View Full Version : Another AR15 KB on TOS. Why is it usually lower tier guns...
Eurodriver
04-30-11, 03:23
...if its ammo related?
Is it:
More RRA/DPMS/BM/etc in circulation than Colt/BCM/DD/etc?
Do top tier shooters generally make smarter ammo choices?
Do top tier weapons (5.56 chambers, milspec steel, FA carriers) stand up better to bad ammo?
Just trying to get an idea on why I can't recall hearing about half of a BCM upper receiver shredding away but it seems almost weekly another lower tier gun has blown up.
Is it even ammo related at all? You don't need an overpressured round if your rifle was built out of spec and the headspace has finally given enough to allow 58,000psi of hot gas to go somewhere other than down the barrel.
SWATcop556
04-30-11, 03:31
People who buy shit rifles buy shit ammo.
I'm not saying it can't happen to anyone but it's usually shit ammo or bubba's homebrew zombie killer tracer rounds.
Silver_2325
04-30-11, 03:36
One of the girls I work with, Capt. in the Army for a psy ops NG unit, had her Rock River at the range today and the bolt kept locking up in the forward position with a round chambered. Couldnt pull the trigger or move the selector switch. She had been letting a few other coworkers shoot it and tried to blame the malfunction on them at first. Funny stuff. I have never seen this happen before and that bolt was a son of a bitch to pull back and extract the trapped round. She is shooting ammo from Summit who I know nothing about. I told her it probably wasnt safe to shoot that rifle anymore so she stowed it. Monday I am going to have to let her know that rifle is garbage and it is time to get a new one.
SWATcop556
04-30-11, 03:46
Another major issue is people shooting 5.56 ammo in a .223 chamber. Most shit rifles have a .223 chamber regardless of their markings on the rifle or their claims of "mil-spec."
One of the girls I work with, Capt. in the Army for a psy ops NG unit, had her Rock River at the range today and the bolt kept locking up in the forward position with a round chambered. Couldnt pull the trigger or move the selector switch. She had been letting a few other coworkers shoot it and tried to blame the malfunction on them at first. Funny stuff. I have never seen this happen before and that bolt was a son of a bitch to pull back and extract the trapped round. She is shooting ammo from Summit who I know nothing about. I told her it probably wasnt safe to shoot that rifle anymore so she stowed it. Monday I am going to have to let her know that rifle is garbage and it is time to get a new one.
Summit? o.O Where do people find this stuff. Locally the most exotic ammo I've ever seen is black hills blue box.
Can't pull trigger or move selector sounds like a FCG problem. o.O Or the bolt isn't cocking the hammer.
wetidlerjr
04-30-11, 05:39
The K-Boom I read about on TOS was with recalled Winchester Ranger Law Enforcement 223 Remington 64 grain Power-Point ammo in an RRA. :cool:
I've read reports lately(last year, maybe longer) of some really shitty ammo from various manufacturers. EAG has even stopped allowing certain brands/variations in their classes. While the recent "kabooms" may be ammo related, like most things, it's probably a combination of stupidity that leads to the issues.
Good ammo discussion... (http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/180105097)
There was a guy at the LaRue 3-gun who had his JP (I think it was a JP) rifle go down due to ammo. I guess he went for a double tap and the first round was a squib, the second sealed the deal. He said that he rolled his own.
He was lucky that he didn't get hurt. The carrier was split in two inside the receiver, lots of carnage. I wish I would have taken a picture, but I think that would have been a jerk move...the guy was upset. The LaRue Stealth he bought on sight made him feel better though.
Starting to see a lot more AR's go down like that though.
The AR has become the "All American Rifle". Everyone has one. (Kinda like the .22)
Everyone is making them (to what standards?) and everyone owns one.
But unlike a .22 that won't blow-up with questionable ammo, I'm sure most owners figure the .223/5.56 ammo they purchase should work in their gun.
But unfortanetly, even reputable ammo makers are turning out some duds.:(
I'm sure they'll be many more stories of KB's.
Has nothing to do with "Tier" and everything to do with dangerously overloaded ammo....which would most likely have blown up a Colt or BCM as well.
The_War_Wagon
04-30-11, 11:04
People who buy shit rifles buy shit ammo.
I'm not saying it can't happen to anyone but it's usually shit ammo or bubba's homebrew zombie killer tracer rounds.
Uncle Dub's reloads, where his motto his - "If there's still room in the case, you ain't usin' enuff POWDER!!!" :rolleyes:
ICANHITHIMMAN
04-30-11, 11:33
One of the girls I work with, Capt. in the Army for a psy ops NG unit, had her Rock River at the range today and the bolt kept locking up in the forward position with a round chambered. Couldnt pull the trigger or move the selector switch. She had been letting a few other coworkers shoot it and tried to blame the malfunction on them at first. Funny stuff. I have never seen this happen before and that bolt was a son of a bitch to pull back and extract the trapped round. She is shooting ammo from Summit who I know nothing about. I told her it probably wasnt safe to shoot that rifle anymore so she stowed it. Monday I am going to have to let her know that rifle is garbage and it is time to get a new one.
Oh ya and there are no PSY OPS units in the NG only the RES and she was an officer that explains alot.
People who buy shit rifles buy shit ammo.
I'm not saying it can't happen to anyone but it's usually shit ammo or bubba's homebrew zombie killer tracer rounds.
I think it's this and the people who blow up nice rifles probably know why it blew up and are less likely to publicize it on the internet.
I personally know a guy that blew up an MRP upper because he was shooting some cheap reloads he got off a guy that was selling them because they were too hot.....
ICANHITHIMMAN
04-30-11, 11:51
I've read reports lately(last year, maybe longer) of some really shitty ammo from various manufacturers. EAG has even stopped allowing certain brands/variations in their classes. While the recent "kabooms" may be ammo related, like most things, it's probably a combination of stupidity that leads to the issues.
Good ammo discussion... (http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/180105097)
Thanks for this link it was good info
There are far more of the economy and sport/hobby guns than the better. Not unexpectedly, they will be seen more in problem stats.
Overcharged rounds and shooting into a bore obstructions will destroy even the best guns. The better guns/components are more likely to survive threshold events, however.
Shooting 5.56 ammo in a .223 is a bad choice, but produces accelerated wear, stoppages and malfunctions, and small parts breakage rather than catastrophic destruction (kB!) of the gun.
Over the last few years, manufacturers have been cranking out ammo and at a furious pace, and issues have become more frequent. What was once squarely in the domain of the low-end and gun show reloaders is now in the mainstream.
DirectDrive
04-30-11, 20:37
The OP indicated that this was an ammo-caused event and posted the Winchester recall notice.
http://www.winchester.com/library/news/Pages/News-ProductWarningandRecall.aspx
There are apparently other events associated with these bad lots of ammo.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/03/04/winchester-5-56-ammunition-recall/
One of the girls I work with, Capt. in the Army for a psy ops NG unit, had her Rock River at the range today and the bolt kept locking up in the forward position with a round chambered. Couldnt pull the trigger or move the selector switch. She had been letting a few other coworkers shoot it and tried to blame the malfunction on them at first. Funny stuff. I have never seen this happen before and that bolt was a son of a bitch to pull back and extract the trapped round. She is shooting ammo from Summit who I know nothing about. I told her it probably wasnt safe to shoot that rifle anymore so she stowed it. Monday I am going to have to let her know that rifle is garbage and it is time to get a new one.
You're going to recommend that she scrap an entire rifle because of a single type of malfunction, caused by a type of ammo that most of us have likely never heard of?
:sarcastic:
Don't think that I'm taking this too seriously or are otherwise trying to knock you, but bad call amigo.
Inkslinger
04-30-11, 20:57
Good article on American Eagle taking out a Stag and LMT.
http://www.thegunzone.com/stag15_lc.html
Yep last one was a Noveske with a blended pistol /rifle powder reload I do believe!! I don't care where it's on the tier that would blow any rifle!:eek: I do believe they were also SBR's -seems like the shorties like to blow!:rolleyes:
One of the girls I work with, Capt. in the Army for a psy ops NG unit, had her Rock River at the range today and the bolt kept locking up in the forward position with a round chambered. Couldnt pull the trigger or move the selector switch. She had been letting a few other coworkers shoot it and tried to blame the malfunction on them at first. Funny stuff. I have never seen this happen before and that bolt was a son of a bitch to pull back and extract the trapped round. She is shooting ammo from Summit who I know nothing about. I told her it probably wasnt safe to shoot that rifle anymore so she stowed it. Monday I am going to have to let her know that rifle is garbage and it is time to get a new one.
While RRA rifles may not be the best, my agency has been using them for almost 10 years with thousands of rounds down range with no problems whatsoever. We have 14 of the CAR UTE models.
elephantrider
04-30-11, 22:21
One of the girls I work with, Capt. in the Army for a psy ops NG unit, had her Rock River at the range today and the bolt kept locking up in the forward position with a round chambered. Couldnt pull the trigger or move the selector switch. She had been letting a few other coworkers shoot it and tried to blame the malfunction on them at first. Funny stuff. I have never seen this happen before and that bolt was a son of a bitch to pull back and extract the trapped round. She is shooting ammo from Summit who I know nothing about. I told her it probably wasnt safe to shoot that rifle anymore so she stowed it. Monday I am going to have to let her know that rifle is garbage and it is time to get a new one.
Why not give the rifle a close inspection and function check before pitching it? Maybe try it with some known quality ammo?
Silver_2325
04-30-11, 23:46
While RRA rifles may not be the best, my agency has been using them for almost 10 years with thousands of rounds down range with no problems whatsoever. We have 14 of the CAR UTE models.
It could be a number of problems repeated over the 4 years she has owned the rifle. Poor ammunition, poor maintenance, etc...
Could be as simple as replacing the BCG, I have no idea because I am far from an expert on the reason why rifles mechanically fail like that. All I know is that it took a good bit of my strength to get the charging handle pulled back and the round extracted and I am not a little dude. The same situation happened 4 times during the 2.5 hours we were shooting and the shooters only went through 3 or 4 magazines. That isnt normal.
christcorp
05-01-11, 00:46
This is why I feel comfortable shooting my MFS, Silver Bear, and Barnaul ammo for my plinking ammo. And while I'm comfortable shooting it in my M&P15. Never had an issue with my trusty ammo at $3.75-$4.80 a box, and my M&P15 will literally shoot anything you feed it. Peace of mind: Priceless.
DirectDrive
05-01-11, 10:06
After all the "analysis" in this thread........
To the new guy reading along, know your weapon and know your ammo.
One of the girls I work with, Capt. in the Army for a psy ops NG unit, had her Rock River at the range today and the bolt kept locking up in the forward position with a round chambered. Couldnt pull the trigger or move the selector switch. She had been letting a few other coworkers shoot it and tried to blame the malfunction on them at first. Funny stuff. I have never seen this happen before and that bolt was a son of a bitch to pull back and extract the trapped round. She is shooting ammo from Summit who I know nothing about. I told her it probably wasnt safe to shoot that rifle anymore so she stowed it. Monday I am going to have to let her know that rifle is garbage and it is time to get a new one.
Box it up and send it to RRA for work. Alternatively, take it to an armorer or smith knowledgeable and experienced in the AR system.
PdxMotoxer
05-01-11, 14:36
i'm going to agree with the crap ammo or WE ALL know a few that are "lacking" that common sense gene
and then to think a few of those feel they "rock" at reloading their own ammo.
If they can't be bothered to research the weapon they are going to be shooting
How much research are they doing in their reloading supplies.
i'm just sayin.....
I buy bulk lake city and had a deal too good to pass up for a couple cases
of PMC Brass ammo and so far so good. ;)
as for the zombie killing exploding tip or tracer rounds i see it being sold all over the net.
I know a few sites but not going to tell.
(if you want that crap you have to google it yourself... i won't be part
of spreading that stuff around) :p
Mr. Goodtimes
05-01-11, 15:00
I think it has to do with the fact that generally people who purchase BCM, DD, Colt, LMT, Noveske, KAC are generally pretty smart people with enough brain cells to not only buy a good rifle but properly reload ammo.
Another AR15 KB on TOS. Why is it usually lower tier guns...
Could it simply be that the majority of guns out there are what you refer to as lower tier guns??
The majority of catastrophic failures in ARs are ammunition related.
I never thought of that particular ammo listed (in the ops thread) to be considered "lower tier ammo". Actually that ammo is some that I personally have recommended many times and I know many that (did) use that exact ammo as their "goto" ammo.
Seems any tier weapon would kaboom just as quick as that Rock River rifle did. I mostly shoot Noveske and BCM weapons, but bad ammo will take out any weapon, regardless of "tier".
Sorry, I'm new. What's TOS? I get the kb tho!
ETA - google is my friend. Disregard.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=892557
Lmao.
Just trying to get an idea on why I can't recall hearing about half of a BCM upper receiver shredding away but it seems almost weekly another lower tier gun has blown up.
How many rifles from BCM are in circulation in comparison to ALL the other "low tier" rifles? There's an assload of assholes on TOS with a lot of rifles, and many of them are all too willing to post about any and everything that happens related to their guns. I'm sure one or more users on this site have had a catastrophic failure, but didn't make a post about it.
How does your average BCM owner compare to your average Bushmaster owner when it comes to knowledge of ammunition/reloading, maintenance, operation, etc.?
The lower grade rifles have a myriad of issues. But if one of the ****ers literally explodes, I don't think all the blame will be on the rifle unless there is some evidence for poor manufacturing being the cause.
I don't spend any time on TOS, (***ANECDOTE AND SMALL SAMPLE SIZE WARNING***) but the few catastrophic failures I've seen in person were ammo related and in "top tier" rifles and handguns. They were usually traced back to a reloading ****-up or possible extreme bullet setback.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.