View Full Version : Gov Contract SOPMOD Stocks But Not Made by LMT
I came across a few SOPMOD stocks at a store in gov type packaging - bag with manufacturer info (58V08) and NSN on it - but it did not say LMT anyplace on the stock. Googling on my phone turned that number being assigned to B5 from Xenia, Ohio.
LMT says these are counterfeit stocks on their site, do they mean they are not LMT (but gov contract) or that they are chinese knockoffs. If they were gov contract wouldn't they have to be licensed from LMT?
Any info on these would be helpful!
Cage code 56V08 is WABINGATYOU.COM in MINDEN, NV according to DLIS-BINCS
B5 Systems in Xenia OH is 58VQ8
I meant 58V08, I just typed it wrong, edited to fix it.
I came across a few SOPMOD stocks at a store in gov type packaging - bag with manufacturer info (56V08) and NSN on it - but it did not say LMT anyplace on the stock. Googling on my phone turned that number being assigned to B5 from Xenia, Ohio.
LMT says these are counterfeit stocks on their site, do they mean they are not LMT (but gov contract) or that they are chinese knockoffs. If they were gov contract wouldn't they have to be licensed from LMT?
Any info on these would be helpful!
If LMT says it is a knockoff, it is probably a knockoff. They can package it up to make it look like gov. contract parts, hell they can package it to make it look like anything they want. Just look at some of the knockoff Aimpoints. They 100% replicate Aimpoint's boxes so that one would think it is legit.
I meant 58V08, I just typed it wrong, edited to fix it.
58V08 is EFFECTIVE LEARNING SOLUTIONS L.L.C.
If you mean Q fine :p
Either way there is only one manufacturer cage listed for NSN 1005015449825 (sopmod assembly) which is 3W544 (which is LMT).
Looks like they are at least mil-contract, found this: https://aais.ria.army.mil/aais/award_web_10/W52H0910D00240001/000000.pdf
Says that in 2010 B5 Systems received a contract to produce 25,000 "Enhanced Sliding Buttstock Assembly, Part Number 13020680, NSN: 1005-01-544-9825".
Does anyone know if that form looks legit?
scoutfsu99
05-04-11, 09:38
They are not counterfeit. They are made by P&S for the gov't. They also make KAC rails and rail covers to standard. I believe the TDP was sold.
Ok so they are "real" and gtg. Wonder why LMT says they are counterfeit.
scoutfsu99
05-04-11, 10:03
There are counterfeit stocks out there, make no mistake. Airsoft bullshit, etc.....but the stocks in the blue gov't bags - those are legit. They won't say LMT though. I know the KAC stuff is made by P&S Industries. I believe the stocks are too, but I'm not 100% on that. Lol, if I remember right, they cost the .gov somewhere around $12...
I'm not a military procurement expert, but to me, it looks legit. The thing that stands out is the price of $12.28 each! I work in the plastics industry and it's hard to beleive that they are making money on that stock with all of it's sub-assemblies and hardware for $12.28. I guess we'll be seeing more of these for sale on ebay and such, kind of like the Matech BUIS that the Gov't (us) pays about $125 for and the "street price" is about $55.
eternal24k
05-04-11, 12:06
Did they have QD sockets?
and out of curiosity, how much was the shop selling them for?
kaltesherz
05-04-11, 18:15
I found a pic of one off of a few month old TOS EE ad, definitely Gen I (no QD) and they were asking $50 a pop.
Ok so they are "real" and gtg. Wonder why LMT says they are counterfeit.
If they are sold as LMT stocks, and are not actually LMT, they can state that quite honestly.
There are SOPMOD stocks that do not say LMT that are real.
scoutfsu99
05-04-11, 20:03
There are SOPMOD stocks that do not say LMT that are real.
Those are the Crane ones right?
These are real too - just not LMT stamped and not the Crane stocks. They're licensed to P&S now.
This is some good info on the Sopmod stock.
scoutfsu99
05-04-11, 20:44
Those are the Crane ones right?
These are real too - just not LMT stamped and they're not Crane stocks. They're licensed to P&S now.
Edited for clarity
Oops, dicked that up.
LMT has, and paid for, the commercial license to sell the SOPMOD stock.
Sounds like items that slipped out the back door before or after making to the USG
Even if they were not intended to be sold on the commercial market they are still legit items, sort of like FN AR parts. As long as they are not stolen I think they are gtg.
Anyone have a link to said product?
kaltesherz
05-05-11, 09:51
Even if they were not intended to be sold on the commercial market they are still legit items, sort of like FN AR parts. As long as they are not stolen I think they are gtg.
Thing is they were all sold to the Gov, so if they're for sale they're...
lifebreath
05-05-11, 10:12
I know the KAC stuff is made by P&S Industries. I believe the stocks are too, but I'm not 100% on that.
My KAC SOPMOD stock is LMT.
scoutfsu99
05-05-11, 10:26
My KAC SOPMOD stock is LMT.
And??
Magic_Salad0892
05-05-11, 10:33
My KAC SOPMOD stock is LMT.
Your LMT SOPMOD stock is KAC.
lifebreath
05-05-11, 10:41
And??
Well, you seemed uncertain as to whose SOPMOD stocks are on KAC rifles. They are LMT stocks.
scoutfsu99
05-05-11, 10:43
Hey Lifebreath - I think you missed the entire point of the thread. There are a couple types of SOPMOD stocks out there:
1) LMT stamped
2) Crane stocks with no stamp
3) .gov stocks made by P&S on license
4) airsoft fakes
P&S also makes the KAC M4 RAS and rail panels for the .gov now. So when you see a P&S rail/cover, it is not fake - it's just not KAC.
IIRC, KAC and LMT have a strong working relationship.
scoutfsu99
05-05-11, 10:45
Well, you seemed uncertain as to whose SOPMOD stocks are on KAC rifles. They are LMT stocks.
I'm not uncertain at all......we were talking specifically about the P&S products.
lifebreath
05-05-11, 10:46
Hey Lifebreath - I think you missed the entire point of the thread. There are a couple types of SOPMOD stocks out there:
1) LMT stamped
2) Crane stocks with no stamp
3) .gov stocks made by P&S on license
4) airsoft fakes
P&S also makes the KAC M4 RAS and rail panels for the .gov now. So when you see a P&S rail/cover, it is not fake - it's just not KAC.
IIRC, KAC and LMT have a strong working relationship.
Perhaps P&S molds them for LMT? I didn't look for a CAGE code, just saw the LMT stamp.
scoutfsu99
05-05-11, 10:50
P&S does stuff for the gov't, not LMT.
scoutfsu99
05-05-11, 10:51
Here's an ARFcom link where the KAC guys talk about it - http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=472024
lifebreath
05-05-11, 10:51
Never mind ... I just re-read the whole thread. I'll get back to work now ... :blink:
EDIT: I doubt if LMT or Knight's has injection molding machines running at their facilities. It's much more likely that they subcontract the molding, possible P&S all along. NOW I'll go back to work ... maybe.
Magic_Salad0892
05-05-11, 11:17
Knights makes the SOPMOD in house, from what I know.
Hey Lifebreath - I think you missed the entire point of the thread. There are a couple types of SOPMOD stocks out there:
1) LMT stamped
2) Crane stocks with no stamp
3) .gov stocks made by P&S on license
4) airsoft fakes
P&S also makes the KAC M4 RAS and rail panels for the .gov now. So when you see a P&S rail/cover, it is not fake - it's just not KAC.
IIRC, KAC and LMT have a strong working relationship.
From what I have researched, I believe this post to be correct.
motorolahamm
12-08-11, 08:32
Well the stock was really Designed by the guys at Crane . but they needed someone who could mass produce them LMT won the first contract. its really called the crane stock , but lmt gave it the name the sopmod stock because it was going to be used for that Govt program. who knows maybe Colt or DD or even Bushmaster may be making them in a couple of years after thgis contract is either filled or over. govt always normally goes with the lowest bidder that has the means to deliver by the specified date
Well the stock was really Designed by the guys at Crane . but they needed someone who could mass produce them LMT won the first contract. its really called the crane stock , but lmt gave it the name the sopmod stock because it was going to be used for that Govt program.
This is also correct.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=90341
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
So, is there any place to buy a legit '"SOPMOD" stock for less than the LMT price? I saw one guy on ebay selling B5 stocks for about $75, but they didn't have the sling swivel socket. I need one or two more, I love the SOPMOD stocks!
So, is there any place to buy a legit '"SOPMOD" stock for less than the LMT price? I saw one guy on ebay selling B5 stocks for about $75, but they didn't have the sling swivel socket. I need one or two more, I love the SOPMOD stocks!
There are two generations of these stocks. The GEN I's had issues because the Govt gave the wrong specs.
We have the new and improved GEN II's in stock: http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=SOPM
C4
So, is there any place to buy a legit '"SOPMOD" stock for less than the LMT price? I saw one guy on ebay selling B5 stocks for about $75, but they didn't have the sling swivel socket. I need one or two more, I love the SOPMOD stocks!
Stay away from these stocks unless you want a project. These stocks were made to provided govt specs which unfortuantely were wrong. These stocks will be exceptionally tight and will need to be modified to fit, i.e. you need need to be handy with a dremel/file. These stocks were suppossed to be destroyed and never released on the open market.
Your money ahead buying the B5 Sopmod Stock from someone like Grant. You will have a stock that fits correctly right out of the box with the addition of the QD swivel mount.
Stay away from these stocks unless you want a project. These stocks were made to provided govt specs which unfortuantely were wrong. These stocks will be exceptionally tight and will need to be modified to fit, i.e. you need need to be handy with a dremel/file. These stocks were suppossed to be destroyed and never released on the open market.
Your money ahead buying the B5 Sopmod Stock from someone like Grant. You will have a stock that fits correctly right out of the box with the addition of the QD swivel mount.
This is true. Those cheap ones were selling on arfcom and people had those exact problems.
Stick with the new models.
As an aside, the easiest way to ID the problem stocks is that they lack the QD swivel mount; they were also all made in 2010.
Are the QD mounts anti rotational?
Ok so they are "real" and gtg. Wonder why LMT says they are counterfeit.
LMT is NOT talking about the B5 units (which are not counterfeits) but rather other units which are.
Are the QD mounts anti rotational?
They are not anti rotational. If thats a feature you want say it loud, also request it from G&R. We are very proactive and want to give the customer what they want. If you guys wants anti rotational, other colors, etc., let us know. Were not Burger King but well do our best.
LMT is NOT talking about the B5 units (which are not counterfeits) but rather other units which are.
From what I remember reading on their site about the "counterfeits" (I can't find the terminology) they implied, but didn't state directly, that anything without an LMT logo was fake. Or that was the impression I got.
I received my B5 SOPMOD from Grant yesterday. I am happy with the quality. It went on my BCM middy. It fits fine but I actually thought it would fit a little tighter but it's fine (that's what she said? :D).
Up until now I have put a CTR on my rifles. I shot my uncle's LMT MRP with the LMT SOPMOD a few weeks ago and really liked it. Did some research (thank you M4C.net) and it was timely for these B5s. I think the quality and price were right. I'll shoot it this weekend but have no concerns.
scoutfsu99
12-08-11, 13:59
From what I remember reading on their site about the "counterfeits" (I can't find the terminology) they implied, but didn't state directly, that anything without an LMT logo was fake. Or that was the impression I got.
They did imply that. Technically, it is not an "LMT SOPMOD." What you have to read b/w the lines is that there are counterfeit stocks out there. They're talking about the airsoft variety. The B5 stocks are legit, as stated many times in this thread. They're just not "LMT SOPMOD." Hope that helped.
They did imply that. Technically, it is not an "LMT SOPMOD." What you have to read b/w the lines is that there are counterfeit stocks out there. They're talking about the airsoft variety. The B5 stocks are legit, as stated many times in this thread. They're just not "LMT SOPMOD." Hope that helped.
Yeah I've known that for a while but my point was they made it sound like any non-LMT sopmod was a fake.
scoutfsu99
12-08-11, 14:03
Of course they did. They're a business trying to sell their product.
ETA: And I'm sure they were getting hit up for fixes and replacements for stocks that weren't theirs.
They are not anti rotational. If thats a feature you want say it loud, also request it from G&R. We are very proactive and want to give the customer what they want. If you guys wants anti rotational, other colors, etc., let us know. Were not Burger King but well do our best.
I don't know how the logistics of this would work for you but one thing that made me switch from my LMT stock to a CTR was the rear profile of the the CTR. I find it to be much more comfortable where it contacts the shoulder than the SOPMOD. Is that something that would be possible? Am I alone on that one?
polymorpheous
12-08-11, 17:03
They are not anti rotational. If thats a feature you want say it loud, also request it from G&R. We are very proactive and want to give the customer what they want. If you guys wants anti rotational, other colors, etc., let us know. Were not Burger King but well do our best.
Is the black stock the only one in production?
They are not anti rotational. If thats a feature you want say it loud, also request it from G&R. We are very proactive and want to give the customer what they want. If you guys wants anti rotational, other colors, etc., let us know. Were not Burger King but well do our best.
Yes, they should be anti rotational. The one on my Vltor IMOD is useless because it is not.
Belmont31R
12-08-11, 22:37
They are not anti rotational. If thats a feature you want say it loud, also request it from G&R. We are very proactive and want to give the customer what they want. If you guys wants anti rotational, other colors, etc., let us know. Were not Burger King but well do our best.
Yes its a feature I want. I don't know why people make ANY stock otherwise. Still don't know why Magpul is selling stocks with non rotation limited swivels. No one wants a sling getting twisted around.
Seems common sense.
Still waiting for the Coyote model to come in.
Don Robison
12-08-11, 22:59
Yes its a feature I want. I don't know why people make ANY stock otherwise. Still don't know why Magpul is selling stocks with non rotation limited swivels. No one wants a sling getting twisted around.
Seems common sense.
This^^^^^^
It's the one thing I hate on my LMT stocks.
Is the black stock the only one in production?
Black only at this time, but I believe some FDE samples have been made (patiently waiting for mine).
C4
They are not anti rotational. If thats a feature you want say it loud, also request it from G&R. We are very proactive and want to give the customer what they want. If you guys wants anti rotational, other colors, etc., let us know. Were not Burger King but well do our best.
So, how loud do we have to get about the anti-rotation QD swivels?
Do we need some of these? !!!!:D
Are a lot of people still preferring the stock QDs? I'm using a QD endplate so I'm not as concerned with the stock. Have you found some dowside to the QD endplate? It seems fine to me single or two point.
Edit:
I guess you could make the argument if you're going to put one there you may as well make it anti-rotational.
Are a lot of people still preferring the stock QDs? I'm using a QD endplate so I'm not as concerned with the stock. Have you found some dowside to the QD endplate? It seems fine to me single or two point.
Edit:
I guess you could make the argument if you're going to put one there you may as well make it anti-rotational.
Its a catch 22. I use a Noveske endplate only because the QD swivel on my Vltor is not anti-rotational and therefore useless. I would like the option.
BTW, I'm now trying to think of an example of ANY QD swivel on a rifle that should not be anti rotational.
It looks like Aimsurplus is carrying these stocks also for $99.00
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XB51074&name=B5+Systems+SOPMOD+6-Position+Stock&groupid=57
Anti-rotation AND other common colors (FDE, FG, etc).
I think this thread became a sales base for b5 but in regards to the OPs question. My unit ordered some sopmod stocks awhile ago. Blue packages and all. Same problem nsn. They didn't fit milspec reciever extentions. Way tight. You could get them on with a rubber mallet like my armoror did but it was a two man job to get it to move. Three man if you wanted it back off. Lmt told me about the counterfeit stocks and we tried to send em back. Not sure where they got with that.
Had a meeting on Friday about making QD sockets anti-rotational. In development. Standard production colors are black, coyote, flat dark earth, foliage, and multicam. Black is in production. FDE samples have been made in limited run for OEM customers. Will be available soon. If it makes you feel better I don't have a FDE stock yet either.
QuickStrike
12-11-11, 01:21
There are two generations of these stocks. The GEN I's had issues because the Govt gave the wrong specs.
We have the new and improved GEN II's in stock: http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=SOPM
C4
Think you'll get some FDE ones in the near future?
Thanks.
Edit: whoops, question already answered.
I blame the crackberry.
Had a meeting on Friday about making QD sockets anti-rotational. In development. Standard production colors are black, coyote, flat dark earth, foliage, and multicam. Black is in production. FDE samples have been made in limited run for OEM customers. Will be available soon. If it makes you feel better I don't have a FDE stock yet either.
So I don't need to chime in about anti-rotation and FDE?
:)
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