View Full Version : Comments on a gun safe for AR
I am planning on buying a gun safe. Currently, I am looking at Dicks sporting goods. They have a Field and Stream 32 gun model for $699 on sale. This safe is 29½" wide. I want it fireproof and under 32" wide. I am planning on building it into a closet above the basement stairs.
Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
Don't know if I'd build it in at the top of the stairs. In a fire it could fall to the ground below so it's best for a safe to be right at ground level and maybe even on an exterior wall where the fire won't be as intense - which will give more protection to the valuables inside.
Thats a very good point from the above poster, I too want some advice for a good fireproof safe. I know theres no such thing as a burglar proof safe but the more I can inconvenience the burglar the better.
One thing to consider for ARs is they are SHORT! When I went from my standard A2 20" to a collapsed stock carbine (16") it no longer "fits" in the rack. Not a huge deal as it sit near the door for frequent trips "outside".
Other than that, get heavy and get big. Never can have too much room. I ran out pretty quick. Those things like to multiply in the dark.
Also sometimes the stairs cannot stand the weight of a good safe, may want to consider a ground floor as even safe companies charge "per stair" to move it in. They charge quite a bit to do move-in sometimes.
Whiskey_Bravo
05-02-11, 15:11
Yep, always get as big as you can and as big as you can afford. I filled mine up almost as soon as I got it and now I am needing to get a second one.
Also, pay attention to the thickness(or better yet, thinness) of the steel being used. Most safes are 12 gauge or thinner, and are no thicker on the door than on the walls. They are getting a good portion of their weight from the sheet rock they are using for fire material.
the AMSEC BF6032 is a great safe, just more expensive than the ones at Dick's.
It may or may not help you but I finally settled on one last week & I'm waiting on delivery of a Liberty Centurion Fat Boy. It's a solid safe for a decent price (they had a $200 off of it too, plus a mail in rebate for another $50 or so), imo. There are better out there for sure, but this will do for me - for now.
Regarding placing it at ground level, the negative is more moisture. My home is a ranch house, the safe above the stairs would be at "ground level" with respect to the front of the house. My basement is 75% dirt floor and I don't really want to put a safe with thousands of dollars worth of guns and jewelry down there. I felt like If I bought the safe first and built the place for it I could avoid someone trying to cut into it from the sides or rear.
As a Structural Engineer, my advice is: If you put your safe in the house and your house does not have a slab-on-grade foundation, hire a Professional Engineer to determine how to reinforce your floor.
Don't just get a couple of screw jacks and figure you can do it yourself. Seek professional assistance...
A 32"x24" fireproof safe can easily weigh 900 pounds, empty. Add 200 lbs. in guns, jewelery, and important papers, and the weight on your floor is now over 200 pounds per square foot. Your residential floor is designed for 40 pounds per square foot.
Good luck,
~Dan
Regarding placing it at ground level, the negative is more moisture. My home is a ranch house, the safe above the stairs would be at "ground level" with respect to the front of the house. My basement is 75% dirt floor and I don't really want to put a safe with thousands of dollars worth of guns and jewelry down there. I felt like If I bought the safe first and built the place for it I could avoid someone trying to cut into it from the sides or rear.
You can put a dehumidifier inside it if moisture is a concern.
Is this for modern construction? My floor joists are 2x12's and span across an I-beam running down the center of my basement. My actual floor is 2x8 planks - the house was built before the advent of plywood. I built my safe out of 1/4" mild steel plate - its 72"x28"x18" and has been sitting in my closet for almost 2 years.
A large man standing feet together could easily produce a pressure of 200 lb/sq ft. Hell I could stand on my tip toes and create 200 lb/ sq. inch
As a Structural Engineer, my advice is: If you put your safe in the house and your house does not have a slab-on-grade foundation, hire a Professional Engineer to determine how to reinforce your floor.
Don't just get a couple of screw jacks and figure you can do it yourself. Seek professional assistance...
A 32"x24" fireproof safe can easily weigh 900 pounds, empty. Add 200 lbs. in guns, jewelery, and important papers, and the weight on your floor is now over 200 pounds per square foot. Your residential floor is designed for 40 pounds per square foot.
Good luck,
~Dan
I got this one for around $400 at Gander Mountain. It claims that it holds 16. It also has a shelf at the top for hand guns or other misc. items. I love the digital lock on it..makes getting into the safe very fast and easy (but still secure). I don't think it's fire proof though...
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81n8d4eyo1L._AA1500_.jpg
http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Stack_On_16_Gun_Security_Safe_with_Electronic_Lock&i=415318&r=view&aID=510L1&cvsfa=2586&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=343135333138&cID=GSHOP_415318
Just a little nugget, but I wouldnt buy anything that had a battery powered look. Get something with a spinning combo.
Carnut,
There is a lot of good info. on gun safes on a site called Thehighroad.org. I think you'll find that many gun safes are not much more than a locking cabinet that might slow someone down during a burglary. You'll have to decide what you want to spend on a "safe" and it's intended purpose. I ended up buying an AMSEC like the above poster with 90 minutes of fire protection that is bolted to a basement floor with a dehumidifier inside. It was about twice the price of the one at Dick's.
Eric
If you poke around the inside of many safes, ($1,000 or less) you'll find the "fireproof" material is actually 5/8" firecode sheetrock with a fabric glued to it for appearance. I needed a second "safe" for those lower end guns that wouldn't fit in the big one. I got a metal job box and lined the interior w/ 2 layers of 5/8" FC SR. OK, it's not as good as a big hunkin safe, but sure beats having those .22's and miss. ammo sitting out for the casual thief. The job box will probably slow them down enough so it's not worth hanging around to see if they have to worry more about the owner or the dog :eek:
Most of the safes mentioned in this thread are decent choices. They are actually Residential Security Containers, not safes. They will thwart the neighborhood kid breaking in and make it tougher on a real burglar. They are however pretty thin steel and can be battered, cut or pried open with standard burglar equipment. Definitely bolt them down or all bets are off.
I had a great local option - Drake Safes, from Roxboro, NC. It cost me more (around 1400 for 20 guns) but it is a real SAFE. Thick Steel plate and quality mechanical locks. Greg Drake is a great guy, he delivered and bolted it in himself. He makes them right here in NC.
Here is a picture of one -
http://www.dryesgunshop.com/featured/drakesafes.html
I realize I sound like a fanboy but the safe is high quality and Mr. Drake was a solid fellow. I feel confident that my stuff will be right where I left it when I come home and that was worth the extra dough for me.
My home is a newer two story one and the safe guys told me they wouldn't want to put it upstairs, due to structural issues, even though we opted for the heavier framing. Might have someone check out your home, as previously mentioned, to see if it would work for you.
Is this for modern construction? My floor joists are 2x12's and span across an I-beam running down the center of my basement. My actual floor is 2x8 planks - the house was built before the advent of plywood. I built my safe out of 1/4" mild steel plate - its 72"x28"x18" and has been sitting in my closet for almost 2 years.
A large man standing feet together could easily produce a pressure of 200 lb/sq ft. Hell I could stand on my tip toes and create 200 lb/ sq. inch
Yeah, and my cat puts about 1000 psf on my chest when she jumps up on me... ;)
The 40 psf design floor live load has been around since the early days of the Uniform Building Code, back in the '60s.
The load carrying capacity of your floor depends on a number of factors, such as the spacing of your 2x12s (12, 16, 19.2, or 24"?), the span between supports (4', 8', 12'?), the grade of wood (DF-L#2, SPF#2, HemFir?), the size of your supporting I-beams (W8, W10, W12, wt per ft in those series?) the span of the steel beams, the steel grade used in the I-beams (is it A36?), the columns holding up said beams, the footings supporting said columns, etc., etc., etc.
If you want to trust your floor to "it's always worked before," fine by me. Personally, I'd have it checked so you don't have to drag your safe out of the crawlspace if it falls through someday.
Why risk owning a Stag floor when a top-tier floor is within easy reach? :D
~Dan
Now I am looking at the Cannon Scout series. It is the biggest safe I have looked at so far. If I buy it, I will need to put it in the garage. My house is 60 years old. It was built as a 2 BR, 1 BA home. I added a bedroom above a 20 by 23 garage last year. I can put the safe in the garage and bolt it down. Negatives are, the garage has a picture window and in nice weather the garage door is sometimes open. People I would rather not have know there is a safe, will be able to see it by looking in. I also do not have inside access to this garage. It is under my bedroom, but to get to it you need to go outside.
I just bought one from Costco. If you get a chance and your a member of Costco go check it out. I'm extremely pleased with it. I honestly didn't want to spend more than $500 bucks and after looking for a while I realized I wasn't going to get a decent one for that price point.
Until i found this one at Costco. It was $499 and it's advertised as an executive 26 gun safe with 13.10 Cubic ft of internal storage. It has an electronic keypad which is nice. But it also has a key to open it in case you either forget the combination or just want to use keys instead. It's also Fire and Water Proof, I don't remember what the time limites were though.
It sit's in my home office which is in my basement. It's pretty damn heavy and it was quite a bit of a chore to bring down. But I only had one of my other friends help me with it.
One thing I added was LED lights inside. I found these really nice LED lights that had a wireless control switch that I just sticky mounted to the outside of the safe. Works great.
Pics for your enjoyment.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/dimaguila1/IMG_6364.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/dimaguila1/IMG_6363.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/dimaguila1/IMG_6365.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/dimaguila1/IMG_6371.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/dimaguila1/IMG_6372.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/dimaguila1/IMG_6368.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/dimaguila1/IMG_6370.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/dimaguila1/IMG_6366.jpg
It looks like a great safe at a great price. What is the fire rating? I like the pistol holsters on the door. I looked at a Winchester safe that had that feature. I bought a Cannon safe. It is on the back of my truck right now. I bought it on sale from Tractor Supply Co for $799. It looks like this http://www.cannonsafe.com/series/cannon/c33.html
J will put in my integral garage which was built in 2010. (for now).
The website says it has a 60 minute fire rating, but I am prety sure it says 30 minutes on the safe.
I think mines about the same fire rating...something like 30 minutes.
That Cannon safe is really nice, congrats. At the end of the day I really didn't need anything to big anyways. I also had a very specific location I wanted it in and measurements needed to be just right. I've got a shotgun that's not in those pictures and will probably pick up another handgun or two down the road. maybe another AR but that's about it.
Like I said, I wanted to stick around the $500 price range and all the other safes I've found out there just didn't have the same quality as the one I bought. Actually if I compare the specs on the one I bought to comparable ones I was looking at close to $1000 +. So I think I did good. :big_boss:
Lotus1 where did you find the LED sticky lights? I could think of a few places around my house where those would be handy.
As a Structural Engineer, my advice is: If you put your safe in the house and your house does not have a slab-on-grade foundation, hire a Professional Engineer to determine how to reinforce your floor.
Don't just get a couple of screw jacks and figure you can do it yourself. Seek professional assistance...
A 32"x24" fireproof safe can easily weigh 900 pounds, empty. Add 200 lbs. in guns, jewelery, and important papers, and the weight on your floor is now over 200 pounds per square foot. Your residential floor is designed for 40 pounds per square foot.
Good luck,
~Dan
This ^
Lotus1 where did you find the LED sticky lights? I could think of a few places around my house where those would be handy.
I got the LED lights from Sams Club. I really like them. It came with 2 strips of LED's and the sticky wall mount remote control. Takes AA batteries.
I got the LED lights from Sams Club. I really like them. It came with 2 strips of LED's and the sticky wall mount remote control. Takes AA batteries.
Thanks very much. I'll have to see if I can find some.
I have a Liberty Lincoln 34 Gun Safe and love it. Many of the comments above are right on:
-Put it on a concrete floor
-Buy a dehumidifyer for inside the safe
-Bigger is better
-Dial lock only, stay away from the e-locks
-Ensure shipping includes set up in your desired location
-Know what fire rating you are getting (both temp and duration)
-Internal lights let you see your stuff
I got it off the back of the truck and into place at the bottom of the basement stairs. It is on concrete(Most of my basement has a dirt floor). I think this is a relatively good location for it. The negative is it can be seen from a basement window. I need to wire in an outlet and an overhead light. Here are pictures of it in place. It is still on the pallet.
I got it off the back of the truck and into place at the bottom of the basement stairs. It is on concrete(Most of my basement has a dirt floor). I think this is a relatively good location for it. The negative is it can be seen from a basement window. I need to wire in an outlet and an overhead light. Here are pictures of it in place. It is still on the pallet.
That a big window for that safe to be sitting in front of...
I was worried about that myself. I just walked outside and looked in and I could not see the safe. The relative dark color and the fact that the basement lights are off when I am not down there, it blends into the darkness. You can see it when inside, but not from the outside. Also, this is a suburban home, there is no way anyone would be walking by that window. If I saw a stranger out there I would likely challenge him.
The negative is it can be seen from a basement window.
Two words for you: window coverings.
A cheap set of drapes or mini-blinds will do wonders.
BTW, nice safe! (I need to get one, and ditch my metal gun cabinets).
~Dan
I took it off the pallet and bolted it to the concrete floor today. I put some firearms in it and passed on my gun cabinet on to my son.
I realize it's probably too late unless your building a house but - many times the foundation space below the front porch or steps just gets backfilled. This can be small like 4'-0"x4'-0" or much larger depending on what's above. Concrete walls and floor, poured ceiling on Q deck. If you can plan it, have the foundation crew cast the right size opening for a metal door buck. I've seen just the safe doors advertised, just have to plan for electric and ventilation penetrations. I've built some elaborate ones and usually the client is thrilled with this "free" walk in safe. The door can be hidden with a rolling bookcase or storage shelf in front of it :secret: Just an option for those building.
I am planning on buying a gun safe. Currently, I am looking at Dicks sporting goods. They have a Field and Stream 32 gun model for $699 on sale. This safe is 29½" wide. I want it fireproof and under 32" wide. I am planning on building it into a closet above the basement stairs.
Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
I'm not a safe expert, but I have done a fair amount of research on the topic, and what follows may be of help to those looking at safes/gun safes. When it comes to safes (and the term "safe" we will get to shortly...) you truly get what you pay for. You don't have spend a fortune for a good container, but in my view, it makes no sense to protect expensive guns, your wife's jewelry, and essential documents in a "safe" gotten from the sporing goods store.
It's essential to understand what usually passes for a "safe" is nothing of the kind. Companies spend a lot of time on fancy paint jobs, impressive handles, and marketing to convince people they are getting a true safe. However, the vast majority of what's sold are Residential Security Container (RSCs)
Companies give you a shiny fancy looking door, etc, but at the end of the day it's at best RSC rated, and not a "safe" as viewed by anyone who actually knows/installs real safes. It's important to note, not all RSCs are created equal, but when you look at what the actual RSC UL rating means, it will make you cringe:
"UL rated safes that carry the RSC label offer protection from tool attacks against the door of the safe for five minutes. Safes that carry the TL-15 and TL-30 classification offer protection from tool attacks against the safe's door for 15 or 30 minutes, respectively. Safes rated TLTR-15 or TLTR-30 offer protection from tool and torch attacks against the door for 15 or 30 minutes, respectively. Safes that are rated TLTRX6-15 or TLTRX6-30 offer protection from tool and torch attacks against any part of the safe for either 15 or 30 minutes. Of course, the price increases with the protection level."
If what you have/are considering, is UL Rated (and I wouldn't buy it if were not, but that's me and if there are any real lock smiths/safe installers here who wish to comment/correct me, please do) look at the inside door panel, there should be a tag that lists its UL rating.
Another important issue, especially for gun safes, most companies use simple gypsum board is an insulator, which draws moisture. They may use fancy terms, but on opening a wall, its gypsum board.
Higher end safes will use a composite of some sort, that is better all around for both fire and security. To the best of my knowledge, only AMSEC uses a composite in the lower end BF series products for example which improves it's security as well as fire rating.
Budget is the essential issue here, as you can get a cheap 12g gun locker or a TL30 AMSEC gun safe, and much inbetween. It's often a good idea to decide on what to spend on a safe as a % of what it is you are trying to protect, as well as other factors, such as additional security (alarms, quality of locks, doors, etc, etc) but securing things yo don't want stolen means not putting it in a cheap metal box that's intended to prevent kids and "snatch and grab" types.
Second consideration is location, as a real safe has limitations where you can put it due to their weight and size.
As mentioned, not all RSCs are created equal. For example, the AMSEC BF series is as good as some companies B rates safes, etc.. and probably the best of the RSCs on the market.
Finally, no matter what you get, have it bolted down. I can't tell you how many times I have read about safes simply being carried off by a few guys with a hand truck, with the owner (ex owner!) always being shocked! If a few guys with a sturdy hand truck can get it in your house, what makes anyone believe the reverse is not true???
If you do everything right and it still gets broken into/taken away, 99.9%, it's an inside job and someone knew exactly what you had and came prepared, so pick your friends well!
If you have the budget and need to protect an expensive collection (and people willing to put their collection of fine guns into a cheap RSC are asking for trouble...). I believe AMSEC is the only company that makes a TL30 UL listed gun safe.
It's a monster...See:
http://www.amsecusa.com/gun-safes-HS-main.htm
That's my basic run down/advice on safes that comes from my research, discussions with many a safe installer, etc. Feel free to add your thoughts. I'm sure some of you can confirm what I said above about safes simply being taken away during your work experiences as LE.
Source:
Gun Safe Info (http://www.optimalswat.com/showthread.php?t=69)
Two words for you: window coverings.
A cheap set of drapes or mini-blinds will do wonders.
Simple solution.
It has an electronic keypad which is nice.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/dimaguila1/IMG_6372.jpg
I actually looked at this very same safe at two Costco near me. The above is the main reason why I didn't buy it. I prefer the dial combination lock. I've seen a couple of electronic locks failed. Yes I know it has the key, but the sight of the keypad was the deal breaker.
BTW, the fire rating is less than 30 minutes, typical for the price range.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.