View Full Version : Heckler & Koch MR556-A1 Finally Arrives- Serial No.500 Pics
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 09:50
What a surprise! Check out what showed up at the shop yesterday afternoon: serial# 500 of the new HK MR556-A1-- "Mister Five-Five-Six" himself. It's an Easter season miracle. Alleluia!
After breaking it down and giving it a thorough inspection, the beauty of this new Heckler & Koch masterpiece is really in the subtle details:
- detent springs built into the receiver's take-down pins
- beveled magazine well
- ambidextrous safety selectors that can be engaged at all times and don't - German proof stamps everywhere you look
- awesome HK-logo'd buffer, along with its spring and robust buffer locking pin
- polymer dust cover was odd, but I'm sure HK had a good reason for designing it that way
- thick and heavy contoured 16-inch, 1:7 twist barrel, hammer-forged, and is NOT chrome-lined. Also, the muzzle end has been swaged to achieve a slightly smaller diameter
- bolt is spring loaded into the carrier group and stays in the extended position-- making assembly easier than a conventional BCG
- captive firing pin retaining pin, so you won't have to worry about losing it
Here are the pics. Enjoy!
-- Evan
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_11.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_5.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_22.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_27.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_33.jpg
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 09:59
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_1.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_2.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_3.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_4.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_6.jpg
Leonidas24
04-28-11, 10:01
Please tell me that's grease seeping out from between the upper and barrel extension.
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 10:02
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_7.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_8.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_9.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_10.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_12.jpg
So, is HK upper compatible with regular lower receiver?
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 10:05
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_13.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_14.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_15.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_16.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_17.jpg
Mr. Goodtimes
04-28-11, 10:06
why did HK not chrome line the barrel?
What a surprise. No as they say around here: "Go shoot it!"
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 10:08
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_18.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_19.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_20.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_21.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_23.jpg
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 10:10
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_24.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_25.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_26.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_28.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_29.jpg
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 10:11
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_30.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_31.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_32.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_34.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_35.jpg
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 10:13
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_36.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_37.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_38.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_39.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_40.jpg
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 10:17
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_41.jpg
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_42.jpg
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 10:21
why did HK not chrome line the barrel?
HK believes the best accuracy is achieved via an unlined bore. In addition, the muzzle end has been swaged to achieve a slightly smaller diameter-- which HK says improves velocity and accuracy.
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 10:22
So, is HK upper compatible with regular lower receiver?
Yes sir.
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 10:22
Please tell me that's grease seeping out from between the upper and barrel extension.
Sorry, I couldn't help it. ;)
Austin_101
04-28-11, 10:39
Very nice:dirol:
Great Pics! I've never heard of this gun. Is it similar to the HK416?
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 10:40
Weight? Just curious...
Quite heavy compared to others in the same class-- 9.2lbs unloaded with mag and sights installed.
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 10:41
Great Pics! I've never heard of this gun. Is it similar to the HK416?
This is the long awaited civilian version of the HK416.
Holy Crapman.. they even put a heavier barrel on it than the 416
What other parts are polymer? Looks like the CH latch and selector switches might be.
Holy Crapman.. they even put a heavier barrel on it than the 416
It is indeed a meaty barrel. I kinda like that though....
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 10:56
Holy Crapman.. they even put a heavier barrel on it than the 416
I believe it's from an M1919.
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 10:56
What other parts are polymer? Looks like the CH latch and selector switches might be.
CH latch is polymer. Selector switches are not. I think that's it.
ActiveShooter
04-28-11, 11:00
Very nice! Curious to see a range report on one of these.
- polymer dust cover was odd, but I'm sure HK had a good reason for designing it that way
IIRC,
HK said that would offer better seal in the closed position
Holy Crapman.. they even put a heavier barrel on it than the 416
Right. So the 416 now comes standard with the "Navy" barrel (LW) and the commercial gun (which will never be shot FA) has an HBAR plus. :rolleyes:
C4
No sling loops on the gas block?
Right. So the 416 now comes standard with the "Navy" barrel (LW) and the commercial gun (which will never be shot FA) has an HBAR plus. :rolleyes:
C4
It's the 416's plus size sister...
:D
OnPointFirearms
04-28-11, 11:30
It's the 416's plus size sister...
:D
MR556-A1 shops at Lane Bryant.
Serpico1985
04-28-11, 11:42
Anyone else notice the angle of the grip is closer to a stark grip than any of the others?
militarymoron
04-28-11, 12:15
nice pics - thanks for posting them.
CH latch is polymer. Selector switches are not. I think that's it.
Is the magazine catch polymer too? It kinda looks like it is.
Looks good, though heavy as hell with that barrel. Does anyone know how hard it is to remove the barrel to get reprofiled and shortened?
MR556-A1 shops at Lane Bryant.
:sarcastic:
Thanks for making me spew coffee on my keyboard, now my coworkers think I'm losing it. In all seriousness, thanks for posting the pics.
Thanks for the detailed pictures!
Do we know if the BBL has any sort of lining or treatment if not CL - or would this be considered a stainless match type setup?
What is the tab protruding from the barrel extension supposed to do?
Nice photos. Can't wait for a range report. Too bad HK felt compelled to put the Ruger-like warning on the front of the magwell.
Is that barrel big around enough?:rolleyes:
I want to get my hands on just a complete lower. Assuming that of course it works with any regular upper. lol
What is the tab protruding from the barrel extension supposed to do?
to avoid the use of FA HK416 carrier :rolleyes:
Mr. Goodtimes
04-28-11, 14:22
I'd be kind of interested in this if it came with a chrome lined hammer forged light weight or at least standard profile barrel but they just did everything wrong with this thin IMO.
Heavy barrel on a non full auto gun and no chrome lining? I guess if they were looking to build a "sporting" rifle they hit the nail on the head but this thing is lacking some of the more basic features that are the norm for a serious defensive rifle.
Now I'm in a dillema.... hold off my les Baer 1911 for an HK? hhmmmmmm
This is dumb:
http://ferrarishields.com/hk1.jpg
Since they used icons for SAFE and FIRE, this would have been preferable:
http://ferrarishields.com/hk2.jpg
Other than that, nice gun!
~Dan
Cylinder Head
04-28-11, 15:21
I'd be kind of interested in this if it came with a chrome lined hammer forged light weight or at least standard profile barrel but they just did everything wrong with this thin IMO.
Heavy barrel on a non full auto gun and no chrome lining? I guess if they were looking to build a "sporting" rifle they hit the nail on the head but this thing is lacking some of the more basic features that are the norm for a serious defensive rifle.
From what I understand it was designed that way specifically to be a "sporting rifle" due to Germany's gun laws. The barrel profile was a direct result.
The conundrum is IIRC these things are being built here in the US.
Thanks for the detailed pics of the MR556 very nice.
$3000 for a non chrome lined, heavy as shit rifle with polymer parts on it. ROFL. Their motto is "No Compromise" yet it sounds like they did quite a bit on this rifle. Such a shame since i'm somewhat of an HK fanboi.
Man, that's heavy (i'm being a little bitch). Looks sweet though, thanks for the pics.
Is it really 3K?????
Hunter Rose
04-28-11, 16:05
Is it really 3K?????
No. They are just slowly coming out, so there is still some mark up. Most are going for $2600-$2800 right now. As soon as these are out in quantity, the price will be around $2400. Most of the group buy pre-orders were right at this price and some dealers have already sold them for this. CDNN quoted me $2370-something for when they get them in stock. Dealer price is $2100 or so.
These really are not overly expensive for a civvie HK416. They are roughly in line price wise with a SCAR , KAC SR15, or complete Noveske.
Hunter Rose
04-28-11, 16:40
I just got an MR556; so these are just some inital impressions.
It's definitely heavier than a DI AR, but it's hardly unbearable. I had a milled Bulgarian AK for years, and to me it feels extremely similar in weight, so I don't see any real problem in handling it. I never recall once bitching about the unbearable weight of the AK I think the weight issue gets blown out of proportion, especially for a civilian market target audience. If you're an LEO/SWAT type who may be routinely required to carry your rifle around for hours on end, the extra weight is probably something to seriously consider. However, for the rest of the group who will use it for range shooting, training classes, and self defense , I don't think the extra pound is that big a deal.
Barrel is not chrome lined. I think the negative reaction to this is overblown too. HK uses some of if not the best barrel steel in the world, so I also think this is overblown. People have gotten 30-40K rounds out of HK33/93 barrels and those were unlined as well. May need to run an oily patch through the bore once in a while though. I don't think too many people will be shooting out these barrels quickly.
The trigger is nice, but everything I have had prior have been mil-spec single stage triggers.
Overall, it's a very nice rifle and viable as a self defense/training/target carbine IMO. It's feature set is not for eveyone, though, DI ARs probably provide 99% of the MR556's performance for the average user, so if price is an issue there are probably better choices.
But hell, I've been waiting for a civvie HK416 for years, so I couldn't resist.
Magic_Salad0892
04-28-11, 16:41
9.3 lbs. for an unloaded rifle with iron sights? :blink:
I'm reeeeaaally not digging this model.
Non chrome lined barrel, or nitrate treatment.
M60 barrel profile.
No ambidextrous controls.
Non standard rail height.
Lame ass bolt tab to prevent civilians from using a carrier they couldn't utilize without an $8500 trigger group (or $12,000 lower) anyway.
Did I mention that we don't even have a real way to get a full auto 416 carrier?
No redesigned bolt, extractor, monolithic upper, or anything else that matters.
Unless they lose the retarded profile, treat the barrel, shorten the barrel, and give ambidextrous features, there is NO reason to buy this gun.
I'd rather have a true-to-spec G3.
Thank you for the detailed pics. I am looking forward to a range report to hear how it shoots.
Moose-Knuckle
04-28-11, 16:58
Glad to see them finally in the hands of us lowly serfs. As others have stated I'm not digg'n that barrel. If it had a happy switch I could see their reasoning but for a civie semi. . .:confused:
pointblank4445
04-28-11, 16:59
I just got an MR556; so these are just some inital impressions.
It's definitely heavier than a DI AR, but it's hardly unbearable. I had a milled Bulgarian AK for years, and to me it feels extremely similar in weight, so I don't see any real problem in handling it. I never recall once bitching about the unbearable weight of the AK I think the weight issue gets blown out of proportion, especially for a civilian market target audience. If you're an LEO/SWAT type who may be routinely required to carry your rifle around for hours on end, the extra weight is probably something to seriously consider. However, for the rest of the group who will use it for range shooting, training classes, and self defense , I don't think the extra pound is that big a deal.
Wow.....deja vu. Good to see ya, HR
Thanks, for sharing. Great pics.
I got to check out my first MR556 in a class a few weeks ago. As expected it is a beautifully built carbine. HK’s attention to detail and craftsmanship are second to none. Holding one it oozes quality.
It did not feel overly heavy to me either. Nothing I would notice anyway.
Stunning carbine to say the least.
Hunter Rose
04-28-11, 21:52
Wow.....deja vu. Good to see ya, HR
Pointblank, yep, I guess we have had this discussion before.
The Dumb Gun Collector
04-28-11, 22:05
Very sexy. I will probably get one as soon as they start offering one with the standard or lighter profile. I am glad they came out with the target model first because I am broke!
Mr. Biggles
04-29-11, 06:10
Nice rifle, and great pictures!
MOUNT-N-SLOT
04-29-11, 08:25
Outstanding photography, thanks for taking the time to post a great eval on the weapon.
This thing need to get rebuilt with a complete HK416 upper to be worth a shit.
I'm still trying to figure out the parts count. This is what I've done so far. Anyone have any corrections?
Parts in order to use a complete 416 upper.
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings
or stampings Foreign
(2) Barrels Foreign
(3) Barrel extensions Foreign
(4) Mounting blocks (trunnions) Not Present
(5) Muzzle attachments Domestic
(6) Bolts Foreign
(7) Bolt carriers Foreign
(8) Operating rods Foreign
(9) Gas pistons Foreign
(10) Trigger housings Not Present
(11) Triggers Domestic
(12) Hammers Domestic
(13) Sears Not Present
(14) Disconnectors Domestic
(15) Buttstocks Foreign
(16) Pistol grips Foreign
(17) Forearms, handguards Foreign
(18) Magazine bodies Foreign
(19) Followers Foreign
(20) Floorplates Foreign
I did the list and I count 13 foreign parts, so we need to get down to 9. We have to be under 10.
You would need to use only American made magazines and which would get you down to 10 and install an American made grip which would get you down to 9. This is after installing an American flash hider, hammer, disconnector, and trigger.
This leaves you with a factory HK foreign barrel, bolt carrier group, and all factory moving parts to maintain factory German originality of the more critical components.
You would not be able to use the factory HK steel magazine supplied with the gun.
OnPointFirearms
04-29-11, 10:06
Glad you guys enjoyed the pics. I enjoyed taking them and fooling around with the MR556. We're planning a range trip with this rifle-- either this weekend or next-- along with a SCAR heavy a client recently bought. Should be nice having two of the most sought after rifles on the market in one video. Have a good weekend, everyone. -- Evan
MarshallDodge
04-29-11, 10:32
The pictures look great, thanks for posting.
If you want a Colt M4 (probably made in Canada) with a mediocre fit and finish but with a reputation of something that will run then spend the cash and get one but if you want the BMW then the HK looks like a nice choice.
I personally would like a DI version without the quad rails and a lighter weight barrel but I won't hold that against this gun because there is a good chance that it will do the job it was built for.
Do the HK barrels have polygonal rifling like the pistols, or just the standard "land and groove" rifling?
Hunter Rose
04-29-11, 13:49
Do the HK barrels have polygonal rifling like the pistols, or just the standard "land and groove" rifling?
Lands and grooves.
This thing need to get rebuilt with a complete HK416 upper to be worth a shit.
Yes.
Or, skip the HK lower altogether.
Just buy a Noveske flared forged lower, finish it out with the parts of your choosing and drop a real 14.5" HK416 upper with a pinned muzzle device on top. Now you've got a much nicer lower, PMAG compatible, lighter overall rifle, chrome lined and at least you'd have something worth a damn.
Probably could do it for close to the same money, too.
Man, that's heavy (i'm being a little bitch). Looks sweet though, thanks for the pics.
Is it really 3K?????
Yes it is 3k ($2995)......for MSRP. I hate it when people say "NO, it's not such and such price, because that's msrp and street price will be lower" Well yeah, it MIGHT be lower. But everyone's dealers street price will be different. So there's no point in giving a price that it MIGHT be. Give the freaken msrp and let people guesstimate for themselves what their dealer will charge for them.
Also, who cares if HK uses some of the best barrel steels? I'm sure all of the quality AR manufacturers use "some of the best barrel steels". HK could have spent an extra 50 bucks per barrel or whatever and chrome lined it for that asking price.
variablebinary
04-29-11, 18:24
I've shot the HK416 and MR556. They are nice guns
Some things about the MR556
- They are exquisitely finished and built. Everything is perfectly finished and tight. You'd swear it was carved out of solid rock. Nothing squeaks, shakes, rattles or anything. Compare it to a 6920 and it's obvious which one is German.
- It's heavy. It may not feel heavy if you shoulder it for 30 seconds at the local gun shop with nothing on it, but the one I shot had a full mag and Eotech 553 and it wears on faster than a equally configured 6920
- There is no muzzle rise at all, but you do get a harder "thump" against the shoulder when shooting.
- Accuracy seemed okay. No better or worse than my Colt. I tend to think too much emphasis is put on this to begin with. ("My gun shoots .000001 MOA with match ammo, from a bench with perfect wind")
- If I were buying a piston AR15, it's the only one I would bother with at this stage. I don't care how much cheaper brand X is compared MR556, which was purchased for $2599
- The stock is very comfy, but feels slightly more hollow and not quite as tight as a SOPMOD
Heartbreaker
04-29-11, 21:36
I'd like to try out a polymer ejection port door (other than the Mako "ejection port door designed by Israeli commandos") and a polymer charging handle latch, not going to pay the massive tax for the HK name though. Hopefully someone will rip them off in the near future.
If it was this, I would own it. Unfortunately they put a barrel on there with the diameter of a sound suppressor.
Why the pmag hate from zee germans?
http://cdn1.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/tmp_m27_iar-tfb.jpg
The sad thing is that their products are probably designed by Israeli commandos.
I'd like to try out a polymer ejection port door (other than the Mako "ejection port door designed by Israeli commandos")
warlord260
04-30-11, 10:58
I've shot the HK416 and MR556. They are nice guns
Some things about the MR556
- They are exquisitely finished and built. Everything is perfectly finished and tight. You'd swear it was carved out of solid rock. Nothing squeaks, shakes, rattles or anything. Compare it to a 6920 and it's obvious which one is German.
- It's heavy. It may not feel heavy if you shoulder it for 30 seconds at the local gun shop with nothing on it, but the one I shot had a full mag and Eotech 553 and it wears on faster than a equally configured 6920
- There is no muzzle rise at all, but you do get a harder "thump" against the shoulder when shooting.
- Accuracy seemed okay. No better or worse than my Colt. I tend to think too much emphasis is put on this to begin with. ("My gun shoots .000001 MOA with match ammo, from a bench with perfect wind")
- If I were buying a piston AR15, it's the only one I would bother with at this stage. I don't care how much cheaper brand X is compared MR556, which was purchased for $2599
- The stock is very comfy, but feels slightly more hollow and not quite as tight as a SOPMOD
Do you know what that means .000001 MOA? Not being a dick, but how is that possible?
Why the pmag hate from zee germans?
weird...I've always read about PMAG not working on HK416 but my PMAGs fit & worked fine on a MR223 when cycled manually at the gunstore
I also posted a pic on another thread....in the other assault rifles section IIRC
ETA:
btw, PMAGs are not STANAG mags, we all know they are even better but still out-of-spec...they also dont work on the SCAR so in this case HK is not to blame
Do you know what that means .000001 MOA? Not being a dick, but how is that possible?
I read it as sarcasm.
The_War_Wagon
04-30-11, 12:10
It's the 416's plus size sister...
:D
Plus size sisters need lovin' too. http://www.getsmileyface.com/sm/evil/204.gif
leibermuster
04-30-11, 16:00
weird...I've always read about PMAG not working on HK416 but my PMAGs fit & worked fine on a MR223 when cycled manually at the gunstore
I also posted a pic on another thread....in the other assault rifles section IIRC
ETA:
btw, PMAGs are not STANAG mags, we all know they are even better but still out-of-spec...they also dont work on the SCAR so in this case HK is not to blame
It depends on the PMAG, i have noticed quit a few variants now, but just buy EMAGS instead. anyways..
theblackknight
04-30-11, 16:09
oh no. The Gucci gear pencil barrel crowd is PISSED.
ForTehNguyen
04-30-11, 16:54
is it possible they went with a thicker barrel because of the harmonics of all the piston hardware? I can see this barrel profile on a IAR but not on a semi
id be pissed if i had to carry around another 2lbs for no extra benefit
warlord260
04-30-11, 17:15
I read it as sarcasm.
No not at all, In my former life i was a tool + die maker. I had to bore holes to .00005. It had to be in a climate controled room, and if the heat from your hand touched the part it would be out of spec. So .000001 would be so far out there as to be unmeasureable.
Thats all!
Gotta admit, that is a sweet rifle. If I had the cash I would be tempted to get one.
variablebinary
05-01-11, 07:30
Can anyone confirm if the barrel profile is the same as the barrel used on the HK416N (Norwegian).
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=1140&pictureid=13924
Not a chance.
Thicker at the front and at the back.
Armaheavy... beefcake!
http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/hk_mr556-a1_26.jpg
- They are exquisitely finished and built. Everything is perfectly finished and tight. You'd swear it was carved out of solid rock. Nothing squeaks, shakes, rattles or anything. Compare it to a 6920 and it's obvious which one is German.
- It's heavy. It may not feel heavy if you shoulder it for 30 seconds at the local gun shop with nothing on it, but the one I shot had a full mag and Eotech 553 and it wears on faster than a equally configured 6920
- There is no muzzle rise at all, but you do get a harder "thump" against the shoulder when shooting.
This has been my experience with the HK416 too. First thing I thought when I picked it up was "wow this is heavier than it looks.
And I agree with everyone else that the "read manual" on the lower is retarded.
That thing looks heavier than my MWS! Who wants a 16" 9.5lb(unloaded)5.56 semi auto carbine?
Gun is a complete joke in it's current form. I wouldn't buy it regardless of price.
leibermuster
05-01-11, 12:57
Chrome lining the barrel is pointless and stupid, the process of Hammer forging HK barrels or say COLT CANADA barrels is retarded and outdated. It is impossible to match the groves/lands of the barrel when doing the chrome process. It is not needed on that type of high end steal. By Chrome lining that Barrel you are just hurting the accuracy and adding an unnecessary layer to the barrel.
This thread is filled with FAIL...
Chrome lining the barrel is pointless and stupid, the process of Hammer forging HK barrels or say COLT CANADA barrels is retarded and outdated. It is impossible to match the groves/lands of the barrel when doing the chrome process. It is not needed on that type of high end steal. By Chrome lining that Barrel you are just hurting the accuracy and adding an unnecessary layer to the barrel.
This thread is filled with FAIL...
the HK 416 comes with a chrome lined barrel
leibermuster
05-01-11, 13:36
Yes that is because the US military request so, that doesn't mean it is necessary or needed. Take a lot of General's in many Armies across the world to a gun range, you will be surprised how little they actual know about firearms, and I'm no expert either...
Yes that is because the US military request so, that doesn't mean it is necessary or needed. Take a lot of General's in many Armies across the world to a gun range, you will be surprised how little they actual know about firearms, and I'm no expert either...
LOL I know what you mean :p
sorry didnt want to sound smartass.
- There is no muzzle rise at all, but you do get a harder "thump" against the shoulder when shooting.
Do you think this is the result of the barrel profile?
Chrome lining the barrel is pointless and stupid, the process of Hammer forging HK barrels or say COLT CANADA barrels is retarded and outdated. It is impossible to match the groves/lands of the barrel when doing the chrome process. It is not needed on that type of high end steal. By Chrome lining that Barrel you are just hurting the accuracy and adding an unnecessary layer to the barrel.
This thread is filled with FAIL...
Were the barrel coated with melonite or another corrosion resistant environmental coating, I might agree with you about the chrome lining, but it is not. I'd prefer the chrome lining present on other military grade firearms, like the HK416.
Cold hammer forging enhances barrel life. My understanding is that one of the benefits of the piston operating system is that it reduces the heat that degrades the life of the bolt and other key internal components. Thus, your bolt should last longer than in a DI system.
I'm not convinced that hammer forged barrels are a necessity in all AR pattern rifles, but in the HK piston system and the KAC SR15E3, it makes sense because the barrel may turn out to be the component that wears out first. Thus, having a barrel that will last as long as possible will reduce maintenance requirements on end users. KevinB has mentioned that you are more likely to wear out the barrel of your SR15E3 than the bolt, and several years ago Larry Vickers noted (http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?Itemid=5&catid=8:the-automatic-rifles&id=80:hk416&option=com_content&view=article) that he had yet to see a HK416 bolt fail in testing (whether that has held up in actual usage I have no idea - would welcome insights from more knowledgeable end users, but this was one of the selling points when the 416 series was introduced).
leibermuster
05-01-11, 14:02
Were the barrel coated with melonite or another corrosion resistant environmental coating, I might agree with you about the chrome lining, but it is not. I'd prefer the chrome lining present on other military grade firearms, like the HK416.
Cold hammer forging enhances barrel life. My understanding is that one of the benefits of the piston operating system is that it reduces the heat that degrades the life of the bolt and other key internal components. Thus, your bolt should last longer than in a DI system.
I'm not convinced that hammer forged barrels are a necessity in all AR pattern rifles, but in the HK piston system and the KAC SR15E3, it makes sense because the barrel may turn out to be the component that wears out first. Thus, having a barrel that will last as long as possible will reduce maintenance requirements on end users. KevinB has mentioned that you are more likely to wear out the barrel of your SR15E3 than the bolt, and several years ago Larry Vickers noted (http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?Itemid=5&catid=8:the-automatic-rifles&id=80:hk416&option=com_content&view=article) that he had yet to see a HK416 bolt fail in testing (whether that has held up in actual usage I have no idea - would welcome insights from more knowledgeable end users, but this was one of the selling points when the 416 series was introduced).
But why Chrome lining, it is not essential or necessary anymore, not an HK made barrel, the positive don't outweigh the negatives by Chrome lining it. That barrel will last longer then most barrels out there that do have Chrome lining, plus it lessons the accuracy of the barrel. The way that barrel is made now and the type of steel used, the chrome lining is out of date and obsolete..and totally unnecessary...
I guess HK makes magical unicorn horn infused barrels... :rolleyes:
But why Chrome lining, it is not essential or necessary anymore, not an HK made barrel, the positive don't outweigh the negatives by Chrome lining it. That barrel will last longer then most barrels out there that do have Chrome lining, plus it lessons the accuracy of the barrel. The way that barrel is made now and the type of steel used, the chrome lining is out of date and obsolete..
Just to quote from Rob_S' chart...
Chrome-lining of the chamber and bore serve to protect both from corrosion due to the heat of combustion of the gunpowder in the bullet as well as "neglect" in humid or other harsh environments. The chamber and bore are directly related to the accuracy potential of a firearm, and damage to either in the form of pitting will negatively impact the accuracy potential. The trade off is that chrome is often applied unevenly, at the microscopic level, meaning that it may negatively affect the accuracy potential in and of itself. The potential for damage due to other factors is generally considered greater than the small amount of uneven application, and so chrome-lining is generally considered desirable. No, it cannot be added after the fact as barrels intended for chrome-lining are first slightly overbored with the lining then reducing the internal diameter to the proper dimension.
For military purposes - where your rifle might be exposed to the elements for extended periods - chrome lining prevents rust and other environmental damage. Again, I agree that there are other promising techniques, such as the melonite coating used in the ACR, but some kind of hostile environment coating should be used on a military rifle.
As for accuracy, I've never viewed the HK MR556 as a competitor to 'match grade' rifles from other manufacturers. I think the marginal decrease in accuracy is worth the durability tradeoff. Were I looking for more of an accurized AR for field use, I'd probably look for something with a stainless barrel.
leibermuster
05-01-11, 17:20
Just to quote from Rob_S' chart...
Chrome-lining of the chamber and bore serve to protect both from corrosion due to the heat of combustion of the gunpowder in the bullet as well as "neglect" in humid or other harsh environments. The chamber and bore are directly related to the accuracy potential of a firearm, and damage to either in the form of pitting will negatively impact the accuracy potential. The trade off is that chrome is often applied unevenly, at the microscopic level, meaning that it may negatively affect the accuracy potential in and of itself. The potential for damage due to other factors is generally considered greater than the small amount of uneven application, and so chrome-lining is generally considered desirable. No, it cannot be added after the fact as barrels intended for chrome-lining are first slightly overbored with the lining then reducing the internal diameter to the proper dimension.
For military purposes - where your rifle might be exposed to the elements for extended periods - chrome lining prevents rust and other environmental damage. Again, I agree that there are other promising techniques, such as the melonite coating used in the ACR, but some kind of hostile environment coating should be used on a military rifle.
As for accuracy, I've never viewed the HK MR556 as a competitor to 'match grade' rifles from other manufacturers. I think the marginal decrease in accuracy is worth the durability tradeoff. Were I looking for more of an accurized AR for field use, I'd probably look for something with a stainless barrel.
Well worry not, the barrel will not rust or corrode and you loose no accuracy, so you get both...
Cylinder Head
05-04-11, 09:58
Well, H&K just got some great PR thanks to Soldier Systems.
Apparently their updated info has OBL being offed by an HK416.
http://soldiersystems.net/2011/05/03/rumor-has-it/
Too bad they only sell us 9+ pound boat anchors instead of 416's.
Heavy Metal
05-04-11, 11:41
But why Chrome lining, it is not essential or necessary anymore, not an HK made barrel, the positive don't outweigh the negatives by Chrome lining it. That barrel will last longer then most barrels out there that do have Chrome lining, plus it lessons the accuracy of the barrel. The way that barrel is made now and the type of steel used, the chrome lining is out of date and obsolete..and totally unnecessary...
I prefer to give up a microscopic degree of theoretical accuracy that will never be realized in the field for a barrel that is corrosion resistant.
They can make whatever BS Olympic Arms type excuses for not lining the barrel they want but there is no reason on Gods's green Earth to not at least melonite it. Nobody makes a serious military grade rifle in this day and age without some barrel treatment. This is not a SPR or DMR type rifle and needs to reflect that.
This is just cutting corners, pure and simple. No matter how one trys and spin it, it's sour grapes.
Heavy Metal
05-04-11, 11:43
Well worry not, the barrel will not rust or corrode and you loose no accuracy, so you get both...
Please explain to me how untreated steel will not rust.
I really hope they are nitriding the barrel but if they are, they are doing a poor job publicizing it.
MikeCLeonard
05-04-11, 19:05
9.3 lbs. for an unloaded rifle with iron sights? :blink:
I'm reeeeaaally not digging this model.
Non chrome lined barrel, or nitrate treatment.
M60 barrel profile. Agree, lighter would be nicer.
No ambidextrous controls. Wrong, has ambi selectors
Non standard rail height. OH NO! Trash all SCARS too!
Lame ass bolt tab to prevent civilians from using a carrier they couldn't utilize without an $8500 trigger group (or $12,000 lower) anyway. Agreed, dumb feature
Did I mention that we don't even have a real way to get a full auto 416 carrier? Wrong
No redesigned bolt, extractor, monolithic upper, or anything else that matters. Other people have opinions on what matters to them.
Unless they lose the retarded profile, treat the barrel, shorten the barrel, and give ambidextrous features, there is NO reason to buy this gun. In your opinion
I'd rather have a true-to-spec G3.
.....
Chrome lining the barrel is pointless and stupid, the process of Hammer forging HK barrels or say COLT CANADA barrels is retarded and outdated. It is impossible to match the groves/lands of the barrel when doing the chrome process. It is not needed on that type of high end steal. By Chrome lining that Barrel you are just hurting the accuracy and adding an unnecessary layer to the barrel.
This thread is filled with FAIL...
Au contraire. One may give up some accuracy win chrome lining due to imperfections of the plating BUT one gains corrosion-resistance.
By the way, HK - like most EUropean rifle makers of tactical merit have barrels and receivers that are nitrocarburized (i.e., "Tenifered" or "Tuftrided") which is very similar to "Meloniting".
If you don't treat the surface of steel it corrodes. Period.
My $.02.
I got to handle the MR556 in the gunstore today. It did not seem as heavy as I expected, nor did it strike me as particularly heavy, though definitely more than a Colt 6920.
Of course this isn't the same as handling the gun fully accessorized. But I managed to run a carbine class with 102 fever with my 10.3" HK416 upper, so I imagine I would be able to do it with this gun in normal health.
It definitely did have great astetics, but that doesn't mean much to someone like myself who buys a lot of his guns used and scuffed.
Magic_Salad0892
05-05-11, 18:36
Agree, lighter would be nicer.
Wrong, has ambi selectors But not magazine release, or bolt release, which are the controls actually WORTH making ambi
OH NO! Trash all SCARS too! That isn't an AR. That's a little different.
Agreed, dumb feature
Wrong I'll admit I'm wrong, if you can tell me how to get one. I know of no way.
Other people have opinions on what matters to them. What fails more in an AR - the gas system, or the extractor?
In your opinion True, but others as well.
I hope I don't come off as rude.
I finger banged one in a gun range the other day. Did not feel too heavy. Looked like HK quality. If I where to go down the piston road, HK would be high on my list. I kinda wanted it.
Since they used icons for SAFE and FIRE, this would have been preferable:
http://ferrarishields.com/hk2.jpg
That's hilarious, dude. I was thinking the exact same thing.
oh no. The Gucci gear pencil barrel crowd is PISSED.
:laugh:
Must be the inner city model.
Since they used icons for SAFE and FIRE, this would have been preferable:
http://ferrarishields.com/hk2.jpg
Please explain to me how untreated steel will not rust.
I really hope they are nitriding the barrel but if they are, they are doing a poor job publicizing it.
Magical HK fairy dust apparently. It's not nitrocarburized according to HK website. They have practically a direct quote from Rock River about chrome lining reducing accuracy (on a 4 moa rifle).
I'm surprised no one else pointed out the camber dimensions aren't NATO spec. They are CIP which is euro equivalent of SAAMI.
Magical HK fairy dust apparently. It's not nitrocarburized according to HK website. They have practically a direct quote from Rock River about chrome lining reducing accuracy (on a 4 moa rifle).
I'm surprised no one else pointed out the camber dimensions aren't NATO spec. They are CIP which is euro equivalent of SAAMI.
I am not familiar with CIP - does this mean a .223 chamber vice 5.56mm?
Dig the sights and the easier looking to use buffer spring detent.
I am not familiar with CIP - does this mean a .223 chamber vice 5.56mm?
Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes a Feu Portatives
It's tested to same pressure as NATO but the chamber dimensions are closer to .223 commercial.
Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes a Feu Portatives
It's tested to same pressure as NATO but the chamber dimensions are closer to .223 commercial.
Thank you...just learned something new. Unfortunately, everytime I learn something new about this barrel it becomes less and less desirable.
9.3 lbs. for an unloaded rifle with iron sights? :
That is only becuase of the heavy barrel profile. My current 10.5" 416 upper has the lighter profile barrel and it feels like any other AR. I suspect given time HK will switch to a lighter profile barrel on the MR556, just like they have on 416's.
Non chrome lined barrel, or nitrate treatment.
Considering how HK is world renowned for having the finest barrels in the world it's safe to consider this as a non-issue.
M60 barrel profile.
Yeah, this is something I would like to see changed. A trip to ADCO for a barrel re-profile would help for now.
No ambidextrous controls.
While it means nothing to me the MR556 has them.
Non standard rail height.
Complete non-issue. This is something people on the internet complain about when they want to complain about something/anything.
Lame ass bolt tab to prevent civilians from using a carrier they couldn't utilize without an $8500 trigger group (or $12,000 lower) anyway.
Did I mention that we don't even have a real way to get a full auto 416 carrier?
Who would care? I would bet less than one in a million AR owners own a NFA auto lower. This is something people on the internet complain about when they want to complain about something/anything.
No redesigned bolt, extractor, monolithic upper, or anything else that matters.
Redesigned for what? It was redesigned from the start on the 416. Monolithic means nothing to me. As for the 416's rail system it would be hard for anyone to not consider it the finest rail system on the planet as it sits. Nothing else even comes close.
Paul hit the nail right on the head.
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-08-11, 15:59
I am with Paul on this one. The people complaining were going to complain no-matter what.
FChen17213
05-08-11, 17:13
The HK Rifle is a good weapon. I know it is a little bit heavier, but there are merits of a piston system when it is done correctly. Nothing wrong with DI system, but let's keep an open mind and accept the fact that there's nothing wrong with a good piston system as well like the HK416.
Heavy Metal
05-08-11, 17:13
I am with Paul on this one. The people complaining were going to complain no-matter what.
I would not complain if this had been close to the gun it should have been. To me, the untreated barrel is a deal breaker. The weight on the barrel is the other. I had a chance to handle one of these side by side with a SCAR the other day then the SCAR felt like handling a feather in comparison. Doesn't have to be chrome but it does have to be something that will retard corrosion like a Nitride finish. A 3K$ AR with an untreated chamber is simply a no-no in my book. Having the barrel Nitrided would not have been a great additional expense.
The market for a gun like this is those who want an uncompromising hard use gun. They gave us a target rifle instead.
So close and yet so far.
I'm not a hater, but I'm also 95% sure that the barrels are made here under contract for HK, by a very well regarded barrel manufacturer, for sure, but they are not "HK" barrels.
Are there any Kraut proof marks on the barrel?
A non chrome lined, non nitrided barrel in this day and age is just retarded.
My "hate" is reserved for the disconnect that so many European manufacturers have with US shooters.
I'm waiting for the first member to shoot out his MR556 barrel or have it "rust" before I flame them on the internet. It's not like the rifle has a bare metal barrel on it. ;) I seriously doubt that is going to happen. Unless it's some internet troll out to cause trouble.
IMO: It's one of the thee finest AR's in production as it sits now. Typical HK quality oozes from it. I highly suspect the 2nd gen will have a lighter barrel profile and other things to calm the internet. Like a cup holder. :D
I'm waiting for the first member to shoot out his MR556 barrel or have it "rust" before I flame them on the internet. It's not like the rifle has a bare metal barrel on it. ;) I seriously doubt that is going to happen. Unless it's some internet troll out to cause trouble.
IMO: It's one of the thee finest AR's in production as it sits now. Typical HK quality oozes from it. I highly suspect the 2nd gen will have a lighter barrel profile and other things to calm the internet. Like a cup holder. :D
Dude, I've seen non chrome plated cold hammer forged Steyr barrels, some of the best in the world, rust, and pit.
Your 416 upper has a hard chrome lined barrel, the MR556A1 should have one as well, and there is no reason why it should weigh as much as a M1 Garand.
It isn't that heavy.
I've handled two now, and it is nothing as bad as the internet makes it out to be. Since HK has already swapped 416 barrel's over to the lighter profile I highly suspect the later MR556's will have a similar barrel profile. This is only the first gen.
How many guys are going to treat their MR556 like a Yugo AK being used by an untrained conscript or militia? I suspect if you take care of it even remotely well it will last a life time. Even so those old Yugo AK's still run like a Swiss watch.
I want one. I love HK products. I've been a huge fan of German engineering since I was a child and rode in my first Mercedes. Til you ride in an S600, you can argue all you want that your 87 Ford Taurus will "do" the same thing for "less" money. Thats fine...its a free country. The fact still remains thats its engineered by a German firearms manufacturer. That all I need to know.
Hmmmmm.......should I believe the guys on M4Carbine or trust the German engineers at HK???? WOW...thats a hard one???:rolleyes:
I want one. I love HK products. I've been a huge fan of German engineering since I was a child and rode in my first Mercedes. Til you ride in an S600, you can argue all you want that your 87 Ford Taurus will "do" the same thing for "less" money. Thats fine...its a free country. The fact still remains thats its engineered by a German firearms manufacturer. That all I need to know.
Hmmmmm.......should I believe the guys on M4Carbine or trust the German engineers at HK???? WOW...thats a hard one???:rolleyes:
As for people crying about the weight....I have one suggestion..GET OFF THE INTERNET AND GO TO THE GYM.
You know, they can make it weigh 5lbs, chrome line the barrel and put a stun mode on it but I still refuse to buy a gun that has "read manual" etching on it. I just bought a $3000 combat rifle, do you think I'm so dumb that I need you to write "read manual" on it?
What would the reaction be on this site if this barrel (non-chrome lined HBAR) were attached to a Colt, KAC, BCM, DD, Noveske or whatever brand of AR you associate with quality?
I'm happy to see HK offer a new AR pattern rifle to the US market. All indications are that it has the highest quality of manufacture and engineering that we associate with HK. And I'm pleased to see some of the 416 features available to civilians. Like many, I wish it was a true 416 as opposed to this variant, just as I'd prefer something closer to the G36 than the SL8, or closer to the SIG 552 than the 556. The AR market is pretty crowded these days, and so many variations are easily available that folks can be picky.
Dinger, I was actually talking about Steyr StG-58 FAL's, not Yugo AK's.
I've also seen real HK G3 barrels get screwed up, as well as civilian HK 91 barrels.
The MR556A1 weighs 9.04 lbs empty, without optics.
The M1 Garand weighs 9.5 lbs empty without optics.
There is absolutely no good reason besides HK's head up it's ass that the barrel is as heavy as it is and without some kind of protective plating or coating.
I'm not a hater, but I'm not a fanboy either. I have plenty of time on a 416 10.5". If HK would have just released a standard weight barrel with the same hard chrome plating that's on a HK 416 barrel, they would have hit it out of the park.
Let's be objective about this.
What would the reaction be on this site if this barrel (non-chrome lined HBAR) were attached to a Colt, KAC, BCM, DD, Noveske or whatever brand of AR you associate with quality? .
My guess is that most of the serious shooters here wouldn't buy them unless they wanted a range/target gun...
This pretty much sums up the euro-gun experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUnH9NECSUU
As for people crying about the weight....I have one suggestion..GET OFF THE INTERNET AND GO TO THE GYM.
Really?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCN3SZOKp9M
ForTehNguyen
05-08-11, 21:19
yea I should carry around another 2 lbs on an AR style rifle for no added benefit. Add on an eotech and it weighs as much as my M1 garand
I'm sorry, am I missing something here? This thing looks stupid as hell!
Dinger, I was actually talking about Steyr StG-58 FAL's, not Yugo AK's.
I've also seen real HK G3 barrels get screwed up, as well as civilian HK 91 barrels.
The MR556A1 weighs 9.04 lbs empty, without optics.
The M1 Garand weighs 9.5 lbs empty without optics.
There is absolutely no good reason besides HK's head up it's ass that the barrel is as heavy as it is and without some kind of protective plating or coating.
I'm not a hater, but I'm not a fanboy either. I have plenty of time on a 416 10.5". If HK would have just released a standard weight barrel with the same hard chrome plating that's on a HK 416 barrel, they would have hit it out of the park.
Let's be objective about this.
Exactly.
Let's put that weight into perspective. The HK is a tad over 2.25 lbs heavier than the KAC SR-15. For that two and a quarter pounds you could add a T-1 w/mount, SF M600C w/batteries, DBAL-I2 w/battery, and a suppressor. I can tell you which one I'd rather have.
The HK416 is an excellent, combat proven platform. But as currently configured, it's way, way heavier than it needs to be. When HK wakes up and puts a proper barrel on there (with chrome lining or nitriding) they will be on to something. But until then, I will pick a platform that offers the same capability at much less weight.
Heavy Metal
05-08-11, 21:53
As for people crying about the weight....I have one suggestion..GET OFF THE INTERNET AND GO TO THE GYM.
Guess what? I DO GO TO THE GYM! Hell, last weekend, I carried 60lbs of sh^t to the top of the third highest point in Virginia mostly across country away from any kind of improved footpath and lived out of it for three days.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/227340_220914971252697_100000025861897_931062_236293_n.jpg
I have no problem with weight in necessary equipment if it serves a true purpose and marketing purposes do not count.
Heavy barrels are for varmit rigs and machine guns.
Who says the barrel is just plain untreated (of any kind) stainless? Doesn't HK do nitrocaronizing to some of it's barrels?
Wasn't the SPR barrels stainless? Don't we have thread after thread on the advantages of stainless barrels? Even if you don't personally agree with it, some people have educated arguments in support of them.
Personally, I would have preferred a standard chromed lined newer profile HK416 barrel but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. It's still one of the finest rifles available on the planet. Even if the internet will tear it to shreds. Let's remember that up until recently this is the same weigh/profile barrel found on 416's even when the internet was merely bitching they were not available in the U.S. yet.
Also, this is just the 1st gen, like I've said before I have no doubt the barrels will change over time.
The problem is that it's not stainless, it's carbon steel, and it's not treated.
It's not even a German barrel made by HK. Now, I have no problem with who made the barrel, they make outstanding barrels and they're just doing what the contract with HK told them to do, but bottom line, it's a 5.56mm 16" carbine that uses a carbon steel non treated barrel that weighs as much as a 24" barreled .30-06 battle rifle, slick.
Real deal 416 barrels aren't as thick as the MR556A1 is, not even the 1st Gen models.
IF HK brings out an A2 variant with a standard weight 16" barrel that's treated with hard chrome or some other process that resists corrosion, wear and tear, and makes cleaning a snap, then I'd seriously consider one.
But they aren't, and if after 6 years of dicking around trying to bring a civilian 416 to market the MR556A1 is the best they can do, I'm not holding my breath hoping the Krauts will come to their senses.
RAM Engineer
05-08-11, 22:54
Let's remember that up until recently this is the same weigh/profile barrel found on 416's even when the internet was merely bitching they were not available in the U.S.
Those real deal 416 barrels are 2"-6" shorter than the MR556. Something else I doubt we will ever see from HK (factory SBRs).
HK USA confirmed the MR556 barrel is not treated in any way, nor is it a 5.56 chamber.
I'm not a hater and in fact the real 416 is my favorite piston upper but they are so different from the MR556. It is like they are marketing a bench/match shooting AR to the bubbas out of the military-inspired 416 system which makes no sense.
However, even with a thinner barrel profile or a second revision that VA Dinger envisions, the HK barrel nut/rail mount and gas blocks are still boat anchors.
Ignore the top LWRC in the photo.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1004431/HK416_LWRC.jpg
Why does HK always have to be a little bit different? ;)
If it works, whats the problem? Good lookin' boomstick.
Who says the barrel is just plain untreated (of any kind) stainless? Doesn't HK do nitrocaronizing to some of it's barrels?
It's not stainless, it's not nitrocarburized, it is plain steel. The specs are not secret, directly from the HK USA website:
the MR556A1 does not use a chrome-lined barrel. Chrome-lining can sometimes mask bore imperfections and negatively affect accuracy. For the new series of Heckler & Koch semi-automatic MR rifles, HK designers and engineers believe best accuracy comes with an unlined bore.
http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/mr556_general.asp
Doesn't matter what they might be doing in the future. Doesn't matter if you can spend $X getting a post-retail barrel swap/reprofile. This is what they are offering as a premium product and it comes up short by the standard measures.
MikeCLeonard
05-09-11, 02:13
I hope I don't come off as rude.
Nope...not rude at all :)
Adam at Hkparts.net has got a line on most 416 small parts...although pricey...though most people understand that you're not getting into economy pricing with Hk stuff.
The MR556/416 isn't perfect or what everyone is looking for...but seems to get bashed and nit-picked apart for things that don't warrant it.
I guess rail height could be an issue if you're swapping optic mounts/buis's around from rifle to rifle...but if not, there are plenty of options to account for the difference and work very well with the 416/MR/SCAR/ACR.
Many, if not most of the top-tier rifles out there come with standard non-ambi controls or just the ambi-selectors...but don't seem to catch much flack about it.
My biggest complaint is the weight...even with my 10.5" 416...the sucker is a chunk...though Hk does have lighter barrels out now.
Anyhow...don't mean to be all Hk fan-boyish...In the end, the LMT MRP is my super fave rifle! :D
Seems to me that the reception to the MR556 is reminiscent of the introduction of the Bushmaster ACR a few years back. The ACR was criticized as too expensive and too heavy - with much of the criticism focused on the barrel (non-chrome lined, heavier M4 profile, 1/9 twist). Later it came out that the barrel was treated with melonite, and that 1/7 twist barrels would become available. Perhaps the MR556 will follow a similar progression, though I'm less enthusiastic that HK will prove receptive to consumer feedback. But the market response is consistent - heavier barrel profiles are out right now, and we'd like to know that the bore is lined with something.
The problem is that it's not stainless, it's carbon steel, and it's not treated.
It's not even a German barrel made by HK. Now, I have no problem with who made the barrel, they make outstanding barrels and they're just doing what the contract with HK told them to do, but bottom line, it's a 5.56mm 16" carbine that uses a carbon steel non treated barrel that weighs as much as a 24" barreled .30-06 battle rifle, slick.
The MR556 does have German HK barrels; they are just completed in the U.S.
I have asked someone who can find out real quick what if anything is done to the barrels for a finish. I have zero faith in HK USA website specs or what some customer service agent in the U.S. says. It's been proven time and time again that customer service agent info can be bad, no matter what company they work for. Especially for HK USA since they are really nothing but a distributor.
Like I said before, I've handed two MR556's now and they did not feel overly heavy. No doubt the lighter barrel profile would be better though, and I highly suspect the later generations will see this change. Same as they did for the 416's. You cannot even get the older style heavy barrels now on a 416 unless you special order them. Production has switched the lighter profile barrels completely.
Either way, I plan on buying one.
I prefer to give up a microscopic degree of theoretical accuracy that will never be realized in the field for a barrel that is corrosion resistant.
They can make whatever BS Olympic Arms type excuses for not lining the barrel they want but there is no reason on Gods's green Earth to not at least melonite it. Nobody makes a serious military grade rifle in this day and age without some barrel treatment. This is not a SPR or DMR type rifle and needs to reflect that.
This is just cutting corners, pure and simple. No matter how one trys and spin it, it's sour grapes.
Yep. HK is cutting corners.
I am with Paul on this one. The people complaining were going to complain no-matter what.
It is going to cost around $6000 to get this gun up to the level of every other competitive weapon on the market by the time you factor in the barrel issues and other import ban work arounds.
That is something to complain about when the next most expensive gun costs around $3500.
Kaasselslay
05-09-11, 11:37
......This thread is filled with FAIL...
This is the most sensible thing I ever read on M4carbine.com.
justin_247
05-09-11, 12:34
What's so great about this rifle again?
Hunter Rose
05-09-11, 13:16
It is going to cost around $6000 to get this gun up to the level of every other competitive weapon on the market ...
That's a little extreme.
You make it sound like the MR556 in current configuration is unable to accurately and reliably fire rounds. Yes the barrel is unlined and the rifle weighs more than a DI AR, but it will shoot reliably and accurately just fine. It's not like the thing is going to instantaneously rust away to nothing if a drop of water gets on it. It's still an HK steel CHF barrel and like the HK93's unlined barrel, you'll easily get 20K+ rounds out of it.
Is it perfect in current configuration? No, but it does work very well. Guys like Montrala have put thousands of rounds through these things in training/competition in Europe without problems. It may not fit everyone's personal preference list, but it's still a top tier rifle.
Magic_Salad0892
05-09-11, 13:32
That is only becuase of the heavy barrel profile. My current 10.5" 416 upper has the lighter profile barrel and it feels like any other AR. I suspect given time HK will switch to a lighter profile barrel on the MR556, just like they have on 416's.
Question: Does the op rod change balance?
Considering how HK is world renowned for having the finest barrels in the world it's safe to consider this as a non-issue.
My issue, is that there are cheaper guns, that will hold up better. Colt, for instance.
Yeah, this is something I would like to see changed. A trip to ADCO for a barrel re-profile would help for now.
Which costs money, add that to the $2,500 price tag.
While it means nothing to me the MR556 has them.
It does mean something to me, and almost all ''modern combat rifles'' over the $2k mark has an ambidextrous magazine button, and bolt release (on ADAX lower it's also a bolt catch). Ambi safety means very little to me.
Complete non-issue. This is something people on the internet complain about when they want to complain about something/anything.
It's an issue for folks who want to flip sights, scopes, and mounts between rifles.
Who would care? I would bet less than one in a million AR owners own a NFA auto lower. This is something people on the internet complain about when they want to complain about something/anything.
Carrier mass helps slow down carrier velocity. And adds piece of mind.
Redesigned for what? It was redesigned from the start on the 416. Monolithic means nothing to me. As for the 416's rail system it would be hard for anyone to not consider it the finest rail system on the planet as it sits. Nothing else even comes close.
I have no evidence to refute that, other than I do believe the Knights URX-III rail is superior, due to being lighter, with selectable rail sections, integrated front sight, and integrated (anti-rotation I think) sling swivels.
I am curious as to why you say that though.
Once again. I hope I didn't come off as rude. Thanks for the response, Paul.
As for the 416's rail system it would be hard for anyone to not consider it the finest rail system on the planet as it sits. Nothing else even comes close.
I don't know how you come to that conclusion when the DD RIS2 and KAC URX have the ability to remove their bottom rail for cleaning and M203 mounting and remain free float.
Dinger, my quoted information is from the MR556A1 factory manual, page 6.
I'd love to know what state (not geographical) the barrels are imported in, and how they're finished here. I know that HK does not cold hammer forge them here in the US, they're outsourced.
I sincerely hope you enjoy your $3K 5.56mm non treated barrel M1 Garand.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Funny%20stuff/coffee.gif
For those that talk about picking up a MR223 and thinking it doesn't weigh all that much, what do you have on hand for comparison purposes?
I say this because my first experience with an ACR, I thought the same thing. Picked it up and went "People are crazy. This isn't bad at all." Then I picked up a SCAR and immediately saw a big difference.
MikeCLeonard
05-09-11, 18:00
I don't know how you come to that conclusion when the DD RIS2 and KAC URX have the ability to remove their bottom rail for cleaning and M203 mounting and remain free float.
I really like those rails (URX, RIS2) and have used both...as it's pretty much a requirement of mine to be able to access the barrel for cleaning.
What I do like about the 416 rail is the ability to remove the hole thing and have a better access to all parts of the barrel/barrel nut. Also, this is accomplished by removing 1 screw instead of multiple, and rail panels (if present) don't need to be taken off first...which was annoying, at least to me, while running the Magpul XTM's. I think it would be great for there to be integrated sling-mount sockets like the KAC though. DD, and many other rail makers should do so as well. As for the weight...The actual 416 rail doesn't seem very heavy at all, though I haven't weighed it. Might do that sometime as I'd be curious to see how it compares to the DD and KAC rails.
It doesn't get talked about all that much, but I also gotta say that the Hk E1 stock is probably one of the nicest stocks I've ever used. I've used CTR's, SOPMODS, E-Mods, Mod-Stocks, PRS, UBR's, and standard M4 stocks...and I think the Hk is my favorite. Some people hate the looks of it...but I don't care about the looks...its got a nice cheek-weld without anything to pull facial hair, quickly removable and swappable butt-pads, easy access storage tubes, and can lock down completely solid. Although I don't use stock-mounted sling points...it would have been nice for Hk to add one though.
Magic_Salad0892
05-09-11, 18:02
I think the M203 argument is almost invalid because of rail mounted 'nade launchers.
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-09-11, 18:44
$6000 to turn it into a Colt 6920! That does seem expensive. Just think how much it would cost to turn this thing into a Steyr Aug.
Larry Vickers
05-09-11, 20:31
My call on the non chrome lined issue is HK Oberndorf did not want anyone in the USA to mess with the inside of the barrel - they are understandably proud of their barrels and they like having total control - the hard chromer they use is in Oberndorf itself and the whole sending barrel blanks to the USA to have them finished is not something they are real keen on - and no doubt a big part of the delay to the market. Because of that they probably figured a non chrome lined barrel for a civilian rifle is no biggie - in that sense they kind of missed the mark as the US market, particularly in the AR realm , is very sophisticated - far more so than the European market the MR223 is sold in.
As for the barrel profile itself I am clueless - it is the heaviest profile on any 416 type weapon - even heavier than the M27. I have no idea what the thought process was behind that.
I of course have an MR556 for my pile - which is natural based on my involvement with the gun. Overall build quality is excellent - it has a few sharp edges I am not fond of and is overweight for sure. I won't be using it as a primary teaching gun but I am glad I have it. One thing that is a home run from a real world perspective; the ability to put the gun on safe with the hammer forward- anytime you can load and unload your weapon with the safety engaged is a plus.
Be safe
LAV
I think the M203 argument is almost invalid because of rail mounted 'nade launchers.
Nope.
The barrel mounted M203 is still preferable because it tucks up under the weapon the best and has the least amount of bulk.
Rail mounted M203s like the LMT suck and I can't stand them.
I also don't like the HK launchers because of their pistol grip hanging off the weapon.
I don't care about the side loading for longer projectiles. One gives up too much with other launchers over an M203 for the side loading to matter.
$6000 to turn it into a Colt 6920! That does seem expensive. Just think how much it would cost to turn this thing into a Steyr Aug.
No, its $6000 to turn it into a semi HK416, the gun that should have been produced in the first place.
Hunter Rose
05-09-11, 21:03
For those that talk about picking up a MR223 and thinking it doesn't weigh all that much, what do you have on hand for comparison purposes?
I say this because my first experience with an ACR, I thought the same thing. Picked it up and went "People are crazy. This isn't bad at all." Then I picked up a SCAR and immediately saw a big difference.
Comparing it to a DDM4V1 w/ SOPMOD Stock, Surefire X300, and Aimpoint M4S in a Larue Mount. The MR556 w/ Aimpoint T1 & Surefire G2 is definitely heavier and more forward balanced, but it is hardly unmanageable and the weight issue is overblown IMO. My buddy who is 5'8" and 155 lbs thought the same thing on the weight. He expected it to feel much heavier. It's heavier than a DI AR for sure, but people act like your toting a 20lb GPMG around.
This opinion is based on using it as a home defense carbine and to take to training classes. I'm 6'5" 225lbs and in decent shape. I'm not infantry or an LEO SWAT type, so I will not be humping it up mountains or pointing it down a hallway for hours. If I was doing either of these, sure a lighter rifle would be nicer, but then I could get a select fire 416 too, so it's a non-issue.
Heavy Metal
05-09-11, 22:33
If they come out with a revised model with a lighter profile, treated barrel, I will get one for sure.
I am not going to shell out 3K now for something less than what I desire and kick myself in the ass two years from now when somebody decides to make what I wanted all along.
The message is fix it H&K and I will buy one, even at 3K$.
They made some odd choices with this one, its almost like a tacticool benchrest target gun...
justin_247
05-10-11, 05:12
The HK416 is awesome. This thing is not.
Every day on this forum, people are being given advice on bringing inferior ARs up-to-spec. Generally, people are advised to avoid ARs with heavier barrels and without 5.56 mm chambers, chrome-lined barrels, and full-auto bolt carriers.
Now, HK brings out a weapon with all kinds of features that would get a similarly-equipped AR immediately rejected and they're given a pass - all because they're HK and apparently HK can do no wrong.
Bizarre.
Magic_Salad0892
05-10-11, 05:16
The HK416 is awesome. This thing is not.
Every day on this forum, people are being given advice on bringing inferior ARs up-to-spec. Generally, people are advised to avoid ARs with heavier barrels and without 5.56 mm chambers, chrome-lined barrels, and full-auto bolt carriers.
Now, HK brings out a weapon with all kinds of features that would get a similarly-equipped AR immediately rejected and they're given a pass - all because they're HK and apparently HK can do no wrong.
Bizarre.
Couldn't have said it better.
HK screwed the pooch on this one.
I love my USP. I don't love this rifle.
Yeah there is lots of kool-aid drinking in this thread for sure. You'd be a fool to spend that kind of money on that rifle.
Is there anyone who surface treats (nitrocarburizing, melonite, etc.) barrels after-the-fact? i.e. if you bought an MR556 you could send it to them and have the barrel treated?
Is there anyone who surface treats (nitrocarburizing, melonite, etc.) barrels after-the-fact? i.e. if you bought an MR556 you could send it to them and have the barrel treated?
Why would you do that instead of buying an HK416 barrel?
I don't know of any HK416 barrels that aren't attached to $4,000 uppers.
Why is the dust cover plastic? Not a big deal, but it looks a little plumbcrazy to me...
Cylinder Head
05-10-11, 15:10
Why is the dust cover plastic? Not a big deal, but it looks a little plumbcrazy to me...
They did it to get a better seal, not to cut costs.
Why would you do that instead of buying an HK416 barrel?
What exactly do you think the chances are of that being possible?
I don't know of any HK416 barrels that aren't attached to $4,000 uppers.
Kind of what I was thinking.
What exactly do you think the chances are of that being possible?
What are the chances of you finding someone that will chrome line an already finished barrel?
What exactly do you think the chances are of that being possible?
Non existant, brother.
What are the chances of you finding someone that will chrome line an already finished barrel?
I was talking about NiCorr or Melonite, etc. (surface conversions), not chrome lining.
Yeah there is lots of kool-aid drinking in this thread for sure. You'd be a fool to spend that kind of money on that rifle.
No joke. I know a lot of people have a hard-on for modular platforms with piston systems, and I understand why. Personally, however, for the money I'd rather have a SCAR. Don't get me wrong, I dig H&K. Like I said, I love my USP, and I used to have a huge hard-on for the PSG1 and SL8, but I don't get all the gushing over this one. Is there any reason to get this instead a SCAR?
Is there any reason to get this instead a SCAR?
Yes it is not as fricken ugly as a SCAR!:laugh:
Bottom line: you either like the MR 556 or you don't. No need to talk yourself into liking it. Plenty of other folks who will buy one. IMO, the non-chromed barrel is not a big deal and HK is betting that their are others like me who will buy it. I happen to believe LWRCI's are the greatest thing to ever happen to AR's but not everyone thinks that way. Do I give a rats ass? No. All I know is I don't spend all my time cleaning my weapons like I did in the Army and I have more time to reload. And yes, I also own an MR 556A1.
The people complaining were going to complain no-matter what.
And those who wanted an HK piston AR were going to buy the MR556 no matter how impractical it is as a combat weapon.
And those who wanted an HK piston AR were going to buy the MR556 no matter how impractical it is as a combat weapon.
Who's taking an MR556 to combat?
Who's taking an MR556 to combat?
I see your point, but for this matter, who's taking a Colt 6920 or Knight's SR-15E3 to combat?
<0.5% of the actual purchasers?
I'd consider getting one if they ever came to their senses with the barrel configuration and the price came down. Somebody said the barrel doesn't have a 5.56 chamber either? I find that hard to believe considering the model number is MR556, the barrel says 5.56x45mm, and the lower receiver says 5.56. Can you swap in any barrel you want or are they completely proprietary?
I'd consider getting one if they ever came to their senses with the barrel configuration and the price came down. Somebody said the barrel doesn't have a 5.56 chamber either? I find that hard to believe considering the model number is MR556, the barrel says 5.56x45mm, and the lower receiver says 5.56. Can you swap in any barrel you want or are they completely proprietary?
Chamber is 5.56. Funny enough European model (MR223) is marked as .223rem but has 5.56 chamber as well (same was with HK SL8).
Owner from Canada had his gunsmith install AR15 barrel in his MR223 (he wanted to use 10.4" light barrel and barrel cutting was not option for some legal reasons in Canada) using original HK barrel extension swapped from old barrel to new one. Barrel needed some gunsmithing, but it obviously can be done.
Using barrel shorter than 14.5" on MR556/223 require use different gas block (marked as 10.4) available as spare part or blocking (welding shut) gas dump hole in original gas block (same gas block for 14.5" and 16.5").
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-12-11, 19:41
And those who wanted an HK piston AR were going to buy the MR556 no matter how impractical it is as a combat weapon.
They will be so ill prepared for "combat." :sarcastic:Oh the humanity. I love the internet.
They will be so ill prepared for "combat." :sarcastic:Oh the humanity. I love the internet.
It doesn't really matter if it will actually be used in combat, but it seems that most here want a weapon with the capability to do so, non-treated HBAR's kinda go against that objective...
Even if an AR is used purely as a defensive weapon, what HK has delivered to American consumers sucks...it's a commercialized, watered down version of what we were hoping for...As mentioned by Larry Vickers, AR consumers are a savvy lot (thanks in large part to sites such as M4C), HK failed to deliver on this one...
Like others have said, this is the first gen so hopefully they will do better the next go-around...
If HK can give consumers a piston system that rivals the DI system in weight, accuracy,and reliability, I think even some of the die-hard purists will give the HK a shot, literally...
I love the internets too...
Yes it is not as fricken ugly as a SCAR!:laugh:
That's one opinion. In my opinion the gratuitous white print is ugly as hell, and I was never a fan of those funky G3 style sights.
They will be so ill prepared for "combat." :sarcastic:Oh the humanity. I love the internet.
I love gun nuts. They make us guys who just enjoy shooting look normal to the anti-gun nuts. :)
firearmslawyer
05-13-11, 12:12
Geeez, I hope I am not too late to the party. NOOB here with his first post.
I picked up an HK MR556 (Serial number 465) last week in preparation for Mr. Vicker's upcoming 2 day Carbine I course in PA in July, and I have it set up mostly as per his suggestions in his 2 DVD Carbine I and II set.
Just got the last component and mounted it last night, a Surefire X300. Have not even shot it yet! But plan to do so this weekend, zero it for 100M and practice the skills and etc. on the DVDs in preparation for the class. Here is a picture, any suggestions, critiques welcomed!
http://photos.imageevent.com/magdump/submachineguns/websize/HK%20MR%20556%20all%20set%20up_1.JPG
So did I buy a lemon here or what? I am new to the AR thing and had not heard anything bad about the HK MR556. I had a couple Bushmasters about a decade ago and liked them but sold them back then when my car died. I had been waiting since then to get a top-of-the line AR such as an LWRC or an HK or similar. When this came along, I figured it was time. So what is the deal? Is it inaccurate, will it break on me? I am not savvy yet obviously on all things AR so any advice deeply appreciated.
Chris T.
I'm sure it'll be fine. HK makes good stuff, and I still dig their products. This particular rifle just isn't everyone's cup of tea. Enjoy!
Anyone know if HK will be selling the upper separately ? I thought that was mentioned originally but as with all such things, plans seem to change.
Timberwolf
05-13-11, 12:48
Not a fan of all the bright white writing all over the rifle, but that's just a cosmetic personal preference. For the money, I like the LWRC or LMT offerings more.
As an aside, I heard the price is going up on these by almost $400 in June. I wonder if it has anything to do with Bin Laden...?
It's a world class rifle, most of us just don't dig the heavy barrel, the lack of chrome is sort of a weird thing too.
Geeez, I hope I am not too late to the party. NOOB here with his first post.
I picked up an HK MR556 (Serial number 465) last week in preparation for Mr. Vicker's upcoming 2 day Carbine I course in PA in July, and I have it set up mostly as per his suggestions in his 2 DVD Carbine I and II set.
Just got the last component and mounted it last night, a Surefire X300. Have not even shot it yet! But plan to do so this weekend, zero it for 100M and practice the skills and etc. on the DVDs in preparation for the class. Here is a picture, any suggestions, critiques welcomed!
http://photos.imageevent.com/magdump/submachineguns/websize/HK%20MR%20556%20all%20set%20up_1.JPG
So did I buy a lemon here or what? I am new to the AR thing and had not heard anything bad about the HK MR556. I had a couple Bushmasters about a decade ago and liked them but sold them back then when my car died. I had been waiting since then to get a top-of-the line AR such as an LWRC or an HK or similar. When this came along, I figured it was time. So what is the deal? Is it inaccurate, will it break on me? I am not savvy yet obviously on all things AR so any advice deeply appreciated.
Chris T.
So what is the deal? Is it inaccurate, will it break on me?
It is accurate and it will not break on you.
The deal is that it is HK and is loaded by tons of evil HK features. Fill white lettering with black paint and stick LWRCi/LMT/BCM/whatever sticker on it and it will be just fine :sarcastic:
As an aside, I heard the price is going up on these by almost $400 in June. I wonder if it has anything to do with Bin Laden...?
Low $ value and increased intl shipment costs. Lot of expensive parts for MR556 are made in Germany.
m4shooter1
05-13-11, 16:45
It looks (mostly) like a beautifully engineered weapon. I don't want it -- I prefer lighter rifles, chrome lined barrels, etc. , but that's just my preference.
Aside from all the more relevant comments regarding features... what is up with the Germans and the asinine warning statements on their guns? I've got a P22 with a similar statement, albeit not so "bright".
"Warning: Read operator's manual before use" no more protects HK from lawsuits than an engraving stating "Weapon not for use in the commission of crimes" or "Do not fire weapon when there is an obstruction in the barrel".
If that actually afforded legal protection, then everything in today's world would be permanently engraved with "Read instruction manual before use" and then they would magically be protected from products liability suits and all the various third party injury suits. I just hope other gun manufacturers don't follow this ridiculous precedent and start covering their firearms in common sense statements that actually give no real-world legal protection. That being said, I do see a legitimate reason for some of the "no mag safety" statements seen on handguns.
Geeez, I hope I am not too late to the party. NOOB here with his first post.
I picked up an HK MR556 (Serial number 465) last week in preparation for Mr. Vicker's upcoming 2 day Carbine I course in PA in July, and I have it set up mostly as per his suggestions in his 2 DVD Carbine I and II set.
Just got the last component and mounted it last night, a Surefire X300. Have not even shot it yet! But plan to do so this weekend, zero it for 100M and practice the skills and etc. on the DVDs in preparation for the class. Here is a picture, any suggestions, critiques welcomed!
http://photos.imageevent.com/magdump/submachineguns/websize/HK%20MR%20556%20all%20set%20up_1.JPG
So did I buy a lemon here or what? I am new to the AR thing and had not heard anything bad about the HK MR556. I had a couple Bushmasters about a decade ago and liked them but sold them back then when my car died. I had been waiting since then to get a top-of-the line AR such as an LWRC or an HK or similar. When this came along, I figured it was time. So what is the deal? Is it inaccurate, will it break on me? I am not savvy yet obviously on all things AR so any advice deeply appreciated.
Chris T.
You're going to have to let me shoot that.
See you in class.
That being said, I do see a legitimate reason for some of the "no mag safety" statements seen on handguns.
Yes, but a sticker would suffice.
Chamber is 5.56. Funny enough European model (MR223) is marked as .223rem but has 5.56 chamber as well (same was with HK SL8).
Owner from Canada had his gunsmith install AR15 barrel in his MR223 (he wanted to use 10.4" light barrel and barrel cutting was not option for some legal reasons in Canada) using original HK barrel extension swapped from old barrel to new one. Barrel needed some gunsmithing, but it obviously can be done.
Using barrel shorter than 14.5" on MR556/223 require use different gas block (marked as 10.4) available as spare part or blocking (welding shut) gas dump hole in original gas block (same gas block for 14.5" and 16.5").
That is actually not true. There is absolutely no upper receiver regulations for the AR-15 in Canada, only the lower receiver is considered the firearm and is classified as restricted. He probably didn't know the regulations correctly... :rolleyes:
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-13-11, 20:48
firearmslawyer,
Dude, ignore this. HK has drawn out LEGIONS of knee-jerk haters for decades.
Magic_Salad0892
05-14-11, 00:20
Geeez, I hope I am not too late to the party. NOOB here with his first post.
I picked up an HK MR556 (Serial number 465) last week in preparation for Mr. Vicker's upcoming 2 day Carbine I course in PA in July, and I have it set up mostly as per his suggestions in his 2 DVD Carbine I and II set.
Just got the last component and mounted it last night, a Surefire X300. Have not even shot it yet! But plan to do so this weekend, zero it for 100M and practice the skills and etc. on the DVDs in preparation for the class. Here is a picture, any suggestions, critiques welcomed!
http://photos.imageevent.com/magdump/submachineguns/websize/HK%20MR%20556%20all%20set%20up_1.JPG
So did I buy a lemon here or what? I am new to the AR thing and had not heard anything bad about the HK MR556. I had a couple Bushmasters about a decade ago and liked them but sold them back then when my car died. I had been waiting since then to get a top-of-the line AR such as an LWRC or an HK or similar. When this came along, I figured it was time. So what is the deal? Is it inaccurate, will it break on me? I am not savvy yet obviously on all things AR so any advice deeply appreciated.
Chris T.
One critique.
You need a rear sight. Otherwise good job.
Greg, I don't mean any offence by this, even in the slightest:
But why does it seem HK is exempt from what we beat down other manufacturers for?
I love HK. But a factory spec HK G3, or G36(with C and K models), or even a factory spec 416 would have been more appreciated than this.
This is a sporting configuration marketed as a police ready duty rifle.
(Also... better retort to the full auto bolt carrier thing: What if LEOs want to throw them on auto lowers? They'll have to shell out the clams for a real 416. Something they wouldn't need to do with a Colt, or LMT, or BCM.)
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-14-11, 00:57
But why does it seem HK is exempt from what we beat down other manufacturers for?
They are not. If you look through my posts you will see I consistently criticize folks for their compulsion to trash guns--usually for the crime of not being the gun they currently own or desire. In fact, for months my signature line was "Your gun won't get worse because you fail to criticize someone else's" (and no offense taken :)).
(Also... better retort to the full auto bolt carrier thing: What if LEOs want to throw them on auto lowers? They'll have to shell out the clams for a real 416. Something they wouldn't need to do with a Colt, or LMT, or BCM.)
They should probably just buy a 416--they are cheaper anyway.
Magic_Salad0892
05-14-11, 03:48
They are not. If you look through my posts you will see I consistently criticize folks for their compulsion to trash guns--usually for the crime of not being the gun they currently own or desire. In fact, for months my signature line was "Your gun won't get worse because you fail to criticize someone else's" (and no offense taken :)).
Thanks for not taking offence, I usually come off as attacking in my responses. At least in person.
Still. I'd be irritated if Colt, or Knights did that. I mean, how would you feel if you, and a lot of other dudes were lusting over a Colt M4 clone, and they released that Colt HMG monstrosity (but with a flat top instead, and an untreaded barrel, and other stuff). I'm not just saying it because it's a HK (I usually love them), or a piston gun (I loved them at a time).
They should probably just buy a 416--they are cheaper anyway.
I still consider it a problem.
Wait. What?... How are factory 416s cheaper than the civi model?...
If by German proof marks you mean the New Hampshire state Capitol building in Concord NH, then yes.
This is made in NH with NH proof marks.
http://www.ronsaari.com/stockImages/newEngland/vermontCapitolBuilding.jpg
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-14-11, 12:11
Still. I'd be irritated if Colt, or Knights did that. I mean, how would you feel if you, and a lot of other dudes were lusting over a Colt M4 clone, and they released that Colt HMG monstrosity (but with a flat top instead, and an untreaded barrel, and other stuff). I'm not just saying it because it's a HK (I usually love them), or a piston gun (I loved them at a time).
I would tell them not to buy the Colt HBAR model if they don't want it. Colt makes various target sporters. HK just started making these things over here. They will make a different versions as time rolls on. No biggie. If you don't like hammer forged carbon steel barrels then I am sure they will be putting out some other variant soon enough. There are tons of Colt 6920s and Stags and Olympic arms and whatnot out there. Enjoy!
http://i54.tinypic.com/2ujkupf.jpg
I don't get it. HK does some stuff that we will never understand.
Cameron
Magic_Salad0892
05-14-11, 22:49
I would tell them not to buy the Colt HBAR model if they don't want it. Colt makes various target sporters. HK just started making these things over here. They will make a different versions as time rolls on. No biggie. If you don't like hammer forged carbon steel barrels then I am sure they will be putting out some other variant soon enough. There are tons of Colt 6920s and Stags and Olympic arms and whatnot out there. Enjoy!
I meant, like. If that was the only one they offered, but I see where you're going.
I have two 416s and still wanted this rifle, but I did not know it was 9 lbs. That is a nogo.
The unlined barrel - I can give them a pass on that. Why? It is good hard barrel steel.
I will stick with my SR15E3 for the weight savings. I am happy with DI.
I have a 10.4" 416 and I plan on picking up one of these to have the barrel cut to 14.5" and re-profiled. I would love to have an all HK setup with both an entry and mid-range upper.
The only turn off for me is the barrel profile. Normally I'd say "use your man hands", but given my 416 clocks in at 7lbs 7oz with optic, the MR556 weighing over 9lbs as-is seems a bit overkill. Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to put it through its paces, but picking my friend's up at the range and plinking for a little while made me notice the extra weight. (that should read: "I need to work my arms out more"...)
I paint all of my rifles, so the white lettering isn't a concern for me. I see how that would be a problem to some, though.
I run a boresnake through my rifles after each session. Unlined barrel is also a non-concern for me. I have plenty of hunting rifles with unlined barrels that I've put through rain, snow, and humid hunting seasons in Georgia and they're still going just fine.
I'm just glad HK are finally releasing a new rifle for the civilian market. No, it isn't exactly what I want, but it's a step in the right direction.
I'm excited to see what else they bring to the table in the future.
I have a 10.4" 416 and I plan on picking up one of these to have the barrel cut to 14.5" and re-profiled. I would love to have an all HK setup with both an entry and mid-range upper.
The only turn off for me is the barrel profile. Normally I'd say "use your man hands", but given my 416 clocks in at 7lbs 7oz with optic, the MR556 weighing over 9lbs as-is seems a bit overkill. Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to put it through its paces, but picking my friend's up at the range and plinking for a little while made me notice the extra weight. (that should read: "I need to work my arms out more"...)
I paint all of my rifles, so the white lettering isn't a concern for me. I see how that would be a problem to some, though.
I run a boresnake through my rifles after each session. Unlined barrel is also a non-concern for me. I have plenty of hunting rifles with unlined barrels that I've put through rain, snow, and humid hunting seasons in Georgia and they're still going just fine.
I'm just glad HK are finally releasing a new rifle for the civilian market. No, it isn't exactly what I want, but it's a step in the right direction.
I'm excited to see what else they bring to the table in the future.
I too have contemplated having my MR556 "tweaked". Granted, it would nix the warranty I'm sure but oh well.
Would the cold hammer forging present any problems with re-profiling?
I'm also thinking about getting it Melonite treated, but the barrel would have to be stripped. Anything I should be aware of to disassemble the MR556 to that degree?
Handled one in a local store and it didn't feel 9 lbs to me, but weight scales don't lie, I guess. I'd actually get one if I needed another AR, but I don't need one. It did feel well statically.
Cagemonkey
05-15-11, 09:08
Is Daniel Defense associated with this rifle? If so, they may be able to provide a solution to the barrel situation. I agree, that given time, HK should be able to rectify the weight/barrel issue. Unfortunately, time is not a definite thing given the political variables. If money were not an issue, I'd pick one up.
They should have just released the Norway configuration and been done with it.
We would of had a proper configuration and not have to buy a $4000 upper and do a Form 1.
leibermuster
05-15-11, 15:08
Come on guys, the weight builds muscles like Arnold, just be happy.
Hey the 308 is the real winner to get anyway.........
Would the cold hammer forging present any problems with re-profiling?
CHF barrels are profiled after forging (MR556 barrels are forged in Germany and profiled/finished in US), so it should be no problem.
Also owner from Finland reported to have barrel in his MR turned down to .650 under handguard and .625 in front (from memory - I can be wrong here, but I remember it was very radical profiling he used) with no problems.
30 cal slut
05-17-11, 07:08
My only complaint right now is that I don't have one in my hands to fingerbang and take to the range.
I would love to bitch about all the features of this after shooting it. :jester:
On a serious note, is there an ETA when HK will be selling uppers (and the accompanying lower parts) separately, if at all? There are some of us living behind enemy lines (NY, CT, MA) who can't purchase one without substantially modifying it (pin the stock, permanently attach a non-flash hider muzzle device :rolleyes: ). Separate uppers on a preban lower are the only way to go.
I will tell you a secret about MA. Register it as an SBR and you can have any stock and muzzle device.
Geeez, I hope I am not too late to the party. NOOB here with his first post.
I picked up an HK MR556 (Serial number 465) last week in preparation for Mr. Vicker's upcoming 2 day Carbine I course in PA in July, and I have it set up mostly as per his suggestions in his 2 DVD Carbine I and II set.
Just got the last component and mounted it last night, a Surefire X300. Have not even shot it yet! But plan to do so this weekend, zero it for 100M and practice the skills and etc. on the DVDs in preparation for the class. Here is a picture, any suggestions, critiques welcomed!
http://photos.imageevent.com/magdump/submachineguns/websize/HK%20MR%20556%20all%20set%20up_1.JPG
So did I buy a lemon here or what? I am new to the AR thing and had not heard anything bad about the HK MR556. I had a couple Bushmasters about a decade ago and liked them but sold them back then when my car died. I had been waiting since then to get a top-of-the line AR such as an LWRC or an HK or similar. When this came along, I figured it was time. So what is the deal? Is it inaccurate, will it break on me? I am not savvy yet obviously on all things AR so any advice deeply appreciated.
Chris T.
While I do think these things are incredibly overweight, I don't think many people would say this is a "lemon" in the true sense of the word. I have no doubt it will run great as every HK I've ever owned has, and if it feels comfortable in your hands that's really what matters.
30 cal slut
05-17-11, 07:44
I will tell you a secret about MA. Register it as an SBR and you can have any stock and muzzle device.
Interesting. I did not know that. :confused:
swiss_seth
05-17-11, 12:03
I will love it even more when I get my SBR paperwork back and get it cut down to 10.5 inch
Its crazy accurate with the ACOG too.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/swiss_seth/DSC00216.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/swiss_seth/DSC00215.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/swiss_seth/DSC00214.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/swiss_seth/DSC00212.jpg
Very nice! (Good call sitting it on a solid concrete foundation...)
(I keed, I keed!) :D
Which BUIS do you have installed?
swiss_seth
05-17-11, 20:17
GGG MAD BUIS and troy front
just got the sights today and its a tack driver
Here is the target, the lower right grouping is intentional too!
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/swiss_seth/98db0ebf.jpg
variablebinary
05-17-11, 21:20
I will love it even more when I get my SBR paperwork back and get it cut down to 10.5 inch
Its crazy accurate with the ACOG too.
Very nice!
While not the highest thing on my list of wants, I do want an MR556 with SBR upper.
I don't see a problem with a 9lb match grade RECCE-esque rifle with gas piston HK416 internals. :shrug:
It has a semi auto bolt carrier group and you can't put this upper on a FA lower. Also you can't put a 416 BCG into this.
swiss_seth
05-18-11, 09:29
I think someone mentioned the proof mark is for some bldg in CT but I don't think that's right
If anything it would be the county cap bldg in Columbus, GA. Which I think is Muskogee county...?
You guys all talk about the weight but I don't fine it too much personally
Plus I choose to use a 1911 and its heavy but I wouldnt choose any other pistol. That's my go to gun
There is absolutely no reason for a 16" barreled 5.56mm AR carbine to weigh as much as a 24" barreled .30-06 main battle rifle; slick, without optics or a light.
I think someone mentioned the proof mark is for some bldg in CT but I don't think that's right
If anything it would be the county cap bldg in Columbus, GA. Which I think is Muskogee county...?
You guys all talk about the weight but I don't fine it too much personally
Plus I choose to use a 1911 and its heavy but I wouldnt choose any other pistol. That's my go to gun
I don't think citing the fact that you use a 1911 as justification for the bulkiness of the HK is an apples to apples example, let alone relevant.
Heavy Metal
05-18-11, 11:39
There is absolutely no reason for a 16" barreled 5.56mm AR carbine to weigh as much as a 24" barreled .30-06 main battle rifle; slick, without optics or a light.
This isn't hate, it is the unvarnished truth^. I would like to hear a non-emotional rebuttal to it myself.
swiss_seth
05-18-11, 11:57
Like I said not trying to convince anyone
I have owned the colts, BCMs, bushy etc
And in my dreams of what I always wished a AR would be this HK is it
No emotion on my end just fact of how I feel
MichaelVain
05-18-11, 12:00
This iteration of the MR556, taken from HK's website...
A direct descendent of the HK416, the MR556A1 is a semi-automatic rifle developed by Heckler & Koch as a premium level commercial/civilian firearm with match rifle capability. Like the HK416, the MR556A1 is a major product improvement over conventional AR-type carbines and rifles.
It would seem that this barrel profile and non chrome lined is relevant to the phrase "with match rifle capability". Whether or not you agree with this iteration, it seems that is the reasoning.
If and when the next iteration comes out with a lighter profile barrel and chrome lining, I don't think "with match rifle capability" will be in the description.
swiss_seth
05-18-11, 12:10
I love how accurate it is and thats with my crappy eyes
Lol
Don't get me wrong, I am just stating my opinion.
Ther is no doubt in my mind that I will ever convince all the haters on this thread that this rifle is superior to a AR15 in every fashion, I have my Red HK koolaid and you have your Colt Blue koolaid!
I just know I love it with all off it's magnificent design and manufacturing etc
Haters please commence your hating, lol
Not about hate, just pointed out an ill conceived comparison. The fact is the gun in its current configuration weighs almost as much as an ultimax. I don't think it can be argued that when combined with features, this iteration of the 416 is inherently inefficient when compared to other carbines with a similar feature set and intended use. *I am not saying the gun is not a "quality" product, I have no doubt that HK builds these to a high standard as they do with most of their stuff, but that does not necessarily mean that the design is without flaw.*
swiss_seth
05-18-11, 12:17
I love how accurate it is and thats with my crappy eyes
Lol
I'm going to turn mine down to .750 throughout, minimum.
swiss_seth
05-18-11, 12:21
Where does the weight come into play?
I drive to my range and walk to my shooting station which is 10 yards away from my parking spot. Granted I am out of shape but the weight of the rifle isn't the problem its the 300 rounds of fiocchi and my other crap I carry to the range etc.
Sorry, I just don't get the weight thing
swiss_seth
05-18-11, 12:24
I'm going to turn mine down to .750 throughout, minimum.
If weight is making you crazy SBR it and turn the barrel
Good point
For me though this is too long like all civi m4gery types
Heavy Metal
05-18-11, 12:37
Where does the weight come into play?
I drive to my range and walk to my shooting station which is 10 yards away from my parking spot. Granted I am out of shape but the weight of the rifle isn't the problem its the 300 rounds of fiocchi and my other crap I carry to the range etc.
Sorry, I just don't get the weight thing
If your sole desire is to use it as a range toy, then weight isn't going to be much of an issue.
Where does the weight come into play?
I drive to my range and walk to my shooting station which is 10 yards away from my parking spot. Granted I am out of shape but the weight of the rifle isn't the problem its the 300 rounds of fiocchi and my other crap I carry to the range etc.
Sorry, I just don't get the weight thing
Just because you don't put your weapon to hard use doesn't mean that other prospective buyers are intending the same limited use that your weapon sees. Most people interested in this wanted a weapon as close as possible to the actual 416, and probably had more in mind for it than walking 10 yards and shooting off a bench. To take this kind of view and deflect all legitimate criticisms of the design in such a dismissive manner seems somewhat egocentric. If anything the fact that you only carry your rifle 10 yards to a bench makes it clear that you are not qualified to establish what the suitable general criteria for a 16 inch 416 clone are. While it may meet or exceed your requirements, the fact remains that at its current weight it does NOT meet the requirements nor expectations of many other users other than yourself.
swiss_seth
05-18-11, 12:46
Wow, If you are a LEO or this is a duty weapon get a department letter for an actual 416 or spend the extra cash for a actual 416 upper. For me the civi shooter this rifle is nirvana and I'm not talking about my qualifications I am letting the rifle speak for itself
There is no price that is too high for your life
Wow, If you are a LEO or this is a duty weapon get a department letter for an actual 416 or spend the extra cash for a actual 416 upper. For me the civi shooter this rifle is nirvana and I'm not talking about my qualifications I am letting the rifle speak for itself
There is no price that is too high for your life
I think you're missing my point, you are only qualified to discuss YOUR specific PERSONAL needs in a weapons system, not the needs or expectations of others. As a person who shoots from a bench 10 yards from their car (in your own words) you do not have a right to tell other people that 9.4 pounds is light enough for all their intended uses. This is like someone living in Paris saying that Vespa's are adequate for everyone's transportation needs. While it may sufficient for a Parisian, I don't think it would work very well Laramie Wyoming for instance. How are you qualified to tell a civilian who wants to take a carbine course or run 3 gun that he doesn't need a weapon lighter than 9.4 pounds? And as an aside an individual LEO can't order a F/A 416.
swiss_seth
05-18-11, 13:08
I agree 110 %
And this is why the good lord gave us the right to buy whatever weapon we want to use for whatever we want to use it for
swiss_seth
05-18-11, 14:10
Why is HK your finest example, over Knights E3, and LMT MWS guns, and how many other types of AR have you shot?
Colt, bushy and BCM are what I have owned and shot. As I have posted earlier
I cannot speak to nor have I mentioned the weapons you note. But if you're saying that I can compare this HK to another weapon and then say the HK is of a lower quality thats not going to happen. The HK build speaks for itself, it may have equals but I can't see that anything could be better built or more rock solid
Colt, bushy and BCM are what I have owned and shot. As I have posted earlier
I cannot speak to nor have I mentioned the weapons you note. But if you're saying that I can compare this HK to another weapon and then say the HK is of a lower quality thats not going to happen. The HK build speaks for itself, it may have equals but I can't see that anything could be better built or more rock solid
And the argument comes full circle. If you read my original post, you would see that I did not question whether or not HK built these with proper QC, materials etc. I questioned the viability of a 9.4lb gun in a serious role, when alternatives which are just as well built, if not more so, and have been vetted much more than the mr556 are available at a significantly lower weight and cost.
swiss_seth
05-18-11, 14:28
So we are back at go and as I said you are free to buy whatever weapon you want
And like I said many people won't find issue with the weight because of it's many other superior attributes
Army Chief
05-18-11, 14:30
Swiss Seth,
Change your signature line or it will be changed for you.
All,
Please continue to develop this discussion with the site's quality standards in mind.
AC
swiss_seth
05-18-11, 15:35
Okay, so now this thread is back
I changed my signature, if it's no good now I will just delete.
i would so buy one if they just did 2 things. Drop the price AT LEAST$500 and chrome line the barrel.
I think someone mentioned the proof mark is for some bldg in CT but I don't think that's right
If anything it would be the county cap bldg in Columbus, GA
I already said what it is. The NH Capitol building dome.
swiss_seth
05-18-11, 16:10
i would so buy one if they just did 2 things. Drop the price AT LEAST$500 and chrome line the barrel.
I agree the price is retarded, and while I am not convinced chrome is the end all be alibi woul have also like to see it with a chrome barrel
Crazy as it may sound HK raised the price by 10% recently. Figure that one out??
I can only think it has to do with inflation and the value of the dollar and that HK wants to make gobs of greenbacks
swiss_seth
05-18-11, 16:13
I already said what it is. The NH Capitol building dome.
Dude. You lost me. I don't think any HK 's are made in NH??? ( I could be wrong)
What are we miscommunicating here?
oh well. While i agree with statements that say that chrome lininng isn't necessary at all, even if thy were to drop the price $500, chrome lining should be a given. It would not adversely affect accuracy enough for a fighting rifle such as this. Maybe if this was a 26" barreled rifle that fires a cartridge capable of reaching out to 1200 yards, then yeah, chrome lining should not be used. It would also give people like me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
I was so excited when i heard that it was coming out, then i found out about the price point and the "features". I can safely say i have absolutely no interest in it anymore and am seriously thinking about picking up an sr15 instead.
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