.223 vs 5.56 reloading...

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

So I'm all squared away with the difference between the two cases. But... My dies are labeled .223 so I'm assume that when I resize my 5.56 cases it turns them into an actual .223 case right?

I wanted to double check this because I'm thinking of building a .223 precision gun with a .223 chamber but I wanted to make sure I can run all my reloads through it even if the reloaded case started out as a 5.56 case and I resized it into a .223... I should be good to go right? I just can't run factory 5.56 loads through the .223 chambered gun.

Thanks

[jmart]

Case dimensions are identical. There's no difference between .223 and 5.56 from a resizing perspective.

The differences between the two chamberings are in the freebore and leade areas, and dies have nothing to do with this. These areas, and their accompanying dimensional differences, are in front of the case mouth -- dies don't deal in this area of the chamber, they simply squeeze the case body/shoulder/neck back down to ensure reliable chambering and bullet grip.

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

Copy... I thought there was change in head space between the two. Thanks for the clarification. So as long as I mind my load pressure, I'm good to go.

[jmart]

The cases may have slightly different specs for No-Go and Field, and these deltas may be in the ten thousandths, but I'm not aware of any die manufacturer making separate dies for .223 and 5.56. There's only one resizer made and it's used on all .223 cases, regardless if they're fired in a NATO chamber or a SAAMI chamber. Headspace and resultant case shoulder bump is adjusted by how much you screw the die into the press.

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

While I've got you... What I have heard is that best accuracy for .223 rounds is obtained in .223 chambers. So I would assume if I'm shooting my own 75gr reloads for this gun I would want a .223 chamber and not a 5.56? What's the advantage of a Wylde chamber?

[shootist~]

...even if the reloaded case started out as a 5.56 case and I resized it into a .223... ?

No such animal exists. A .223 sizer die is a 5.56 sizer die. Use good loading procedures referenced in the reloading manuals and quit over-thinking. It's a chamber / internal pressure thing only; not a case thing.

You will find very little, if any, true 5.56 pressure reloading data anyway. If you do, it's best to just steer clear - especially if your are inexperienced.

55 grain and probably 62 grain 5.56 ammo can be (and is) shot in .223 chambers - just not safely.

[RWBlue]

OP, I hope you know this, but......

Case thickness varies between years and even more so between manufacturer.

i.e. A load that works well with Remington Brass may be VERY hot in LC.

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

OP, I hope you know this, but......

Case thickness varies between years and even more so between manufacturer.

i.e. A load that works well with Remington Brass may be VERY hot in LC.

That's not an issue at this point. All my reloads are mixed brass for high volume training and they are light loads. When I start working on more accurate loads I'll get some fresh brass and keep it separated from my high volume brass.

[Hound_va]

OP, I hope you know this, but......

Case thickness varies between years and even more so between manufacturer.

i.e. A load that works well with Remington Brass may be VERY hot in LC.

Or it may be the exact opposite. Check Molon's posts on case capacity as there is a fair amount of misinformation out there about 5.56 case capacity. Misinformation that stemmed from 30.06 and 7.62 military brass.

[jmart]

OP, I hope you know this, but......

Case thickness varies between years and even more so between manufacturer.

i.e. A load that works well with Remington Brass may be VERY hot in LC.

LC is probably the lightest brass out there, so probably the thinnest as well. Most cases run low-mid 90's in weight, and then some foreign stuff jumps up to 110-115 IIRC. Those I cull out and segregate, but I don't worry about Win vs LC vs Rem. Having said that, I don't have a precision rig so I don't get too anal about certain reloading practices. But I can say I haven't run into pressure problems, i.e., a safe load in a 91 grain LC case doesn't show pressure signs in a 95 grain Win case.

[jmart]

While I've got you... What I have heard is that best accuracy for .223 rounds is obtained in .223 chambers. So I would assume if I'm shooting my own 75gr reloads for this gun I would want a .223 chamber and not a 5.56? What's the advantage of a Wylde chamber?

Both are capable of fine accuracy by all accounts. The Wylde has a shallower leade and longer freebore. The Wylde will allow you to load rounds longer than 2.260" and then single-load them. You can't run these longer rounds through a mag, the mag limits cartridge length to ~ 2.260". By loading the rounds longer you can get the ogive closer to the lands which can improve accuracy. This is really in the domain of VLD designs -- JLKs, Bergers, Hornady A-Max, etc. If you are going to load Horn 75 BTHP, Sierra 77 BTHP or Nosler 75 BTHP I doubt if it matters much, just load to mag length and practice, practice, practice.

[MistWolf]

You will get the best accuracy tailoring the loads to the chamber of your rifle, regardless of caliber. The choice of 223 or 5.56 chamber dimension does not determine accuracy, but how the ammunition fits

[markm]

Or it may be the exact opposite. Check Molon's posts on case capacity as there is a fair amount of misinformation out there about 5.56 case capacity. Misinformation that stemmed from 30.06 and 7.62 military brass.

Exactly. I've even seen this myth perpetuated by the reloading equipment companies. :rolleyes:

[GunnutAF]

It all has to do with your trim length! If your going to use 5.56mm brass your going to trim alot more off! The 5.56mm will be 1.760 "+ after being shot and sized! Since you have a .223 Rem chamber your trim length will be 1.750" . If you don't trim your 5.56mm brass down you WILL be shoving case into the throat of your rifle -BAD! :rolleyes:

[markm]

It all has to do with your trim length! If your going to use 5.56mm brass your going to trim alot more off! The 5.56mm will be 1.760 "+ after being shot and sized! Since you have a .223 Rem chamber your trim length will be 1.750" . If you don't trim your 5.56mm brass down you WILL be shoving case into the throat of your rifle -BAD! :rolleyes:

Yeah... any time I trim XM193 brass it's much longer than once fired .223.

[sinister]

If you shoot cartridges in a GI MILSPEC barrel and use standard full-size dies, then try to load those in a tighter commercial or match chamber expect the possibility of stuck cases, extraction problems, or even an occasional slam-fire.

Been there, done that.

Full-size dies DO NOT bring once-fired in military 5.56 chamber case dimensions close nor safe for all commercial chambers. You may or may not need to use a small-base die to get your brass closer to virigin specs.

[Boxerglocker]

If you shoot cartridges in a GI MILSPEC barrel and use standard full-size dies, then try to load those in a tighter commercial or match chamber expect the possibility of stuck cases, extraction problems, or even an occasional slam-fire.

Been there, done that.

Full-size dies DO NOT bring once-fired in military 5.56 chamber case dimensions close nor safe for all commercial chambers. You may or may not need to use a small-base die to get your brass closer to virigin specs.

I'm having a bit of a mental block on this… How can this be if resizing LC brass using a FL die such as a Dillon on my 650. They all case gauge perfectly for headspace and trim length on both my Dillon case gauge and on my buddies LE case gauge. What's the difference?

[sinister]

A full-length die will give the case a MILD re-sizing and push the shoulder back to dimension for maximum case life with minimum brass working -- they are NOT designed to bring the case to near-new dimensions above the extractor groove.

Full-length dies are meant for all generic .223 users whether they are shooting a bolt-action, pump, or semi. A small-base die is generally for someone using an autoloader to bring cases to close-to-virgin dimensions for feeding reliability.

If you only have one rifle try FL dies. If you load for multiple rifles, especially with a mix of GI and match chambers go for small-base.

[jmart]

If the rig you're contemplating building will have a SAAMI-spec chamber, then you'll be fine with regular FL resizer resizing brass fired from your gun. If you source brass that was originally fired in a generous SAW chamber, then you may need a SB resizer for the first resizing. After that your FL resizer should be fine.

I wouldn't run out and get a SB resizer unless your rig tells you you need one. You'll get best possible accuracy with brass that properly fits your chamber. Only if you experience issues should you begin considering going the SB resizer route. JMHO.

[texasgunhand]

So since iam shooting 223 from my 556 chamber in an m-4, if iam reading this right, to reload it to 223 specs. i just need to buy a press, no need to resize the 223 brass,just reload???

i know that it would, i guess eventully need to be trimmed ,but once fired 223 brass would" basicly" just need to be reloaded correct? to 223 specs?

once again if iam reading all this right ??? lol , it doesnt or there is no differnce in the 223 or 556 case even after firing a 223 in a 556 its still stock 223 brass??

iam thinking of buying a press set were you get scales ,primer tool etc, all in one kit, or would i get a better set-up if i bought the stuff piece by piece??? my dad reloaded for years but iam just getting into it later in life.so i know nothing about any new presses or companys.
thanks for reading...shawn

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

You'll need to go back through and reread stuff or seek further education about the reloading process. You have missed a few crucial items. All brass must be resized prior to loading even if it's brand new in the bag it's a good idea. Trimming is not always needed, but sizing wether it's just a shoulder bump and a neck size or a full length size which is what I always do is required for proper feeding, and bullet tension during the reloading process.

For further information about reloading equipment and brass processing for .223 for high volume reloading please see my blog posts:

https://weaponkingpin.wordpress.com/2012/10/24/reloading-equipment-a-primer-for-the-novice/

https://weaponkingpin.wordpress.com/2013/01/14/2235-56-reloading-part-1-brass-cleaning-and-processing/

[Boxerglocker]

I'm having a bit of a mental block on this… How can this be if resizing LC brass using a FL die such as a Dillon on my 650. They all case gauge perfectly for headspace and trim length on both my Dillon case gauge and on my buddies LE case gauge. What's the difference?


A full-length die will give the case a MILD re-sizing and push the shoulder back to dimension for maximum case life with minimum brass working -- they are NOT designed to bring the case to near-new dimensions above the extractor groove.

Full-length dies are meant for all generic .223 users whether they are shooting a bolt-action, pump, or semi. A small-base die is generally for someone using an autoloader to bring cases to close-to-virgin dimensions for feeding reliability.

If you only have one rifle try FL dies. If you load for multiple rifles, especially with a mix of GI and match chambers go for small-base.

Forgot about this post but actually answered my own question... Dillon FL dies are small base. http://www.dillonprecision.com/Dillon_223_rem_sizing_die-98-14-311.htm

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

As a side note, I recommend the Lee U Dies for reloading of pistol calibers. It's basically a small base pistol die with an under sized case mouth. It helps with consistent bullet tension as well as keeping the base of the case from growing after repeated reloads of the same case.

I will also generally give up some accuracy in my .223 loads by full length sizing all of them just to make sure I never get a stuck case during a match. I've never tried to compare how much it effects accuracy but I'm getting right at 0.7 MOA on all my match loads with full length sizing and that's fine for my application in both 3-Gun and long range team matches that are shot in the field. Our shooting position and the environment effect my accuracy way more than a little bit of a loose case would. But I've seen several guys with ARs that go tit's up during a match after they get hot and dirty. I've never had an issue.

[texasgunhand]

thanks i got it now,after reading and watching vids.i see what to do.

[Airhasz]

thanks i got it now,after reading and watching vids.i see what to do.

You are going to need a reloading manual or two, so get it now and
read up on everything reloading before you go any further.

[SteveS]

The 223 and the 5.56 cases are the same external dimensions. The powder charge is different,the 5.56 has a higher pressure [more powder. think of the 5.56 as a magnum load]. The difference between the 223 and the 5.56 in in the chamber dimensions of the rifle. 223 works in 223 dinemsion chambers and 5.56 dimension chambers. 5.56 is only for 5.56 dimension chambers.

[eightmillimeter]

Accurate Arms offers a section into reloading high pressure .223 (read 5.56) ammunition with several popular projectiles. There is a short disclaimer and then some good data.

[NWcityguy2]

Ramshot does as well. Accurate and Ramshot are currently owned by the same parent company, Western Powders. Instead of using 55k psi as a pressure ceiling they use 62,350psi. In general it is good for another 100-150fps when using the same bullet and powder.

[eightmillimeter]

That's cool I didn't know Ramshot did too. There are a lot of TAC fans that would love hotter data. I think when the surplus glut of 2230C was on the market a few years ago AA got sick of answering emails about 5.56 data so they now offer some hotter loads for people who desire to approach 5.56 performance.