Roggio Arsenal Nightmare

[broseidon615]

BLUF: Think TWICE about Roggio Arsenal's AR15s before purchase.

After weeks of attempting to guide my friend in the right direction for his first AR purchase (I told him to get a BCM mid length with a Spikes lower), he decided to trade in his two shotguns for an AR near his dad's location. First glance at the Roggio it seemed decent but some immediate "WTFs?" came up. The biggest immediate thing noticeable was that the castlenut did not have any stake indents for the endplate to be securely staked....ok...no biggie, get a new endplate, or put some locktite on it and drive on. However, the biggest issue was my friend could NOT zero his rifle, and the rifle was shooting way to the right. Even with the windage knob moved all the way, he still could not zero his rifle. I figured maybe the detachable carrying handle was whack, so I tried to put my ARMS 40L-SP sight on to his rifle. to my surprise it would not even fit. The ARMS sight requires you to slide it on the rail, but the cut on the flat top receiver was too thick and could not clear the sight. later on, using a digital caliper, we were able to see that the cut on the flat top receiver was inconsistent and not made to spec. My theory is that it allowed the rear sight to be canted and causing zero issues. A HUGE FUBAR that fell through Roggio's Quality Check.:eek:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x213/jyro89/CIMG1452.jpg
Castlenut issues...my BCM on the right
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x213/jyro89/CIMG1465.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x213/jyro89/CIMG1469.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x213/jyro89/theory.png

In addition to those issues, the Roggio lower had a hard time with fit with Pmags (gen 1 and 2), and Lancer Mags. fed USGI fine. Although some might consider this a "who cares?", it is a bit of an issue when you can't properly use all the mags readily available out there.
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x213/jyro89/CIMG1463.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x213/jyro89/CIMG1462.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x213/jyro89/CIMG1461.jpg

However, when I did open up the roggio, I was a bit impressed to see that the bolt carrier group was a M16 carrier, and the bolt was MPI inspected. and the barrel was a 1/7 twist. not bad, but that still can not make up for the other issues

Fortunately my friend got his money and shotgun back. It seems he learned the "buy once, cry once" lesson now, and says he's going to get a BCM instead.

[SWATcop556]

I'll hold back my shock. :suicide:

[ohiorifleman]

Unless I am totally mistaken the only thing Roggio on that rifle would be the lower.- I only ever heard of them making stripped lowers and they had some huge QC issues including undersized magwells and mis-aligned receiver ext. threads which I believe caused them to go under. My guess is that whole rifle is a assemblage of the cheapest parts someone could find lucky he walked away from it.....

[broseidon615]

Unless I am totally mistaken the only thing Roggio on that rifle would be the lower.- I only ever heard of them making stripped lowers and they had some huge QC issues including undersized magwells and mis-aligned receiver ext. threads which I believe caused them to go under. My guess is that whole rifle is a assemblage of the cheapest parts someone could find lucky he walked away from it.....

http://www.roggioarsenalusa.com/index_files/Page537.htm
Roggio does make complete firearms, and complete uppers

[broseidon615]

To make matters worse, the gunstore owner was a complete dumbf*ck.

he preceded to tell me that there aren't any standards for picatiny rails. Thinks Colt is a stupid company, tried to push a bushmaster as top of the line AR....then said that no one uses iron sights on ARs anyways....:rolleyes:, and didn't even want to acknowledge there was an issue with the rifle.... when I emailed him the post above, he simply said that "he's a working man, he has no time for emails"

Overall, the guy was a scmuck, and really just tried to rip my friend off.

[The_War_Wagon]

Didn't they go out of business already? :confused:

[Spiffums]

Well this is a new maker on me. I hadn't heard of them before. Probably a good sign right there.

[Suwannee Tim]

I go to Roggio's web site and follow the Map To Location (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?source=ig&hl=en&ie=UTF8&split=0&msa=0&msid=100474164291797717474.0004608aa58331ca3aa48&ll=35.078696,-78.935738&spn=0.006848,0.013947&z=17) link to Google and look at 822 Shannon Drive, a small low building. Roggio's interior photo (http://www.roggioarsenalusa.com/index_files/Page378.htm) shows a large building with at least a twenty foot ceiling and seemingly enough machine tools to turn out hundreds of ARs a day. Yet nobody has ever heard of them. Very strange.

[eternal24k]

Didn't they go out of business already? :confused:

thats what I thought.
Also remember some of their lowers having the finish come right off with brake cleaner

[Lumpy196]

What THE hell is a Roggio Arsenal??

[KAC Lover]

I thought this thread was about an Italian guy with an AK. Sticking with BCM/LMT/Other known quantities is the way to go.

[markm]

What THE hell is a Roggio Arsenal??

And NEVER trust someone who has a name ending in "I" or "O".

Ironically the OP's AVATAR could have saved him from a lot of ass ache. ;)

[broseidon615]

And NEVER trust someone who has a name ending in "I" or "O".

Ironically the OP's AVATAR could have saved him from a lot of ass ache. ;)

I guess you didn't read the OP....this was not my rifle

[markm]

I guess you didn't read the OP....this was not my rifle

Sorry... I missed that! ;) I just jumped into the pics/descriptions!

[broseidon615]

Regardless if Roggio is in business or not, there rifles are roaming around somewhere. for my friend, he found it at some scrub gun shop in bumf*ck nowhere..The gun owner also said he has 50 of them in the back...and that he ordered them from Roggio not too long ago....So the point of this thread was, if for some reason a Roggio comes across someone that has what seems like an excellent price, to save their money and walk out the door.

[markm]

No doubt. There's a lot of pitfalls in the AR realm for a guy who buys without researching first. And a lot of guys (like this one) don't listen anyway.

[Beat Trash]

To make matters worse, the gunstore owner was a complete dumbf*ck.

he preceded to tell me that there aren't any standards for picatiny rails. Thinks Colt is a stupid company, tried to push a bushmaster as top of the line AR....then said that no one uses iron sights on ARs anyways....:rolleyes:, and didn't even want to acknowledge there was an issue with the rifle.... when I emailed him the post above, he simply said that "he's a working man, he has no time for emails"

Overall, the guy was a scmuck, and really just tried to rip my friend off.

Whenever I'm in a gun shop that I've never been to before, I will ask questions about what I'm looking at to get a feel of the response. I have no issue if the answer is, "I'm not sure, or I don't have any personal experience with that product." If the sales person uses slander, or starts to bash a product in order to sell me what he currently has in stock, then I turn and walk out the door. Quickly.

My favorite gun shop is owned by two guys who are low pressure salesmen. They try to sell new customers what the customer wants. I the customer asks for advice, they give it. But only after asking some basic questions as to experience, and intended usage. It's rare they have a dissatisfied customer.

They've created a good business over the years due to a loyal customer base.

Your friend got screwed by the same type of individual who 100 yrs ago would be selling snake oil to little old ladies. Unfortunately, too many first time buyers go to gun shops like this.

[Suwannee Tim]

And NEVER trust someone who has a name ending in "I" or "O".....

I didn't say it 'yall!


.....Sticking with BCM/LMT/Other known quantities is the way to go.

Now how's Guido supposed to learn the machine work trade is no one buys his stuff?

[KAC Lover]

I didn't say it 'yall!



Now how's Guido supposed to learn the machine work trade is no one buys his stuff?

Needs more hair gel and a roid rage then we'll be getting somewhere.

[bo-hoss]

Roggio did no machining in house. They used a machine shop in NC who had 0 experience with arms manufacturing. Most of the lowers we ran across here at work were out of spec. It appears little to no QC was performed on the parts prior to release.

[broseidon615]

Roggio did no machining in house. They used a machine shop in NC who had 0 experience with arms manufacturing. Most of the lowers we ran across here at work were out of spec. It appears little to no QC was performed on the parts prior to release.

So are they still around or no?

[bo-hoss]

So are they still around or no?

I do not think they are in business anymore. Too many bad parts and too much bad press.

[.45fmjoe]

And NEVER trust someone who has a name ending in "I" or "O".


http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad264/45fmjoe/Asshattery/squint.gif

[Evil Colt 6920]

Wow what a piece of junk. I dont understand why "our friends" dont listen:confused: I've steered two close friends in the right direction on their first AR purchases... both decided to listen to the guy selling the rifle :suicide: They ended up with lower tier weapons with even lower tier optics/rails/etc. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it"

[DragonDoc]

Count your blessings. I bought a lower receiver from Dury's in San Antonio (at the 2009 price of $125) only to find out the the thing was machined out of spec and wouldn't take any uppers/ I sent an email to Roggio's and they told me to send the lower back to them. Well I did and that was two years ago ago. No lower and no money back. They don't return emails and their answering machine is full. Some of our forum brothers have gone by there for me and report the place is defunct. I can't believe how much of their crap is still out there for sell. The fact that your friend walked away from the deal no worse for wear was very fortunate. I advise everyone to run the other way when they see Roggio Arsenal wares.

[broseidon615]

Wow what a piece of junk. I dont understand why "our friends" dont listen:confused: I've steered two close friends in the right direction on their first AR purchases... both decided to listen to the guy selling the rifle :suicide: They ended up with lower tier weapons with even lower tier optics/rails/etc. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it"

I know what you mean, I was preaching to him about BCM....but he went with the POS roggio....fortunately he got refunded, and he's on the right track to get what he should have gotten in the first place.

Overall, I think he learned a valuable lesson about the Buy Once theory.

I think more than Roggio, was the scmuck of a gun store owner who got him there in the first place.

[broseidon615]

Count your blessings. I bought a lower receiver from Dury's in San Antonio (at the 2009 price of $125) only to find out the the thing was machined out of spec and wouldn't take any uppers/ I sent an email to Roggio's and they told me to send the lower back to them. Well I did and that was two years ago ago. No lower and no money back. They don't return emails and their answering machine is full. Some of our forum brothers have gone by there for me and report the place is defunct. I can't believe how much of their crap is still out there for sell. The fact that your friend walked away from the deal no worse for wear was very fortunate. I advise everyone to run the other way when they see Roggio Arsenal wares.

that sucks :mad:, you know in an industry where the end user has a lot of political and emotional investment in the hobby, its aggrivating to see there are schmucks like that.

[Suwannee Tim]

This is one large advantage of using the good 'ole credit card. If the Brand X whatever is junk, put it in dispute. It doesn't even have to be Brand X. I bought a British air rifle, well regarded brand from a reputable dealer. It was not accurate. I sent it back, got no response. I called, got no answer. Put it in dispute. Lovely thing about American Express. They know who their customer is and it ain't the merchant. I've done two disputes in 25 years, both were held for me.

[warlord260]

This is one large advantage of using the good 'ole credit card. If the Brand X whatever is junk, put it in dispute. It doesn't even have to be Brand X. I bought a British air rifle, well regarded brand from a reputable dealer. It was not accurate. I sent it back, got no response. I called, got no answer. Put it in dispute. Lovely thing about American Express. They know who their customer is and it ain't the merchant. I've done two disputes in 25 years, both were held for me.

I am big into Home Theater, electronics, and yes put everything on a CC. Has saved my butt many times. Back charge works!

[interfan]

And NEVER trust someone who has a name ending in "I" or "O".

:angry:

[KAC Lover]

:angry:

I'd trust Manuela Arcuri even though her name ends in "i" ;)

[Suwannee Tim]

:angry:

We're just kidding interfan! Can you tell me you don't talk shit about people whose names end in a k, s or an m?:D

[JSantoro]

How's about we get past that little piece of dumb, based solely on the fact that people with vowels at the end of their name hold TS-SCI and/or DOE-Q clearances?

And the fact that one of the biggest security breaches in our recent history was conducted by a guy named Hannsen?

Yeah, "misplaced" vowels lead to out-of-spec lower receivers. You yahoos....

[interfan]

We're just kidding interfan! Can you tell me you don't talk shit about people whose names end in a k, s or an m?:D

Of course. All in good fun

[wetidlerjr]

How's about we get past that little piece of dumb, based solely on the fact that people with vowels at the end of their name hold TS-SCI and/or DOE-Q clearances?

Hey ! I heard the same thing at the gun shop.

Yeah, "misplaced" vowels lead to out-of-spec lower receivers...

You mean they don't ? :confused:


On topic: This was a "You can lead a horse to water..." deal for the OP.
I can relate as I saw (after the fact) a good friend trade a Colt S70 Gold Cup for a POS AR that wasn't worth $500. He had bought the Gold Cup from me for a $1000. :blink:

[Ryan S.]

So are they still around or no?

Riggio went out of business back in 2009. They produced a lot of junk and had many people's lowers in for repair/exchange when all communications stopped. Since there are so many people posting about this back then (on ARFCOM) I stopped by their shop and they had eviction notice posted on the building and the shop looked abandoned. Like many AR brands/manufactors they made very little, many parts were from decent vendors that supply other manufactors. Two NC machine shops did other work for them, one local to them and I think one in Sanford, NC. Timberwolf Tactical was born after Riggio went under and they lasted 6 months or so. I'm not sure if there was similar ownership but both ventures shared most of the same employees. Timberwolf has the same issues. The SS lower parts were marketed even after they went under under their name and others are still out there. I think they are actually a pot metal. Both had the same story on the lowers at least (which a machine shop that otherwise was not experienced in firearms construction at the time made for them), it was either good when you got it and its still good or was bad out of the box and its still bad. Riggios lowers still pop up b/c that was during the scare and many of them were bought as investments, for future use, etc. By the time Timberwolf was born you could buy lowers but but there was only the $89 groupbuy spikes, rest of market was still in $125 area. They hit all the NC shows and you could buy a lower from them for $59. They sold a ton of them. The ones I saw physically looked OK and the people I know that have them are all good to go, I have just read or heard they had similar to Riggio issues. I have friends that bought them 10, 20 at a time.