View Full Version : My 300 Whisper project
I have been wanting to get into this cartridge for some time and finally got the ball rolling on a custom build.
Here are some specs (so far):
Noveske 10.5 SS barrel (1/8 twist)
Noveske Low Profile GB (pinned)
Custom Gas Tube (from Novekse)
LT 9.0 FF rail
LT Stealth M4 upper receiver
The big question is what can am I going to use. Would like to go with a 9mm because the weight savings over a 308 can, but think the 308 can would be quieter. Thoughts?
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/JN%20Rifleworks/My%20300%20project1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/JN%20Rifleworks/My%20300%20project.jpg
Robb Jensen
10-06-07, 10:17
I have an AAC Cyclone for my Rem 700 (.308Win) that's pretty damn quiet even with super sonic 168gr and 175gr Black Hills (shooting at 100yds you can hear impact on the target and dirt backstop). I'm sure it would be VERY quiet with .300 Whisper. It fits 5/8x24 threads.
Steve was using a 9mm can and it was quiet. I'll see if I can find the video.
I am leaning towards the new Degroat Tactical can (9mm) as he will thread it any way I want. They also make a 12" 9mm can that I guess is almost hollywood quiet.
C4
What are the threads on your barrel??
The .308 can will likely be a little quieter than a 9mm can, and I'm betting there will be less crud coming back at you due to the higher internal volume.
A YHM .308 Phantom should be under $500 for you to try out -- then you could sell it as a demo can if you hate it, or it's too heavy. :D
I believe that SWR will do several endcap threadings for their Trident 9. Might feel them out, as the Trident is a kickass 9mm can.
What are the threads on your barrel??
The .308 can will likely be a little quieter than a 9mm can, and I'm betting there will be less crud coming back at you due to the higher internal volume.
A YHM .308 Phantom should be under $500 for you to try out -- then you could sell it as a demo can if you hate it, or it's too heavy. :D
I believe that SWR will do several endcap threadings for their Trident 9. Might feel them out, as the Trident is a kickass 9mm can.
Threads are 5/8x24. The can that DeGroat Tactical makes is specifically geared towards the 300 whisper with a smaller exit hole than a 9mm can. First two baffles are SS and the can is made out of Alum. It is also 12" long. Cost is around $500.
C4
Don't know much about cans, but I hope you let me shoot it when your finished
:D
Don't know much about cans, but I hope you let me shoot it when your finished
:D
Will do. The can issue is resolved. I might even offer them for sale as a package deal with the uppers. Price on them will be around $650 I think. :D
C4
Nathan_Bell
10-09-07, 15:05
Will do. The can issue is resolved. I might even offer them for sale as a package deal with the uppers. Price on them will be around $650 I think. :D
C4
Grant with a Hollywood quiet weapon, the mind boggles.
Grant with a Hollywood quiet weapon, the mind boggles.
Just wait till you hear it. :D
C4
Nathan_Bell
10-09-07, 15:22
Just wait till you hear it. :D
C4
Grant owns the night!
300 Whisper HUGE honkin suppressor
PVS 14
DBAL 2
Look out Wiley Coyote!:eek:
Grant owns the night!
300 Whisper HUGE honkin suppressor
PVS 14
DBAL 2
Look out Wiley Coyote!:eek:
LOL, let the fun begin!
C4
Dude, that is badass!!!!!!!!!!!! I remember shooting that round down at Blackwater. Freaking quiet.
I'm so coming to visit you when you finish this.
Dude, that is badass!!!!!!!!!!!! I remember shooting that round down at Blackwater. Freaking quiet.
I'm so coming to visit you when you finish this.
Thanks Steve.
C4
Grant,
I just ordered the 10.5" barrel from you earlier this week. I can't wait to get it. Hopefully I'll be able to take out a deer with it this season. :D
Please keep us informed on the DEGROAT can!!!
Grant,
I just ordered the 10.5" barrel from you earlier this week. I can't wait to get it. Hopefully I'll be able to take out a deer with it this season. :D
Please keep us informed on the DEGROAT can!!!
Will do.
C4
Get the 9mm can. The cartridge isnt big enough to know the difference if you are using a can that is "too" big. I've exerimented with .30, 2" .338, and 9mm cans, and they all sound the same.
The next thing you need to do is sell the whisper and get a .338 Spectre:D
Get the 9mm can. The cartridge isnt big enough to know the difference if you are using a can that is "too" big. I've exerimented with .30, 2" .338, and 9mm cans, and they all sound the same.
The next thing you need to do is sell the whisper and get a .338 Spectre:D
Thanks Steve. That is basically what I am using (a 9mm can). The difference though is that the first two baffles are SS (instead of just one like in a normal 9mm can).
The .338 is of interest to me as well, but one project at a time. :D
C4
Thanks Steve. That is basically what I am using (a 9mm can). The difference though is that the first two baffles are SS (instead of just one like in a normal 9mm can).
C4
If you or anyone else is considering suppressing one of these, you should really consider the 9mm YHM QD Wraith. Its under $600, built for subgun use and is a quiet as anything else. I have a mount on my 9mm and 338.
If you or anyone else is considering suppressing one of these, you should really consider the 9mm YHM QD Wraith. Its under $600, built for subgun use and is a quiet as anything else. I have a mount on my 9mm and 338.
I have looked at these and they appear to be a really good value. The can I am going to go with is under $600 as well.
C4
Can John do the barrels at 1/2x28tpi for easier use of standard 9mm cans? Further, does he offer these as normal items? Or was that a special for you?
I have been wanting to get into this cartridge for some time and finally got the ball rolling on a custom build.
Here are some specs (so far):
Noveske 10.5 SS barrel (1/8 twist)
Noveske Low Profile GB (pinned)
Custom Gas Tube (from Novekse)
LT 9.0 FF rail
LT Stealth M4 upper receiver
The big question is what can am I going to use. Would like to go with a 9mm because the weight savings over a 308 can, but think the 308 can would be quieter. Thoughts?
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/JN%20Rifleworks/My%20300%20project1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/JN%20Rifleworks/My%20300%20project.jpg
Hey copycat, I just noticed this thread. I see when it comes to builds, great minds think alike.:D
I went with the Gemtech HVT. Little overkill for this application but I use it on a 700 bolt gun as well.
My Noveske loves 220 gr SMKs. This is one fun weapon.
AR15barrels
10-28-07, 21:28
Can John do the barrels at 1/2x28tpi for easier use of standard 9mm cans?
Think about that for a minute...
Minor thread diameter on 1/2-28 threads is about 0.440"
Major diameter on a 0.308" barrel is 0.308"
Do you really want to hang a can on a barrel wall thickness of 0.066"?
I recommend 9/16-24 as the minimum thread size on 30 caliber barrels.
Can John do the barrels at 1/2x28tpi for easier use of standard 9mm cans? Further, does he offer these as normal items? Or was that a special for you?
He generally stocks the 300 barrels in 10.5 and 16". He doesn't do any 1/2X28.
C4
Think about that for a minute...
Minor thread diameter on 1/2-28 threads is about 0.440"
Major diameter on a 0.308" barrel is 0.308"
Do you really want to hang a can on a barrel wall thickness of 0.066"?
I recommend 9/16-24 as the minimum thread size on 30 caliber barrels.
Good point...
Reasons it didn't hit me are...
1) I didn't have those specs. :p
2) I figured if a 9mm AR barrel could have 1/2x36 or 1/2x28, then it shouldn't be an issue for a smaller diameter bore of the .30 caliber.
Is the lower wall thickness tolerance on 9mm AR's due to the lower pressure pistol caliber being used?
AR15barrels
10-29-07, 11:06
Good point...
Reasons it didn't hit me are...
1) I didn't have those specs. :p
2) I figured if a 9mm AR barrel could have 1/2x36 or 1/2x28, then it shouldn't be an issue for a smaller diameter bore of the .30 caliber.
Is the lower wall thickness tolerance on 9mm AR's due to the lower pressure pistol caliber being used?
9mm barrel wall thickness is 0.045" which I don't particularly like either.
9mm barrels often have a little stretch ring in the bore from when someone over tightens the muzzle device.
It's not really a matter of 0.045" or 0.066" being "strong enough" to hold a can without breaking off, it's a matter of "why choose a smaller thread spec when you can have something stronger instead?"
Any 1/2-28 or 1/2-36 muzzle device can be opened up to 9/16-24 by simply drilling out the existing threads and running a 9/16-24 tap into it.
http://ar15barrels.com/tech/9mmthreads.jpg
...it's a matter of "why choose a smaller thread spec when you can have something stronger instead?"....
In my case, the "why" would be due to having three 9mm cans in 1/2x28tpi that could work with the low volume subsonic 300/221 rounds. It was a selfish request...
AR15barrels
10-29-07, 14:24
In my case, the "why" would be due to having three 9mm cans in 1/2x28tpi that could work with the low volume subsonic 300/221 rounds. It was a selfish request...
Well, you are "better off" with 1/2-28 on a 308 bore than on a 9mm bore.
That's not to say you have the best case, but you are better off.
3/4-16 is about the best case.
Updates???
Got the lower assembled and bought some Sierra 220gr MK's for reloading, but nothing else yet. Got wrapped around the axle with my dedicated .22 AR upper and can. :D
C4
Cohiba,
What are you using for powder? I have the same Noveske barrel and am playing around with different loads. I've found that ACCR NO. 9 is too fast (above 1100) and does not reliably cycle the action. And ACCR 2015 is too slow (approx 1000) on a compressed charge but cycles great.
I loaded up some with Hodgdon H4227 and will hopefully get out to the range tomorrow.
BTW, I'm using 220gr SMKs as well.
I'm also trying to work up a plinking load using Remington 180gr Core-Lokt, which are half the price of SMKs. I think I'm almost there too.
So what's this cartridge look like and is it something you'd only want to reload?
I am selling off uppers and looking to condense down to a few nice ones...
Having a 9mm can makes this look interesting...
So what's this cartridge look like and is it something you'd only want to reload?
I am selling off uppers and looking to condense down to a few nice ones...
Having a 9mm can makes this look interesting...
Here's a good example I found online. The brass can be formed out of .223 brass. And you CAN buy loaded ammo, but at a dollar a round, it'll limit most people's shooting. It runs approx $400 per 1000 to reload .300 Whisper with 220gr SMKs. Just a tad higher than buying loaded .223.
All you'll need is a .300 Whisper AR barrel. You can use the .223 bolt, mag, etc. Everything but the barrel. I bought my 10.5" Noveske barrel from Grant.
Here's a video of one in action: http://www.quarterbore.com/300whisper/rifles/video_rig06.wmv
There's also a video on YouTube. Just do a search for ".300 Whisper"
http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/photopost/data/535/DSC07933.JPG
Thanks!
All we need now is a picture of a little .223 pill next to the .300...
Thanks!
All we need now is a picture of a little .223 pill next to the .300...
Sinced you asked....220gr SMK HPBT .308 vs. Hornady 55gr .223
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b367/steezo757/Picture015-2.jpg
I could not find a whisper barrel on his site, what is a rough estimate of the cost of one of those barrels?
AR15barrels
11-25-07, 01:41
Seek out Dave Davis for pre-formed and trimmed 300x221 brass.
You will be very happy with his prices and the quality of the formed brass.
Here's my comparison picture:
http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/whisper.jpg
AR15barrels
11-25-07, 01:52
What are you using for powder? I have the same Noveske barrel and am playing around with different loads. I've found that ACCR NO. 9 is too fast (above 1100) and does not reliably cycle the action. And ACCR 2015 is too slow (approx 1000) on a compressed charge but cycles great.
I loaded up some with Hodgdon H4227 and will hopefully get out to the range tomorrow.
BTW, I'm using 220gr SMKs as well.
I'm also trying to work up a plinking load using Remington 180gr Core-Lokt, which are half the price of SMKs. I think I'm almost there too.
I have done a LOT of 300x221 barrels.
If you want reliable subsonic function, get the 240's and be done with it.
I actually have a 500ct box of the 250's from before sierra discontinued them.
What's the gas port diameter and location on the noveske barrel?
I assume it's a pistol length gas port location as it should be.
It's tough to make these run with just one gas port size.
Rather than trying to adjust the loads to get them to function, I recommend an adjustable gas system that you tune to the load.
Open up the gas port to 0.120" and run an adjustable gas block or gas tube.
I do custom adjustable pistol gas tubes as required.
AA1680, AA2015 and H4227 are about as slow as you can go before you run out of case capacity and have all sorts of unburned powder problems.
I recommend staying with about 8.9 or 9.0gr of H110 and 240gr matchkings.
That load has been VERY accurate for me, often showing 8fps SD with 10 rounds over the chronograph in 10" to 12" barrels.
Don't even bother to try to get the cheap 180's to run subsonic.
You are not going to have enough pressure/volume to get them to cycle without a HUGE gas port which gets you back to the debate of tuning the loads to run the barrel vs tuning the loads for accuracy and simply adjusting the gas system for proper function. ;)
I could not find a whisper barrel on his site, what is a rough estimate of the cost of one of those barrels?
If your looking for 16" 300W Noveske barrels we have them in stock.
C4
I have several SBR's, so I would be looking for something a little bit shorter. Do you have any of that variety?
Thanks
I have done a LOT of 300x221 barrels.
If you want reliable subsonic function, get the 240's and be done with it.
I actually have a 500ct box of the 250's from before sierra discontinued them.
What's the gas port diameter and location on the noveske barrel?
I assume it's a pistol length gas port location as it should be.
It's tough to make these run with just one gas port size.
Rather than trying to adjust the loads to get them to function, I recommend an adjustable gas system that you tune to the load.
Open up the gas port to 0.120" and run an adjustable gas block or gas tube.
I do custom adjustable pistol gas tubes as required.
AA1680, AA2015 and H4227 are about as slow as you can go before you run out of case capacity and have all sorts of unburned powder problems.
I recommend staying with about 8.9 or 9.0gr of H110 and 240gr matchkings.
That load has been VERY accurate for me, often showing 8fps SD with 10 rounds over the chronograph in 10" to 12" barrels.
Don't even bother to try to get the cheap 180's to run subsonic.
You are not going to have enough pressure/volume to get them to cycle without a HUGE gas port which gets you back to the debate of tuning the loads to run the barrel vs tuning the loads for accuracy and simply adjusting the gas system for proper function. ;)
Makes sense. The Noveske barrel's gas port measured in at 0.0875". A little small compared to what I've been reading.
I've tried all the powders you listed except for AA1680. I couldn't find it last night at my local gun shop, so I picked up a lb of IMR4198. It has been fun playing around with different loads, but I think I may do the adjustable gas system method. Being that it's a Noveske barrel, I'm a little hesitant to get it worked on.
So for adjustable gas systems, what are my options? I'm leaning towards a JP low profile (to fit under the handguard) adjustable gas block. I'll also call MGI today to see if their adjustable gas tube comes in "pistol" length.
The 180s are not that accurate. The intent of working up these loads are for when I take the girlfriend or new shooters out to the range. Just trying to save cost with people who want to pull triggers and are not too concerned with grouping.
ETA:
Well I just got off the phone with Tom at MGI. They do not sell adjustable pistol length gas systems. But he did refer me to you, Randall, and mentioned that you can make a custom adjustable gas tube for me. But there's a problem here. The gas tube valve will not fit underneath the handguard of my MGI QCB upper. I'm a little bummed. That would of worked out great.
So I guess I'm going to have to go with JP Enterprises.
I have several SBR's, so I would be looking for something a little bit shorter. Do you have any of that variety?
Thanks
They also make the barrels in 10.5".
C4
I could not find a whisper barrel on his site, what is a rough estimate of the cost of one of those barrels?
Check your PM's.
AR15barrels
11-27-07, 18:16
The Noveske barrel's gas port measured in at 0.0875". A little small compared to what I've been reading.
That's more than big enough on a 16" barrel if you stay with 240's going slow or 125's/150's going fast.
0.0875" is too small on a 10.5" barrel.
If you want to run lighter bullets subsonic, you will need to go to a bigger port on a 16" barrel.
10.5" barrels might never get function with mid-weight subsonic loads.
Well I just got off the phone with Tom at MGI. They do not sell adjustable pistol length gas systems. But he did refer me to you, Randall, and mentioned that you can make a custom adjustable gas tube for me. But there's a problem here. The gas tube valve will not fit underneath the handguard of my MGI QCB upper. I'm a little bummed. That would of worked out great.
I can mount the adjuster sideways and it should fit under the CQB handguard.
You would just need to drill an access hole, or remove the barrel each time you want to adjust it.
I have a first generation CQB upper if you want me to check the fit of a sideways adjuster block.
I can mount the adjuster sideways and it should fit under the CQB handguard.
You would just need to drill an access hole, or remove the barrel each time you want to adjust it.
I have a first generation CQB upper if you want me to check the fit of a sideways adjuster block.
I have a second generation CQB upper. Talking to Tom at MGI, the inner diameter of the second gen are small than the first gen. I'll measure the I.D. this evening.
An adjustable gas tube is my preferred method. The JP adjustable gas block is not going to be as easy as I thought. The diameter of the Noveske barrel at the gas block is 0.875". JP adj gas blocks only come in .750" and .936". To get the JP gb to fit, I'd have to send it to you to be profiled down.
So hopefully we can get an adjustable gas tube to fit.
Randall,
The ID measured out to 1.63". So let's say 1.6". Do you think it'll fit?
The silencers by HTG might be worth checking out. They have a 6.75'' .30 cal silencer. It weighs 20 ounces. I am curious if anyone has used their silencers and how they performed.
http://www.htgsilencers.com/pages/rifle.html
I am about to start one of these projects too. The Noveske 10.5 will be inside a rifle-length PRI tube. The suppressor will stick out approx 3.7" from the tube-- ie, between the length of a bare 16" and a 16" with an A2 FH. I figure the can will weigh around 10 oz.
-z
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