7.62x51 vs 7.62x39

[Joshk]

I have a Del-ton AR-15 7.62x39 chambered. I wanted more knock down power beyond 100yrds, and I figure bigger is better.

I was looking to buy the New Bushmaster .308 MOE Mid-length. Worth it? thoughts?

[GIJew766]

Thoughts? Heres a few...

For starters, get rid of that Del-Ton pile and stop even considering a new rifle of any kind until you read the forum for a while. Take a look at the Chart, read through some of the threads comparing .308 ARs and learn a few things.

First off, looking at your posting history, you never seem to give too much info about yourself or your needs. What do you need the 7.62 NATO for? What optics you planning on running for the "range" you seek? Are you going to train on the rifle very much, because .308 ammo isn't the cheapest. You don't strike me as someone who knows too much about the platform to begin with. My mall-ninja radar is pinging pretty bad right now.

Give us some more info and then maybe we can offer some decent advice. Until then...



H

[mkmckinley]

Why don't you read the stickies? There's a lot of information there that will answer your questions.

[QuietShootr]

Piss poor.

[TOrrock]

I would certainly replace your DelTon, but with a standard high quality 5.56mm carbine like a Colt, Daniel Defense, LMT, Bravo Co., or Noveske.

Any of those choices are extremely well made and will perform admirably as a defensive carbine.

If you are wanting to use the carbine to hunt up to medium game, you can get a dedicated upper in a larger caliber like 6.8SPC, 6.5 Grendel, .300 Blackout, and use the same lower.

But to answer your question best, we need to know 1) what your baseline of experience is, 2) what your intended uses for the carbine are, and 3) your budget.

[GIJew766]

I would certainly replace your DelTon, but with a standard high quality 5.56mm carbine like a Colt, Daniel Defense, LMT, Bravo Co., or Noveske.

Any of those choices are extremely well made and will perform admirably as a defensive carbine.

If you are wanting to use the carbine to hunt up to medium game, you can get a dedicated upper in a larger caliber like 6.8SPC, 6.5 Grendel, .300 Blackout, and use the same lower.

But to answer your question best, we need to know 1) what your baseline of experience is, 2) what your intended uses for the carbine are, and 3) your budget.

See, this is what I was getting at, but you said it in a much nicer way than I did.

Apparently, I shouldn't post while I'm sitting in the station after several calls...


H

[Joshk]

Posting Rules

1) Derogatory Remarks – Please do not post any comments that are intentional personal attacks against other members. (Including, but not limited to, name calling, comments of a racial, religious or sexual nature.) Debate is welcome and encouraged. Personal attacks, and name calling, serve no purpose in the exchange and debate of good information. Please be respectful to your fellow shooting enthusiasts whether they are new shooters or seasoned veterans.

so anyhow. The AR I have is for home defense, and or Hunting deer, Wild boar, and Coyotes. Just thought that maybe someone could give me a intelligent point of view on Bushmaster brand compaired to my DTI. "Not your DTI is garbage throw it away." kind of crap. I am well aware there are better AR platforms out there. I am not a professional. Thats why I joined the site.

[ZRH]

Posting Rules

1) Derogatory Remarks – Please do not post any comments that are intentional personal attacks against other members. (Including, but not limited to, name calling, comments of a racial, religious or sexual nature.) Debate is welcome and encouraged. Personal attacks, and name calling, serve no purpose in the exchange and debate of good information. Please be respectful to your fellow shooting enthusiasts whether they are new shooters or seasoned veterans.

so anyhow. The AR I have is for home defense, and or Hunting deer, Wild boar, and Coyotes. Just thought that maybe someone could give me a intelligent point of view on Bushmaster brand compaired to my DTI. "Not your DTI is garbage throw it away." kind of crap. I am well aware there are better AR platforms out there. I am not a professional. Thats why I joined the site.

7.62x51 is a full sized (as opposed to intermediate) rifle round. It's not a valid comparative to 7.62x39. </full stop>

5.56x45 will do everything you listed except deer.

[TOrrock]

I would certainly replace your DelTon, but with a standard high quality 5.56mm carbine like a Colt, Daniel Defense, LMT, Bravo Co., or Noveske.

Any of those choices are extremely well made and will perform admirably as a defensive carbine.

If you are wanting to use the carbine to hunt up to medium game, you can get a dedicated upper in a larger caliber like 6.8SPC, 6.5 Grendel, .300 Blackout, and use the same lower.

But to answer your question best, we need to know 1) what your baseline of experience is, 2) what your intended uses for the carbine are, and 3) your budget.


Posting Rules

1) Derogatory Remarks – Please do not post any comments that are intentional personal attacks against other members. (Including, but not limited to, name calling, comments of a racial, religious or sexual nature.) Debate is welcome and encouraged. Personal attacks, and name calling, serve no purpose in the exchange and debate of good information. Please be respectful to your fellow shooting enthusiasts whether they are new shooters or seasoned veterans.

so anyhow. The AR I have is for home defense, and or Hunting deer, Wild boar, and Coyotes. Just thought that maybe someone could give me a intelligent point of view on Bushmaster brand compaired to my DTI. "Not your DTI is garbage throw it away." kind of crap. I am well aware there are better AR platforms out there. I am not a professional. Thats why I joined the site.


Did I tell you to throw your DTI away? No, I said I'd sell it, as you were asking if you should, and replace it with a quality carbine.

Take a minute to read Army Chief's thread here:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=70019

Welcome to the site. I'd also take some time and use the orange search button at the top right hand side of the page, it will go a long way towards finding answers for your questions as many have already been answered in past threads.

I would not invest in a Bushmaster.

[GIJew766]

Posting Rules

1) Derogatory Remarks – Please do not post any comments that are intentional personal attacks against other members. (Including, but not limited to, name calling, comments of a racial, religious or sexual nature.) Debate is welcome and encouraged. Personal attacks, and name calling, serve no purpose in the exchange and debate of good information. Please be respectful to your fellow shooting enthusiasts whether they are new shooters or seasoned veterans.

so anyhow. The AR I have is for home defense, and or Hunting deer, Wild boar, and Coyotes. Just thought that maybe someone could give me a intelligent point of view on Bushmaster brand compaired to my DTI. "Not your DTI is garbage throw it away." kind of crap. I am well aware there are better AR platforms out there. I am not a professional. Thats why I joined the site.


Hoss, there was no personal attack. If you took the time to read what I wrote, you'd see that I was (in an admittedly harsher way than intended) simply trying to get an idea of what you need based on intended use, experience, etc. The fact that you got all butthurt because I may have been a little more brash than you would have like kind of makes me laugh.

The reality is, for small to medium game, the .308 is a bit more than you'd likely need. As has already been said, there are plenty of INTERMEDIATE cartridges that would serve the role. Hell, the mention of 300 BLK is a great one, considering the carbine would be used for home defense. Simply add the suppressor and life is grand. The ballistics are comparable to what you're already familiar with in the 7.62x39 round. Not only that, it makes for a dandy suppressed carbine, which makes home defense a little more tolerable in the event you need to make the shot, God forbid.

As for the DTI, Bushy, blah blah blah bullshit...I understand that was the question asked, but also understand that when someone says "Oh yeah, go for the Bushy," that becomes their tacit stamp of approval. I myself refuse to compromise on any of my arms, because of the simple fact that there might come a day when I need to rely on them to save my life or more importantly, the life of someone I love. A Bushmaster is not something I would stake my life on, and it certainly isn't something I would ever give my stamp of approval to. That's all.



H

[jonconsiglio]

JoshK, I understand why you're asking about these other calibers. While 7.62x51 is a great round, I wouldn't suggest it in this particular case as other choices would be much more versatile like Templar said.

Regardless of what you've heard or think about the 5.56, it's more than adequate. Just because some guys think we need a bigger round for military, it does not mean anything in the way of home defense and hunting. We use completely different ammo on animals, take time to aim our shots can easily drop most game from deer-sized on down, though I'd use something a little larger for deer. I've taken a large number of hogs with just your average 5.56 round on the first shot, humanely.

For defense, you'd be hard pressed to find a better cartridge than 5.56, especially using 5.56. Even using a 10.5" gun, that round will be utterly devastating at any self defense range you'd encounter. If you need bigger for deer, like already mentioned, get a 6.8 or 300blk.

What I would do, depending on your funds, is buy a new 5.56 rifle from Bravo Co, Colt, DD or Noveske (of course there's a few others as well). Then, if for hatever reason you feel you need more than that, get a 7.62x39, 6.8, 6.5 or 300 upper that can be used on your 5.56 lower.

I see this quite often where guys think they need more than they really do. What they really need is training on the 5.56 to understand it's strengths (and weaknesses) and learn what's the best ammo for each application. Given those things, I've rarely seen someone say it's not enough for them unless they're hunting larger game.

Good luck Josh. Don't talke anything here too personal, we see a lot of really stupid shit every day so it's not uncommon for us to react that way when similar posts pop up. The wording we use and the message we convey is very important. Not saying you really did anything wrong, but a quick search may have given you a better idea how to approach the questions you had and maybe layer them out a little more detailed.

Even if someone does post back aggressively, they're not necessarily attacking your character, just the question you had.

Hang in there, post in the introduction if you haven't and I'd strongly suggest reading at least one sticky a day.

Jonathan

[jonconsiglio]

For the record, I own or have owned ARs chambered in 6.8, 7.62x39, 7.62x51 and obviously 5.56. The 6.8 is a decent round but I don't have much need for it. The 7.62x39 is fine too, but I struggled to find a place for it. The 7.62x51 guns have been great, but they really don't do a whole lot that a cheaper bolt gun won't do and I wouldn't use my SCAR Heavy or LWRC REPR for home defense unless they had a 12" barrel. Both of mine are 16".