this scenario: http://blog.princelaw.com/2009/4/20/batfe-approves-u-invalid-u-trust
You never know when the government is going to pull some crap, especially under the current regime.
As far as it being a "Gun Trust," like someone said earlier, it's a Revocable Trust, there's no such thing as a "Gun Trust." The difference is that the trust through Goldman and his affiliates throughout the country has specific NFA language throughout it that assures the assets (firearms) are handled properly in case of your death or incapacitation.
If you can find another attorney to do it for cheaper, go for it.
One thing I wouldn't do would be getting a trust done up through a gun store. There are many gun stores throughout the country doing this and it's a dumb idea. I was offered this from the store I buy all of my AR stuff from, for around 50 bucs. I almost did it, hell of a price. But they use Quicken Willmaker, so If I was going to do that, I would just buy the damn program. First of all it's technically illegal for them to offer legal services (practice law) without a license. Secondly, they would only put one trustee and said I would have to have one added later by a lawyer, so why not go through an attorney in the first place.
I felt like $500 was worth it. I know that my family, career, and firearms are protected.
I almost went the CLEO/Fingerprint route, but then the government can come get my guns if something happens to me. Yeah I'll be dead, but screw them, they aren't taking my guns.
My overall opinion is that it's friggin retarded that I need to register a rifle that is 4.5 or 5.5 inches shorter than one I don't have to register, especially when I don't have to register an AR pistol that accomplishes the same goal just without a stock and is shorter. But I'm preaching to the choir. :D
Can someone who has had a trust drawn up in Florida recommend a lawyer other then guntrustlawyer.com?
Did you shop around at all? I think a lot of gun stores could have given you some suggestions on what attorneys to use. My friend just got his done for $200.00 here in WI. Got his accepted by the BATF and now has two cans, and a 10.5 LWRC
not all trusts are equal, and some are completely unacceptable "legally" I am told when it comes to NFA.
the $600 is CHEAP insurance for something done right.
would you trust your Ferrari to the corner gas station mechanic?
sure he may do great work on Buick and Fords and if that's good enough for you, then I guess that's all that matters.
madisonsfinest
06-11-11, 07:23
not all trusts are equal, and some are completely unacceptable "legally" I am told when it comes to NFA.
the $600 is CHEAP insurance for something done right.
would you trust your Ferrari to the corner gas station mechanic?
sure he may do great work on Buick and Fords and if that's good enough for you, then I guess that's all that matters.
I think an attorney doing trusts can do a firearms trust quite easily. I don't see the comparison between a Ford/Buick mechanic and a Ferrari mechanic?
Fire_Medic
06-11-11, 12:02
Can someone who has had a trust drawn up in Florida recommend a lawyer other then guntrustlawyer.com?
PM me for info, I highly recommend Bob Howell and he's cheaper than gun trust lawyer.
;)
billybronco
06-11-11, 14:19
...David Goldman as well.
Actually, he, myself AND my brother in law are all co-trustees.
yeah, you can use Quicken; however, guess what happens when you die and your daughter, grandson, friend, etc. inherets the weapon and the trust wasn't designed specifically for NFA items?
they're most likely going to be in possession of said item illegally.
for the here and now, everthing's fine and dandy. when you're dead, it's not.
billybronco
06-11-11, 14:28
finally, you can have them review you're trust and amend it....finally, for whatever reason, the ATF HAS been approving Form 4's and attaching a letter stating that the trust is invalid and that it needs to be amended.
Free NFA Trusts or Traditional Revocable Trust For NFA Firearms: Are they safe?
Many individuals are using Quicken, LegalZoom, or traditional revocable trusts to purchase firearms regulated by the NFA. A traditional trust is not appropriate for the purchase, transfer, or use of NFA firearms because of the unique characteristics of these firearms. A typical revocable trust is created to protect an individual from others who might abuse their powers and detrimentally affect their interest in the property that is owned by the trust. These traditional trusts are problematic for holding assets regulated under the NFA because they do not consider the penalties and legal obligations of those involved with the trust in relation to state and federal laws. As lawyers we have a duty to become knowledgeable and competent in the areas in which we practice or associate with someone who can provide the knowledge necessary to provide the legal service we are offering. A lawyer who provides a traditional trust to a client with the intent of purchasing, holding, transferring, or using NFA firearms opens themselves up to a malpractice claim because the traditional trust instructs individuals to take actions which violate the NFA. While this may not be apparent during the grantor's life, the violations often come to light upon the death or incapacity of the grantor.
During the life of the grantor, while the problems may be minimized, there are still potential problems with a traditional revocable trust when used to hold NFA firearms. Most gun dealers and lawyers do not understand the importance of purchasing the items correctly or protecting others from constructive possession. While the ATF does not appear to be prosecuting individuals for the improper purchase or storage or sharing of these items at this time, there is no intent required in the NFA and a policy change could subject many individuals, their families, and friends to the penalties involved in a NFA or state violation.
I was only charged like 400 for my Trust, Only to find out that the shop I bought my suppressor does them for free with a attorney present in house
So say you have a RLT that you created by Quicken and already have a SBR and a can purchased through that trust, can you get that trust ammended by an attourney so you can have that "peace of mind" and "cheap insurance"? Or would you have to draw up a whole new trust and transfer the items over?
Logicalpath
06-13-11, 00:17
GREAT! One more thing to worry about in my quest for a suppressed SBR...:bad:
I just had my trust done by a lawyer from the upstate of SC. He charged $175 for active military. This includes ANY follow up questions I may have in the future regarding the processes and actions of myself to place items in the trust. He was quick and efficient. I can also point back if there are any questions of the validity and reference said lawyer as the originating source.
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