View Full Version : 550yd Plate Hits with Recce Barrel/Rifle
Never seen someone actually use a 16" barrel out to 550yds (500m) before. Sort of dispels the myth that you need an 18" SPR for shooting further than 300-400yds. My apologies if this has been posted previously.
http://www.youtube.com/superiorbarrels#p/c/9/0sC0SALw-_g
DISCLAIMER: I found this on YouTube. I'm not affiliated with the manufacturer in this video in any way.
Heck with the right load a 16" can shoot as far as the shooter can hit! After 600 yards though velocity gets the better of it! Doping the shots gets real fun! Shooting 80 gr I wish he'd had shown the velocity, he was loading them long as he was loading singles! I'm thinking 2500 ish per time of flight!:D
Heck with the right load a 16" can shoot as far as the shooter can hit!
I don't think this was ever being disputed. It's what can be reliably repeated with a 16" at that distance which matters.
If you have a fair sized gong available at 500M and a decent optic, it's really not that big of a deal. My 14.5" chrome lined with 4x will work pretty well on an 18" gong with IMI M193 or 55 gr reloads at 500M.
A 10" plate is another story, however. That's where the 18" SPR barrel with better ammo and better optic shines. And I would expect a good 16" SS barrel to be very close.
Didn't some (Maybe Doc) say that SF was getting confirmed kills at 800m with mk18s?
We were consistently dinging a full size pepper popper (36x12 +/-) at a lased 528 meters (6 degrees up slope) with my 16" recce with a Burris XTR 1-4X, shooting from the prone using a backpack for a rest. My partner and spotter for that exercise was doing the same with a M&P 15 with an ACOG. 550-600 meters from a 16" is easily doable.
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac347/kmrtnsn/PHXShoot-2.jpg
MarshallDodge
04-27-11, 23:23
That sounded like he was single loading the rounds.
Definitely doable but not and easy shot, especially with any hint of wind.
Eurodriver
04-28-11, 00:15
I laugh at these threads.
20x40" target at 500 yards with a beat up M4, Lake City M855, iron sights in 15mph full value winds...all day long.
Give me a 10x optic, a bipod, match ammo, a decent barrel and a sandbag rear rest? You could shrink that target down to a basketball and it'd still be too easy.
Never seen someone actually use a 16" barrel out to 550yds (500m) before. Sort of dispels the myth that you need an 18" SPR for shooting further than 300-400yds. My apologies if this has been posted previously.
Well the M4 specs lists 500m as max range for point target. Don't know who thinks you need an SPR. o.O
Magic_Salad0892
04-28-11, 03:26
You can go to 800m with a Mk. 18 type. I go to 600m with an 11.1'' barrel and irons. I'm pretty sure a good shooter with a Mk. 18 and ACOG can go to 800m. The SPR thing for distance shooting is a myth. But... they CAN do it more accurately.
Sorry, but this conversation reminded me of what Gunny Highway said in "Heartbreak Ridge"
I can put a round in a flea's ass at 200 meters.
:sarcastic:
I actually posted last year about that. An SF member in A'stan where I was working hit a guy at 600M and 800M with a 14.5" M4 and Elcan scope using Mk 262 MOD 1.
The only people who think that you can't hit at long ranges are internet retards.
Didn't some (Maybe Doc) say that SF was getting confirmed kills at 800m with mk18s?
thats what I don't get about the 3gun world. I use a 16in Mid Length SS410 and most of the time have the fastest time on the longer ranges. At 300 yards at our last 3gun, I beat even the open shooters on that stage.... Came in 6th overall but beat everyones ass with a 16in gun at the longer range.
I don't see an advantage to using a 18 or 20 like the majority of the 3 gunners do. With my setup(BCM 16in SS410, Burris XTR 1-4, MB-556K and Vltor A5) I can keep up with anyone at our local 3guns. We'll see how I do at KY State 3gun in June then our Indiana State 3gun in July.
I can regularly hit a 8in steel with XM193 out of my 12.5 at 400 yards....
Here's a 500 and 600 yard target, 600 in front. I used the white side because the brown blended in with the grass. There was a slight 3:00 wind that day, as you can see the shots drifted left with 1 of 5 not hitting the target at 600 yds.
Used a heavy barreled Rock River with Adcom M855 clone and a 4X optic.
Damn, can't get the link to work. I'll try to get it posted later.
I laugh at these threads.
20x40" target at 500 yards with a beat up M4, Lake City M855, iron sights in 15mph full value winds...all day long.
Gosh, sorry to see you're so lacking in confidence. What is it that made you that insecure about yourself?
You may be able to hit at 500 yards with a 14.5", especially with a 40" target height. But with irons, M855 and 15mph winds you ain't hitting jack "all day long". Sure you may get hits periodically, but to make it sound as though you'll be achieving a nearly 100% hit ratio is nonsense.
Safety, 20x40 with an M4 at 500 yards and winds, even with irons is easily doable. This has been the last stage of the USMC known distance qualification course since forever, at least since I was in ('81-'85). I suspect that one of the big reasons everyone dropped the 20" barrel is that 5.5" difference between the rifle and the M4 just does not matter.
Maybe it was the cocky tone of his post that got me, but also between my personal experience and the host of M855 long range accuracy data I've seen, it just strikes me personally as unlikely he will be achieving hits so easily in 15mph winds. Please note that I did not say it wasn't possible.
Also, wasn't M193 used the drills you mention back then? If M855 is used now at 500yds, I'd be genuinely curious as to what type results are achieved by the better shooters in the group using irons only.
In the Army we shot down at the 500 meter range on Main Post Ft Benning a few times. The M4 with M855 is plenty accurate to hit a man at that range. Now it isn't as accurate as my DMR was but to say you can't hit something at that range is completely false.
I know Marines do it regularly for their rifle qual course.
Smuckatelli
04-28-11, 11:23
My daughter used a 6920 (iron sights) with an A2 stock for her first match. Her best 600 yards line, that was with BH 77gr match rounds.
In the Army we shot down at the 500 meter range on Main Post Ft Benning a few times. The M4 with M855 is plenty accurate to hit a man at that range. Now it isn't as accurate as my DMR was but to say you can't hit something at that range is completely false.
I know Marines do it regularly for their rifle qual course.
Got it. But remember that no one including myself said that it can't be done with M855. Just that to make it seem easy in moderate wind is an exaggeration.
Like many here I suppose, my stock of ammo consists primarily of XM193 and M855. Then I have several boxes each of 5.56 TAP, Mk262 Mod 1 and a few other 75g-77g variations. I shoot and replace accordingly, but the ratio of various ammo stays about the same.
With that, I usually found that when I was shooting 600 yards (which I don't get to do that often these days, but did a lot years ago) the M855 always seemed to be the least accurate at those distances. And the slightest bit of wind seemed to affect them more than the other rounds as well. So for that reason alone the one fellow's comments seemed a bit exaggerated to me.
Also, while I have had a couple Aimpoints over the years, the vast majority of my shooting at those distances was with irons. In fact I've hunted most of my life and very rarely used an optic at all except for deer in the PA mountains or an occasional local woodchuck, so irons are what I'm most comfortable with.
theblackknight
04-28-11, 12:46
Safety, 20x40 with an M4 at 500 yards and winds, even with irons is easily doable. This has been the last stage of the USMC known distance qualification course since forever, at least since I was in ('81-'85). I suspect that one of the big reasons everyone dropped the 20" barrel is that 5.5" difference between the rifle and the M4 just does not matter.
You beat me to it.
We had guys busting golf tees at the 5 w a a2 and irons at matches last month. That's a stock service weapon w green tips,on a baker target,18 inch circle.
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Funny I read this thread today.
I am planning to get out to the local 700yd range tomorrow and planned to bring along my colt 6920 and acog to shoot after getting done with my precision rifle. I'll see if I can get some video of 500+yds.
However I will be most likely shooting 69gr smk as steel core is a no go on the steel targets. Also, I doubt there will be much sound coming back after 500yds or so, at least with my 20" .223 you can't hear a hit after that.
Eurodriver
04-28-11, 13:12
Got it. But remember that no one including myself said that it can't be done with M855. Just that to make it seem easy in moderate wind is an exaggeration.
Like many here I suppose, my stock of ammo consists primarily of XM193 and M855. Then I have several boxes each of 5.56 TAP, Mk262 Mod 1 and a few other 75g-77g variations. I shoot and replace accordingly, but the ratio of various ammo stays about the same.
With that, I usually found that when I was shooting 600 yards (which I don't get to do that often these days, but did a lot years ago) the M855 always seemed to be the least accurate at those distances. And the slightest bit of wind seemed to affect them more than the other rounds as well. So for that reason alone the one fellow's comments seemed a bit exaggerated to me.
Also, while I have had a couple Aimpoints over the years, the vast majority of my shooting at those distances was with irons. In fact I've hunted most of my life and very rarely used an optic at all except for deer in the PA mountains or an occasional local woodchuck, so irons are what I'm most comfortable with.
Maybe it was the cocky tone of his post that got me, but also between my personal experience and the host of M855 long range accuracy data I've seen, it just strikes me personally as unlikely he will be achieving hits so easily in 15mph winds. Please note that I did not say it wasn't possible.
Also, wasn't M193 used the drills you mention back then? If M855 is used now at 500yds, I'd be genuinely curious as to what type results are achieved by the better shooters in the group using irons only.
Cocky? I'd be pretty embarassed to be bragging about achieving something so easily doable.
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3710/p6030448.jpg (Look at the wind flags)
Over nearly 5 years I have achieved a 100% hit ratio at 500 yards, but this only totals around 250 rounds. Maybe I need to up my sample size....:confused:
Head to any Marine Corps Base Known Distance range and observe the 100% hit ratio with an iron sighted M4 using LC M855 from 500 yards. I promise you it won't be hard to find a Marine doing it, there will be more than a few.
Sorry you didn't like my "cocky tone", but the 500 yard line is the easiest. You've got 10 minutes to fire 10 rounds on qualification day, you're in the nice soft grass, in the prone...no one is rushing you, no one's brass is hitting your face. If you can't hit it all day long, you're a garbage shooter.
Smuckatelli
04-28-11, 14:01
It's Thursday....all you Marines should be field daying not surfing the net. :laugh:
Need to add in that before we were issued the A2s, we were doing the 500 yards with A1s using M-193. As Eurodriver pointed out, 10 minutes, 10 rounds.....more than enough time to adjust the windage even on the A1.
Mr. Goodtimes
04-28-11, 14:16
I don't see what the big deal about this is. Guys are making EASY hits at 500m with a MK12. I'm heading out to a 1k yd range on Saturday. I'm interested to see how difficult it will be to make consistent 500m hits with a 16in Noveske and TR24 shooting 75gr Hornady, I'm betting I wont have too much trouble.
^^^you must like taking candy from a baby^^^:)
Smuckatelli
04-28-11, 14:27
I'm heading out to a 1k yd range on Saturday.
Every year the USMC Rifle Team keeps trying to get my daughter to shoot from 1k yd, they use special 80 gr rds that have to be manually loaded.
To date she hasn't been interested in pushing past the 600. Typical teenager:blink:
Mr. Goodtimes
04-28-11, 14:29
^^^you must like taking candy from a baby^^^:)
You saying with that setup it should be pretty easy? :D
Every year the USMC Rifle Team keeps trying to get my daughter to shoot from 1k yd, they use special 80 gr rds that have to be manually loaded.
To date she hasn't been interested in pushing past the 600. Typical teenager:blink:
I wasn't even planning on trying it at 1k lol. I plan to push it to 600 to see what how easy (or hard) it is to make accurate (torso sized) hits with a Recce type rifle.
Over nearly 5 years I have achieved a 100% hit ratio at 500 yards, but this only totals around 250 rounds... If you can't hit it all day long, you're a garbage shooter.
So anyone who hasn't accomplished what you claim to have done above is a garbage shooter? And you wondered why I considered you cocky?
This thread was started discussing hitting a plate at 550, not a 20x40 target at 500. You jumped on the OP for even posting the thread, which wasn't really necessary. And while the plate hits at 550yds with an 80gr may not be that spectacular, I'll agree with you that hitting a 20x40 target is less so even with irons. Still it does require both practice and a degree of talent with irons, surely you would agree.
But calling anyone who may not shoot 100% at 500 yards with irons "garbage" is in my humble opinion an attempt at inflating your own ego. I'm not looking to get into a pissing contest with you over the issue, just how I read it.
Smuckatelli
04-28-11, 14:35
I wasn't even planning on trying it at 1k lol. I plan to push it to 600 to see what how easy (or hard) it is to make accurate (torso sized) hits with a Recce type rifle.
You're gunna be surprised at first and then get bored very quickly at the 600....:laugh:
My Recce and any other properly built one should only start to get warmed up at 500yds....once you get it dialed in, it's one Bang...........Ding, after another Bang.....................Ding:cool:
Presently I cannot even find a range long enough to enjoy my Recce properly:(
http://i54.tinypic.com/34quvc9.jpg
Smuckatelli
04-28-11, 15:17
Presently I cannot even find a range long enough to enjoy my Recce properly:(
Come to Quantico......
http://www.quanticoshootingclub.com/Ranges-satellite-view.php
RogerinTPA
04-28-11, 17:21
If I was a "garbage" shooter, I'd really take offense...:eek: Seriously though, I've competed at 500M with both stock and match grade M16s. With good or additional training, depending on one's skill level, shooting and making hits at that range will be pretty routine.
Mr. Goodtimes
04-28-11, 17:23
You're gunna be surprised at first and then get bored very quickly at the 600....:laugh:
My Recce and any other properly built one should only start to get warmed up at 500yds....once you get it dialed in, it's one Bang...........Ding, after another Bang.....................Ding:cool:
Presently I cannot even find a range long enough to enjoy my Recce properly:(
Sweet :D
warlord260
04-28-11, 17:44
Shit i feel old, i cant even see that goddamned far.
Smuckatelli
04-28-11, 18:22
With good or additional training, depending on one's skill level, shooting and making hits at that range will be pretty routine.
That's a good point but I would say it really doesn't take a lot of good or additional training. Recruits manage it pretty well with the limited type of 'group' training that they get. Same goes for the juniors participating in High Power Match. They end up getting thier first taste of real wind when they go to Perry. It really breaks down to time and logisitics. If you have people marking the target for you, if you have a 500 yard or more range.......no real major problems.
I think many of the shooters here spend more time on reactive type shooting once they are comfortable with thier zero vice spending a relaxed day at extended ranges.
There were plenty of times that I would be just too lazy, too comfortable, and wait for the wind to die down on most USMC ranges. 10 minutes, 10 rounds.....man sized target, not bullseye, last string of fire, if the wind conditions were favorable, I would fire as soon as the target came back up in order to get off the firing line and smoke & joke with the guys not shooting.
For the competitors, just hitting black inside the 9 or 10 ring isn't enough because they are also scored on the number of X rings they shoot. This is were the advanced shooting comes in for people like Trident and some others here. Windage, variations in temperature, ammo, lighting, mental attitude....numerous other things that we usually don't worry about come into play. My range qual data books looked like everyone else's. My M-40 data books looked like I was writing to 'Dear Abby':blink:
Smuckatelli
04-28-11, 18:26
Shit i feel old, i cant even see that goddamned far.
I'm worse.......I have too look over my glasses to shoot the pistol....I can't focus on the front sight with my glasses on......I attribute these problems to that nasty smelling stuff we were exposed to every time we drove through the Squirrel Hill tunnel when going to town back in the 60s & 70s....:big_boss:
Back in the day we were doing it with M193 thrown down a 1/12 twist A1's barrel with the old style irons. My eyes are a lot older now and I prefer an optic.
Eurodriver
04-28-11, 22:22
My Recce and any other properly built one should only start to get warmed up at 500yds....once you get it dialed in, it's one Bang...........Ding, after another Bang.....................Ding:cool:
Presently I cannot even find a range long enough to enjoy my Recce properly:(
http://i54.tinypic.com/34quvc9.jpg
Heres what we will do. I will give you my 14.5" Midlength upper with a T1, and you will give me yours. That way you can have more of a challenge at 500+ K? :laugh:
So anyone who hasn't accomplished what you claim to have done above is a garbage shooter? And you wondered why I considered you cocky?
This thread was started discussing hitting a plate at 550, not a 20x40 target at 500. You jumped on the OP for even posting the thread, which wasn't really necessary. And while the plate hits at 550yds with an 80gr may not be that spectacular, I'll agree with you that hitting a 20x40 target is less so even with irons. Still it does require both practice and a degree of talent with irons, surely you would agree.
But calling anyone who may not shoot 100% at 500 yards with irons "garbage" is in my humble opinion an attempt at inflating your own ego. I'm not looking to get into a pissing contest with you over the issue, just how I read it.
I agree I could have phrased it differently, but even as Shmuckatelli pointed out, 18 year old kids who have never touched a weapon before, getting "group" training with only 5 days of mixed classroom/hands on instruction manage it without issue. Why are you making this out to be more difficult than it really is? Go on any Marine Corps' rifle range 500 yard line and you will hear phrases like "The 500 is where you make your money, its cake out here"
They are doing something different in the Corps, but I can't figure it out. Maybe stressing fundamentals over dropping big bucks on optics, barrels, and handloads is it. Because I swear by the end of the day on a civilian 500 yard line I am lucky if even half have completed actually zeroing their weapon, let alone shooting for consistency.
Wormydog1724
04-28-11, 22:38
I obviously need more trigger time. Hitting at 300 during 3 gun matches has proved to be my crutch. I can do it easily when at my home range when I'm not racing the clock and the adrenaline isn't flowing. I've made some hits at 400, never tried 500 as I can't back up far enough on my range.
http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp247/wormydog1724/e7546492.jpg
Its a 16" stainless steel 1:7 twist White Oak Armament barrel. I am shooting PMC 55 grain FMJ's or Federal 55 grain FMJ's. Not the best ammo and that could be part of the problem. I am usually prone with nor type of rest besides my arms. I am not LE nor MIL and have never had any sort of training. That could be part of the problem also.
Cincinnatus
04-29-11, 01:03
Heres what we will do. I will give you my 14.5" Midlength upper with a T1, and you will give me yours. That way you can have more of a challenge at 500+ K? :laugh:
.
Too late, he already has a 10.5 he makes consistent hits with out past 300 yards. :D
They are doing something different in the Corps, but I can't figure it out. Maybe stressing fundamentals over dropping big bucks on optics, barrels, and handloads is it. Because I swear by the end of the day on a civilian 500 yard line I am lucky if even half have completed actually zeroing their weapon, let alone shooting for consistency.
People's own ego is usually the reason they can't shoot for shit. You can get a lot of milage out of dime drills (I have no idea what the Marines use). People who have never touched firearms before can usually shoot better than people with bad habits.
Eurodriver
04-29-11, 01:30
People's own ego is usually the reason they can't shoot for shit. You can get a lot of milage out of dime drills (I have no idea what the Marines use). People who have never touched firearms before can usually shoot better than people with bad habits.
Dime drills? Wow! You guys really do have money. We use penny drills. :p
Cocky? I'd be pretty embarassed to be bragging about achieving something so easily doable.
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3710/p6030448.jpg (Look at the wind flags)
Over nearly 5 years I have achieved a 100% hit ratio at 500 yards, but this only totals around 250 rounds. Maybe I need to up my sample size....:confused:
Head to any Marine Corps Base Known Distance range and observe the 100% hit ratio with an iron sighted M4 using LC M855 from 500 yards. I promise you it won't be hard to find a Marine doing it, there will be more than a few.
Sorry you didn't like my "cocky tone", but the 500 yard line is the easiest. You've got 10 minutes to fire 10 rounds on qualification day, you're in the nice soft grass, in the prone...no one is rushing you, no one's brass is hitting your face. If you can't hit it all day long, you're a garbage shooter.
Agreed. Back in the day when my eyes were better I was assured of 10 hits at the 500, hell it's a big target.
It's a bitch when the flags at the 300 yard line show wind in a different direction than the 200 or the butts.
Gents the fact of the matter is the Marine Corps has been teaching this for more than a century (or two for that matter) and it works. Like Euro said, it's easy on the nice grass, no one shooting at you and you're well rested/feed etc.
1371USMCFL
04-29-11, 07:40
y'all get nice grass? that's some bullshit. On Oki your shooting off astroturf that has been used so much, the "turf" is gone where one would normally setup. I get to do rifle qual next week, woopie. "...you may fire when your DOOOOOOOOOOGGGG target appears...taaaarrrrrget"
at 500, it's all basics. follow the basics and you'll hit black, it really is that simple. natural point of aim, slow squeeze, breathing, follow through.
. Same goes for the juniors participating in High Power Match. They end up getting thier first taste of real wind when they go to Perry..
Oh good old camp perry and its wonderful 1000yd Vialle(spelling, I know) and I forget the 600yd range name..... I hated shooting on the 1000 at the CMP matches.... Sooooo hot. At least at the 600yd range u didnt have a mile hike to the pits and u had shade at the 600yd line.
600yds with Irons is NOTHING. If u think u need an optic to shoot that far, ur either blind or u rly need way more range time. Shooting all in the 10 Ring at 600 was easy... Its that pesky X ring i had trouble with in middle school...... High school it was easier. Optics just make shooting that far easier.
caelumatra
04-29-11, 09:29
I have no idea what the Marines use
This was 7 years ago but I'm sure it hasn't changed
During boot camp, we train on these white 50 gallon barrels for hours and hours and hours and hours. The platoon gets in a circle, 25yd radius prob, maybe less. All weapons condition 4 and the recruits have never had rounds in hand on the island. And on the barrel there are miniature silhouettes of the targets we will shoot on at the range. You get in one of the 4 positions and sight in on the appropriate target and pull the trigger, rack, pull the trigger. Hundreds of times per position per day. In a loop sling with blood vessels all apop lol. And the DI's take the barrels everywhere the platoon goes during grass week so any time theres a free moment, get in the circle sight in on the barrel
And if you don't do it right, too much pull, top of the breath shot and what not "hey you ****face, go get ****ed up in that hole over there and come back and do it right"
Maybe its the extreme stress of boot camp and having to do this precise action that makes it work....shrug
That is of course boot camp only but I suppose it is enough to solidify decent muscle memory.
Eurodriver
04-29-11, 11:27
And if you don't do it right, too much pull, top of the breath shot and what not "hey you ****face, go get ****ed up in that hole over there and come back and do it right"
Maybe its the extreme stress of boot camp and having to do this precise action that makes it work....shrug
That is of course boot camp only but I suppose it is enough to solidify decent muscle memory.
Marines in the fleet use this technique too though, and dry firing is preached by many precision shooters as a good tool to get used to a slow steady squeeze.
I still get a chuckle when I read a thread asking "is dry firing safe" :laugh: I had an M16A2 from the 1980's in boot camp (this was in the mid 2000's) I dry fired it probably 1000 times. When you realize the amount of recruits that have used that rifle and all have dry fired it, plus having the DIs throw them down the highway like toys...the M16 platform is a reliable *****.
And on the barrel there are miniature silhouettes of the targets we will shoot on at the range.
I stuck a push pin into the wall about a foot off the ground in my house. I colored the head of it black and would dry fire from the prone on it for practice.
I bet he was burning the crap out of that ruck!
We were consistently dinging a full size pepper popper (36x12 +/-) at a lased 528 meters (6 degrees up slope) with my 16" recce with a Burris XTR 1-4X, shooting from the prone using a backpack for a rest. My partner and spotter for that exercise was doing the same with a M&P 15 with an ACOG. 550-600 meters from a 16" is easily doable.
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac347/kmrtnsn/PHXShoot-2.jpg
Magic_Salad0892
04-29-11, 14:08
I actually posted last year about that. An SF member in A'stan where I was working hit a guy at 600M and 800M with a 14.5" M4 and Elcan scope using Mk 262 MOD 1.
The only people who think that you can't hit at long ranges are internet retards.
I remember that post. You also mentioned a guy you knew making hits on an oil drum or something at 800m with a Mk. 18 and an Elcan.
Out of curiousity have you ever tried to use a short barrel to hit targets at long(er) ranges?
I personally know someone who was making hits at 800M with a 10.5 inch upper and Spectre Elcan.
I am routinely able to hit a 10"x14" steel plate at 300-400 yds. with my 11.5" SBR and ACOG using standard 55gr. ammo.
A man sized torso target is just as easy.
Match ammo enhances the accuracy.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=876601#post876601
That thread, and a few others are the ones that inspired me to try to get good at doing 6/800m with an 11.1''.
Fire_Medic
04-29-11, 19:24
I love reading about all this stuff, I just wish I had a range where I could shoot past 100 yards within a reasonable driving distance, I'd go out there once a week for sure.
:cray:
I thank God for all our men in uniform who achieve such profiency at arms that they can hit targets, with iron sights, at 500 yards. It is my tax dollars at work.
Remember what George Orwell once said:
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
Amen, and amen
Do your duty. Be men of honor. Honor our nation. Do not disgrace our flag, or yourselves, or your families.
And may our good and gracious God protect you.
I bet he was burning the crap out of that ruck!
That is me and my ruck. Most of the soot marking brushed right off. and was from a FN-FAL and an FN SCAR-17. The ruck is a Camelbak/Mystery Ranch Tri-Zip with a set of Blackhawk rifle guides on one side and a SAW pouch on the other, the SAW pouch is what got all sooted up. In retrospect, the Condor Outdoor guides, with their velcro mounting is much better kit at half the price than the Blackhawk set I bought.
This was 7 years ago but I'm sure it hasn't changed
During boot camp, we train on these white 50 gallon barrels for hours and hours and hours and hours. The platoon gets in a circle, 25yd radius prob, maybe less. All weapons condition 4 and the recruits have never had rounds in hand on the island. And on the barrel there are miniature silhouettes of the targets we will shoot on at the range. You get in one of the 4 positions and sight in on the appropriate target and pull the trigger, rack, pull the trigger. Hundreds of times per position per day. In a loop sling with blood vessels all apop lol. And the DI's take the barrels everywhere the platoon goes during grass week so any time theres a free moment, get in the circle sight in on the barrel
And if you don't do it right, too much pull, top of the breath shot and what not "hey you ****face, go get ****ed up in that hole over there and come back and do it right"
Maybe its the extreme stress of boot camp and having to do this precise action that makes it work....shrug
That is of course boot camp only but I suppose it is enough to solidify decent muscle memory.
I went to boot camp over 30 years ago (shit I'm getting up there) and I did the same thing. I'll place a bet they did the same thing (or nearly) before WWI. Marines were known for killing Germans who stuck their heads above the trench line at "safe distances".
I got 1 week of classes and dry fire drills followed by 1 week of live fire when we took turns in the butts and on the line. Thursday was pre-qual day and qualification was Friday. We were encouraged to dry fire in the barracks in the little bit of free time we had in the evening.
We were taught the basics.
It was the only time the drill instructors didn't really ride our asses (relatively speaking of course).
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